About the $87 Billion "flip-flop"

[BayouBengal07]

Has anyone mentioned that if Bush had done his job in the first place we wouldn't have even HAD to vote for that $87 Billion?

I hear all kinds of excuses on TV, but I've never heard anyone say that.

[napi21]

1. No, but that's not the point either!

There were several votes, and the difference was based upon where the funding was comming from. That's the point that has to be driven home! There's no need to try to deny that there should have been a vote, just explain why there were several votes.

[BayouBengal07]

4. Oh, Ok.

See, I've heard that he voted against it "in protest" of the way we went to war, and all other kinds of reasons, but what was the hooplah about spending?

[nyhuskyfan]

6. There were two votes

Kerry voted for the first one. It was voted down 57-42 under the threat of a presidential veto, since it repealed some of the tax cuts for the wealthy. All Repugs voted no.

The second one had no way of paying for it -- it just added to the deficit. It had the Republican support to go through no matter what and passed 87-12. Kerry voted against it more or less on the principle that it wasn't fair not to expect people in the country to sacrifice. All Repugs voted yes.

[chelsea0011]

2. Plus, the story is Kerry voted against armor for the troops

It is laughable that people think Kerry isn't a huge supporter of the miliatry, but how much of that money was earmarked for the troops andf how much went to the troops.

[jpgray]

3. Well, Bush threatened to veto it if it was paid for

The version Kerry supported was the one that got paid for by repealing some tax cuts. Bush threatened to veto that one, and supported the one that simply threw more on the deficit. Kerry refused to vote for that one. Yet Kerry is the only called a flip-flopper on the issue.

[lapfog_1]

5. They use the quote

Rudy did it again today...

Kerry: "About that 87 billion appropriation... I voted for it before
I voted against it"

What they FAIL always to mention is that the first time the 87 Billion
was introduced, the 87 B was tied to a reduction in the Bush tax
cut of 87 Billion over the life of the tax cut, but when it was
finalized, the reduction in tax cuts was removed and Kerry voted
against it.

Kerry should say, every time, "I voted for the appropriation when
it included SHARED SACRIFICE by the American taxpayer and I ADOPTED
the CONSERVATIVE VIEW that you should PAY FOR WHAT WE SPEND"

[Bush was AWOL]

7. Could someone please post the bill

and explain what actually happened in detail. I'm close to convincing a former Bush voter to vote for Kerry, but he says he can't vote for someone who voted against funding the troops.

[emulatorloo]

14. Factcheck Debunks the Whole "Voting Against Troops" BS here:

<snip>

Announcer: And what does Kerry say now?

Kerry: I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it

Kerry was referring to a measure he co-sponsored that would have provided the $87 billion while also temporarily reversing Bush's tax cuts for those making $400,000 a year or more. That measure was rejected  57-42.

<snip>


LOTS LOTS MORE here:

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=155#

[bluedog]

8. this thread explains

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2101608

[bobbyboucher]

9. When Kerry voted FOR the 87, why didn't it pass?

Because the Repukes voted AGAINST it. They flip-flopped too. But their reason was because they wanted us to BORROW the money, adding to the debt, while Kerry wanted to rescind part of the tax-break to the wealthy to pay for it. Get it?

Just ask that simple question.

[BayouBengal07]

10. Well lets hope

He can clarify all this at the presidential debates, because so far he hasn't.

[tritsofme]

11. Kerry shot himself in the foot over this vote

He thought he had to throw red meat to the base at a time when Howard Dean was riding high.

He should have known better when he said that it would be "reckless" and "irresponsible" to vote against it.

Yes, he voted for Biden's amendment that would have paid for the funding by repealing taxcuts for the super-rich, but then Joe Biden, after his amendment failed went and he voted for the final bill.

Kerry must have known that this would come back to bite him in the general election, it was just not good politics in the long run.

I don't make excuses for any politician, this was just a stupid move, and he's going to have to live with it.

[farmbo]

12. " I voted AGAINST making our children pay for the $87 Billion...

"Then I voted FOR making the richest 1% of Americans-- those people who have benefited enormously from Bush's tax cut and who can best afford it-- pay the surcharge for Bush's war instead of our kids".

Needless to say...the "drunken sailors" who are presently running the GOP Congress, prevailed.

The $87 Billion was charged off on our credit card.

[TexasBushwhacker]

13. Not to mention $87 Billion won't be enough

The $87 billion is only supposed to last through the end of 2004, which means that if Bush loses, he leaves Kerry with a big financial mess to deal with. Are we surprised? If Bush had asked for the funding that was REALLY needed, it would have hurt him in November and we can't have that, now can we. Instead he lowballs the figure, runs up the deficit and does a crappy job of allocating the spending.