Playing Patriot Games: Patriotism or Nationalism?

[Q]

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patriotism

Love of country; devotion to the welfare of one's country; the virtues and actions of a patriot; the passion which inspires one to serve one's country.

- Nationalism:

The doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other

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- In this (right) corner...we have the NEOCONS. War President George Bush* claims that HE is the most patriotic and will kiss the flag and kill thousands of Iraqi innocents and American soldiers to prove it. Reason for war? He doesn't need a stinking reason. War for the sake of war. Disagree? Then you're unpatriotic.

- In this (right of left) corner...we have the NEODEMS. The next war/peace president and vice president claim they are the most patriotic because they can run the (same) war in a more organized manner and give it an international flair.

- Which party is more patriotic? The party that started the war under false pretenses or the party that criticizes it and then fights it anyway...despite the consequences?

- Are we being 'patriotic' when we support unnecessary, unjust wars? Or have we succumbed to nationalism and the demands for conformity that come with it? Patriots SERVE their country by not allowing it to be swept away by nationalism and blind obedience to government.

- Nationalists invent reasons for war and then manipulate the people into supporting it. Patriots understand that war is sometimes necessary for the DEFENSE of the country but should always be a last resort.

- No one wants to be called unpatriotic and thus accused of not loving their country. But what's patriotic about allowing yourself to be manipulated into supporting an aggressive war that has nothing to do with the defense of the United States? It's not patriotic to send a solider into harm's way when there are alternatives to war.

- Citizens who still support this 'war' because their party supports it aren't necessarily being patriotic...they're giving in to nationalism, groupthink and war for the sake of war. Are we a country of patriots? Or have we allowed nationalism to do our thinking for us?

[greatauntoftriplets]

1. "Patriotic" and "nationalistic" don't make one iota of difference...

...to the dead, whether American, from the "coalition of the willing" or Iraqi.

This war -- especially -- proves what a bloody waste the whole thing is.

[rock]

2. Interesting, I was going to make a similar comment

In a sense, both are ways of finding something to substitute for thinking (although I got nothing against love of country, provided I'm still allowed to think).

[Q]

3. Concern for the welfare of country...

...is decidely different than playing follow the leader. Illegal or unjust aggressive war is NOT in the best interest of this country. No amount of flag waving or patriotic banter will change that fact.

[GreenArrow]

5. not "Illegal or unjust aggressive war" --

"national 'defense'."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions, and the passion of fools"

Schopenhauer said it. I agree.

[G_j]

6. Patriotism, selected quotes

-Rabbi Sherwin Wine:
There are two visions of America. One precedes our founding fathers and finds its roots in the harshness of our puritan past. It is very suspicious of freedom, uncomfortable with diversity, hostile to science, unfriendly to reason, contemptuous of personal autonomy. It sees America as a religious nation. It views patriotism as allegiance to God. It secretly adores coercion and conformity. Despite our constitution, despite the legacy of the Enlightenment, it appeals to millions of Americans and threatens our freedom.

The other vision finds its roots in the spirit of our founding revolution and in the leaders of this nation who embraced the age of reason. It loves freedom, encourages diversity, embraces science and affirms the dignity and rights of every individual. It sees America as a moral nation, neither completely religious nor completely secular. It defines patriotism as love of country and of the people who make it strong. It defends all citizens against unjust coercion and irrational conformity.

This second vision is our vision. It is the vision of a free society. We must be bold enough to proclaim it and strong enough to defend it against all its enemies.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson:
When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and the purity of its heart.

-Barbara Ehrenreich:
No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

-Carl Schurz:
The peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: "Our country -- when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right."

-James Baldwin:
I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually

-David Hume:
The heights of popularity and patriotism are still the beaten road to power and tyranny; flattery to treachery; standing armies to arbitrary government; and the glory of God to the temporal interest of the clergy.

-Goethe:
Patriotism ruins history.

-H. L. Mencken:
The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.

-Henry Steele Commager:
Men in authority will always think that criticism of their policies is dangerous. They will always equate their policies with patriotism, and find criticism subversive.

-Hermann Goering:
Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. quote verified at snopes.com

-Howard Thurman:
During times of war, hatred becomes quite respectable, even though it has to masquerade often under the guise of patriotism.

-Teddy Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star, May 7, 1918
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

-Margaret Chase Smith:
Moral cowardice that keeps us from speaking our minds is as dangerous to this country as irresponsible talk. The right way is not always the popular and easy way. Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral character.

-Mark Twain:
The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

-Mark Twain:
Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let me label you as they may.

-Mark Twain:
In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, Brave, Hated, and Scorned. When his cause succeeds however,the timid join him, For then it costs nothing to be a Patriot.


-Edith Cavell:
I realise that patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone.

-Edward R. Murrow:
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it.

-Emma Goldman:
Patriotism ... is a superstition artificially created and maintained through a network of lies and falsehoods; a superstition that robs man of his self-respect and dignity, and increases his arrogance and conceit.

- Clarence Seward Darrow
True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.

-Bob Dylan:
They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. Steal a little and they'll throw you in jail, steal alot and they'll make you king.

--
"Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of slavery." G.B. Shaw

"Patriotism is a kind of religion: It is the egg from which wars are hatched." Guy de Maupassant

"It is lamentable that to be a good patriot we must become the enemy of the rest of mankind." Voltaire

"Guard against impostures of pretended patriotism." George Washington

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde


some of these found at http://www.wisdomquotes.com

[bryant69]

7. The problem is that conditions have changed

Should we have invaded? No No No, a thousand times No. But we did. And if Kerry becomes President than he will inherit the occupation of Iraq from President Bush. There is no reset button that can get us back to where we were before this war started.

There are a couple of possible responses. One is to withdraw immediately and pay damages to the government, which will fall in a matter of days. Two is to continue our policy of occupying Iraq indefinately. Three is to work towards getting out in a timely fashion, with international support.

It's not Nationalism to say that we set Iraq on fire and now we have the responsiblity to help put it out.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[TahitiNut]

9. Any decision to continue the occupation of Iraq ...

... must incorporate an "exit strategy" (defined goals) and intermediate assessments of progress toward those goals. The presumption that anything at all will be improved by a continued occupation as opposed to a prompt withdrawal must be supported by objective assessments of such improvements.

I am personally inclined to believe that absolutely nothing positive at all can be accomplished by continued occupation. There's not a single downside to withdrawal that I have seen any rational assurance won't happen anyway after a prolonged investment of lives and treasure.

It's the Mr. Badwrench conundrum - we'll either see the disaster now or we'll see it later. It cannot be avoided.

[G_j]

10. well said

I wish more people could see it that way. Maybe you are just being too logical Mr. Spock.

[bryant69]

11. It's hard to say

I do think that Mr. Kerry does need to tell us more or less exactly how he plans to get us out of Iraq, and that occupation shouldn't go on for too much longer.

[TahitiNut]

8. Self-esteem v. egoism

Healthy self-esteem leads one to improve oneself (because we're worth the effort) and acknowledge mistakes because one understands that one's own value is not defined by mistakes but in how one deals with them. A person with self-esteem is not threatened by disagreement or by the excellence of others.

Egoism/narcissism is often an overcompensation for deep-seated feelings of inadequacy and a low opinion of one's own individual worth, relying on denial and external props.


It is not at all surprising to find a pResident with Narcissistic Personality Disorder adopting nationalistic attitudes.

[Kamikaze]

12. Americans have them confused.

American-brand patriotism is really nationalism in disguise. In true Orwellian fashion, we simply call it by a less offensive name and suddenly we're odedient little doublethinkers.

We've recently been getting to a point where our version of patriotism is almost equal to jingoism. That's downright frightening.