Democratic National Convention -- BORING!... again...

[Alpha Wolf]

Well, apparently the orders have been given-- don't bad-mouth the the shrubbie and be good little middle-of-the-road stiffs who sound just like repugs. I am so sick of this crap! #$$%$@#@#$$$!!! I don't think everyone will follow orders though. I'm hoping someone tells the truth during their time. F*** the censors!

[lancdem]

1. The good stuff comes during prime time

don't worry

[Renew Deal]

3. Exactly

You think they are going to blow their load with city councilmen? All 9 candidates + the Clintons and Gore will take up that slack.

[Swede]

2. Right now is not the time to bash Bush.

This is when all of America gets to know Kerry. Many of the undecided in the middle do not want to hear either side go negative. So if you want Bush out,don't bash him now. There is still 4 months to do that.

[lovedems]

4. I saw clips from Bush sr. repub convention in 1992.

It was a hate fest against democrats (with Pat Buchanan et.al speaking) and Clinton was able to make it backfire. I think along with what you said, they aren't going to feed the republicans fire with "liberal hatefest" like they did the fundraiser in NYC.

I think they are doing the right thing, have a positive message. Look at the garbage coming out of the Bush campaign. It is pure, evil, garbage. They haven't had one positive message except NCLB! The democrats are taking the high road and I don't find anything wrong with that.

[thebigidea]

15. there's a reason republicans are scared of "liberal hatefests"

[Green Mountain Dem]

10. OK.....

Let me bend over again...I'm beginning to like this even if it is a soft prick!! Kinda like trying to stick a marshmallow into a parking meter. But HEY.....been a DEM for 40yrs so I'm used to it now!!

[stevedeshazer]

5. Way too early

Keep your shirt on.

[AP]

6. You don't like all these latinos talking about more and better jobs?

[VolcanoJen]

7. Did you miss Hillary's turn on the interview circuit this afternoon?

Take your cues from her... every other heavy-hitter in the party is going to, I imagine.

She made her points eloquently, and lucidly, and from watching her, I think it's clear that nobody is attempting to discourage dignified debate that will appeal to undecided voters during our convention.

Watch Hillary all week for cues... I think she's got it down, and that's why she's been selected to kick off the Dem pack when it comes to debating Bush's policies.

GD thread about Hillary's interview with Woodruff:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2068414&mesg_id=2068414

[theoceansnerves]

8. it runs until thursday

the good stuff comes later :>

[Walt Starr]

9. It's a brilliant strategy

Let the Repukes go on and on attacking on the media all day, the the Democrats come on offering a postivie vision for the future of the nation.

End Message: The Democrats have a clear plan for the future. All the Republicans have to offer are negative attacks on Democrats.

[Selwynn]

14. That's totally it.

[Sparrow]

17. technically

just being positive doesn't equal a clear plan for the future.
I expect extremely vague language from the convention.

[H2O Man]

29. No, it won't be vague...-

The "positive" in an unclear, non-specific, vague way is the OTHER convention. We're talking about the democrats here.

[noiretextatique]

51. you obviously didn't hear bill clinton's speech last night

nothing "vague" about it.

[lovedems]

18. You nailed it Walt!

I suspect the republicans are hoping for a "Bush hatefest" for more mileage. They are running out of ammo! I heard Hannity the other day recycling the "Kerry threw his medals" garbage! They are desperate!

[izzie]

11. Me too.

I would like them to play to their base but every one said they will go for the people who have not made up mind. I would think it better to make sure the base gets out and votes.When I was a kid these things were fun as we did not know the end .

[Selwynn]

12. It is absolutely the right thing to do.

Americans rapidly get sick of endless criticism and atacks made on opponents. This is why the Bush strategy right now is backfiring. If Dems run a positive, issue oriented, candidate oriented convention - I will be extremely happy.

It takes little to no BRAINS to keep making the tired old and obvious criticisms against the other guy. It takes far more intelligence and character to have a real honest to god plan for what you are for, and what you intend to do, and what you stand for, and why somone should support YOU, not just oppose the other guy.

And if the Republicans come to their convention and do nothing but Bash the Democrats, they are going to turn off lots and lots of people.

[depakid]

20. It's absolutely the wrong thing to do

And frankly, it does take a lot of Brains to connect the dots from Bush AND the Republican Congress to things in ordinary people's lives that affect them. You can't go up on the podium with what looks to me to be a very pollyannaish style message without contrasting it with the outright failures and deceptions of the current administration and expect people to buy that.

Your analysis may indeed the conventional wisdom, but unfortunately, it's been proven wrong, time and time again.

By not taking on Bush and the Republicans, the Dems are once again legitimizing their policies. This is a huge mistake- most Americans- even a majority of people in grad school, if my experience is at all representative, are blithely unaware of just how egregious both their substantive policies and their procedural methods are.

I mean, here's an administration that packs science councils with ignorant religious zealots, deceives Congress on Medicare legislation in order to hand over bilion in tax dollars to PhRMA and nominates judges who've had their law licenses suspended. And the DNC's going to give them a pass?

The Republicans have handed the Dems SO MANY examples of this kind of irresponsible and downright corrupt behavior that any reasonable person -even a so called swing voter- would be appalled- and therefore more receptive to a message for change.

Unfortunately, the Clintonites in the DNC and the Kerry camp don't seem to get it. They prefer to rely on self serving and insular consultants who've got a well documented track record of losing strategies over the past 10 years.

If this continues- and unfortunately, all indications are that it will- it's going to be 1988 all over again. The Dems will remain on the defensive throughout the campaign, despite their "positive" "messages."

Forget taking back the House and Senate.

[emulatorloo]

22. Dont worry - they will criticize Bush's actions and policies

Has already started w Carter on Inside Politics - who basically called Bush a liar w/o saying the L word.

They'll Bash Bush calmly and firmly, not foaming at the mouth.

[sybylla]

24. I agree with you, Pollyanna is not what we need

I'm hoping they can do both; paint a clear picture of the current adminstration, contrast it with Dem ideals and do it all with substance in a way that cannot simply be labeled "bashing" by anyone but pukes and whore press.

Standing up at the podium and calling the chimp names will win no votes. But standing up at the podium and succintly laying the truth before the voters eyes will.

This convention is a prime opportunity to win voters and is no time to make nice.

I heard a poll today that over half of those polled planned to watch the convention at some point. That's a big number considering the boring reputation of the events. Many of these people are watching because they want to be convinced. Not because they want to see the Dems fawn all over themselves.

[depakid]

31. I'm hoping they do both, too

Pick an issue, lay out the Republican stance, have a concrete example or two as to how and why it's important, how it affects the people to whom the issue matters and then tell them what John Kerry and the Democrats believe and why it will make their lives better.

That would make for short powerful, persuasive speeches. It would also put the Republicans on the defensive- and build up John Kerry at the same time.

Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be what's happpening- thus far.

[noiretextatique]

52. i thought bill clinton's speech was right on target

he contrasted republican disasters with his own, and kerry's proposed policies. i thought it was quite effective.

[Selwynn]

33. You and I are not talking about the same issue.

The issue is not about saying nothing negative about the misdeeds of the administration. The issue however, not matter HOW PROGRESSIVE YOU ARE is that if you don't have a fucking plan, and can stand up and say you know what, now that we're done pointing out how terrible the other guys is, here's how great we are - here is why we are better, here is what we are going to DO aside from just complain - this is what we believe.

Those who responded below are correct. The convention should be able honestly acknowledging the failures if this administration, without shifting the primary focus from what they are FOR and establishing a proactive, forward thinking MESSAGE that says, the reason you should vote for Kerry is NOT JUST BECAUSE BUSH IS A FUCKHEAD. The reason you shoud vote for Kerry is because he has clear vision, and proactive thinking, and actually stands FOR something not just AGAINST things.

It has nothing to do with being soft. It has nothing to do with not being honest about Bush's failures. But there is a difference between running the kind of campaign that Bush is running against Kerry RIGHT NOW which will totally backfire for him (and has already show itself to be a failure) and a proactive, forward looking campaign that focuses on what the candidate is FOR and who the candidate IS even more than just bashing on the other guy.

Oh yeah, and as for the "plan" not working. Clinton won in 92. He won in 96. Al Gore won in 2000 and Kerry will win in 2004.

Criticizing Bush is fine, as long as it isn't for its own sake but tied back into points about what John Kerry is that is different from that and what John Kerry is for and about.

[mandyky]

13. Good tactic - I have not heard anyone say a name

They simply say - current administration. Parts have been a tad boring, but overall I enjoy hearing these voices from all over the country.

[Sparkly]

16. Vanilla regarding the Chimp is probably good strategy

And I figure the people behind it know strategy better than I do. The convention could be a great catharsis of rants -- we'd all LOVE it, but it could hurt our chances for victory. The media and RNC would have a field day cherrypicking over it, and this is really about the "moderates."

[seabeyond]

19. with all the media presenting kerry in pissy lite, and repug b.s.

i have seen interviews from basama, ill gov?, hillary, carville and the democratic rep guest, carter and a few other dems able to get out there and they are saying some good stuff. and they arent pulling punches

lordy people, we have it tough having a media that is so against dem, not even pulling for repugs, just simply against dems.

really i could do a lot less with fellow dems going into whines too. it has only begun. who knows what is to come. must we critize every single moment and every single dem

[Greenbeard]

21. At least speak with passion

I hope we see the Dems go after the base and those with like-minded ideologies. No need to bash Bush too much but they better spend some time promoting an honest vision for America. Explained with passion and not read off telepromters. If done correctly, this new vision will in it's very essence make Bush's policies look arrogant, unintelligent, and outdated.

Perhaps.... Come on Al. Tell it like it is.

[blm]

23. David Horowitz.

Is he more to your liking?

[Alpha Wolf]

34. David Horowitz is a trader.

n/t

[ACK]

41. What does he trade?

n/t

[progressivebydesign]

25. What were you expecting? MTV Death Match?

Get real. I think this convention seems incredibly interesting and cool this time. I can't wait to watch it all! The Democratic Party is actually showing some sense lately, and realizing that the GOP has portrayed us as foul-mouthed, angry, anarchists.. (even tho the GOP holds the record for filthy language by candidates). I think the Americans that are SWING voters will be totally turned off by the Conventiapalooza you're suggesting. We NEED swing voters, we NEED the moderates, we NEED the Reagan Democrats. We will totally turn them off with anger and Bush attacks.

We ALL want Bush gone. We ALL could go on for hours about what a fuck-up he is, and how much we dislike him. But.. would we win anyone over who is wavering? No.

I'm frankly tired of the anger. Bill Clinton won because he gave Americans hope. He represented a chance for a happy, healthy country, and people saw that promise in him. Kerry and Edwards are WISE to tap into that energy and enthusiasm. I'm so grateful they realized it... The voters we need are not the angry-young-men, they are the middle-of-the-road people... who don't want to be hammered, but would rather be swept up.

[John_H]

26. Don't worry. They'll put out the Game Cube version soon.

That oughta keep you enthralled for hours.

[kentuck]

27. Give up in the first hour ??

Hey, it's going on for four days! Don't you think you are just a wee bit premature?

[Tight_rope]

28. We don't have to kick down the door...just knock someone will open!

[spanone]

30. You might wanna watch cops or something a bit more exciting.

Let's wait to see what is said. The truth is that this is about the party message. Making Bush* look bad doesn't nesesarily make Kerry look good.

[wyldwolf]

32. what do you mean "again?"

I find it hard to believe you've ever seen a political convention with that statement.

[Alpha Wolf]

35. Again... like 4 years ago.

Actually, since the conventions stopped meaning anything over the last 20 or so years, they're all somewhat boring. I meant it more in the sense of how we hand out muzzles at our convention because we want the podunks and rednecks out in farmland to think we are just like them. All the anger and passion of our base is told to keep a lid on it.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. Guess you missed the speeches last night, huh?

they didn't sound all that "middle of the road". Nobody "Muzzled" Jimmy Carter. He rightly tore Bush a new asshole, if you were paying attention.

I'm not sure what you think you're agitating in favor of, here.

You know, other people might admit they were wrong, at least somewhat, with the central assumption of this thread.
Maybe you can get a job in the Bush administration.

[Alpha Wolf]

38. The Bush admin. would be better off hiring you...

Because letting yourself be taken for granted by the corporate big-wigs who run the DNC and DNL while they keep moving further and further to the right is what has cost us majorities in both Houses, made the last election close enough to be stolen, and will likely lose this election.

They get us, their tried and true liberal base, all frothing at the mouth and rah-rah-rah during the primaries-- and then wham-- out come the muzzles and the taboo words. Ssshhh, what ever we do, don't say our candidate is a liberal. Like being a liberal is BAD THING! Don't they realize how many people, young people, would be stirred off their asses to get out and vote if a candidate proudly and boldly stated, "I am proud to a liberal, and I am proud of my liberal ideals. And you should be too!"

Instead, we will get vanilla and milk-toast. Why, we're not liberal... we're "moderate".

You want to see "middle of the road"? Look at Kerry's campaign. He vows to "stay the course" in Iraq. He vows to take pre-emptive military action against other nations if intelligence deems it necessary. He voted for the war Iraq. He refuses to vote against the Gay Marriage Amendment. He says he "personally" believes life begins at conception. He says he believes in a strong US military.

I don't know about you, but these aren't my ideas of what liberal candidate looks like. Actually, it sounds like corporate repugs in sheeps' clothing.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Again, your agitation seems pointless

and contrived, frankly.

For example, on abortion: If you'd listened to what he said on the issue, Kerry's stance on life beginning at conception in no way minimizes the fact that the man is pro-choice. See, this is the intellectual hurdle that Republicans and Conservatives can't get. You can be personally opposed to abortion, yet still not want the government to get in the business of forcing women, against their wills, to remain pregnant. You can regognize that no one, not big-hair televangelists, not asshat republican lawmakers, not even right-wing maniacs over at freerepublic.com, is more qualified than the woman in whom the pregnancy is taking place to make that particular decision. That's what being "pro-choice" is, but the fetus fascists are never going to get that, because what really has their knickers in a bunch is that a whole bunch of folks are having sex, and it (obviously) isn't them.. (Judging by the 200 or so goons I saw lining the pro-choice march in DC in april, your average pro-lifer hasn't been laid since 1974, and has the haircut to prove it)

Again, it seems to me you didn't listen to the speeches last night, because they were brilliant, and they were inspired, and they didn't pull any punches with regards to Bush. You're the only person claiming to represent the "base" who hasn't been happy with the convention so far. Sorry it isn't doing it for you.

[wyldwolf]

40. Our base? Who are our base?

[Alpha Wolf]

43. Who's are base?!?

All the people filling the Fleet Center. The majority of us here at DU. The liberal base. The progressive base. The whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-call-it-base.

[wyldwolf]

48. yeah, see, I knew you were going to say that

The liberal base. The progressive base. These are not the base of the democratic party.

[Uzybone]

54. all your bases are belong to us

n/t

[Caution]

37. did you actually watch last night?

Between Carter, Rev Alston, Gore and Clinton they stomped all over Bush and his policies, they energized the crowd into a frenzy and they made me feel very happy to be a Democrat again.

[realFedUp]

39. The network hours were best

It much improved from Al Gore on.

[napi21]

42. ink you're missing the point! If you watched last night, you heard

lots of speakers stating how wrong "this administration has been". I think the instructions were "Don't by name, bash Bush", I happen to think this is a very good plan. When Carter said something like this administration continuously making the wrong decisions, and you can be lead when the leaders mislead. It's a slam to the entire administration, which is the way it should be. Shrub didn't do all this bad stuff alone. His entire administration did it. People are much more able to accept driticism when it's against a group and not a specific person. You do want to influence people who think the shrub is a OK guy, but have personnaly been hurt by his policies. To slam himm personally would lose those people!

I must say, if you thought the first day of the Convention was booring, you either fell asleep, or not listening at all.

[MISSDem]

46. AMEN! I thought it was a great night. Exhilirating!

Jimmy Carter was magnificient. As was Al Gore. Wish he had been more like this 4 years ago.

[St. Jarvitude]

44. And you don't think the Repuke Convention will be any less boring?

Flip flop, flippity flop flop, remember September 11th, flip flop, flop flop flippity floppity flop! Flop flop! Flip flip! Flippity flop floppity flip, make America safer, floppity floppity flip flop flip flop flip flop flip flop flop. Lack of experience! Floppity flip flip flop! McCain, McCain, oh lordy lordy, McCain flip flop! Flip! Flop! Flip flip flop! Flippity flop flop floppity flop.

[apnu]

45. Simple solution:

If you think Gore, Carter, Clinton and Clinton weren't good enough (and Mendez and the Reverend)

Well, its a free country, why don't you get out there and mix it up and change some minds? Slam the chimp at every opportunity you get. Do it when you are raking your yard, do it when you go to work, do it while you're at work.

Register a domain and stuff the chimp then whore out the URL to every message board you can get an account on.

The point is, if the rhetoric isn't hot enough for you, then get your fire going and start changing minds.

I've already done something similar by founding an invite only yahoo group for the people I know who have "found their inner liberal" and recent GOP converts.

Your voice is your's... use it.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

50. This thread is irrelevant at this point.

They ripped off their heads last night.

[noiretextatique]

53. i have to agree

and i've been called "wild-eyed" by some, but i thought last night was pretty awesome :thumbsup: