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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 03:31 PM
Original message
Schools: we have met the enemy...
How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A fish.


I'm in my last two weeks of training before school starts, and, like a drumbeat, it's hitting me every day what a joke we're making of education in America via the asinine insistance on more standardized testing. At best, I hope to be able to sneak in a few ongoing experiments in how to actually *think* between all of the lessons on memorization of facts and formulae.

I blame this state of affairs, primarily, on the damned politicians. Everyone gets their share of the blame, but testing is a political answer to an educational problem - like answering "A fish" as the punchline above, except that the punchline makes more sense than answering "More testing" to the question of how to improve education.

Here's the problem. I believe in public education in its totality, which means that I believe in parent and community involvement in the schools. One avenue that that involvement can take - often the only one it does take, unfortunately - is via those same elected representatives who then get to fuck around in how education is implemented.

So how do we proceed from here? Schools need help, yes, but the current emphasis on greater accountability from within the school, with no accountability demanded from without (...and it is us), isn't doing a damned thing to help. I'm reading Howard Gardner's The Disciplined Mind right now (he's the multiple intelligences theory guy), in which he lays out an ideal approach for teaching students how to approach the ideas of truth, goodness and beauty. It's an inspiring book, but I can't really implement anything in it because my hands are tied by NCLB and other accountability measures.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm convinced that the underlying purpose of NCLB
is to make children hate school, just like the factory workers I worked with one summer while I was in grad school. "How can you stand to be in school that long?" they would ask. "You could stay here and earn $2.85 an hour all year round." (This was in 1973, and $2.85 was considered a good wage when you could buy a pair of jeans for $7.00.)

I wonder how many of them are freepers or completely uninvolved in politics today. Probably most of them, and they're probably blaming the "liberals" for that company moving production to Mexico during the 1980s.

Anyway, the more people are turned off to education, the more they think of it as a necessary evil required to get a job, the easier it will be for democracy to wither.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. NCLB is intended
to force vouchers among the public by showing that public schools fail.
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. that is exactly right
you would not believe the CUTS our district has had to make in order to fund NCLB
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I can imagine.
Vouchers definitely play a huge role.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. that's probably true
and as a side benefit, we wind up with kids who not only hate school but can't tell when they're being lied to. It really is all about having that much more pliable a populace.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. Welcome to public education.
One prominent group of educators put a 1/4 page ad in the Boston Globe yesterday, signed by a large group of endorsers; those who helped to pay for it. My name was on the list. It highlighted the crisis brought on by NCLB and high-stakes testing proponents. And did it well enough to attract more than 14,000 hits to the website listed during the day, and for Ken Goodman, the author of the ad, to receive phone calls from a few major media outlets.



http://sosvoice.org/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Wow
Edited on Tue Jul-27-04 04:08 PM by redqueen
Taking out an ad is a great idea. It's sad you have to buy your way into the media to get exposure for such an important issue which everyone claims to care so much about.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. That's true.
We paid, as a group, about $12,000 to catch that kind of attention.

So far, there has been very positive feedback. Not from politicians, but from citizens and other media. We'll see where it goes from here.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. The democratic candidate for the Ohio Senate seat.
Is giving a speech in my town tommorrow. He's going to talk about this. I'm having a hard time finding anyone to come. What am I doing wrong?
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Well,
It can be hard to find teachers on summer break, but if you could get the word to them, they'd show up. As for the general population, you can pick up some information that the media never mentions to spark their interest. Here are a few sources:

http://www.susanohanian.org/

http://www.america-tomorrow.com/bracey/EDDRA/

http://www.fairtest.org/arn/arn.htm

http://sosvoice.org/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. Community outreach
I don't know any other way, than just talking to people... forming clubs and networks, actively seeking out PTA participation, etc.

Communication is really fundamental, since it seems in many cases the parents are unaware of the problems faced and they won't know unless someone tells them.
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teach1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. I agree, however...
I agree with what you say. However, part of the blame must go to the education profession. When I first entered teaching in the eighties, I remember teachers misinterpreting the Whole Language philosophy (the term "Whole Language" has been demonized much like the term "Liberal," but worse) and allowing their elementary classes to become a day-long playtime. The other kindergarten teachers at my first job really got upset at me for teaching my students the names of the letters.

Students were passed from grade to grade with no skills at all. It wasn't uncommon for more than half of my first few fifth grade classes to be reading at or below the third grade level. I'm against wholesale retention, but we have to make sure kids have the skills.

While many of my fellow students training to teach at the college I attended were bright and have gone on to distinguished careers in education, the standards for admission and graduation were too low, and there were some people entering teaching who had no business being in charge of a group of students.

One other problem brought upon the profession by itself: It is too hard to get rid of the bad teachers. Nothing degrades our profession more than allowing the bad ones to stay aboard.

What you're seeing now with NCLB and standardized testing madness is in part the backlash to the problems above. Had we policed ourselves better, the backlash might not have happened or might not have happened with such a severe swing in the other direction.

The educational establishment is not at fault for all the problems in education, but we have to take some of the blame for what's happening now.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'll agree with you
about the whole language debacle and a number of other faults on the part of educators, but I don't know that I'd say that getting rid of bad teachers is that difficult any more.
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teach1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. It's getting easier in some districts...
It depends on the bargaining. There is a reason for making it difficult to fire a teacher: unions correctly saw that much of the discipline and job termination was based on politics and personal vendettas by administrators. It's important to protect academic freedom. I'll admit it's hard to find the correct middle ground.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I think that's true.
Part of why it's suddenly a lot easier here is that unions don't have much power in the south. I'm told that the NEA is making inroads, though, and I plan to join shortly.

There needs to be accountability for actions in the classroom, yes, but we need ongoing protections for the folks who are doing their jobs.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I'd go so far as to say my daughter's kindergarten teacher was 'bad'
My daughter came home talking about Jesus and God. And while I'm spiritual... still...

My daughter started out loving school so much she cried when she was sick because she missed it. However, after an unfortunate incident that all changed and it was a big ordeal to get her to go. I tried to talk to her teacher, to discuss the incident (it was initially portrayed to me as 'minor')... when I approached her, I first talked of my daughter's new aversion to school. Then when I asked whether this incident might have played a part in it, she literally rolled her eyes, and took a confrontational tone, "Don't make a big deal out of that!" and started walking away from me in the middle of a conversation. I was shocked an appalled.

Add to this that she once told me she was happy she and her husband were both teachers because 'they can't be fired'.

:(
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. I saw that, too;
The misfire with whole language. I attribute it to the habitual practice of mandating new, improved methods, starting today, without the training needed to do it correctly. We see this all the time; an instructional method that works (when done correctly), spread out over tens of thousands of classrooms without investing in the kind of training to make it successful. Most of the teachers I knew welcomed "literature-based" reading joyfully, but weren't ever informed about what "whole language" really is. No wonder they dropped the ball.

During that time period, I got students who didn't decode fluently, but who excelled at comprehension of what they heard or were able to decode. And they loved books.

These days I get kids who can call every word on the page, and still, in 5th grade, don't have a clue what it was about. Worse, they expect to be rewarded for that word-calling, and consider "reading" a chore. They don't like it.

There's nothing whole about either of those extremes! :hi:
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. The only thing that I do know is that I still want to smack Trent Lott
everytime that I remember a film snippet of him stating 'education doesn't need more funding...we need more parental involvement, blah, blah, blah. This was when he was still the majority leader. I'm not sure of what else he wants us parents to do.

I pay my kids' school fees every year and I pay them for at least one more child in each of their classrooms. I have helped to pay band fees for kids whose parents truly can't afford them. Last year was an off year for me, but I had 30 volunteer hours logged in at one school BEFORE school even started. I stopped turning in hours at both schools when I reached the 70 hr. mark. My family (nuclear) has built frames for concrete sidewalks and had them poured, built shelves, done building maintenance.....you get the picture.

Yet the schools are underfunded and this whole concept of teaching to the test just pisses me off to no end. There is very little creative, hands-on learning anymore and kids need to be encouraged to think and to explore concepts and ideas. Teachers are stiffled in what they can teach......

ranting again
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. And now you know why my hubby quit teaching
We're just going to have to supplement our kids' public school educations here at home I guess.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. One problem I have encountered
I know this is anecdotal evidence but I think it illustrates one problem with education today.

My youngest son was having problems in Algebra and he asked me for help. He explained he was having trouble understanding the quadratic formula and how it was derived.

I looked into his Algebra book at the section on the quadratic formula then backed up one section fully expecting to see the process for 'completing the square' method for solving equations. Nothing, no completing the square method was there.

I pulled my old Algebra book from the 60's to make sure my memory was intact. Yep, it was there but in the new book the school selected to teach algebra it was not there.

Using my book, I explained completing the square method, helped him solve a few questions and then had him solve the general form into quadratic formula.

My next door neighbors were science and history teachers in the local school system. I took both the old and new books to show them the omission. They were surprised but explained the omission away as maybe this was something the teacher explained in class or something the student was supposed to figure out on their own.

I don't think so, I think the school system just expected the students to memorize the formula without understanding how to derive the formula. Or somebody got a kick-back from to book publisher to use this book.

When I hear of teaching 'directed' evolution (faith based) on the same confidence level as evolution (science based), I have no doubts our education system is failing our children. The experience with algebra confirms my low opinion of our education system.

We are paying good money for what should be the best education system in the world and we are not getting it.

I suspect teachers are really bummed about what they wanted to do when they became teachers, and the reality of the system as it exists today.

We hear the politicians posturing about bad teachers or students, but never hear any criticism of the books used. Its always throw more money at the schools to solve the problems. I doubt anyone knows what its all about. What a circus.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I have to tell you:
I don't use the textbooks exclusively in my class. We use them some; they're one of the tools we have available. But I don'tconsider the text the curriculum. I don't, and never have, allowed a text book publisher to sequence things for me or decide how to teach something. I have standards and frameworks that give me required content. The rest is up to me.

Beginning teachers, until they have a couple of years under their belt, tend to depend heavily on that text. And, of course, many teachers comply with demands that they walk lock-step through the text. Others who would like to do something more or different may not, because it takes more time to step away from the book, and they're already burning the candle at both ends.



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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I understand what you are saying
In this one case, the book could have been better. I do not pretend to know all the problems or even have a solution to this one problem.

It troubling to see so much potential be under utilized. I firmly believe there are solutions though. And these solutions will not be found with a shotgun approach, rather more like one by one, step by step.

Yesterday, my oldest son, his family, missus and myself went for ice cream. As we sat in front of the store eating our ice cream cones, a news team came by and interviewed my daughter-in-law about the 'new' testing for schools going on in Georgia. This must be the NCLB initiative. I am not optimistic that it will solve much.

Its been my experience that problems can only be solved by taking each one, identifying clearly the problem, developing a solution(s), then putting in-place some metric to verify the problem has been solved. This is not glamorous, its a lot of work, but it is the only way to improve.

One thing I am sure about is providing tax money vouchers to be used at private schools will do tremendous damage to our public school system.
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