A few scenes from inside the "Cage"

[Bandit]

[bluestateguy]

1. Protest the governing party

It's a Republican government. They run the show. These people are wasting their time.

[MadHound]

3. Yes, but the Dems are not speaking out against this publicly

Hence they are complicit by their silence. Censorship at any level, by anybody, should be roundly condemned. The Dems are dropping the ball on this one.

[K-W]

5. The dems dont have the ball.

The dems are busy trying to keep an opposition party alive in this country. We need to put them in a position where they could speak out.

[MadHound]

8. Sorry, but the Dems are just as responsible for this travesty

As the 'Pugs are. After all, it was the Clinton administration that started these "free speech" zones. Now they've turned into cages, and all that we are hearing from the Dems is. . . . . . .

[K-W]

14. Dem is a party, not a person.

The people in the party are there because they got elected or got people elected.

Stop looking at this like some conspiricy against you and start looking at it as a political system that will never be ideologically perfect and wasnt designed to be so.

[MadHound]

28. Ooo, thanks for the gratuitous lecture.

I'm not looking for perfect friend, never have been. I've been around long enough and worked enough political campaigns to fully realize that everything is based on give and take, compromise. And yet the Dems have become nothing more than 'Pug lite, completely corrupted by the same corporate lucre that flows through the 'Pug party. So thus we are left with the two party/same corporate master system of government, in this, the Second Gilded Age. Why don't you go find out how the first one ended. A hint for you, it wasn't pretty.

That said, something as basic as free speech should be upheld by both parties, yet here we are, under the two party/one corporate master system of government, and both parties are sadly upholding this affront against the 1st Amendment. Truly a sad state of affairs.

[redqueen]

18. Do you have a source for the claims that the Clinton admin started these?

I've heard that before, but have never seen any confirmation.

[madmom]

21. the free speech zones were started by...

the Clinton administration to protect abortion clinic workers and family planning clinics from protesters not letting them in by blocking the sidewalks and doors. so they started as a good thing leave it ti the repugs to use it against the public.

[MadHound]

34. Here you go,

<http://www.yale.edu/ypq/articles/oct97/oct97c.html>
<http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=U10379>

Clinton started these abominations as a way of controlling the crowds at abortion clinics. One would think that the left would learn by now that any abridgement of our rights, even though it was applied with the best of intentions, would be twisted into something harmful to all.

[redqueen]

Thanks for the links

finally... I've been wondering about that for a while.

Perhaps some Democrats have learned that lesson since then. Unfortunately, it seems most either welcome the buffer from the 'fringe' or are determined to take the 'good' with the bad.

Either way, it's really up to us to rally support to change the law. And IMO three months from the most important election in my life isn't the time to rally AGAINST the party I want to see put in power.

[Pastiche423]

10. What opposition party?

And how, pray tell, are they trying to keep it alive?

[MadHound]

11. LOL! And a rimshot for you friend!

Thanks for the laugh Pastiche, I needed it desperately. :yourock:

[K-W]

12. Fine, lets let the republicans keep total power for four more years

Im sure that will help things alot.

Lets have the democrats take a stand and become ideologically acceptable to the left. Then the republicans can have a one party system and facism can flourish. That will be a great victory for the protestors wont it?

[G_j]

16. my head hurts!

find an excuse to not speak for civil liberties once, you can always find another one later on.

statements like yours scare the shit out of me

[K-W]

22. That isnt what I said at all.

I fully support civil rights, but im not going to sell our nation to conservatives who will absolutely destroy civil rights.

I as an individual support civil rights.
I wish the democratic party could and would fully support them.

But, I understand that if the democratic party doesnt get people in office they have no power whatsoever to do anything. So I accept that at a time where they control absolutely no branch of our government, they must work to get power first, then they can use that power.

Then we can fight to get them to use that power to do the right thing, but the democratic party has to get elected first and supporting left wing protestors against the police is not a good way to get elected.

I hate it so much and I will do everything I can to change it, which is why I am not going to make things worse for the left by punishing democrats for being mainstream even if mainstream is moraly repulsive.

Id rather get civil rights, not die fighting for them.

[G_j]

37. would it hurt so much for Kerry to make a statement

just a sentence or two? I'm not saying he would able to change anything.

[K-W]

58. Unfortunately I think it might.

It would very easily spun that Kerry was supporting liberal protestors against law enforcement.

And unfortunately protestors are generally seen as wing-nuts. And anything that makes it look like he disagrees with law enforcement can be easily used to enforce the already widely held view that democrats are soft on law and order.

Now im not positive it would, but it is a risk, and since he really cant do anything about it, its probably not a risk worth taking.

[G_j]

60. there is not much I can say

except some Americans actually still admire a leader who stands up for what is right.

[Cheswick2.0]

45. How is speaking out against the concentration camp pen

going to hurt the party?

[Pastiche423]

54. While I appreciate you responding to my post

I would be more appreciative if you answered my question.

How are the Dems keeping the "opposition party" alive?

In regards to the razor-wire pens, what are the Dems doing specifically to show they are or their actions are opposite of the repugs?

[K-W]

57. Sure

By definition an opposition party must oppose. I assume youve confused what opposition means in your head. It doesnt mean opposes any and all veipoints. It simply means opposes in elections.

Now the only way to oppose someone in an election is to stand a chance of winning that election.

The only way that the democrats can oppose the way you want them to, that is, present a clear alternative in policy, is if they have already secured thier ability to oppose them in elections.

The conservative movement and republican noise machine have created conditions that for a while in this country made it exceedingly difficult to both oppose republican policy and stand a chance of beating them in elections.

This is of course a tragedy, but it is a condition we must understand. The democrats are in a very touch situation, if they lose ground in this election, they will have very little power in washington and will be facing an even more difficult battle to get back into contention for power. If this were to happen it would become an even more destinct possibility that the conservatives could completely take over the government for a very long time.

We will never achieve progressive policy unless the democrats can stay in competition for power in this country.

[G_j]

6. yep and does anyone think things will change

when Kerry is elected if he won't speak up now?
Do you think he will stand up for people's first amendment rights later?

[K-W]

15. YES, things will change a little big.

Welcome to our government, if you dont like it start a revolution or move. But in the mean time stop making things worse by having unreasonable expectations.

[G_j]

17. love it or leave it?

gee I never heard that before........

[K-W]

26. That isnt what I said, stop dissembling what I say.

Our system is one that at the moment isnt capable of doing what you or I want it to do. It isnt capable of perfect civil rights. If that condition is unacceptable you have two options, change the system or find a country with a better system, or you could, of course stay and deal with the system. If you want to stay, you must realize that the system is far from perfect, but that if we work hard and smart we can make things at least a little better.

We can get Kerry who would be much better than Bush in office. Kerry would not be perfect by a long shot, but under him we would have alot more opportunities to work for a more perfect situation.

[G_j]

43. "if you dont like it start a revolution or move"

didn't take a whole of dissembling to get "love it leave it"

[Cheswick2.0]

49. who are you?

Who are you to speak as the official enforcer for the board? Screw that, my party which I have supported for many many years used to be a hell of a lot better than this and I will complain about it.

[Cheswick2.0]

39. bull

The mayor is a Democrat and the party has a duty to at least say they disaprove.

[donco6]

2. This whole setup looks pathetic to me.

Protesting inside a marked off, fenced-off area? It's sad.

I think it answers the question, "If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound?" The answer is clearly, no.

[Bandit]

4. Our sound may be puny but it is there. A few of us will see and remember

:shrug:

[tom_paine]

7. Not in Totalitarian Nations like Imperial Amerika n/t

[supernova]

9. Their time would be better spent

protesting in NY, afterall this is Chimp's war. Will they be there too?

That cage is ridiculous.

[thebigidea]

13. Well, wake me when Ted Kennedy starts electrocuting testicles.

[blm]

20. *spit take*

Do these people really want to compare their plight at the hands of Homeland Security and the Secret Service (but conveniently blaming Dem party) with the treatment of prisoners at Abu Gharaib?

Sounds incredibly vain and self-centered to me. Maybe a round of perspective in tall glasses for all can be ordered.

[redqueen]

19. It's sad these free speech zones were never a big issue before now

Now all of a sudden the media cares.

[thebigidea]

23. funnily enough, FOX News Channel is leading the charge

... with plenty coverage.

that alone should give one pause.

[redqueen]

30. Well why are people here hammering Dems about it

I understand FOX's motives, but DUers?

[Cheswick2.0]

51. So if fox is covering it, that changes the facts?

Of course they are covering it to make democrats look bad, DUH! But that doesn't change the fact that there is something very wrong with the image of that pen at the democratic convention. I heard the explanation of the city police department and it was bullshit.
She said that in order to get the protesters close to the Fleet center they had to be fenced in for security reasons. What nonsense.

[thebigidea]

53. Sure is something wrong with it.

How is the ACLU case going against it? I heard something about the ACLU challenging them, but that story kind of faded.

Its a given that these things are horrible, but I can't help but be amused at FOX/CNN/MSNBC seemingly giving more coverage to these supposedly "democratic" free speech zones than all of Bush's zones for the past couple years combined.

And how much does the DNC have to do with these zones, anyway?

[apnu]

24. Of course

its the first time the "media" has real footage of "dems" suppressing voice.

Its all BS. Clinton had a great record for listening to opposing voices no matter how wacky they might seem to other people.

The media only cares because they want to pin the cage on the Dems.

Yeah, it's Chimps war, but it's also true that almost all the Dems voted to fund it after been whipped by the chain of "un-american"

All together it's appalling.

I'm still voting for Kerry however.

[Cheswick2.0]

50. It's sad that these free speach zones were a huge problem for

all of us untill they appeared at our convention and suddenly "hey no problem."

Sad and pathetic.... and you are a DK supporter? I am finding that very hard to believe.

[thebigidea]

52. its more like "hey how funny that the 'liberal media' suddenly cares"

Free speech zones are utterly ridiculous. But so are comparisons to the civil rights movement.

[Alpha Wolf]

25. Oh my gosh!!

It's worse than I thought. Some "Big Tent", huh? Your not in the script, so you're out in the cage.

And what's the deal with those red-shirted "guards" for the DNC? Check out the creepy boots one of them is wearing. Are these "Redshirts". Scarey shit. I would swear this pics were from a Repug convention. Free Speech Zone? 1984 anybody?

[umtalal]

27. SHAME ON THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Does this remind one of the civil rights movement? Where are you Dr. King when we need you? Shame, shame, shame!!!

[thebigidea]

29. yes, its exactly like the civil rights movement

Just the other day I saw an anarchist attacked by dogs. The day before that, a really stubborn Nader-guy was dragged from the back of a pickup for several miles.

They even have seperate water fountains for Greens!

I have a dream... that one day I'll be able to make a completely outlandish analogy.

[redqueen]

31. You so rock

:toast:

[umtalal]

repeat post. I guess I was pissed.

[umtalal]

32. I thought we were better than that.

Too bad you think it is funny to make protest. Meanwhile the real goons are showing their dick and fuckhead signs right on the televsion screen.

[thebigidea]

35. Sadly, I don't include myself in any of this "we" business

I speak for myself only... and last time I checked with myself, he thought protesting the DNC during the Bush/Cheney regime and drawing comparisons to the civil rights movement was absolutely, incredibly, gutbustingly hysterical.

[umtalal]

36. Fine, then do not allow the protest. Does that make you feel better?

[thebigidea]

38. What do I have to do with allowing protests? Nobody consulted me.

I would've nixed the barbed wire... creepy boots seem ok for DNC guards, they can keep the creepy boots.

At the first sign of any kind of treatment that would deserve comparisons to the civil rights movement, I'd be just as outraged as you.

When a guy playing acoustic songs about Kerry's flipflopping gets lynched, I'll get outraged.

When someone wearing more black than me gets terrorized with burning crosses, I'll get outraged.

When a LaRouchie gets offed for whistling at a non-LaRouchie woman, I'll get outraged.

Until then, I'm going to find it hilarious.

[umtalal]

40. I am laughing too. n/t

[umtalal]

41. I am laughing too. n/t

[thebigidea]

44. But inside, I'm crying.

There's nothing as sad... as the tears of a clown.

Cue sappy music.

[umtalal]

46. consider yourself ignored.

[thebigidea]

48. Oh no! Whatever will I tell the children?

I suppose next you'll want to put my opinions in a steel cage with razor wire so they don't disturb you. Oh, the humanity!

Attaca! Attaca! Attaca!

[Selwynn]

33. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA that just made my day!

[supernova]

47. LMAO!!

That was great, thebigidea! :D I so needed that laugh.

[G_j]

55. sorry but I find that offensive rather than funny

I suppose you actually would find it funny if an "anarchist" was attacked by dogs.

[thebigidea]

56. No, I'd find it an outrage and I'd be the first to denounce it

But feel free to act smug about it anyway - I find your smugness offensive, actually. Very offensive. I suppose if a "filmmaker" was attacked by dogs, you'd find it funny.

I'm going to go write an angry letter to myself to protest this outrage.

[G_j]

59. smug?

I said I found it offensive. I guess your joke just went over my head.
Perhaps you have no idea that there have been young people who 'dress differently' some who might think of themselves as anarchists, beaten and brutalized by police. That is what I didn't think was funny. If you want to think that is smug so be it.

[thebigidea]

61. Yeah, well I find your offense offensive. Its an insult to all offenses.

If you're in the mood to get offended, surely you can muster up some offense for comparing this to the civil rights movement.

There's plenty of offense to go around!

[Snoggera]

42. I would love to see

some prominent dems setting foot in the cage.