Christianity is not a bonding force in a diverse society.

[The Backlash Cometh]

It just came to me. I was reading the DU thread, "the deterioration is steady and spreading like a cancer" and, as is often with my short-attention span, my thoughts drifted off-tangent and I began to apply the title to our bigger, cultural problem in America: What is bonding us as a nation?

Where we once had a Democratically run government, it was government, and the Constitution which government is based on, which was suppose to be the binding force. But under a conservative/Republican influenced model of government, government would be drowned in a bathtub and it's Christianity that's suppose to lead the way. Well, is there any religion that is more unevenly practiced in the world than Christianity?

In the U.S., the difference between Southern Baptists and modernized Catholics is stark. The difference between orthodox Catholics and modernized Catholics is stark. From my observation, conservatives seem to believe that church rituals determine their status as good citizens, while those who may go to church less often may believe that Christianity really means making every choice as Christ would have done so. That would, of course, result in living a life less fraught with materialism than most Americans are accustom to.

The point is: until conservative Christians resolve the cognitive dissonance issues, (i.e. I'll be nice to those who go to my church, but I can screw everybody else over in my business dealings) is it really a good model to base government? And wouldn't our society become more polarized until these contradictions are discussed openly and dealt with?

[tom_paine]

1. They will Gulag us all before they resolve cognitive dissonance issues

The Germans of 1933 hade similar cognitive dissonance issues.

Thta's what worries me. I remember reading somehwere that 2 preconditions of fascism ae:

1) The nation must have been poliitically free at one time

2) The nation decides to go towards fascism in a "legal" fashion
(of course we all know the Bush-Hitler-Stalin view of breaking the law "If I canb do it or get away with it, that's the law.")

[no_hypocrisy]

3. The * administration stole Hitler's playbook when 9-11 occurred.

February 27, 1933: Reichstag fire (equivalent of the Capitol burning to the ground).
February 28, 1933: The Reichstag passed the Enabling Act, "suspending" (read, removing) civil liberties for all Germans because of the state of emergency.
http://www.weyrich.com/political_issues/reichstag_fire.html

[tom_paine]

11. They've been using those tactics for longer than that

How long has Pillboy/Annthrax/O'Reichley been saying the Jews...errr...liberals are responsible for everything wrong with Germany...errrr...America.

[mhr]

2. Very Good Points - Christianity Can never Be A Binding Force

because of its history and consequently its actual practice.

I just read a very good book that brought this home to me. Look for "Out Of The Flames" by the Goldstones.

It tells the story of a Spanish heretic burned at the stake by John Calvin. In the context of your insight, the book explores the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism and the rancor caused by those espousing a "personal" relationship with God.

Reading the book, made me understand quite clearly that Christianity is forever fractured since each of the "organized" denominations will never agree on fundamentals.

Your insight is excellent and compelling. It is one more reason to fight the fundamentalist Christians tooth and nail over control of this country.

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767908376/qid=1090924354/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/002-1111533-3023207?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[T Town Jake]

5. Actually, The Reformation under Calvin & Luther...

...was the first baby-step away from rigid Theocracy and, combined with the ideological passions that had animated the Magna Carta centuries before, was actually the beginning of The Enlightenment. That led inexorably to our own Constitution, and the notion of a "separation" between a "Church" and a "State" - i.e., politics as a function of secular governance untainted by the pervasive influence of clerics & religious authorities.
You need to read a little more history before you post about such matters in the future, IMHO.

[mhr]

6. You Need To Read The Posts More Thoroughly Before You Criticize

I understand the enlightenment. However, if you had bothered to read the suggested book, you would know that it covered the topics you mentioned.

The book highlights these points and also illustrates the stranglehold of church dogma regardless of stripe.

BTW, the book highlights the life of the man considered to be the founder of Unitarianism.

I suggest that you do not take people's comments out of context just because they don't cover as much ground as you would like.

[T Town Jake]

7. NO, I don't...

...I understood perfectly the words I saw in your post, and responded accordingly. No one took your "comments out of context"; and I could care less what the "suggested book" you mentioned has to offer. I've plowed through enough works on the history of both The Reformation & The Enlightenment to be pretty certain that I know what I'm talking about, as opposed to the sentiments contained in your naive offering...
BTW: screaming "out of context" is a cheap way to debate, in case you didn't know. I responded to your post EXACTLY in the context of which it was offered (or at least typed), but since you didn't like the reply fell-back on that old pedestrian, juvenile stand-by about being quoted "out of context." Nice try, but that bilge doesn't wash with more mature crowds. Just a little helpful advice I'm offering for free, because I'm a nice guy...

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[T Town Jake]

9. And the downside for me is...

? :shrug:

...snicker...

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. I understood what mhr was saying.

You could have added another layer to this discussion without being hostile.

[pinetree]

4. Churchianity is the Problem Not Christianity

The problem is of course that there is Churchianity going on where few people really read the Bible on a daily basis.
Christ was not political as he was approached by Zionists and rejected Zionism. His way was not of the world and he is focused on the Spirit and loving thine enemy as yourself. Hence what people on the news in general are calling CHristianity is not because of course Christ does not support war.

[tooie]

12. you had me....

until the last sentence.

[SarahB]

13. And those who think it should be, ought to check the Constitution

Last time I checked, we weren't living in a Theocracy (although there has been some strange things done in the name of government documents in the middle of the night, so I can't be 100% sure anymore).

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. When you have talking heads like Tucker Carlson (or was it

Hannity?) who made a case that the separation of church and state didn't mean what we've all come to believe it means...then we have a problem. And that's the case. They want to talk this thing to an untimely death, stating that a Liberal court interpreted that passage too stringently.

[undergroundpanther]

15. christ...

Christians,Hitler Christians and Damn Christians...

http://www.unknownnews.net/040727a-cp.html

[seabeyond]

16. you go, ..... excellent

yup