Blacks and minorities can provide the "swing vote" (If we appeal to them)

[bigtree]

Addressing the concerns and needs of African Americans will energize a voter bloc that has been traditionally loyal to the Democratic party, but has not voted in the numbers that their community needs to effect their issues and concerns at election time. The party should not be more concerned with appealing to 'middle of the road' "swing voters" than we are with giving voice to these traditional Democrats. Record participation by these minority voters has the potential to far outstrip the contribution of centrist voters to John Kerry's victory. More importantly, a centrist approach that disregards, or takes for granted these traditional Democratic communities could very well discourage these groups from full participation at the ballot box.

Has our party done enough to appeal to Blacks, Asians, Latinos, Native Americans, immigrants, and others who find themselves in the minority? What can our party do to insure that these citizens don't get short shrift as we reach out for votes?

[Melodybe]

1. I thought that they did a beautiful job yesterday at the DNC.

I was crying my eyes out all day.

[bigtree]

2. Barack Obama

"In the end, that's what this election is about. Do we participate in a politics of cynicism or a politics of hope? John Kerry calls on us to hope. John Edwards calls on us to hope. I'm not talking about blind optimism here-the almost willful ignorance that thinks unemployment will go away if we just don't talk about it, or the health care crisis will solve itself if we just ignore it. No, I'm talking about something more substantial. It's the hope of slaves sitting around a fire singing freedom songs; the hope of immigrants setting out for distant shores; the hope of a young naval lieutenant bravely patrolling the Mekong Delta; the hope of a millworker's son who dares to defy the odds; the hope of a skinny kid with a funny name who believes that America has a place for him, too. The audacity of hope!"

"In the end, that is God's greatest gift to us, the bedrock of this nation; the belief in things not seen; the belief that there are better days ahead. I believe we can give our middle class relief and provide working families with a road to opportunity. I believe we can provide jobs to the jobless, homes to the homeless, and reclaim young people in cities across America from violence and despair. I believe that as we stand on the crossroads of history, we can make the right choices, and meet the challenges that face us. America!"

...read the full text- http://www.obamaforillinois.com/index.asp?Type=B_PR&SEC={4C624248-27E9-4F67-A685-921F17AEFF00}&DE={FFC97208-2B20-4DFC-9346-39A933A3C66D}

watch the speech- http://www.dems2004.org/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=luI2LaPYG&b=125925&ct=158769

[Chuletas]

3. Just to continue the Obama is great

Saw the speech in a bar in Boston. Thought it couldn't get better than the big dawg and it did. He was speaking to all of us as children of immigrants, not pandering and my eyes began to water. I started thinking of my own convervative dear passed away abuela and that if she had heard this "young man" she would have voted for him as well.

America is for all of us.

Very nicely done, the vision for us is set, now after the convention to get to work on the details and policies.

[Booster]

4. Explain to me exactly why any minority would even

consider voting for Bush, unless they are filthy rich and getting an enormous tax cut. Of course, you could also try and explain to me why a black person would want to be Mormon, but there are a lot of them.

[bigtree]

6. Some folks who have had their needs ignored for decades despair

They feel that no party can make a difference and just don't particiate. I fail to understand why we give more attention to that slim group in the middle who feel disenfranchised, yet ignore that sizable group on the left who feel equally, or more, disenfranchised.

I don't feel that minorities will go for Bush (9% last election), but I fear that many will again sit out this election if our party, in its rhetoric and direction, trivializes or soft-pedals their concerns in an attempt to draw in untraditional Democrats. Voter participation in these minority groups has not been high enough to greatly affect the outcome of elections, but it very well could if we energize them with our attention and committment.

[sangh0]

9. Needs ignored????

Under Clinton, minorities experienced higher employment, higher incomes, higher rates of home ownership, lower crime rates, lower rates of teen pregnancy and substance abuse.

If their needs have been ignored, then that's a temporary condition that will be eliminated on 1/20/2005

[Booster]

32. I think in the Dem Convention minorities

certainly have been highlighted and given really good spots on stage, from the entertainment, to the prayers, to singing the National Anthem. If they don't see the difference between the two parties then it certainly isn't the fault of the Dems not trying. It would just have to be chalked up to too lazy to get involved or just not interested in politics, which I can't really blame them for. All we can ask of them is that they at least watch and listen.

[gcomeau]

26. Missed his speech...

...but saw it online today.

Impressive. Now that guy can speak.

I actually had the fleeting image of "Obama for President" circa 2024 or so flash through my head...

-Grant

[skygazer]

36. Goosebumps

Man, that's what it's all about, isn't it?

[sangh0]

5. Breaking News

Many/most of those minorities you would like to see voting Dem belong to the group you call "centrists" and "middle of the road", and sometimes even "conservative"

IMO, speaking disparagingly of centrists and moderates is NOT the best way to attract their support.

[bigtree]

7. That is a distortion of what I have said here.

These minority groups are traditionally liberal. Our party is traditionally liberal. That is not just a convienient indulgence, it reflects the traditional concerns and needs of our core constituency. That core constituency has not voted in numbers that comports with the numbers registered. Why not? Should we abandon or downplay their needs and concerns to appeal to voters who have not traditionally voted Democrat? I don't think so. Nor do I believe that we should ignore the concerns of conservatives, but only if we address their concerns in ways that do not conflict with or evicerate the efforts of those who have built this party.

I believe our Democratic party has the correct philosophy and direction that does'nt need any tempering from conservatives. I believe that addressing the needs and concerns of minorities is ultimately good for all of America. I don't believe that moderates and conservatives need more political clout. The reason that more minorities identify with our party is because we usually speak directly to the issues that most affect their communities. There are more than enough of these voters who haven't yet full participated in the process to provide that 'swing' margin of victory some would have us pander for from conservative, middle of the roaders.

[sangh0]

8. Minorities are NOT traditionally liberal

and neither is the Democratic Party. Minorities support school vouchers, prayer in school, faith-based social programs, and bans on abortion and gay marriage.

[Chovexani]

10. Huh, what?

I respectfully take great exception with such a broad generalization. I don't know what minorities you've been talking to, but my family and the folks in my neck of the woods don't support any of those things, with the possible exception of prayer in school--and even then it's not about shoving prayer down people's throats. I'm not a political strategist, but when I talk about these issues with the people around me I hear very different things than that.

For instance my Mom is a liberal on some issues and more of a moderate on others. She's an evangelical Christian who personally doesn't agree with homosexuality or gay marriage (she always mutters Sodom and Gomorrah comments whenever they show clips of the Pride Parade on tv), but she's more offended by people trying to ban it. Like most Americans of all races she takes a live and let live stance on the issue. She cares about the environment, not nearly as much as I do, but she is very aware of environmental racism. She's pro-choice--personally she doesn't believe in abortion but she thinks it should be legal because it's between a woman and God, it's none of the government's business. Even on the few issues where she would take a hardcore conservative stance, she completely distrusts Republicans and that is why she is a Democrat.

I'm not saying everyone in my neck of the woods thinks like my Mom, but a hell of a lot people do. At any rate, making such broad statements about what this or that group thinks is counterproductive. Especially when no one ever bothers to actually ask people from that group what they think.

[sangh0]

12. I don't know about your neck of the woods

but polls consistently show that minorities (ie blacks, latinos and latinas, and Asians) tend to support these policies. It's not 90% to 10%, but it's more than 50%.

[Chovexani]

14. Who are they asking?

I think it's more an issue of region than race.

I inherently distrust polls.

[sangh0]

16. It depends on the poll

Here's one from a progressive

http://www.progressive.org/mpmuwakkiljan98.htm

"The idea of vouchers resonates in black communities across the country. A poll taken last March found that 57.3 percent of African Americans support the idea of school vouchers, a jump of 10 percentage points in just one year. The poll also revealed stark divisions within the African-American community. While 86.5 percent of those from age 26 to 35 supported vouchers, only 19 percent of those older than 65 did."

And here's one reported by Salon, a liberal website:

http://www.salon.com/sept97/news/news970930.html

"thirty black ministers and educators from Detroit traveled to a Queens church early last month for a conversion ceremony of sorts. They had come to learn from the Rev. Floyd Flake how he had built the Allen African Methodist Episcopal Church into a congregation of 9,000 that brought housing, businesses and quality education to a blighted neighborhood. Most of all, they had come to hear how the pastor -- a liberal, black, six-term Democratic New York congressman -- had embraced the cause of school vouchers...

...Black support for vouchers has risen nearly 10 points, to 57.3 percent, in the past year, according to a poll by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, a Washington-based think tank devoted to black issues. Yet the poll also shows stark fissures within the black community. For instance, while 86.5 percent of blacks between the ages of 26 and 35 supported vouchers, only 19 percent of those older than 65 did so. "

This article goes on to say that it was Bositis, a reputable pollster, who found that a majority of blacks supported vouchers.

[bigtree]

17. Did they ask them if they would support vouchers if the money came from

public schools? These vouchers were offered at 1500.oo. Much less than the average private school tuition, excluding transportation, uniform and othe expenses, which most minorities can't afford. Most minorities go to public school and most support public education. Most, I believe would not support a weakening of that system to suit a handful of their community.

[sangh0]

19. Do some research

I know you must not like it when I go do the work and dig up evidence that contradicts your assertions, but you can't possibly expect that I'm going to exert myself and look for studies that supports you.

If you think the poll results would be different under different circumstances, then do your homework and find those other polls.

[bigtree]

20. I work pretty hard my friend.

Myths and Facts About School Vouchers

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=1429


MYTH #1: African-Americans Support Private-School Vouchers

FACT: African-Americans are eager for reform, but, when given the choice, most of them consistently opt for smaller classes and other common-sense reforms-not vouchers.


Voucher supporters often cite a few polls to make this point-frequently, these include a 1998 Public Agenda poll and a 1999 poll by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies. In doing so, however, voucher advocates conveniently ignore other, more recent polls and indicators. For example, a 2001 Zogby International poll offered African-Americans five options for improving education. Among blacks, the choice of "providing parents with school vouchers" finished dead last of the five options. In fact, African-Americans chose "reducing class sizes" over vouchers by a 7-to-1 margin.1 The nonpartisan Teachers Insurance Plan commissioned a poll by Opinion Research Corporation in 2001, which found that 61% of blacks and 59% of Latinos would rather see more funding "go toward the public schools than go to a voucher program."2

Perhaps the most important 'poll' is the ballot box. In November 2000, voters in Michigan and California handily defeated school voucher referenda. In both states, black and Latino voters rejected the voucher proposals by at least a 2-to-1 margin.3

[sangh0]

24. That poll doesn't support your argument

That poll shows that there are other policies that blacks prefer over vouchers. It doesn't show that blacks do not support vouchers.

Perhaps the most important 'poll' is the ballot box.

Like most people of any race, blacks vote on the basis of a multitude of issues, and not just abortion, vouchers, and gay marriage. Maybe, they alo take issues like welfare, war, affirmative action, tax cuts, deficits, etc into account when they vote.

Shocking, huh?

[Tomee450]

35. Thanks

for posting this information. Recently, I read another article that disputes the notion that blacks support school vouchers.

[sangh0]

21. Here's a poll on abortion

http://www.prolife.liberals.com/opinion/money_race.html

[Tomee450]

34. I am African American and

I agree with everything you said. I keep hearing that blacks support vouchers but I have never heard any African American of my acquaintance express such such support. Instead they express the desire that the public schools, which most black students attend, be improved.

[bigtree]

11. Not in my community, nor in any that I have experienced

Not on any of the issues you have outlined. Most minorities opposed Reagan when he began the prayer in school political canard, most minorities would not support school vouchers (nor would most bee able to take advantage of the paltry sums provided, nor be able to obtain a slot) that take money away from public education which they overwhelmingly support. The faith based canard is a take off on Reagan's attempt to dissolve the social safety net by claiming that the community could absorb the poor and disadvantaged without government (which minorities overwhelmingly support as the guaranteeor of their liberty). The minority community would be most affected by any ban on abortion as their communities have disproportionatenumbers advantaging themselves of this service and do not have the resources of others to overcome such a ban. Political opposition to gay marriage is a divisive canard that is the invention of republicans to distract from their ineptness, neglect, and abuse. I don't see minorities streaming to republicans in an embrace of these canards. I don't see where the evidence is that these issues, which may be of a concern to some, comprise the view of the majority.

[sangh0]

13. Most minority members DO support those policies

Check with Pew.

[bigtree]

15. The politics of these issues have been a distortion

They have been politicized. Not many support abortion, but most support abortion rights. Many may support prayer in school, but not to the extent that we impose on other beliefs. Many would be glad for federal money for their church organizations, but not to supplant other federal inituitive and aid. As for Gay marriage, most would not condone any discrimination.

You cite a poll, but where are the votes that would support your assertion? Most vote Democratic. Most minotities have yet to support these exrtremists who have used these issues to divide Americans. The politics of these issues stinks. I'm suprised that you don't see the contradictions between the rhetoric of the right on these issues and the reality of how these inituitives translate into policy. It may be fine to have these beliefs, but in a political sense they are not presented by conservatives in ways which respect other more impoortant aspects of people's lives. Certainly, there is no evidence in minority voting patterns (which is what my original premise was) that would support your assertions in any way that should cause our party to abandon its base, its majority, to appeal to those who have been swayed by these republican-manufactured political canards.

[sangh0]

18. Maybe, but the end result is that a majority of minority members

support a number of conservative policies.

You cite a poll, but where are the votes that would support your assertion? Most vote Democratic.

True, for some odd reason, they prefer to vote for abortionists instead of voting for the party that would like them to go drop dead.

I'm suprised that you don't see the contradictions between the rhetoric of the right on these issues and the reality of how these inituitives translate into policy.

You must be very confused. We are talking about minorities. I am white. Your beef is with them.

[bigtree]

23. What the heck does your race have to do with my queries or responses?

The rhetoric of the right wing of the republican party on these issues doesn't match their policy prescriptions, which most minorities have rejected at the voting box.

[sangh0]

25. Here's where my race comes in

You said "I'm suprised that you don't see the contradictions between the rhetoric of the right on these issues and the reality of how these inituitives translate into policy. "

The problem is, we're not talking about what *I* believe. We're talking about what minorities believe. I understand the R's rhetoric and how it doesn't match up to their policies, but many others do not - Particularly those we are talking about in this thread...minority voters who support vouchers, and limits on abortion and gay marriage.

[Chovexani]

29. I contend that we do.

Noiretblu said it better than I could have...black people fall all along the political spectrum just like anyone else, but the vast majority aren't stupid and aren't falling for the rhetoric. We know the reich-wing Republican party does not give a shit about us.

This is tantamount to saying that ministrel show they called a convention 4 years ago made black people say "well, golly, those Republicans are so inclusive, look at all those singing and dancing Negroes they have on stage! Let's vote for them!"

It didn't happen then and it's not happening now. There's a reason that, even with the numbers you are giving about positions on various social issues, 90%+ voted for Al Gore in 2000.

[sangh0]

31. I agree with you about how blacks vote

I haven't said one word disputing the FACT that a large majority of blacks vote Dem. However, what's being debated here is whether or not blacks support certain specific conservative *POLICIES*, not whether they support a specific *PARTY*

Blacks support the Democratic *PARTY* but they do not support all of the *POLICIES* the Democratic Party supports.

[noiretextatique]

22. let's not forget the race card

people of color certainly span the political spectrum, however racism is GOP party family value. that certainly is a factor that influences centrists/moderates who are also people of color. not to mention the republican's are fiscally irresponsible (i know that's an understatement).
i doubt my late uncle (who was a republican) would support bush, inc. he didn't vote for reagan the second time either.

[sangh0]

27. I agree

bigtree is arguing that because so many blacks vote Dem, it must mean that they don't support any conservative policy because if they did, they would vote for the Repukes.

I believe that there are many blacks who support conservative social policies, but still vote Dem because of the obvious bigotry of the Republican Party, which overwhelms their concern over these social issues.

[noiretextatique]

28. absolutely agree

bigtree should meet some of my relatives in texas :7

[bigtree]

33. Whatever beliefs folks may have on these issues

politically, there is nothing in conservative politics that will solve the exploitation of abortion outside of a ban, nothing that can prevent gays from being gay or recognizing their partnership under God. There is, however, much that the conservatives are contemplating in the way of discrimination against these folks by denying them benefits other opposite-sex, 'married' partners enjoy by virtue of their choice of sexual orientation. Most folks wouldn't take the majority of their community and weaken their education to benefit a handful who would be able to advantage themselves with vouchers paid with money denied from public schools. The politics don't add up. Folks can believe whatever they want, but these beliefs don't translate into policy that is presented that most folks would support, including minority communities, who would, in many cases, be most affected.

[noiretextatique]

37. perhaps that's why democrats got 90+% of the black vote in 2000

ya think? your post almost sounds like that wasn't the case. i agree with your point about reaching out to people who actually vote democratic, but you can't ignore the power of wedge issues like abortion and gay marriage, even among people of color. my relatives in texas are conservative on social issues, but having experienced segregation and other forms of legal injustice, they don't trust the government as much as some americans do. many black people also support vouchers...is that really surprising? it isn't at all, considering the state of many urban school districts that just so happen to have large populations of poor people of color. desperation can make a scam like vouchers seems like a real opportunity. remember the goal of the rw is to divide and conquer...that's exactly what these wedge issues do. fortunately, "the black experience" in america, for the most, has not been that great for the vast majority of african-americans...except in very recent history.
as i mentioned in a previous post, the republican party doesn't even attempt to hide its racism, a fact that likely (per the 90+% number in my title) explains why even some black centrist and moderates vote democratic.
in general though...i agree that appealing to the base is a good idea (a no brainer, in fact). i haven't seen all the convention speeches, but clinton specifically mentioned making sure people get to vote, and making sure all the votes get counted. that should help energize some folks.
also, p diddy is running some ads on MTV with younger entertainment notables to appeal to younger, urban voters.
i know democrats in my town, which has large black, latino, and asian populations (oakland, ca) have been working very hard to register voters.

[w4rma]

30. Democrats, imho, should try to appeal to all ethicities. (nt)