Let's be brutally honest: Sharpton did not belong on the convention podium

[liberalhistorian]

This is a man who has turned reverse race-baiting into an art form, who to this day has not apologized for his large role in the Tawana Brawley fiasco even when it was proven to be a lie and even after he damn near ruined the careers of the prosecutor and some of the investigators involved, and who represents incredibly divisive racial politics to most Americans, even fair-minded, non-racists.

His notion that all whites are automatically racist and automatically wrong in anything involving race is repugnant and insulting. His convention speech was inflammatory, incendiary, and if a white had been speaking would have been considered extremely racist. It really turned a lot of people off and made us look like something we're really not.

And this whole notion that we can't criticize him because that would automatically be racist is total bullshit. We wouldn't put up with that kind of thinking, so why is it okay in Sharpton's case? I really think the Dems in charge dropped the ball on this one. There were plenty of other Dems who would have been far better speakers and who would have represented our party far better.

[burythehatchet]

1. B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T

..and that's the nicest thing I could think of.


pfffftttttt

[LiberalManiacfromOC]

8. couldnt have said it better

[baldguy]

26. ditto

B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T
B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T
B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T
B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T
B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T

[lottie244]

33. When Bush apologizes for leading a minimum of 908 US military to their

deaths over a war based on a lie then I'll scream for an apology from Al. Faced with all the proven police brutality against Blacks in this country, I can see how Rev Al was misled and hyped the situation surrounding Tawana. Think about it. A young black girl torn and battered comes to you and claims that the was raped and brutalized by police in NY...if you are Al what would you do? This turned out not to be the truth that the young girl told Al, but all the other cases of brutality that Al fought against were true and huge awards were given to the plaintiffs. If it is true that police sodomized a black man with a night-stick, and if it were proved true that police had planted evidence on poor blacks, lied, brutalized, and tortured other poor black victims...it would not be difficult to believe the lie Tawana told.
And, I believe that Al did apologize for this incident, although he didn't get down on bended knee like some might wish.

[liberalhistorian]

47. We're not talking about Bush or

Louima or anyone else. We're talking about SHARPTON. Bringing anyone else into it is just a red herring.

[Demonaut]

91. now attack "red" herrings!!

the Tawana Brawley case is old history, hopefully he'll opologize someday but for now we need every voter

[Jawja]

38. Here! Here!

:applause:

[bpilgrim]

72. Al Sharpton: Read My Lips --------------------------------- mp3

http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/dem_convention_2004/al_sharpton.mp3

remember we are the BIG TENT party :bounce: leave RW 'talking points' at the door ;->

peace

[Dookus]

2. He belonged there

just fine, thank you. He did very well, too.

[CaTeacher]

122. and he said things that

no one else had the guts to say. And he did it with eloquence and style. And his speech will be remembered for a long time.

[freetobegay]

3. I would have been pissed if he had not been there!

How's that for being "brutally honest"?

ON EDIT: & this is comming from a middle aged pot bellied white guy!

[ET Awful]

4. Whatever. . . . Sharpton definitely belonged and his speech was excellent.

n/t

[redstateblues]

99. I Always Thought He Was A Buffoon- But he Rocked Last Night!!!

[WillyT]

5. Double BULLSHIT !!!

:wtf:

[burythehatchet]

don't make me go TRIPLE bullshit on ya

[0007]

61. Triple bullshit!

[SoDesuKa]

6. I Voted For Sharpton

I voted for Al Sharpton in the Democratic primary. He's a great leader.

[imax2268]

7. I didn't agree with

his tone part of the time...and yes I agree about the whole Tawana Brawley thing...

but he does have a base of supporters...many people do listen to what he has to say and will follow him in support of John Kerry...

[candy331]

41. Kennedy and Chappaquiddick, do blacks continue to bring

that up every time he speaks? Seems like some people hide behind Tawanna Brawley for ulterior motives since they don't bring it up every time Kennedy speaks. Seems some genuinely learn to forgive and go on and some continue to show their "true colors" Think about it!

[vi5]

9. He belonged there as a primary candidated....BUT...

I can't say I completely disagree with you about the guy. Maybe being from the NY/NJ area I've known about him for longer.

And everyone makes mistakes so I don't hold stuff he's done against them. But by the same token when he has been wrong (Tawana Brawley being the main example) he hasn't expressed a lot of contrition.

But the fact is that he has his followers and people who support him. If he seals the deal with even some of them as far as voting for Kerry then he belonged there. Both as a former candidate and as a supporter of the nominee.

[liberalhistorian]

25. Thanks for being the island in the storm, lol!

I know he has followers, but so do a lot of other politicians. Do we overlook who he really is just to get votes? And I wonder if we really realize how it looked to a lot of swing voters and independents and moderates, the very people we need. I guarantee you he turned people off. And the fact that he poses for holy pictures while refusing to show any remorse at all for his role in the Tawana Brawley hoax, and for what that did to the careers and reputations of many of those involved whom he accused of all kinds of evil and nasty things, and played the race card horribly, is really disgusting.

[jdj]

36. Has the Tawana Bradley affair hurt anyone more than

Sharpton in the long term? I don't know. I am sick of hearing about the Tawana Bradley case everytime someone mentions Al Sharpton. Tawana Bradleys turn up dead in alleys every day in this country and no one cares, one poet I read has a line in one of her poems where she comments after hearing about a rape or murder that "the girls this happened to have to be white, because this stuff happens to the rest of us all the time and no one gives a damn."

I feel like bringing up the Tawana Bradley case every time Sharpton's name is mentioned is the same as bringing up Monica everytime Clinton's name comes up.

Al Sharpton definitely saved the primary with his wit, he made the forums watchable. The truth is this party desperately needs more personalities like Sharpton, because we are not hateful enough to grab attention based on bigotry and divisiveness like republicans do, so if we had a hundred Sharptons winging out one-liners all the time like he does we'd have the election in a bag.

[liberalhistorian]

51. First of all, it's BRAWLEY, not Bradley.

And it's so much more than that. The way he plays the race card is especially offensive. He is vitriolic and divisive and that is the way he's seen by the majority of Americans, whether you want to realize that or not.

And that in no way means that I don't agree that black victims are often given far less attention and concern than whites.

[maryallen]

98. Memorized the Republican talking points ...

did you?

[tishaLA]

123. I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with this

"race card" thing. Is that what it's called when an unashamed black man dares to talk about race and upsets people in power? When he holds people accountable in Bensonhurst after Yusef Hawkins' murder? When he has the temerity to think that police would do well by citizens if they didn't kill them? Or is it when someone works tirelessly to increase voter registration and encourages youth participation in the political process?

The "majority of Americans," which might be the same majority opposed to things like same-sex marriage, may not like him--I have reservations about him--but so what? He's spent more time working for justice than virtually any of us. Sometimes that rankles people who dislike uppity negroes.

[msanthrope]

125. Yes, Stephen Pagones was hurt more than Rev. Sharpton, or Tawana.

I knew Tawana's family. Her mother worked very closely with my father at IBM.

The saddest thing about the whole Tawana affair was that Sharpton and his ilk knew from fairly early on that Tawana had made everything up. They pushed the point for political gain.

Stephen Pagones was falsely accused of being a rapist, and his life has been ruined. Where is justice for him?

Sharpton has done a good job rehabilitating himself, but there's a reason why New Yorkers will never elect him dog catcher. No New Yorker can forget his behavior during Tawana--or his execrable behavior towards the Central Park rape victim. I remember Sharpton yelling her name to the New York press. I remember his supporters chanting her name and address on the courthouse steps.

I remember good old Al long before he cleaned himself up, but the stench remains.

[sendero]

150. Ya know......

..... it takes a stunning amount of naivete to think the motives of anyone in a Presidential race are pure. They are all in it for their egos, yes even Dennis and Dean. We are talking a permanent place in history here, what would you do for that?

People need to concentrate more on what a man/woman does, not necessarily why they do it. There are a few right-wing memes I actually believe, and the idea that everyone does everything in some way to satisfy themselves is beyond any reasonable dispute.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

121. Yeah and NYC fell all over itself apologizing to Mrs Diallo

[Not Me]

10. I am a white man, and I fully endorse what Rev. Sharpton said.

[Cha]

17. Of course, he belonged there!

Al spoke to those that need to come into the Party and Vote!

[never_get_over_it]

11. He was a Presidential candidate

and he belonged there and he was great - he represented alot of people in that hall and out here in America -

[liberalhistorian]

32. I'm afraid he doesn't represent

nearly as many people in America as you think he does, nor should he.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

80. That's exactly how my results came out! eom

[napi21]

88. I do think he belonged there, and I think he did the right thing

in answering shrub's question. I guess the only thing I think he should have done was shorten his submitted speech by enough time to allow him to do that within the alotted time. The entire convention was presented very well, and every speaker was alotted a certain amount of time. Some co-ordinators adjusted things, and all did work out well, but to me, I think the most important thing is to get a Dem back in the WH. Trying to stay within the timeframe makes the whole presentation work better.

[RetroLounge]

103. and apparently neither do you

sucks, don't it?

RL

[southlandshari]

118. Watch tonight's episode of "The Daily Show"

for a humorous AND very illuminating look at how "few" of our delegates seemed to think Sharpton's words represented their views. You might be surprised.

[Chovexani]

12. Where's Wally and his wedgies when we need them?

Horse. Beaten. Dead.

[r_u_stuck2]

13. Triple Bull*

Sharpton is not a dummy. I trust him more than B*

[CaTeacher]

20. Sharpton is a fantastic politician.

I would have been THRILLED if he had of gotten the Democratic nomination. The party should embrace him and be proud of him. He is a great orator and the people love him.

[RoyGBiv]

14. Mule Fritters!!!

There are three speeches I've recorded that I've watched at least three times. His was one of them.

He belonged there.

[Cha]

19. That's right, Rainbow!

:D

[Gold Metal Flake]

24. I support Mule Fritters as Thumping Good Phrase of the night!

Bully, bully!

[RoyGBiv]

30. Sherm...

I channel Sherman Potter sometimes. :-)

[RetroLounge]

105. Mule Fritters!!!"

and Horse Hockey too!

Love that Sherm...

RL

[Neshanic]

15. Hate to do it, but like the others, I call bullshit. I LOVED IT!

[newyorican]

16. I have to agree....

those sentiments are bullshit. Just being brutally honest.

[Lex]

18. You said

"His notion that all whites are automatically racist"

That's just a damned LIE.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

21. While I respect your opinion...

I thought that Sharpton's speech was a big part of what alot of dems think-including this very white girl. He nailed the questions and answers for Bush and the reasons for him begging for votes. He treaded into territory where most dems are afraid of going. All of our votes are sacred. Didn't you see how much that one speech touched the delegates? There's an audience for that truth!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

22. I'll say it again: B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T

Where did you get this idea that he believes that all whites are automatically racist adn wrong in anything involving race? Seriously, when did he EVER say that?

You know why I was glad he was up there? He said things that NEEDED TO BE SAID. Especially to bush and his remarks to the Urban League.

You go Al.

[tabasco]

23. Disagree.

Sharpton has redeemed himself above and beyond any mistakes he made. He stood up there last night and praised a lot of white folks.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mellowinman]

28. Utter Horseshit.

WTF?

[Sugarbleus]

29. Thbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb BS!

[Lori Price CLG]

31. Actually, all Dem candidates got to speak, so it's fair for him to, BUT...

bear in mind that Al Sharpton accepted $270 thousand (a "loan") from Roger Stone, the Reichwing operative of the Bush regime.

More here on Sharpton, a must-read:

'The Problem With Al Sharpton,' (The Black Commentator) Feb 5, 2004
http://www.blackcommentator.com/76/76_cover_sharpton.html

Here is a little snippet, from above:
"The Sharpton campaign's descent into what looked like madness became
apparent shortly after the resignations of Jesse Jackson family confidant Frank Watkins and South Carolina coordinator Kevin Gray, September 30. We don't know what precipitated their exits, but Roger Stone and his Republicans moved right in. In late October, when it became clear that Chicago Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. would endorse Howard Dean, Sharpton went on the attack, shedding the steady, even statesmanlike persona he had cultivated in the previous months of campaigning. We described the spectacle in the November 13 Cover Story, 'Al Sharpton's Political-Emotional Breakdown...'"

Lori Price
http://www.legitgov.org/

[liberalhistorian]

34. THANK YOU LORI!

This is the kind of thing I've been trying to get across, without much success obviously. I guess there are just some sacred cows on here that cannot be touched.

[Lori Price CLG]

40. Sharpton attacked Howard Dean with a vengeance. Why?

To what end? To 'take down' the most liberal candidate that had the greatest chance of being nominated, so that we got a more moderate candidate?

Sharpton has shown a history of somehow, some way, helping the Reichwing. He is an intelligent man, and a great speaker... but, when all is said and done... I wonder for whom he really works?

Lori Price
http://www.legitgov.org/

[hippywife]

73. That's funny!

It proves once again how stupid they actually are because they sure didn't get their money's worth. The sniping between Gep and Dean in Iowa, in addition to the media, and an even measure of his own egotism are what took Dean down.

[never_get_over_it]

77. The media

completely took down Dean - he made a remark about the FCC and in less than two weeks he was finished....

[Ripley]

148. LOL! Dean's EGO took him down????

Yeah, I guess no other guy running for President has an ego?

I hope you people are happy with the shit Kerry will give us. Same old.

[CaTeacher]

35. Sharpton is one of the strongest voices that we have

in the Democratic party. I have played his speech over and over (enjoying every word). And I don't see anything that the Democratic party should be ashamed of.

[liberalhistorian]

37. Then you obviously don't

know the real Sharpton too well, then, or how most of the rest of the country, even a lot of Dems, view him.

[Dob Bole]

39. Quadruple Bullshit! From another liberal historian...

Al Sharpton is the best political speaker today- and funny. Bill Clinton is the only person I can think of that I enjoy listening to more.

[Serenades]

42. So

If a girl comes to you beat up, ripped up, and bloody and says to you that she was raped you would say "Bullshit. No you weren't?" People don't like Al because he tells it like it is without prejudice or blind loyalty to a party and they call him an uppity nigga which is something that a lot of whites do not like including democrats.

[liberalhistorian]

44. The whole Tawana Brawley

incident was a hoax and Sharpton has done a masterful PR job with the whole thing.

[tishaLA]

124. So masterful, in fact,

that nobody believes it.

[rocktivity]

43. All the Democrats who ran for president got to speak

Think of how racist Kerry would have looked if he'd been eliminated--not to mention how he would have reacted.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Cleita]

45. Sharpton is part of our history whether you like him or not

and saying he shouldn't speak what's on his mind is censorship. He was part of the process of how we got to where things are today. You can't deny that reality. He will pass into history but at least no one told him he couldn't have his fifteen minutes.

[Fatima]

46. I thought he gave a great speech

you ever lie about anything?

[CaTeacher]

50. I just can't believe that the people here at DU

treat Sharpton like this. This is a Democratic board folks. I never expected to see the people here using all these Right Wing talking points to smear one OF OUR OWN.

[mellowinman]

52. Anyone trashing Sharpton

Should be ashamed of themselves.

[liberalhistorian]

55. Ummm............

In case you haven't noticed, I'm basically getting my ass handed to me on this thread so I wouldn't exactly say that people are parroting "right-wing talking points." I guess there are some sacred cows that just can't be touched.

[IronLionZion]

48. Let's ride this donkey as far as it will take us

hehe!

Yeah I know Sharpton is a crook, but many political leaders are. That doesn't mean his message is bunk. I enjoyed his speech.

The Republicans have been trying to by my vote for years but it's not for sale damnit! The Democrats have EARNED it this time.

[umtalal]

49. The Donkey Belongs to Sharpton and He is Riding it. n/t

[Selwynn]

53. I have a thread for you.... :)

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalhistorian]

58. I already took the garbage

out last night and I've lived in the same town for thirty years, so it'd be a little hard for me to get lost. :evilgrin:

[livinginphotographs]

56. Um....Kerry voted for the IWR and the Patriot Act.

So we're supposed to forgive him and not Sharpton?

Sharpton still believes Brawley. I can respect the man because he truly believes what he says, unlike a lot of politicians. And his speech was, to put it bluntly, fucking awesome. I agree with him 100% on all the issues, and I wish I could've voted for him in the primaries.

He belongs on the podium and I wish the Democratic Party would listen to him more often. I think it's safe to say that he, Clinton, Obama, and Kerry, gave the best speeches of the convention.

[AirAmFan]

57. This kind of smear belongs on lucianne or freerepublic, not on DU!

[liberalhistorian]

62. Smear? Really?

So you're all for free speech unless it's something you disagree with? Just because someone claims to be a Dem doesn't mean he's always pure and holy.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[r_u_stuck2]

67. So the number of posts is the pass

Pardon the fuck out of me. The number of posts is bullshit. I am more of a democrat than you will ever be. If the fucking moderators want to kick me off the board for this then so be it.

The number of posts means nothing. The quality of the discussion and the quality of the ideas means all.

[liberalhistorian]

69. Then maybe you should go

back and read many of my thousands of posts where you can see I'm as much of a Dem as anyone else on this board and where I've contributed more than enough of my share of "quality" discussion which, btw, does NOT mean being in lockstep with groupthink.

[r_u_stuck2]

71. I do not care to read what you think

I can think for myself

[liberalhistorian]

76. Ah, I see. One of those

don't-give-me-the-facts-my-mind-is-made-up people. Got it. Well, guess what? I can think for myself, too, and I'm not always in lockstep with groupthink.

[dumpster_baby]

63. I agree. Sharpton == Crook n/t

[Andromeda]

65. Most people have moved on since the

Tawana Brawley incident. Al Sharpton has done more good than most black leaders by effectively speaking out against this administration and doing it with humor.

He's entertaining and fun and the primaries would have been dull without him. He has many followers and it would have been in bad taste to exclude him from speaking at the convention.

[Wednesdays]

66. I'm sure whatever he says is not going to threaten me

So, let him speak.

[G_j]

68. complete BS

[hippywife]

70. I guess by your standard

a repentent KKK member like Byrd has no business speaking on the floor of the Senate against the abuses of the current resident.

I echo the sentiment....BULLSHIT!!

[truth2power]

78. I think his speech was great. And, yes, he belonged there.

[qanda]

79. Somebody is always willing to pee in the corn flakes

Save it for somebody who cares to hear this tripe, they can be found here: www.freerepublic.com

[Gregorian]

81. Sharpton WAS the convention. The pinnacle of it all.

For my little adorable unassuming self. If I don't say so.


:0Þ

[latebloomer]

82. How was his speech "inflammatory, incendiary. . .

and extremely racist"?!?

I thought it was beautiful and it moved me to tears.

[stavka]

83. Sharpton was the second best speech of the convention!

I didn't like him at all until this last couple of years, but I wish he was going to be our President over Kerry, - though I know that could never happen.

I supported Clark - he dropped out

I supported Edwards - he dropped out

Dennis had no better chance than Sharpton

So now I support Kerry/Edwards

[Ellen Forradalom]

84. Did we hear the same speech?

I really appreciated the historical sweep in his speech, and his answers to Bush's question to the Urban League, "What has the Democratic Party done for you?" And in light of the Florida fiasco of 2000, it was vitally important to have someone up there able to express just how important the vote is to black Americans. Only Al was able to drive that point home.

[Roy]

129. Good post, but.....

That is why the original poster wants to trash him (Sharpton).

He surely couldn't realistically still be eating Brawley stew after all these years, and the amazing transformation of Al.

Sharpton could apologize on his knees in the middle of the busiest highway in the country at the heighth of rush hour. s/he would still say that not quite enough and demand more.

Transparency is just so.... so... transparent!

[Ellen Forradalom]

146. Sharpton is a difficult political persona, no doubt about it

Sharpton can be a demagogue and an opportunist. Both were on full display during the Brawley incident. That's the aspect of Sharpton that troubled me when he first announced his candidacy. However, since then I have been impressed by his focus and self-discipline. He has done a great job representing his constituency, keeping the Party on its toes, and energizing us.

[TexasBushwhacker]

85. It would be difficult to not include him

since they included all the other Democratic candidates. I will say this though, I have far more respect for Carol Moseley Braun or Barack Obama. Sharpton has never held public office, although he's run in primaries (for the Senate and for Mayor of NYC). He seems unwilling to start at the bottom and work his way up. Why doesn't he run to be the representative for a Congressional district, or even for the NY State Senate? Why doesn't he run for city council? The same can be said for Jesse Jackson. Why this insistence on starting at the top? I just don't get it.

[liberalhistorian]

92. He won't start at the

bottom and work his way up because to him it's all about power and attention, that's all. Unlike Carol Moseley Broun and Obama. Obama is a MUCH MUCH BETTER representative of Dems than Sharpton. Now, his speech I could listen to over and over again.

[bossfish]

107. But he knew he couldn't win...

Yes, in some respects Sharpton's campaign was a vanity campaign.

Like Jesse, he had things to say and took the opportunity to say them on a big stage.

Tawana Brawley was in 1987...

What has happened since then?

Iran-Contra...

Bush was "born again"

there's a couple

[union_maid]

86. He gave one of the best speeches at the convention

Votes paid for by the blood of martyrs. It's the truth, and it's never been a more important truth than it is now. Reverend Al could always orate, no matter what your opinion of him otherwise. What he said was called for, and important and if there's any justice in the world, will be quoted for years to come. I wouldn't vote for him either, but he's been an addition to the entire process.

[supernova]

87. Let's be brutally honest

your naivete about racial matters is showing, LH.

Most people have forgiven Al for the Tawana Brawley incident. That was 10-12 or more years ago. Let it go already.

And just so you know, Rev Al is many many more times qualitfied to speak about racial matters than you or I will ever be.

He belonged right where he was. He should be saying the things he says. If you are uncomfortable with that, perhaps you should look at your own racial attitudes.

[69KV]

89. Has Al Sharpton ever actually said this?

His notion that all whites are automatically racist and automatically wrong in anything involving race is repugnant and insulting.

When has he ever said this? References, please.

[DrWeird]

100. Of course not.

Funny how somebody who complains about Sharpton supporting a lie and "reverse race-baiting" has to include in their post outright lies and race baiting.

I guess that's what liberalhistorian meant by "brutally honest," i.e. be brutal to honesty.

[JanMichael]

90. Wow. Amazing, truly amazing. No comment though.

Enough people have dogged this dog of a post down.

[against all enemies]

93. You're right, By the way , how's the weather in Mississippi.

[liberalhistorian]

97. I'm in Ohio, not MS,

and disagreeing with a member of a particular race does not make you racist anymore than disagreeing with a particular woman makes you a misogynist or disagreeing with a particular homosexual makes you anti-gay. I loved Obama's speech, btw, so in your eyes does that make me a "racist" only some of the time?

[WI_DEM]

94. He got more votes than some of the other also-rans

who also had the opportunity to speak to the convention, so he not only deserved to speak to the convention on behalf of his supporters but he earned the right to.

[West Coast Democrat]

95. Gawd! I LOVE AL SHARPTON!!

He was one of the top 5 speakers of the convention...and the crowd loved him too!

[bvar22]

96. Division & Exclusion...Division & Exclusion...Division & Exclusion

You know, maybe he's right.

Some folks just aren't good enough or aren't the right kind of people. The Democratic Party is too big a tent. We can't let just anybody into the club.



Al rocks, and speaks to the hearts of all people.

[ConsAreLiars]

101. "liberalhistorian" -- ???? Ha!

It is pretty obvious that Democrats across the board at the convention loved every word he said. Where you got such a fraudulent and racist set of talking points, and why you want so badly to demonize a progressive voice and divide the party base is your secret, I guess.

[DrWeird]

102. Not really secret.

But don't take my word for it, just use the search function when it comes back.

[ConsAreLiars]

127. Yeah,

I noticed that without the search function. Not "liberal," no knowledge of history, then what? Not hard to guess.

[WinterStorm]

104. Sharpton was running for the presidency

He had every right to be on that stage.

[Pithlet]

106. I don't agree.

I usually agree with most of what you say here at DU, but I think he did have a place here as an ex-candidate, and I thought his speech was great. I think he nailed Bush without being over the top. I think the party needs people like him, who aren't afraid to say what needs to be said. I think if he would have been excluded, that would have sent a horrible message, and Bush would have been able to gloat that he was right.

[RetroLounge]

108. Total and utter Bullshit

Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit

Did I mention your post is BS?

RL

[Ripley]

109. Have to disagree...

He spoke the truth about a few issues, in fact he began his speech by directly responding to W's "black" talk recently.

Straight talking...I like that.

He was one of the 9(?) that ran as candidates...why would he be the only one left out? Although I didn't see Gen. Clark...but, I guess I missed his speech.

[sonias]

110. Another support vote for Al Sharpton

He had every right to be there and I loved his speech. And as many have pointed out that T.B. mistake is old news. It's time to move on. I think he was right to say that slaves never got their reparations of 40 acres or their mules. If you want to bring up old mistakes you can hang that on us all collectively.

Sonia

[slutticus]

135. "So we decided...

....we'd ride this donkey as far as it would take us!"

That was one of my favorite moments!

Hi Sonias! :hi:

[nightperson]

111. I'll admit I haven't seen Al's convention speech,

and in return can some people admit that they're not too familiar with Sharpton?

Ever wonder why he did so terribly on his home turf? Why the Village Voice has so many articles slamming him? Maybe I missed something, but this is the traditional liberal view of Sharpton, from his home turf: 1 2

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

120. Would that be the same Village Voice that was advertising the RNC

and slamming Kerry's Viet Nam service? The same Village Voice that regularly publishes Nat Hentoff's neo-con rants?

[Cookie wookie]

112. I was covered in tears during his speech

with both Sharpton and Kucinich's speeches. They spoke from deep conviction and from the heart.

The Brawley incident -- no matter whether he was mislead at that time or not, Rev Sharpton was working and speaking out from his good heart and soul then as he did at the convention. His intent was good. He has stood up for his race during his entire public life and that makes OUR country a better place, because his race has needed outspoken and fierce freedom fighters.

I cried not only because of the truth he spoke so eloquently, but also because I could only imagine what it took for him to say it, to throw his support behind Kerry/Edwards. Same for Kucinich. These men are the brightest and bravest. For men to join forces with the Kerry campaign, rather than to stand aloof when well they could have, took great strength of character. Most especially Rev. Sharpton. We are talking about decades of battles within the Democratic Party, and great divisiveness that I've seen and known since the sixties and early 70s during the fight for civil rights and when America's cities were burning.

I'd rate his speech as certainly one of the best if not the best (tied with Teresa Kerry) then Ted Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, Barach Obama, and Dennis Kucinich.

Although I was supporting Kerry/Edwards, I had worked for the Dean campaign and was an ABB. But tonight after hearing all the testimonials about Kerry, that just couldn't have been faked, and hearing his speech, I was sold on him. His speech was masterful and inspiring.

I might add that his endorsement of Kerry was important for the African American vote, which if we'll be honest could be the most powerful force in determining the outcome of the election.

[Cat Atomic]

113. Pfft- yeah sure- whatever. I guess we need more McAuliffe's

talking up there, huh?

[Cookie wookie]

114. Sharpton's speech was an olive branch

extended to the Democratic Party with an open hand, an example of forgiveness and faith in something better, at a time when all of us must join together to defeat the forces of the right wing fascists who hold such terrible power over the minds and hearts of American people, who are holding the world hostage through the force of their brutal and barbaric wills, and who will stop at nothing to gain the power and satiate their greed.

[sundog]

115. Bullshit again -- His was my favorite speech, very heartfelt, and

as one other poster noted, he touched topics that none of the other speakers would. He reached a lot of people. Think you're way off, sorry.:thumbsdown:

[LoZoccolo]

116. He's an example that the media sucks on racial issues.

Why? Because not many people could name African-American members of Congress, or the president of the NAACP, but just about everyone knows Sharpton. Why? Because the media will pretty much only give you a platform on civil rights issues if you're a race-baiter with little to no credibility. Very little mention is made of the solid, documented details of the systematic forces which continue to keep African-Americans at a disadvantage such as the inequity in school funding, housing discrimination, job discrimination, the public's gross misperceptions about affirmative action and the like, the real problems which continue to occupy the rank-and-file civil rights activists, but as soon as this one guy wants to make a disingenuous argument - while he's taking talking points from a Republican operative! - about some comment Dean made about the confederate flag, or his cabinet appointments, that everyone already knows is bullshit, people talk about it for a week.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

117. I couldn't disagree with you more

This is a man who has turned reverse race-baiting into an art form, who to this day has not apologized for his large role in the Tawana Brawley fiasco even when it was proven to be a lie and even after he damn near ruined the careers of the prosecutor and some of the investigators involved, and who represents incredibly divisive racial politics to most Americans, even fair-minded, non-racists.

There is no such thing as reverse race baiting or reverse racism. His only role was that of an advocate in a case that turned out poorly. That he was mistaken is no different than the thousands of black people behind bars where the people that identified them were mistaken. They rarely get an apology or even a fair settlement when their LIVES are ruined. I really don't see how he represents incredibly divisive racial politics when in fact the scales REMAIN tipped after all these years. It's already been proven in a study as recently as last year that a felon has an easier time being considered for a job than a person who SOUNDS black over the phone.

His notion that all whites are automatically racist and automatically wrong in anything involving race is repugnant and insulting. His convention speech was inflammatory, incendiary, and if a white had been speaking would have been considered extremely racist. It really turned a lot of people off and made us look like something we're really not.

I think that is your listening, that is not the Rev's speaking..but you tend to prove his point. There was nothing he said that alienated me as a white person and I wholeheartedly concur with every word he spoke last night. He did not say a THING about WHITEY..he spoke only to the divisive politics that Republicans have played by getting white people to think that racial equality TAKES AWAY something THEY THINK THEY are entitled to via their white privilege.


And this whole notion that we can't criticize him because that would automatically be racist is total bullshit. We wouldn't put up with that kind of thinking, so why is it okay in Sharpton's case? I really think the Dems in charge dropped the ball on this one. There were plenty of other Dems who would have been far better speakers and who would have represented our party far better.

The only thing really incendiary is your vitriol towards him for a mistake anyone could make i.e. taking a young black woman's word over one of the most brutal paramilitary style police forces in the United States...ask Amadou Diallo's mom.

BTW..I do think your cheap shots at him are rooted in racism whether you realize it or not...it's awfully funny that YOU THINK YOU should determine what voice black people can have and that it must appeal to you and your white sensibilities in order to be acceptable.

You wanted brutal honesty..you got it.

[Cookie wookie]

119. And Tawana Brawley

happened 17 years ago!

[dmr]

132. Thanks, NSMA - now a few words of my own.

We, the Democratic Party, are into inclusion. To exclude Sharpton for fear that it would turn off the white vote then that's too damn bad, it speaks volumes about them, not Al and not the Democrats.

Why shouldn't a man speak up for the injustices made toward the black race? Why shouldn't a man tell blacks they are included? They are! We care. I care. They are included in our plan for a better America!

We needed Al's voice. We needed to shout out loud and clear about racial injustices throughout our history. We needed to shout out loud and clear the injustices during the last presidential election. If we don't now, then when will we? When will we begin to heal? Shall we just sweep it under the rug like nothing has ever happened?

Each and every word he spoke, I cheered. I became emotional. I even cried.

We can't continue to hide behind the fear of what some white guy will think. We need to move beyond that. One of the themes of this convention was that the divisions have to stop. We are one country. We are in this together. We will no longer accept divisions. We will no longer keep the black men and women from exercising their Constitutional right to vote.

So freakin' what if Al has a past. Everyone does. Sweet, little old lady me has a past. So freakin' what! Why must we continuously harp on these things? The worse offenders are sitting right now in the White House, let Al call them on the carpet.

To consider it wrong that he speak to all of us at our convention is ludicrous. I hope Al continues to shout for as long as he is able, and if it makes a few white men uncomfortable, so freakin' what!

[umass1993]

126. Al is a rock star

he may be a demagogue, but he is a damn genius at the podium.

Everyone gushes at Edwards speaking ability, but Al is amazing.

Plus, he brings up issues that others avoid.

For example, he brings up a right to vote amendment. the fact that many felons cannot vote is a national shame. As long as this exists, we are a meritocracy rather than a democracy. And by the way, abuse of this policy allowed Bush to become president.

[msanthrope]

128. To all the posters who are claiming that Tawana Brawley was long ago....

Well, what about Stephen Pagones?

You know, the guy Sharpton accused, falsely, of raping Tawana Brawley?

The guy that Sharpton had to pay for defaming him?

Ummmm... I don't know how many of you are New Yorkers, but as I have posted before, there is a reason that Sharpton can't get elected dog catcher in that town.

And what about how he and his followers harassed the Central Park rape victim? I mean, here is this poor woman, who doesn't even remember being attacked, who nearly died, who accused no one, and Sharpton is yelling her name and address to the press? Accusing her of being a drug addict?

Are we all just supposed to forget that?

Right. I guess we are.

[bossfish]

130. Weren't some of the Central Park guys exonerated?

[msanthrope]

131. Sure, but how does that exonerate Al for his disgusting actions?

The original defendants were exonerated when the DNA left on the victim matched a serial rapist.

Point is that the Central Park rape victim could never remember the attack. She accused no one, never identified anyone. She was still lying in a coma when the Central park 5 were arrested, and when Sharpton began to smear her, saying that she was a junkie, trolling the Park for a fix.

Later, at the trial for the Central Park 5, Sharpton and his ilk shouted her name and address from the courthouse steps. How do you justify that?

Al Sharpton picked on a rape victim. Al Sharpton also helped Tawana Brawley further her hoax.

As I've written before, there's a reason that the people who know him best, the people of the City of New York, won't even elect him dog catcher.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

138. You are stretching to say he HELPED Brawley further her hoax

there is NO evidence that HE was complicit in her hoax...he was NO MORE complicit in her "hoax" than the prosecutor was in the CP rape victim's hoax (which was NOT a hoax on her part at all but calls for a pound of black flesh instead of genuine investigative work).

Sharpton was used and had GOOD cause to question the NYPD...and the case you reference in which several young men went to jail for a crime they did not commit is EXACTLY why Sharpton SHOULD be exonerated. Their proscution at the calls of a gang of people hungry to solve a crime without evidence is exactly WHY the AA community still requires LOUD activists eager to stick their necks out.

[msanthrope]

140. You are wrong....

First of all, a civil jury found that yes, Sharpton did in fact further Brawley with her hoax, and that's why Al had to pay Steven Pagones. He was found liable for slander, and eventually the judgment reached $87,000.

Second, the fact that the NYPD did a horrible job DOES NOT JUSTIFY AL SHARPTON attacking the rape victim herself. May I remind you that that woman had her skull bashed in, and was in a COMA when Al began smearing her.

The rape victim never accused the boys. But Al had no problem yelling her name and address from the courthouse steps. He had no problem publically calling her a whore. He had no problem denying that she was even hurt.

By your reckoning, because the NYPD did the wrong thing, that gives Sharpton the right to attack the victim? Al was right to do what he did?

Please.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

143. First show me where he called her a whore or did that as I have

not ever heard of that.

Second, please post the facts of the case on the slander issue..the fact that the jury (white?) found slander does not mean they FOUND he furthered her in a hoax but I will gladly concede the point if you post the case itself..not someone else's interpretation of it.

Finally, of course no one should EVER blame the victim in a rape case and from what I recall the victim felt horrible that the wrong people were accused and sentenced for her rape.

[msanthrope]

152. here's the cases....

In 1988, a criminal grand jury was convened in Dutchess County. 6 months, 180 witnesses and 6,000 pages later, the grand jury issued a report calling Brawley's claims a hoax.

1998, Steven Pagones, one of the accused men, finally won a civil judgment against these hoaxers. FYI, the jury was 4 whites, 2 blacks.

Here is a link to the order of the court, in the civil trial:

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/press/old_keep/brawley.ht...

Note that the civil court references the criminal grand jury that met, called, 180 witnesses, and never found one shred of evidence that Brawley was raped. After all, by the end she claimed that she had been kept for four days by six men, who repeatedly raped and sodomized her. There was never any recovery of any physical evidence (sperm, dna, etc...), nor any observable sign of trauma to her genitalia. There were two witnesses who saw her climb into the trash bag she was found in, and plenty of evidence that good old Tawana simply made this up to cover the fact that she had been out partying for a few days, in an apartment that her family had just moved out of.

Read this whole order, and then do a google search on 'pagones sharpton'. FYI, the Amsterdam News is one of those charming publications that saw fit to print the Central Parks rape victim's name and street address.

As for the Central Park Jogger case, I refer you to this link (note the remarks about 'damage'.)

http://www.nationalreview.com/20Mar00/nordlinger032000....

In the spring of 1989, the Central Park “wilding” occurred. That was the monstrous rape and beating of a young white woman, known to most of the world as “the jogger.” The hatred heaped on her by Sharpton and his claque is almost impossible to fathom, and wrenching to review. Sharpton insisted-against all evidence-that the attackers were innocent. They were, he said, modern Scottsboro Boys, trapped in “a fit of racial hysteria.” Unspeakably, he and his people charged that the victim’s own boyfriend had raped and beaten her to the point of death. Outside the courthouse, they chanted, “The boyfriend did it! The boyfriend did it!” They denounced the victim as “Whore!” They screamed her name, over and over (because most publications refused to print it, though several black-owned ones did). Sharpton brought Tawana Brawley to the trial one day, to show her, he said, the difference between white justice and black justice. He arranged for her to meet the jogger’s attackers, whom she greeted with comradely warmth. In another of his publicity stunts, he appealed for a psychiatrist to examine the victim. “It doesn’t even have to be a black psychiatrist,” he said, generously. He added: “We’re not endorsing the damage to the girl — if there was this damage.”
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the most monstrous, hateful example of racism....

And the New York Times also as an excellent archive on the case, but you will have to pay for it.

Anybody in New York in 1990 can well remember Sharpton standing outside both Manhattan trial, and him and his supporters chanting for the nightly news casts. I, in fact, remember him on the local nightly news making his demand about the psychiatrist.

I suggest to you that this why Al can't get elected in New York: those who know him best won't elect him dog catcher.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

137. ALL of them were exonerated IIRC

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

136. But the Central Park Rape victim was not raped by those seven men

that sat in jail and the DA relented and dropped the charges...no? Are we all supposed to forget that too?

[Donkeyboy75]

141. No. But do we say that the end justified the means?

Was it OK to chant the name of the victim on the court steps? I don't think a woman who suffered through rape should have to pay for the lazy and racist antics of the NYPD.

[msanthrope]

144. How does the DA doing the wrong thing justify Sharpton's actions?

Are you saying that because the NYPD accused the wrong people, Al Sharpton should be given a pass?

Al Sharpton started his smear campaign against the Central Park rape victim before she even woke up from her coma. She never accused anyone because she can't remember the attack at all.

Al Sharpton and his followers harassed and defamed her, constantly. Are you saying that that is okay because of the NYPD's mistakes?

Who in the hell is Al Sharpton to go harassing anyone? Especially a rape victim!!

Like I've posted before, the people of the City of New York haven't seen fit to elect this loser dog catcher. There's a reason.

[REP]

133. Looks Like Someone Got The RNC/Fox Talking Points Memo!

This post was supposed to be satrical, right? Am I missing something?

[Kipepeo]

134. I thought it was the best speech of the whole convention

"Let's be brutally honest:" I am glad he got to speak. And you don't speak for "we" or "us."

Sharpton's speech represents me a hellluva lot more than your post does.

[Swamp Rat]

139. How do you feel about Robert C. Byrd?

Personally I love him, but I didn't expect him to speak because he was not a presidential candidate. Are you saying that they should have purposefully omitted Sharpton? How do you reconcile this with the concept of an inclusive political party?

I can see that you pissed off a lot of DUers with this post. My first reaction was to admonish you too, but you already had your "ass handed" to you. Good for you and your opinion, but I do question the posting of this thread TONIGHT. Couldn't you wait until tomorrow to piss on the convention? Aren't there enough reich wingers already doing this tonight?

peace to you liberalhistorian

[KT2000]

142. Cannot agree with you

He earned the right to speak with his candidacy. In fact during the primaries, my usually Republican sister listened to the debates because she has become ABB. She was impressed by Sharpton for his ability to say what the other candidates were too timid to say. She wanted to suuport him but knew there was not much chance he would get the nom.

After Barack Obama spoke, C-Span's Washington Journal took a call from " a real Christian" from Missouri, as she called herself, and the racism that spewed from her mouth has haunted me ever since. There is still a lot of racism in America.

Sharpton had a story to tell, which he did with passion. I did not hear race baiting.

[Solly Mack]

145. If a white person had said exactly what Al said I would think WOW

a white person that gets it. :)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

147. Sharpton should have been on the podium as the nominee.

[PATRICK]

149. Sharpton dumping the script

was a "flaw" that made a masterpiece out of the convention. What was feared about spontaneity did not happen but let some air back into the hunkered down mentality. Everything he said needed to be said considering how some party leadership let down the cheated black voters in 2000. It energized the black voters who listened with nothing of the rancor that befell the Dukakis/Jackson competition.

Attacking the man does not work this time. At all. He performed an excellent service, again demonstrating that the black vote will NOT be silenced.

[Renew Deal]

151. Bullshit and I used to hate the guy.

I was pissed at Sharpton for a couple things he did to Dean. But that's not what his speech was all about. He gave a tremendous speech about the plight of minorities in this country. He stood up for minorities and gays like no one else during the whole convention. He also told the honest truth about Bush. It was quite refreshing.

[funkybutt]

153. What is repugnant is that he was only given 6 minutes!

I've watched the convention and seen some pretty BAD speeches. THey were ALL WAY longer than six minutes. Did anyone else get such a short time slot? I've seen Sharpton come off as pretty stupid before but his speech was excellent. At least I could tell he was alive.

[Alpha Wolf]

154. I feel for you liberalhistorian...

Isn't it just grand being brutally honest here at DU?

It really is sad. I belong to some other Democratic/liberal discussion groups and at least there people are willing to look in the mirror and critique themselves when appropriate.

by the way, could't agree more on Sharpton.

[newportdadde]

155. "Let's be brutally honest: Sharpton did not belong on the convention podiu

I'm not a fan of Al Sharpton. When I think of someone who strengthens the cause of African Americans and pushes the system in a positive way I think of MLK. Al Sharpton thrives in a climate of hate, if we all woke up tomorrow and racism was gone in all forms Al Sharpton would be in tears not because his dream were met but because his gravy train was gone. He is a parasite.

There is no such thing as reverse race baiting or reverse racism. Sure... :eyes:

That being said Al did deserve to be on the podium, he was a candidate and he brings in a strong support base of African American voters. So to answer the original question he did deserve to be there I'm just don't like him personally.

[Moderator]

156. Locking......

due the numerous personal attacks and this
is flambait.


DU Moderator