Who here considers themselves an idealist to the point

[Snoggera]

that they would continually attempt to get their particular beliefs across to the detriment of the whole?

I am an idealist, but a realist.

Life is not simple.

I have a problem reading posts from those that only denigrate, degradate and attempt to deny victory because some small part of their personal platform isn't adequately addressed.

I am not going to read any more bullshit posts. (crap - I won't be reading my own)

[ashling]

1. That is not idealism

I am a practical (I hope) idealist, and will pursue the causes in which I believe, but not to the detriment of the whole. At that point you become like Mr. Nadir.

[K-W]

2. Alot of people think Nader is a true idealist,

and you and I are sellouts. Alot of people on this forum seem to think that.

[ashling]

4. They are, in a word

WRONG!

I refer you to a speech given by Doris "Grannt D" Haddock, which was posted here earlier, titled "A Challenge to the Greens". It can be found on her website at www.Grannyd.com

In it she tells progressives:

we must deal with that part of ourselves that is the selfish progressive, capable of doing more harm than good in coming months.

We are the selfish progressives when we think it is all about us. We require the perfect candidate who reflects our views precisely. If we cannot have such a candidate, we may not vote, or we may vote for someone who cannot win, just to show our support for our precious opinions. This grandstanding is more important to us than the lives of all the people who will die and be exploited if a fascist warmonger is elected because of our selfish narcissism.

***

It is time for the factions of the left to understand that, unless they have a practical strategy for early victory, they stand in the way of justice, of environmental protection, and of peace if they continue to split the progressive vote.

***

Politics is not about posturing, but about winning and losing and representing the interests of millions of people. When you take up the sword of politics, you play to win on behalf of your people, not to look pretty in your uniform.

on edit: emphasis added - my own

[JohnKleeb]

3. I am an idealist/yellow dog dem

We'll never have our own personal platform, heh I would love as an idealist to have a platform plank that sympathies with Irish Republicans desire to be united with the Irish Republic or a plank that honors labor.