Poor Will Marshall, admits to "Dean-induced depression." Poor guy.

[madfloridian]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5529546/
SNIP..."Dean also indulged in some bashing of the news media and praised Teresa Heinz Kerry for telling an editor Sunday night to “shove it,” after he questioned her about using the phrase “un-American” to describe some modern campaigning.

“Kerry is going to win the election because of his wife — she’s fantastic! Isn’t she great?” Dean exulted.

SNIP.."Some dreaded Dean
Such rhetoric is one reason why nine months ago influential Democrats inside the Beltway dreaded the idea of Dean winning the nomination.

Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute and an advocate of pragmatic centrism, told MSNBC.com Tuesday, “I was going around last fall and winter before Iowa in a state of Dean-induced depression.”

“Dean had clearly tapped into a deep vein of antipathy and anger toward Bush and was skillful in turning that against his fellow Democrats as well,” Marshall recalled. “And he shot up in the polls by a skillful conflation of anti-Bush and anti-war sentiment.”

Take some Prozac, Will Marshall, and quit your whining. Whine, whine, whine.

[madfloridian]

1. Whoa, is Will Marshall saying Kerry was preferred?

SNIP......"There was almost a collective decision in the Democratic mind to say, ‘OK, this guy (Kerry) will do,’” Marshall said. “I’m not saying that everybody fell in love with Kerry, but they looked at him and said, ‘He can do it; he is the most plausible in this field, certainly a more plausible challenger to George Bush than Howard Dean.’ Kerry was the beneficiary of a kind of sober decision by tens of thousands of Democratic activists that the most important imperative was to beat George Bush, not to indulge in votes that made you feel good or stoked your feelings of anger.”END SNIP

I despise Will Marshall and everything neocon he stands for. He has lied about Dean constantly. Everytime Dean appears in public again, articles appear at the ndol putting him down all over again.

I despise Will Marshall, and I think he should stop pushing Kerry toward imperialism. I think he stop calling Kerry a "Blair Democrat."

When I see Dean getting outspoken again, I just remember how hungry we were for someone to say "what are all our Democrats doing sounding just like George Bush."

[wyldwolf]

3. Yeah, Kerry was preferred - which is why he gets the nomination

[NashVegas]

52. Fine Then, Have a Brokered Convention

Have your smoke-filled rooms, and let's cut the pretense of letting the ordinary Joes and Joans decide who the candidate will be. Because frankly, what the DNC/DLC etc. did to Dean and his supporters last winter was nothing short of despicable.

[blm]

10. I was wondering back in July2002 why Dems were backing Bush over Kerry

when Kerry was ripping Bush over his failed strategy in Afghanistan that allowed Bin Laden and most of Al Qaeda to escape. I clearly remeber certain MTP appearances by some Dems who sided with Bush as commander-in-chief and refused to back up Kerry who was one of the only Democrats pounding on Bush at that time.

[JohnKleeb]

83. yep

Very few dems have been critical of Afghanstan as well.

[wyldwolf]

2. speaking of whining... poor ....

...poor what? Poor Dean supporters? Nah... most are solidly behind Kerry and don't believe his wife will be the reason he wins.

Poor madfloridian? Yeah... Poor madfloridian. Can't seem to get over that Dean lost. Voters picked someone else over him (actually picked TWO over him if you include Edwards...), and just can't get over her fixation with the DLC - insulting to a very large portion of Democratic Underground.

[Blue-Jay]

4. And, away we go!

[madfloridian]

5. Will Marshall, poor Will. He said Dean depressed him.

Dean was great about Teresa, and he really stuck it to the media. You are so determined that I am hateful, that anything goes.

Go for it.

Will admitted it he had Dean-induced depression. He is whining.

[wyldwolf]

6. madfloridian, poor madfloridian - Dean lost - he was rejected by...

..the voters in favor of TWO DLC democrats.

Sorry.

You keep harping on the DLC. You are whining.

[AP]

11. Edwards is not a DLC democrat. The DLC doesn't like him very much at all.

And if Kerry picked him as his VP, then I'm going to guess that Kerry isn't int the thrall of the DLC either.

[JohnKleeb]

15. the DLC sweetheart of the primaries was Joe Lieberman

[wyldwolf]

16. Edwards is very much DLC

http://www.ndol.org/new_dem_dir.cfm

type in "Edwards"

Sorry! :)

[AP]

19. Sorry, but the press went over this dozens of times. DLC don't like JRE...

...because of his trade votes. He hasn't been invited to either of the last two DLC summer meetings (and Dean gave a speech at the last one, IIRC!).

By the way, type in Dean's name when he was governor, and you would have seen it on the list too.

It's one thing to be a member, but it's quite another to do their bidding and get their love. Edwards did neither of those two things.

[wyldwolf]

21. Sorry - I don't recall such "press" saying the DLC doesn't like Edwards

...you'll have to provide a link or two for that.

Edwards is a current DLC member...

it's quite another to do their bidding and get their love. Edwards did neither of those two things.

IWR - a vote he still defends.

[AP]

31. David Broder, Washington Post, June 8, 2003.

Though his parents revered Franklin D. Roosevelt, the New Deal is too far in the past to guide his steps as it did LBJ's. At the same time, the Democratic Leadership Council <1>, which attracted Clinton, Gore and many other southern Democrats, has never provided a home for Edwards. The DLC makes liberal trade policy a litmus test, and Edwards, like most North Carolina politicians, is sensitive to the job losses his state has suffered to imports.

http://www.eurolegal.org/greendogdem/20040707gdd.htm

[AP]

36. Hello?

Can you find anything indicating that the DLC likes Edwards or that he does ANYTHING to pad corporate profits on behalf of the DLC?

Do you not believe David Broder?

[wyldwolf]

40. Should I believe David Broder?

from an editorial that has no substantive evidence from the DLC itself?

[AP]

46. Broder knows what he's talking about and you don't...

...if you think that just having a membership card proves that you do the DLC's bidding.

Dean was a member of the DLC too, you know.

Many many politicans are members. They're not selective about who joins.

Again, find me one example of the DLC picking up Edwards's flag EVER.

I have heard them attack some dems and laud others. They've never lauded Edwards, and gave him the cold shoulder all through the primaries, even when it must have been clear to many that he was going to end up on the ticket and probably be president some day.

Edwards was not invited to present at either of their last two summer events, even though just about every other candidate INCLUDING DEAN gave a presentation.

So, do you have something more than that membership card, or not?

[wyldwolf]

75. Actually I do know what I'm talking about

...if you think that just having a membership card proves that you do the DLC's bidding.

That wasn't the discussion. The discussion was whether Edwards is a DLC democrat. He clearly is. Someone along the way you've tried to refocus the discussion into "doing the DLC's bidding."

But speaking of which, what IS the DLC's bidding?

[AP]

78. Then why'd you keep posting after post 31? Seems like you're backing down

now that you realize you can't support what you were implying.

I never disputed that he had a membership card. That clearly wasn't the limit of the discussion.

And for the 10th time: "easy profits for corporations" is the DLC's bidding. What did you think it was?

[wyldwolf]

80. Backing down from what?

Show me where I've backed down from anything?

And for the 10th time: "easy profits for corporations" is the DLC's bidding. What did you think it was?

Links to the first 9 times you said it? I missed them.

[AP]

87. From smearing Kerry and Edwards as DLC'ers.

Clearly, it meant something significant to you at first. But now that you can't find anything more than membership cards, it turns out that you meant much less.

If this was only ever about whether they were members, then I'll concede that they have membership cards, and I won't post again to this thread.

But if you're going to try to smear them, I will continue asking you (1) why you think the DLC is bad, and (2) what Kerry and Edwards have ever done to serve those bad interests.

[wyldwolf]

92. Smearing? Bwahahahaha! They ARE DLC'ers!

Gee, I remember when it became clear Kerry would be the demnom and the fringe left went nuts with "DLC witch" cries.

But now he isn't? Bwahahaha!

I've said from the start that they are and the NDOL site clearly shows as much.

You've decided on one issue as the defining DLC issue.

But the stated positions of Kerry and Edwards are clearly DLC.

Maybe not 100%, but who agrees 100% on anything?

[AP]

93. And what does that mean to you? Why did this go past post 31 if that's all

you wanted to say.

And their stated positions are not DLC -- Broder says (and we all know) Edwards has a position on trade that the DLC doesn't like.

[wyldwolf]

101. So Broder SAYS Edwards has a position on trade the DLC doesn't like...

..so what?

Edward is in line with the DLC on National Defense & Homeland Security, Foreign Policy, Economic & Fiscal Policy, Healthcare, education, and so on.

Trade is not the DLC's main issue. THAT is something you have dreamed up.

[AP]

103. Have they fought for anything harder than they fought for NAFTA?

That's how I remember them.

[wyldwolf]

112. Perhaps that issue is near and dear to your heart

... NAFTA was a very popular measure at the time. There wasn't a big fight for it. But still isn't indicative of the DLC's preference of trade over other issues.

As for NAFTA, Kerry voted for it.
Dean supported it.

[AP]

95. I can't believe a long-time DU'er is pretending that calling someone DLC

means nothing more than saying someone has a DLC membership card.

This is the stupidest discussion I've had on DU in a long time.

[wyldwolf]

98. yeah...

You keep dreaming.

By his stances on National Defense, Homeland Security (which Edward helped write), Foreign policy, and Economic & Fiscal Policy, Edwards is a DLC democrat.

[AP]

100. And his position on trade is problem for the DLC.

And why wouldn't they invite him to present at the last two DLC meetings?

[wyldwolf]

102. Ok?

But not his positions on:

National Defense & Homeland Security

Foreign Policy

Economic & Fiscal Policy

The New Economy

Technology & Innovation

Energy & Environment

Health Care

Education

[JohnKleeb]

25. they remove members I believe as they leave office

The DLC leadership I dont think liked either Kerry or Edwards, as I said, the DLC leadership really wanted Lieberman.

[wyldwolf]

28. Links on this?

I think some people try to justify their allegiance to DLC candidates by saying such.

[JohnKleeb]

32. Ive read it in magazines that the moderate wing of hte party

wanted Lieb, people act like Kerry and Edwards are the epitmoe of the DLC. I dont agree with the DLC on everything but I do realize that they are a large group with a variety of members so I like some members, dislike others. I believe I read somewhere that the DLC doesnt have members who arent in office anymore online somewhere sorry.

[wyldwolf]

47. Links on this?

[AP]

33. Can you find a single person on that list who isn't in an elected office?

Obvioulsy, for the people who run it, it's a full time job. But all the members are elected officials -- at least that's my understanding, but it's easy enough for you to look it up.

[JohnKleeb]

44. I got the link for members

http://www.ndol.org/new_dem_dir.cfm
I am sure we'll find some people we do and dont like on there. There are some DLC dems I like and some I dont.

[wyldwolf]

48. what are you talking about?

[AP]

50. Kleeb knows what I'm talking about. Look at the membership list.

Are they elected officials or not?

[wyldwolf]

55. I have looked at the membership list. I posted the link!

In post 19, Kleeb said:

The DLC leadership I dont think liked either Kerry or Edwards, as I said, the DLC leadership really wanted Lieberman.

In post 28, I asked for a link.

In post 33, in response, you said:

Can you find a single person on that list who isn't in an elected office?

So... what?

[JohnKleeb]

58. oh I see why youre confused

No I meant that the DLC leadership seemed to support Lieberman and I had read that some where. I knwo what you mean now, listen he thought you were questioning me because of the members list, I get what youre getting at now, I odnt have a link, there are some in the DLC who like Kerry and Edwards, what I meant was, the DLC favored candiate early on was Joe Lieberman not John Kerry or John Edwards despite both men being members as well.

[AP]

59. I thought your comment was about...

...not being a member if you're not elected.

I see what you're asking now, and I just have to say, the burden's on you to prove DLC whoring by these candidates. The membership card doesn't cut it.

If you're going to say they're DLC-whores, prove that they've whored for the DLC.

I think that Dean proves that membership alone doesn't buy you special treatment from the DLC.

The ball's in your court.

[JohnKleeb]

62. yeah I see that now

I dont think wolf is gonna call them DLC whores AP, he's a supporter of the DLC's goals and aims, some of which I disagree with fully but I dont hold every member of the DLC in contempt, hell my governor is in the DLC, and I think he will make a great senator some day.

[wyldwolf]

72. I'm not saying they're DLC whores because I'm DLC and...

... I reject the term as a personal attack.

But they are DLC - as their website clearly shows.

[AP]

76. And I'm saying the DLC doesn't like Edwards (via Broder) and I'm saying

there's no evidence that they like him at all.

I'll agree that he has a membership card. But when you say he's "DLC" obviously the connation is that he does their bidding. In that sense, he's clearly NOT DLC.

[wyldwolf]

81. But I've never said or implied they like Edwards...

I've said,

1. Edwards is a DLC democrat
2. No evidence from the DLC that they dislike Edwards.

[AP]

84. Why then is the DLC so objectionable to you? After all, they only care ...

...about keeping America safe, right?

[wyldwolf]

86. They're not objectionable to me. Where did you get that idea?

[AP]

89. So you like the DLC?

Because you think that all they care about is national defense.

Ok.

[wyldwolf]

94. Now where did I say...

I like the DLC because I think that all they care about is national defense?

Look at my sig pic. And I clearly said above I was DLC.

[AP]

97. Well therein lies the problem. You WANT to embrace Kerry and Edwards as

DLC, and I'm not a big fan of the DLC. I'm glad that Edwards's ties to the DLC go no farther than a membership card.

Well, there you have it.

Perhaps if the sig lines weren't turned off, I could have just stayed away from this discussion altogether.

I'm checking out now.

[wyldwolf]

104. Edwards... In line with the DLC on...

National Defense & Homeland Security

Foreign Policy

Economic & Fiscal Policy

The New Economy

Technology & Innovation

Energy & Environment

Health Care

Education

[AP]

106. Then you think they would have gone out of their way to say something nice

about him during the primaries.

Instead, they ignored him.

[wyldwolf]

111. So?

[AP]

77. And if that's all your saying, why'd you keep posting after post 31?

You disputed that it was ever said in the press that the DLC didn't like him.

If your only point was that he had a membership card, then that shouldn't have mattered to you.

[wyldwolf]

85. No I didn't ...

You said the press went over it dozens of times.

You produced ONE editorial.

hardly a blistering indictment.

[AP]

90. Yet you produce NOTHING.

I got you beat 1-0.

[wyldwolf]

96. I don't HAVE to produce anything

You made a charge that the press said the DLC didn't like Edwards "dozens of times."

You produced ONE editorial.

The only charge I made was that Edward is DLC dem, clearly demonstrated by NDOL.org

Tell me a statement of mine that requires any further source?

[AP]

99. I googled. That's what I found. It confirmed my impression.

I thought you were smearing them as DLC. Now I see you're wanting to embrace them as DLC.

Please embrace them, if that's what you want to believe. Please believe Broder's head is up his ass.

[wyldwolf]

105. Will do!

National Defense & Homeland Security

Foreign Policy

Economic & Fiscal Policy

Trade & Global Markets

The New Economy

Technology & Innovation

Energy & Environment

Health Care

Education

[JohnKleeb]

53. wolf man do a search on say Bill Clinton in that link I gave you

He wont be listed because hes no longer in elected office. If you had done that same search on Dean say in 2001, Dean would have been listed as a member becaue he was in the DLC.

[wyldwolf]

56. I think you and AP need to go back and read what we've said

When it was said Edwards was not DLC, I posted the membership link showing he was.

It never entered into the discussion about whether only elected officials were listed or not. I KNOW that!

[AP]

61. Membership alone doesn't make one "DLC" as Dean proves. The burden is

on you to prove that they're DLC whores, and the membership list doesn't cut it.

Look at what Broder said about Edwards. Is your retort to Broder, "but but but the membership list..."

If it is, that's not enough.

So where's your evidence?

[wyldwolf]

71. Yes it does

the DLC is an organization. To be a part of that organization, you have to be a member. NDOL.org shows Edwards as a member. He is DLC. Arguing that he isn't is desperate.

I saw what Broder wrote about Edwards in an editorial.

Why have you not shown any source where the DLC actually speaks unkindly of him?

[AP]

74. Then explain Dean and explain what Broder said about DLC not liking JRE

because he doesn't follow them on their biggest issue: free trade (and easy corporate profits).

How can a guy who takes no PAC money be of any help to the DLC?

The DLC doesn't speak of Edwards at all. They ignore him.

Where's your evidence that they even like him?

The burden is yours to prove.

(And what does it matter if Broder says the DLC doesn't like Edwards in an Editorial? He also said it on NPR. Does that make it not true? Find the correction in the paper or on NPR if he was wrong.)

[wyldwolf]

79. Free trade is the DLC's biggest issue?

Their website show National Defense as their biggest issue. Where do you get the free trade is?

How can a guy who takes no PAC money be of any help to the DLC?

Show me where that is prerequiste to being DLC?

The DLC doesn't speak of Edwards at all. They ignore him. Where's your evidence that they even like him?

I have not stated anywhere that they like him. I've merely stated there is no evidence from the DLC that they DON'T like him.

(And what does it matter if Broder says the DLC doesn't like Edwards in an Editorial? He also said it on NPR. Does that make it not true? Find the correction in the paper or on NPR if he was wrong.)

That is a silly line of reasoning. An editorial - and a commentary on NPR - is based on someone's opinion. Broder provided no evidence save his observations but that is merely his perception.

[AP]

82. Corporate profits. Look who gives them all their money. Corporations.

If they're saying national defense on their web site, it's because they know how unseemly it would be to say "we care most about corporate profits."

Read between the lines.

Your fine line of Editorial vs News is one of the stupidest things I've read today.

[wyldwolf]

88. Read between the lines?

OK, the DLC's main issue is about corporate profits because AP says so... or maybe he asked his magic 8 ball...

[AP]

91. Why do you think they like Lieberman so much?

[wyldwolf]

107. I couldn't care less!

[madfloridian]

41. Yes, he is, so was Dean when he was governor. Most are members.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=250061&kaid=103&subid=111

You can do a search at this site. Only includes office-holders.

That is why the DLC attacks against Dean are so vicious. He was one of them who criticized.

[AP]

54. Read the Broder article, and tell me: when has the DLC ever said

anything nice about him, and when has he ever put DLC interests above the interests of the citizens of NC?

[wyldwolf]

57. When have they ever said anything BAD about him?

[AP]

67. Uh, during the primaries, they gave him the cold shoulder...

and this is a guy who was very likely going to end up on the ticket and be president one day, and they could telll that, because he takes no PAC money, and put's easy corporate profits pretty low on his list, there was nothing to gain with him.

You'd think they'd at least want to curry favor with a future president.

He was on their pay no mind list while the played up Lieberman, remembered Gore fondly, and fought it out with Dean.

[wyldwolf]

69. Again, you want us to take your word for it... I didn't notice this...

[AP]

70. The burden's on you to prove your claim, and you can't just keep saying

you don't believe me, or don't believe Broder.

Where in the world is your evidence that Edwards or Kerry is, in their hearts, DLC'ers or that the DLC even likes them or expects them to do their bidding?

They lauded Leib, and they hated on Dean -- a guy who was a member of the DLC for as long as he qualified to be a member (thus proving the membership card isn't worth shit to the DLC -- it's "what have you done for easy corporate profits lately" with the DLC).

[wyldwolf]

108. What claim did I make?

Edwards is DLC. NDOL, the official website of the DLC, confirms it.

Where in the world is your evidence that Edwards or Kerry is, in their hearts, DLC'ers or that the DLC even likes them or expects them to do their bidding?

I've made no statements to that effect.

You, on the other hand, have provide ZERO evidence the DLC's main concern in corporate profits.

I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

[madfloridian]

12. I will not respond to this kind of stuff anymore.

It is demeaning to both of us.

[wyldwolf]

17. ok!

[w4rma]

14. Will Marshall is a PNAC signatory and hardcore supporter of Bush's war.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraq-20030328.htm

[legin]

22. DLC suck

signatories to PNAC letters, basically everything I have been fighting against for the last 2 and half years.

I know it's politics but you got to have some principles.

Just to fill you in, being british I don't actually have any alligance to any party whatsoever, I just want that neo-fascist scum bush* dumped.

When the Democratic Party are in power, if they behave equally as badly, ie DLC, then I and probably a lot of people around the world will be working equally as hard to dump Kerry.

[wyldwolf]

30. Your choice

...

[JanMichael]

39. Always respond with a mild personal attack, how very Liberal.

:-)

[wyldwolf]

51. how very liberal...

.. to continuously attack a very large portion of the DU population.

[madfloridian]

7. Will Marshall is a neocon who is fixated on Dean as an enemy.

You can criticize me all you want, but he is not good for Kerry.

We donate to Kerry, we are voting for him. If I want to say I don't like Will Marshall, I am free to say so.

[wyldwolf]

9. He must be good for Kerry - Kerry is winning

..while you are whining.

[thebigidea]

34. I'd say Dean is contributing more to Kerry's campaign than Marshall

Or did I miss all the rousing endorsements and speeches Marshall gave for Kerry?

[wyldwolf]

37. That may be so but that isn't the point of the discussion

[thebigidea]

42. Sorry, I wouldn't want to come between you and a grudge.

Heaven forbid a PNACer get criticized.

[AntiCoup2K4]

8. Give me 5 minutes alone with this FUCKING TRAITOR.

What is this PNAC sellout doing in the Democratic party, let alone playing a prominent role in Kerry's campaign?

I want this fucker in one of two places:

1) Burning in Hell (prefferable)

2) Life in prison

Nothing else is acceptable for someone who has done so much to DESTROY democracy in this country :grr:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. Right.... your hero calls the 94 theft of congress a "liberation"......

...and joins PNAC, but *I'm* a fascist :eyes:

[wyldwolf]

24. my hero?

Who? Jumping to conclusions #1.

I didn't call you a fascist. I said you sounded like one. Jumping to conclusions #2.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. What are you preaching tolerance of other viewpoints or something?

What a radical idea.

[AntiCoup2K4]

63. Treason against the United States of America isn't a "viewpoint"

It's a capital crime. And one that Marshall is guilty of, along with the rest of the PNAC shitbags.

[wyldwolf]

65. Ann Coulter? Is that you?

[AntiCoup2K4]

73. No, I have blonde hair and a penis, but I eat three meals a day

...and it shows.

The difference is that the "treason" Anndrew speaks about is fictional. The treason of PNAC most definitely is not. Agents of a foreign power have taken over the US government, and Marshall is their willing accomplice.

[wyldwolf]

110. Oh, your gender is what seperates you from her

Everything else sounds the same.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

109. Your vision of tolerance and mine are clearly at odds.

Good thing you are powerless.

[ulysses]

18. again and again,

fuck Will Marshall. God forbid that we ever tap into anything resembling anger toward our enemies.

[ulysses]

23. hey, wyldwolf.

Should we never, ever tap into anything resembling popular anger toward the GOP? Is that too dangerous?

[wyldwolf]

26. You can be angry at whoever you want

[ulysses]

29. care to actually answer the question?

[wyldwolf]

35. I did answer the question

You have a knack of claiming questions aren't answered when you don't like the answer.


ever tap into anything resembling popular anger toward the GOP? Is that too dangerous?

Tap into anything resembling popular anger toward the GOP or toward anything you'd like.

Free country.

But from my viewpoint, there is already a popular anger toward the GOP.

[ulysses]

49. selective editing is fun, no?

Here's my full question:

Should we never, ever tap into anything resembling popular anger toward the GOP? Is that too dangerous?

"We" being the party, not just me. Perhaps I should focus a little. Should the Democratic Party never, ever tap into popular anger against the GOP as an electoral tactic?

[wyldwolf]

64. You've used the term "selective editing" before, too. Tired.

So when I copied and pasted you question in, I cut off the first couple of words.

The meaning is still the same - as my answer showed.

yes, YOU can tap into and be angry at anything you want. As I said. And like I also said there is already popular anger against the GOP - meaning as a party.

Should the Democratic Party never, ever tap into popular anger against the GOP as an electoral tactic?

Of course, and we have.

[ulysses]

113. ok, then we'll return to the question

I asked you the other night, paraphrased - you seem to agree with Will Marshall, so what is it about Dean that is so bothersome, if not the willingness to tap that anger?

[Bombtrack]

38. That's your new talking point. If you don't like Dean, your a whiner

But Apparently what you're doing with these posts, is nothing of the sort

[madfloridian]

43. It is called fair play and equal time.

Sorry. Maybe "everyone" should cease using the word against fellow Democrats. I will if they will.

[wyldwolf]

68. you started this, did you not?

I never see moderate and/or DLC dems on DU purposely flame other democrats.

[wyldwolf]

45. Exactly

As in the primaries, they throw around insults against other candidates and viewpoints but as soon as Dean is criticized, they take on a persecution complex.

[Blue-Jay]

66. It's not a question of not liking Dean, Bombtrack.

I realize it must seem that way to a few people at times (madfloridian, I'm looking in your direction), but that's not the case at all. I love Howard Dean and I love the energy that he brought to the party. I love that he inspired people to get involved. I love that he's still fighting for what he believes in. For what we ALL believe in....

That said, he's not "the guy". I don't love the daily Dean is God/I'll hold my nose when I vote/Stop bashing us/The DLC sabotaged us/Blah blah blah threads. Dr Dean has thrown his support to John Kerry. Many of his supporters are somehow unable to do the same, and it's tiresome to say the least.

Why is it that you don't see the Clarkies and the Ku-citizens (myself included) and the Geppies (all BOTH of them - haha) and the rest continue to bitch about the primaries? The choice has been made, and we need to unite against the common enemy.

I love Howard Dean too, but he's not "the guy". That's all.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

60. I can't do this again, I just can't

as a Deaniac, I can't go there, to that place of intense disappointment, disbelief and anger.

I have to stay focused right now. Kerry. Gotta stay focused. Not going to go there anytime soon.