Problems I see in Deans Resume

[jfkennedy]

After all is said and done, Dean is selling himself to the public, and so he has a resume, and in his resume I see some problems that looks like I would never want to vote for him.

When I first seen Dean I was first to jump on the bandwagon in support of Dean for his antiwar position. Hell millions of people went to the demos for the Iraq war, I did not go to any but because I am a pacifist, I was for any movement for peace rather then war.

And with the groundswell of support he became number one on the polls for Democrats. Great, I thought but then I looked at the other polls with him running against Bush, with his current platform in his resume.

Such as he is a progressive and a conservative Democrat, what I define as a Republican Democrat in the tradition of Clinton and the DLC.

So, I still gave Dean the benefit of the doubt perhaps he could pull it off and be a conservative democrat that appeals to Republicans and a progressive, or liberal.

But one thing that really made me into a Dean critic is his attitude.

That fake smile that reminds me of a used car salesmen. Everything from his campaign which his campaign seemed to be saying was look at all the money I raised, but a review of where that money was coming from could even be from Republicans themselves.

No problem if Republicans want to defect and become progressive democrats, I'm all for it and would of voted for Dean.

But, I seen vicious attacks upon Lieberman for no reason whatsoever. I have not looked into it but I would assume it's from the same Deanies, some even come right out and say they hate Lieberman, and that all democrats on here hate Lieberman.

Now this is what I see in Deans resume that will lead me to never vote for Dean. The people in his campaign are undemocratic, and unfriendly that simply is not the American way nor is it fair.

Lieberman has all the same problems as the other runners but his problems are highlighted and disputed.

But, reviews of the things they scream about being wrong in Lieberman are the things that I see in Dean. Such as Dean is for the death penalty, so is Lieberman. Dean according to progressives in Vermont divided the liberal vote in Vermont by supporting only Republican laws, and basically being just a Republican Democrat, the very same thing the Deanies jump all over Lieberman for being.

Dean has no clear message. It's as if he or his campaign sits around looking for and idea they can sell, rather then have an idea they think will help our democracy and our country.

I can only conclude that Deans campaign seems to be run by a bunch of used car salesmen trying to sell me a product, I do not want nor well I ever want.

[Garage Queen]

1. Problem I see in DU

People spending too much time bashing the other guy's candidates (which can only *help* the repukes) and not enough time simply pointing out the positive aspects of the guy THEY like.

[meegbear]

8. The deanpers started it a few months back ...

they came here and dissed every other candidate. Bashing, sure. But it was OK when they did it.

[Malikshah]

26. *From back of car*

Mom!!!!!!

Dean's touching me...now he's sitting on *my* side of the seat...
Mom!!! make him stop

*From front of car*

Don't make me stop and turn this democracy around!

Would be funny if it hadn't already happened...

[Booberdawg]

2. Tell me the truth now

oh, ... nevermind:eyes:

[XanaDUer]

3. Don't sweat it, jfkennedy

I felt the same way. Close inspection of Dean's position on many issues caused me to decide not to support him.

Also, "bashing"-any comment deemed negative by certain factions on DU.

Whatever. It is intelligent to examine any candidate's record and see if it gels with your beliefs and what you think is important.

You have the right to post about it, too. Good luck!

[dajabr]

4. "Dean has no clear message"

Nope, none at all...

Burlington, Vermont -- Today I announce that I am running for President of the United States of America. I speak not only for my candidacy. I speak for a new American century and a new generation of Americans -- both young people and the young at heart. We seek the great restoration of American values and the restoration of our nation's traditional purpose in the world.

This is a campaign to unite and empower people everywhere.

It is a call to every American, regardless of party, to join together in common purpose and for the common good to save and restore all that it means to be an American.

Over a year ago I began to travel the country in the usual way one does when seeking the Presidency.

I believed that, by running for President, I could raise the issues of health care for every American and the need to focus on early childhood development. I wanted to bring those issues to the forefront of the national debate. And I wanted to balance the budget to bring financial stability and jobs back to America.

Most importantly, I have wanted my party to stand up for what we believe in again.

But something changed along the way as I listened to Americans around this country. On my first trip to Iowa I heard people speak of a profound fear and distrust of multi-national corporations. From New Hampshire to Texas I met Americans doubting the words of our leaders and our government in Washington. Every where I go people are asking fundamental questions: Who can we trust? Is the media reporting the truth? What is happening to our country?

The Americans I have met love their country. They believe deeply in its promise, our values and our principles. But they know something is wrong and they want to take action. They want to do something to right our path. But they feel Washington isn't listening. And as individuals, they lack the power to change the course those in Washington have put us on.

More: http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6455&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1321

[molly]

9. Would one of you Deanies hop on over to PC

and tell us Dean's stance on Iraq?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=23826

[dajabr]

10. Glad you asked, because I just posted it there... n/t

[HFishbine]

13. For Those Who Don't Want To Click Through

Here's Dean's stance on Iraq. How about Kerry's? Anybody?

-------------

Wednesday April 9, 2003

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Governor Howard Dean, M.D. called for United Nations cooperation in helping rebuild Iraq.

"We knew from the outset we could win this war without much help from others. But we cannot win the peace by continuing to go it alone," Governor Dean said. "Our goal should be what the Administration has promised-an Iraq that is stable, self-sufficient, whole and free. Our strategy to achieve that goal should be based on a partnership with three sides-U.S., international and Iraqi-and a program that begins with seven basic points."

Those points are:

+ A NATO-led coalition should maintain order and guarantee disarmament.

+ Civilian authority in Iraq should be transferred to an international body approved by the U.N. Security Council.

+ The U.N.'s Oil for Food program should be transformed into an Oil for Recovery program, to pay part of the costs of reconstruction and transition.

+ The U.S. should convene an international donor's conference to help finance the financial burden of paying for Iraq's recovery.

+ Women should participate in every aspect of the decision-making process.

+ A means should be established to prosecute crimes committed against the Iraqi people by individuals associated with Saddam Hussein's regime.

+ A democratic transition will take between 18 to 24 months, although troops should expect to be in Iraq for a longer period.

"We must hold the Administration to its promises before the war, and create a world after the war that is safer, more democratic, and more united in winning the larger struggle against terrorism and the forces that breed it," Governor Dean said.

"That is, after all, now much more than a national security objective," he added. "It is a declaration of national purpose, written in the blood of our troops, and of the innocent on all sides who have perished."

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_policy_foreign_iraq_7pointplan

[HFishbine]

33. Kerry's Stance on Iraq?

Still waiting...

[charlie]

34. It's in Molly's link above n/t

[jfkennedy]

46. Iraq is like Vietnam

But Dean fails to see that we have not won the war in Iraq yet and like in Vietnam the people of Iraq simply do not want Bush's vision of Democracy, and like in Vietnam the people simply did not want Americans in Vietnam or Nixon’s vision of Democracy.

I doubt very much the people of Iraq want Bush's vision of democracy so if there is no foundation of democracy to build upon it is just in reality going to be a continued conflict (War) but in a different name a police action in the name of the UN.

Most pacifists such as myself thinks that we as a country should stay out of the business of telling other nations how to run their affairs such as Iraq and all the troops should leave Iraq now.

Wars solve nothing. Wars do not bring peace.

[Cocoa]

48. what about his resume?

was Vermont very warlike when he was governor?

[Ardee]

55. tongue in cheek but with truthfulness

Dean, as governor, reduced senior safety nets, cut education budgets,favored corporate interests over environmental concerns, sort of like, oh you know , the repukes always do.........If you wish you may call that a war on the powerless by the powerful.......

[sangh0]

22. There's no clear message in that speech

The only thing that's clear in there is Dean's criticism of Bush* which, btw, are stupendous. But as far as what Dean is going to do, the speech relies on what propogandists call "glittering generalities" (ex. "the common good", "what it means to be an American", etc).

[molly]

5. I'm sure all issues will come out as the primary approaches

Joe Trippi is going to ruin Dean's chances with his "in your face" negative dirty campaigning. We had some huge fights here about it the last few weeks and it has been tempered down a lot.

[w4rma]

6. How the heck is this undemocratic?

Dean Raises $7.5 Million in Second Quarter
In the second quarter ending yesterday, 59,000 Americans donated an average of $112 to help boost Governor Howard Dean to the top of the second quarter fundraisers with a total of $7.5 million raised.

Unlike the small, exclusive multi-million dollar fundraisers held in major cities by President Bush over the last week, the Dean campaign saw its numbers surge based on small donations over the Internet—with nearly $3 million raised online in the last week alone. In the second quarter, 45,030 people donated online a total of 51,474 times. The average donation online was $74.14.

“When we said last week during the governor’s announcement that ‘You have the power,’ we had no idea just how much power our supporters had,” said Campaign Manager Joe Trippi. “They are people participating directly in their democracy, and doing whatever they can to help us take our country back—giving $20, $30, or $50. This is People-Powered Howard.”

Second quarter fundraising by the numbers:

Total raised in second quarter: $7,500,000 Total donors (2003 to date): 70,000
Average contribution: $112

First time donors in second quarter: 48,000

Levels of Internet Giving:
Less than $50: 18,422
$50 -- 99: 11,579
$100 -- $249: 11,436
$250 -- $499: 2,379
$500 -- $1,000: 368
$1,000 and up: 129
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000584.html

Massive information dump on Gov. Howard Dean
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=43435&mesg_id=43435&page=

[sangh0]

24. Here's how!

The tactic of expressing financial matters in terms of averages is extremely misleading, which is probably why Bush* has adopted the same tactic when promoting his own policies, such as his tax cuts. Bush* describes those tax cuts asa offering American families an average of about $1,000 in tax relief. What he doesn't say is that only a few (rich) families will get a lot of tax relief, while most will get little. The average he cites *may* be correct, but it is misleading.

Dean may have an "average contribution" that gives the appearance of a large # of individuals donating a small amount of money, but a little research reveals that that description is also somewhat misleading. For a better picture of Dean's financial supporters, go to:

http://www.opensecrets.org/st/getsindex.asp?state=VT&candid=VT512&cycle=2000

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/contrib.asp?id=N00025663&cycle=2004

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/indus.asp?id=N00025663&cycle=2004

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/sector.asp?id=N00025663&cycle=2004

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/pfd2001/N00025663_2001.pdf

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/donordems.asp

[CWebster]

27. But not nearly so much as...

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/contrib.asp?id=N00000245&cycle=2004

[sangh0]

29. Typical

You asked about how Dean's contributions could be undemocratic when the avg donation is small. I responded explaining how, and then providing more info on Dean's campaign contributions.

Instead of defending Dean, you attack another candidate.

[CWebster]

31. I didn't ask anything

I merely demonstrated a comparison. Ooops, that's right, this is a bash Dean only thread....again.

I really do have to stop swatting at these annoying little insects. LOL

[sangh0]

32. Defend your candidate if you can

and if you can't, keep attacking the others.

Dean is promoting himself as somehow new and different from the other candidates. One problem - He's not

[dajabr]

40. I love opensecrets!

This is a great page: http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/donordems.asp

There are 6 other candidates who have more $2000+ contributors. Most of them number in the thousands - dean is in the hundreds. What say you to that?

Oh, and those big corporations feeding Dean money? Here's what you forgot to read:

"HOW TO READ THIS CHART: This chart lists the top donors to this candidate during the 2004 election cycle.The organizations themselves did not donate, rather the money came from the organization's PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates."

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/contrib.asp?id=N00025663&cycle=2004

Governor race in 2000? Dwyer took of the gloves and accepted outside money from the RNC. Dean reluctantly had to do the same to compete.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/demgov.html

Got anything else?

[RetroLounge]

41. "Defend your candidate if you can..."

"...and if you can't, keep attacking the others."

Sounds like the whole purpose of this thread.

It's all a bunch of ego-stroking political masturbation.

Bash bash bash... Boring... still.

[sendero]

56. He's not?

Cuz you say so? Don't make me laugh. And as soon as I see a thread from jfk that isn't another Dean roast, I'll consider his comments :)

[JNelson6563]

7. this would be more impressive

if it weren't simply opinion, rhetoric and basic whining. I find it hard to believe you ever wanted to support Dean and wonder what counter-productive path you might take if he were to win the nom.

Thanks for an utterly useless post. Your attempt to come off as some brilliant political analysis is a failure BTW. What's the word I am thinking of here.......oh yes! Lame.

*yawn*

Wake me if anyone shows up with any substance.

Julie

Edited to add: Um, to make things even more laughable, you forgot to interject anything about Dean's actual resume into this serving of whine--hence the irrelevance of your title. I am hoping you put as little thought and effort into this as it would appear you did.....

[Ripley]

16. I didn't know people's smiles were included in their resumes.

Who knew?

Dean's smile looks like a used car salesman....Hahahahah!

What an astute observation, in fact it reminds me of the way Kerry's mouth looks when he eats swiss cheesesteaks!

Does this look like the guy at "Bob's Cheap Wheels?"

[searchingforlight]

11. I absolutely defend your right to post this, to work to defeat Dean

if you dislike him so much and to vote for GWB should Dean he win the nomination.

[HFishbine]

12. "Dean has no clear message."

For a perfect example of "no clear message;" one full of self-contradictions and grammatical nonsense, re-read your post. It's freeper style.

[roughsatori]

14. Your post is too vague and filled with generalizatons about "Deanies"

I still will vote for whoever wins the Democratic primary.

[gristy]

15. 4 wasted minutes of my life I'm not getting back

What a piece of junk.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. LOL-

I propose a moratorium on the candidate bashing but as you can see by this thread jfkennedy bashed dean and then another poster bashed kerry when kerry wasn't even mentioned by the seminal poster.

If the point he is making is that all politicians are trimmers I agree 100%.

[dajabr]

19. Where is...

The Kerry bash in this thread? Just looked again... :shrug:

[Ripley]

20. Maybe they're referring to my mention

of Kerry in my post above. Sheesh, I guess one has to be explicit as hell these days....

My point was that inane descriptions of Dean's mouth are EXACTLY like the inane descriptions in the WP about Kerry eating a sandwich. They are both frivolous, irrelevant topics as to determine how a person would best serve this country as President.

If anything, I was defending Kerry.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. The More Salient Point Is That All Politicians Are Trimmers

and pander to their constituencies.

Why single out Dean or any other candidate.

[synthia]

54. what is a trimmer?n/t

[Eloriel]

18. Not on single, viable

piece of information in there. Not one accurate description, not one viable opinion (they're all based on misperceptions or outright lies), not one fact... etc.

Useless, baseless, pointless, DUMB.

And it's not going to sway any Dean supporters, that's for sure. Probaby not lurkers and newbies, either, IF they're clever enough (and it wouldn't take much) to actually check out Dean and his campaing themselves.

Eloriel

[sfecap]

21. Your entire post could have been simply been...

...I am not voting for Howard Dean.

But thank you for all of the silly rhetoric. Dean doesn't have a message? Right. If he doesn't, then niether do any of the candidates.

His message (or lack thereof) may not appeal to you, and that's fine, but really what you are putting up here is just flamebait!

[Booberdawg]

25. Does the Vaseline come free with this?

Or do you charge extra for it?

I have not settled on a candidate, so I don't have a dog in the Dean fight, but you have gone to great lengths to make up a lot of opinionated immature nonsense without any basis in reality. Dean has no clear message? You can't shut the guy up!

Used car salesmen?? Honey - ALL the candidates are trying to sell themselves. It's how the game is played. Fact of life.

You have a personal problem with supporters of certain candidates, therefore you don't like Dean. Neener neener neener. :eyes:

Nobody likes Lieberman. It's not a Deanie conspiracy.

You never got around to discussing anything on Dean's resume, as lead to expect from your title.

You might try reading some non-flame threads on the candidates. You might learn something if you approach it with an open mind. What you have displayed here is a disingenuous load of whiny crap.

[Cocoa]

28. bait and switch

you said you were going to say something about his resume, but you never delivered.

[realFedUp]

30. you are no jfk

weak post...no reference to anything in his resume...
picked on what you deem to be physical flaws.

won't read you again.

[liberalnurse]

35. Ditto here.

Some folks just don't get it. They think lashing out at a compeating candidate has impact. They have no vision of the power one can gain from a united front. It is sadly delusional thinking like this that can give us another 4 years of *bush.

[killbotfactory]

36. Dean only supported republican laws?

That might come as a surprise to many vermonters.

[jfkennedy]

37. I describe his pacifism or lack of a principled based pacifism

Being anti-war is much more then having a anti-war slogan that gets someone elected to be president.

Most pacifists such as myself, have a long standing tradition of being enemies of labor, not by our choice but the choice of labor, and enemies of Republicans and Democrats again not by our choice, and that hatred of us will not stop just by some slick politician selling and anti-war message to get some votes during a war.

I can assure you that if Dean got elected like the Republican Democrats like Clinton would not even so much as care would not even respond to a letter, or even a thank you for your vote, to the pacifist wing of the party.

Most people as pacifists that are against the war are in fact unpopular, and I sort of like that I think a million man March formula for social change is just masked anti-Semitism and furthermore the tactics won't work here in America.

And by and large people that are anti-war as a matter of principle do so knowing that the ones that start the wars are always conservative Republicans, and when people like Dean campaign as such so that they can get the conservative Republican vote, I know for a fact that have no experience with anti-war pacifism. The conservative Republican will never be a pacifist, and has zero tolerance for those that are. I have problems about the way he says in his resume that he can raise more money then other progressives, but then he uses the money to pander to
the Republican swing vote which by the way in reality I can bet that all these magical swing voters in 2004 will say they support Dean but on election day vote Bush.

[Cocoa]

43. but what about the resume?

you say Dean reminds you of a used car salesman, but aren't you guilty of false advertisement here?

[sfecap]

44. So you are an enemy of Democrats?

What are you doing here?

BTW...when did Howard Dean say he was a pacifist?

Dean campaigns as a "conservative Republican"? That is total bullshit.

Are you an enemy of the Democrats? Please give us an answer to that one, OK? You really need to clarify that statement..

[jfkennedy]

49. my point is

If he is not a pacifist he is not qualified to oppose the war. One can say they are against a war but if they have no principled action to back up their anti war message it will not end wars or the roots of the things that grow into wars or conflicts.

If he is not a pacifist then what is he doing then?

Just trying to see if a few million people will go to some demos and vote him into being president?

Some of the greatest antiwar leaders were Gandhi and MLK they were pacifists, and Democrats by and large around their times supported pacifism, but Deans supporters deny being pacifists. Is it possible that Denies deny being pacifists out of fear of being called unpatriotic?

Dean and his campaign can't have both a philosophy that is tolerant of war,and for peace by means of war because in the 21st century there is no such thing as a just war.

[dansolo]

59. You must be a pacifist to oppose a war?

That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard.

[Larkspur]

45. Dean never described himself as a pacifist

He opposed the war because Bush didn't have the evidence to support his claims for war.

[dajabr]

47. Did Dean have an "anti-war slogan?"

Must have missed the memo at the RNC (oops!)... I mean, MeetUp...

"War is mean - vote Dean!"

"If you want war in Iraq, your brain is the size of a jellybean - vote Dean!"

"Vote Dean - save a soldier's spleen!"

ugh...

[Career Prole]

38. It's what I don't see in his resume that bothers me.

Governor of Vermont doesn't give you much in the way of foreign policy experience. IMO, after dubya thumbed his nose at the world we're going to need some foreign policy expertise at the top. Being governor of a "state near Canada" doesn't get you any more foreign policy lessons than being governor of a "state near Mexico"

[Ripley]

39. Like Arkansas?

Are you saying Clinton was just as bad as Smirk?

[Career Prole]

51. Not at all...

I'll admit Bill Clinton made some errors...most notably (at least to me) Rwanda. He wasn't the best at foreign policy we've ever had but he was good...and he was far, far from the worst. That spot's occupied by the usurper who figured "¿Donde esta el baño?" was all he'd ever need.
My concern is that a normal grounding in foreign relations would get us through in normal times, but these are no longer normal times. Dumbya has burnt about every bridge we've built in the past 200 years and it's going to take some serious diplomacy to lessen the bad blood...else we ain't gonna get squat from anyone when we need anything on the order of international assistance or even simple cooperation. I could be wrong...but my gut tells me we'd better not be stepping on too many more toes or twisting too many more arms. We're running out of real (as opposed to merely "willing") allies. I don't want to aggravate the jingos too much 'cuz they'll key my car again, but the present situation may even call for a little judicious ass-kissing, ally-wise. Not a simple situation for the next President.

[Tinoire]

60. Bravo

I don't think most people stop to think just how MUCH ill will there is toward American AND Americans for everything America has done over the decades. Bush was just an obscene last straw but this all started way before Bush. Democrats and Republicans alike authorized wars and expeditions into other countries where people were murdered; Democrats and Republicans alike enabled corporations to pillage and plunder the third world, Democrats and Republicans alike endorsed the oppression of innocent indigenous peoples, forced or tried to in the case of Europe, genetically modified trash on the rest of the world, allowed rain forests to be cut down, poisoned the environment etc etc for a long-assed list.

Nor do most DUers stop and think how tired and broken less financially solvent Americans are.

The time for REAL change is now- otherwise America can kiss its ass good-bye as the empire sinks into the mud abandoned by all its allies who, for decades, have been tired of being pushed around and forced to cater to America's whims.

The EU will crush America into the dust if we don't take a 180 degree turn right now. Does American have the courage and the wisdom to do that?

[RetroLounge]

42. There are so many holes in your logic

but maybe you should take another grammar class first...

"When I first seen Dean "

"problems that looks like "

"But, I seen vicious attacks "

This is what? Your 10th or 20th bash Dean post? So who cares that you won't vote for him. How about your candidate? Got anything positive to add?

Didn't think so...

[HFishbine]

50. HIs candidate

is Bush. Can't you tell?

[stickdog]

52. Problems I see with your post.

No coherence.

No knowledge.

No substance.

Lots of Deanis envy.

[poskonig]

53. You explained why Dean has no supporters or money.

:crazy:

[Clete]

57. I guess he couldn't hold a candle to Bush's resume

now could he. <sarcasm>

[farmbo]

58. The man is whip smart, hard working & honest..who cares about resumes.

And as for "vicious attacks on Lieberman..."; respectfully, you are playing out an agenda here! Lieberman is the one who called Dean-- on a huge, national DLC platform-- "a ticket to nowhere".

Dean is more sinned against than sinning.

Because you've resorted to ad hominum, strawman attacks, your post lacks credibility.