Luntz's focus group proves Bush is finished

[59millionmorons]

There were about 18-20 people there, 10 admitted to voting for Bush in 2000. Half now say they wont vote for Bush in 2004. Luntz himself said this is very bad news for Bush. There were only 5 people out of the 18-20 who said they will vote for Bush. This group was from conservative Cincinnatti. Bush cannot loose half of his voters and win. If this is standard Bush is finished.

[NC_Nurse]

1. OH please, please, please

be true!

I want him to lose in a landslide!

[buycitgo]

2. yeah, but, didn't they spend the whole time after that

criticizing K/E? that's what I got out of it

[59millionmorons]

3. No

The same people who raised there hands, who said they are voting for Bush were the one's doing most of the criticizing. When a question was asked the same 3 or 4 people would answer.

[calimary]

28. Actually, yes, they did. I saw that segment. I was concerned.

Yes, on its face, most of 'em voted for bush in 2000. About half of those raised their hands and said they weren't going to do that again this time. HOWEVER, the comments were NOT encouraging. Again, this is a focus group. Only one. It was led by Frank Luntz. The self-proclaimed republi-CON pollster (another thing we should be complaining about, EN MASSE, to the media - WHY THE HELL DO WE HAVE ONLY REPUBLI-CON POLLSTERS AND NUMBER-CRUNCHERS ON THE AIR? WHY DO WE NOT HAVE ANY - REPEAT - ANY DEMOCRATIC OR LIBERAL POLLSTERS ALSO REPRESENTED?!?!?!??!?!) was, as I observed and in my own opinion, trying gently but resolutely to draw out of them all the negative comments he could possibly dig up. Attempting, I suspect, to blunt some of the luster that Edwards brought to the ticket, by focusing on his "many" negatives. Too young. What does he know? Not enough experience. Not impressed by the speech. Note, of course, they focus on the ONE speech moment where the little zapper buttons they pressed reflected a negative impression.

None of the others got a chance to speak. Which concerns me, and which makes me almost raving mad about getting all of us and our friends and ANYBODY else we can muster to write and call and complain - the anti-Kerry/Edwards people are the only ones we get to hear from. There was NOTHING presented to show what Edwards had done or said last night that was positive.

It told me we still have work to do.

[ClassWarrior]

37. Great idea, Mary!

Call, write, email - DEMAND they hire Joe Trippi, or Maxine Waters, or Mike Malloy, or some other progressive to provide analysis for the RepubliCON Natl. Coven. - someone to balance RW freakazoids Frank Lunkz and Ralph Reed and David Brooks.

Here's a start: CNN Viewer Hotline - 404-827-0234, press 8 to talk to a live operator.

[lovedems]

4. We also got a glimpse of how utterly stupid voters can be. How about the

guy who didn't believe Edwards witnessed segregation because "he looked to young". When Kurtz reminded him of his age and that Edwards looks younger then he is, the dumb voter said, "I'm still not buying it." So, what was an important point in Edwards speech, one guy doesn't buy it because of Edward's looks. :wtf:

Edited to add: the idiot who thought Bush put his life on the line just because he is President? BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! I guess he hasn't heard of the secret service.

[59millionmorons]

5. He also said

Edwards was to young to know about segregation, he must of read it in a book. Hell that's how I learned about it. It called High School. That was one of the dumbest remarks I have heard in my like. Of course this was 1 of the 5 in the crowd of 18 who said he was a Bush supporter.

[eleny]

10. I'm 57

When my family took a car trip to Washington D.C. in 1955, we saw segregation everywhere in D.C., Virginia and W. Va. So, it's preposterous to imagne that Edwards didn't grow up in a segregated North Carolina when he was a kid.

I also watched that Lutz segment and was astounded at how many Bush voters were not going to vote for him again. So was Lutz. Being a conservative pollster, he seemed genuinely worried. Of course, I was delighted and hope it put a nice load in Rove's shorts!

[xxqqqzme]

27. family vacation in the south

in '62 - State parks were closed - my dad was an early camping nut -to avoid having to segregate. A park ranger told my dad it was 2 keep out those northern agitators. Just because this is the 60th anniversary of Brown doesn't mean all that apartheid crap disappeared over night - jeez, African-Americans R still struggling for the right 2 vote in FL. A true MORAN

[onecitizen]

36. Edwards and I are about the same age..........

and I VERY MUCH remember segregation. In the south, I guarantee you he knew about it from EXPERIENCE. Sheeeesshh

[jackstraw45]

6. George Bush remains: Hero of the Stupid

"I'm still not buying it."

:eyes:

[Lex]

7. Bingo.

I was watching that focus group of "undecideds" with my SO and she said "they must be pretty stupid to be 'undecideds' at this point anyway."

And then that guy said, "I'm still not buying it."

We changed the channel after that. It was painful to see how willfully ignorant people are.

[jackstraw45]

11. It's probably ok...that person won't vote anyhow

50% of the voting-age public stays home on election day. Let's hope this guy is one of those.

[jimshoes]

16. Hero of the stupid...

[snippy]

9. Maybe the idiot was thinking of the presidential "pretzel" incident. n/t

[rumguy]

15. "I'm still not buying it"?

WTF? What did the others say to this stupid remark? That guy shoud have been thouroughly and completely bitch-slapped right there on the spot.

Was he a freeper-type or what?

[West Coast Democrat]

8. And Luntz is a self-proclaimed "Republican Pollster"...

who has a well-known history of trying to sway focus groups. Apparently he got the solid-Repubulicans to buy his BS...but the independents said no way!

[never_get_over_it]

12. Here are the questions

Do you know anyone who voted for Al Gore in 2000 who would vote for George now

Answer NO

Do you know anyone who voted for George in 2000 who will vote for Kerry this time?

Answer Yes

Gore got more votes in 2000 and won FL - so IF and that is a big IF they don't rig the election in some way or other - voting machines, stopping people from voting - some kind of attack - Kerry should win in a BIG FAT LANDSLIDE.


edited for typos

[ElementaryPenguin]

13. SHOULD and WILL - ONLY if these electronic voting machines are

Discarded! Otherwise, the corporate whore press will represent this race as extremely close - and the Busheviks will steal it again! I cannot believe we weren't able to get support to pass Rush Holt's or Bob Graham's bills banning these systems!

:puke:
:argh:
:mad:

[Arugula Latte]

14. My neighbor

voted for Bush last time. The other day I wake up and he has a Kerry sign in his front yard. Now, to not only go from Bush to Kerry but to proclaim it with a yardsign is very significant to me.

[never_get_over_it]

17. That is completely AWESOME!!!

n/t

[Ladyhawk]

26. I went from reluctantly voting for Bush in 2000...

...to voting for Kucinich in the primaries this year. I'm voting the straight Dem Party line. This creeping fascism and jingoism is scaring the hell out of me.

[never_get_over_it]

29. Now that is a conversion

Kucinich and Sharpton were by far the most liberal of the folks running - love it!!!! and THANK YOU.

[West Coast Democrat]

30. I am also struck by the lack of Nader support in my formerly.......

quite Naderite neighborhood. We're talking about a neighborhood full of KBOO listeners, and people who had Nader lawn signs in 2000. The former Naderites are now nuts about Kucinich (one even covered his VW bus with Kucinich stickers).

I have seen not one Nader sign or sticker in a very long time.

[never_get_over_it]

33. Maybe they understand the

damage that was done in 2000 voting for Nader especially in FL and NH. And maybe they see that Nader is wrong to be in this race when Dennis was in it - stating voters need a choice - well the voters had a very Nader like choice (at least as far as the issues go) in Dennis - too bad we didn't take it.

[West Coast Democrat]

35. They definitely understand the damage....

as well as the fact that Nader has too many unholy alliances with the Republicans.

[Arugula Latte]

38. Same here.

I saw a Nader sticker the other day, and then I looked closer and it said "Nader LaDuke" so the driver just hadn't taken it off from 2000.

[tnlefty]

22. I know a couple of Bush* voters who not only aren't planning to vote for

him again, but are going to vote Dem in house races because they have decided that it's dangerous to have all 3 branches of the gov. controlled by such hard rwingers.

[faithnotgreed]

18. when one says she was "duped" and another says "we were bushwhacked"....

[msmcghee]

24. Great meme - bumpersticker

I was Bushwacked in 2000
Voting Kerry/Edwards - 2004

[tom_paine]

19. Of course, that's before Bushevik Vote Fraud is counted.

[Surf Cowboy]

20. I have been saying for some time now

that Kerry will win the popular vote in a fairly close race, but he will win the election in an electoral landslide. Bush will probably get even more votes in the deep South (people listen to their preachers and talk radio pundits a bit too much back home) than he did last time, but in the swing states, he's not going to get the nut.

No way he takes Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Missou. Like has been said, we all know Bush voters who are now Kerry voters, but nobody knows a Gore voter who will go Kerry. The Bushies will get a great ignoramous turnout from the evangelicals--they will make sure to swell their numbers, but they are going to suffer at the hands of the independents.

Hell, we may even take back Virginia (home sweet home) or North Carolina.

BTW: It looked like Luntz was completely baffled and almost ready to cry. You kinda felt like he wanted to leave the focus group and run to Karl Rove to confer.

[calimary]

41. Welcome to DU! Yes, it DID look like Luntz was completely baffled

and VERY troubled. He's very sobered by what he's seen tonight. His demeanor is a LOT different, and a LOT more serious, and a LOT less smirky than it was last night after Edwards. He must REALLY have heard things from this group tonight that he found distressing, GOP hack that he is. Luntz is NOT happy tonight.

[Orangepeel]

21. I do think he's finished, but this DOES NOT prove it!

Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine.

You can't make projections from a focus group. It is NOT a statistically reliable sample. It is not random and much too small. You can get ideas and explore topics, but you can not make generalizations.

Of course, that doesn't mean that he's not finished. I think he is. But it would be completely by chance if the group of people that Luntz dragged into the studio were at all representative of the population of Cincinatti or of Ohio.

[unfrigginreal]

23. Not so fast...

that same group was measured while Edwards was giving his speech last night. There was only one, ONE, statement in the Edwards speech that drew a negative reaction, the "it won't take us three years to get the reforms in our intelligence we need to protect our country." statement.

I'll give you 3 guesses, the first two don't count, as to which clip CNN continues to play.

[kwolf68]

25. Im not counting yet

Complacency is the worst thing.

Saying things like "Bush is finished" does nothing but puts a mode of reserved relaxation in the hearts of all Americans who want this incredible disgrace as a President removed.

We have 95 days to stay vigilant, stay focused, stay passionate, and to stay angry...which will come to fruition on Nov 2.

Nov 3 we party.

[Generator]

31. Let me just say Frank Lutz sucks

and it ryhmes.

This is good news. I don't think I've ever been so angry at anyone on TV as listening to Frank Lutz the putz on PBS spewing his propaganda that has got us where we are today.

[Strawman]

32. Hey Luntz, Elton John just called....

and he wants his rug back!

PS.. Push my poll, asswipe.

[Arugula Latte]

39. Ha! Good one!

I was thinking: "God, that is some spectacularly bad hair, and it is a shade of red that does not occur in nature."

[John_Shadows_1]

34. It's Ohio. They're having an economic meltdown there...

.... so the trend may be more exaggerated. I'm from SC, and I have the feeling that Bush might even do better down here, despite the fact that John Edwards is from the state.

So the big question is whether Bush is going to get hurt in all of the swing states, and not just one which is being spanked economically like Ohio.

[ibegurpard]

40. Don't get cocky

I remember VERY WELL Luntz's focus group for Gore's convention speech in 2000. They reacted very favorably to it and I seem to remember some "off the charts" hyperbole as well. I am EXTREMELY relieved that Kerry lived up to the expections that were set for him for this speech but our work remains cut out for us.