Who was prez during "Blackhawk Down?"

[Worst Username Ever]

Or the events reenacted during the movie, anyway. I seem to recall this taking place around '92, and Big Dogg wasn't inaugurated till Jan 20 '93, I think. So was this Poppy's war??

[madmax]

1. Clinton was President, if I'm not mistaken n/t

[DenverDem]

3. Clinton was Pres but it was poppy's action.

*
*

[radwriter0555]

45. Clinton was president, but poppy sent em in for a photo op... the UN had

no idea why the US troops were there, and accused the bush regime of staging the event as a photo op.

The other story is about the 12 oil leases that the Somali government wouldn't hand over to the bush regime.

[DrWeird]

2. I don't know.

Who was president during "Saving Private Ryan"?

[noahmijo]

10. Eisenhower

[RummyTheDummy]

31. I wasn't Eisenhower

Saving Private Ryan took place in June of 1944 on D-Day itself and the days following. FDR was president.

[noahmijo]

32. I thought Eisenhower was president during the first days of D-Day

I believe he was. Remember his famous speech to the troops which i believe occurred prior to the launching of the assault on France? (to attack the Germans) Check anyone?

[RummyTheDummy]

36. NO

Eisenhower planned D-Day, or Operation Overlord as it was known. When FDR died in office in April of 1945, Harry S. Truman, the vice president at the time, became president.

Eisenhower, a Republican, didn't take office until January of 1953, eight years after the end of WWII.

[noahmijo]

38. Alright alright alright

I'll take your word for it sorry for the misconception, haven't read WW II dates for about 4 years now thanks to college :-(

[RummyTheDummy]

39. Here's a link

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/de34.html

[Ilsa]

46. Okay, I'll accept that as a temporary memory loss! ;-)

College can screw anyone's head up for remembering how things work generally. But remember, you're expected to get that ability back!
(Good luck in school.)

[Worst Username Ever]

13. I think it was Eisenhower.

[DrWeird]

14. Are you sure it wasn't Clinton?

nt

[Worst Username Ever]

17. I'm pretty sure, but do you think it was Clinton? n/t

[DrWeird]

18. Yeah, pretty sure.

It was what, 1998?

[Jackpine Radical]

15. Eisenhower?

I thought the movie was about WWII--was it Korea? (I don't see war movies; they freak me out too much).

[DrWeird]

21. Korea? Please.

Abe Lincoln's been dead for 140 years.

[Worst Username Ever]

23. Korea?

Didn't we fight the Koreans during the war of 1812?

[Worst Username Ever]

28. Never mind, it was the Columbians. n/t

[Demonaut]

33. Pinochet

[Worst Username Ever]

37. I think we fought the Chinese during the revolutionary war.

[Demonaut]

40. yeah but we fought on the side of Iceland

[Worst Username Ever]

41. Or was it Greenland? I always get the two mixed up n/t

[RummyTheDummy]

34. Self delete

NT

[Renew Deal]

24. FDR

You guys have to be kidding.

[noahmijo]

4. Clinton was president

The movie was excellent I thought. Bowden the author of the book also explained how the tragedy that occurred could not be placed on Clinton's shoulders.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

5. Poppy Bush initiated the military action in Somalia, which Clinton

inherited. The military events of the film/book took place during the Clinton administration.

[flordehinojos]

12. I once heard Clinton say that if ... Colin Powell

I once heard Clinton say something to the effect that if Colin Powell had not misinformed him of the situation in Somalia (and I think Kosovo too) his decisions on each of these would have been different but that based on the information or briefings that he got from Powell he did what he did.

Does anyone else remember hearing Clinton saying something like that?
:dem:

[comsymp]

19. No- are you sure? Sounds more like Dubya

I do recall, however, that on several occasions he took full responsibility for it... although, IIRC, Aspen resigned shortly afterwards.

[flordehinojos]

42. I know, I thought about how the word "mislead" could sound just like these

times.

Atreides1 and Southlandshari cleared my recollection for me in their posts.

Hope their post has helped you to clear a history piece that was somewhat fuzzy in my recollection.

Thanks.:)

[atreides1]

22. Powell Gave bad advice

My understanding is that Powell advised the President and the Secretary of Defense, Les Aspin, that to send any armor or gunships would only escalate to problem.

So based on the advice of a soldier, who was also the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, no armor or gunships were ordered.

Also remember that the commander of the Rangers, was none other then General Boykins, the religious nut.

After this fiasco had played itself out, and 19 Rangers were killed, Les Aspin resigned and not to long afterwards our boy Powell retired.

[flordehinojos]

43. Thanks for your post and for refreshing my fuzzy memory.

I seem to also recall that Les Aspin resigned shortly after Tim Russert practically called him a failure on one of the MTP shows.
Dear ole Timmy thinks he is so hip when he can be so insulting!:mad:

[southlandshari]

27. "Against All Enemies"

(Richard Clarke's book) has some very illuminating background on the whole Somalia deal - if I'm not mistaken, Clinton was very angry at some of his advisors for bad information and advice on appropriate action after the Pakistani soldiers were killed. All I remember is that there was disagreement on how to proceed and the wrong side won, leading to the disasterous BHD event. Clarke also goes on to tell how Clinton then dealt with the situation after that, and gave him credit for good leadership in a difficult situation.

I'd have to go back to the book for more details - I'm already several chapters ahead and each one is more compelling than the last. I'll have to read it two or three times to digest all the info well enough to remember details better.

[flordehinojos]

44. Thanks for your wonderful post and the reference to Clarke's book!

Thank you for helping my memory along... Colin Powell did not play fair with Clinton...and even then, Clinton not realizing it had invited him to stay on as his Chief of Army but Powell (Bush derier kisser that he is, declined)!
:think:

[madrchsod]

6. poppy started it

clinton had to mop up his mess. clinton had to clean up bush`s mess in the balkans..seems like clinton had to clean up alot after george the lesser...

[Fone Book]

7. Black Hawk Down was Oct.2-3 1993, Clinton was prez

n/t

[Bandit]

8. Clinton was President and if I'm not mistaken those lives lost

were the only soldiers lives lost during his time in office. He didn't send the troops there and he withdrew them immediately after it became apparent that it was getting out of hand. Clinton used our military force with great care and concern. Our military did the jobs assigned to them at the time and did them well without loss of life. We sure can't say that today about the current Administration.

[noahmijo]

9. You know one line in that movie made me wonder

This part where the General tells the men going in that he had requested gunships and other equipment but "Washington in all its wisdom has decided against it"

I wonder if he was referring to the Republican controlled congress. It's been awhile since I read the book, but I remember the author placing zero blame on Clinton for what happened out there.

[Jackpine Radical]

20. Sorry--that was before the Grinch--I mean Gingrich--revolution.

IIRC Dems had both houses. Not that it did Clinton a lot of good. At first he couldn't get anything through a Congress led by his own party.

[Hutzpa]

25. So his own Party screw him up!! hmm n/t

[NewJeffCT]

30. no - see my post below...

It was a groundswell started by Republicans (Henry Hyde, in particular, I think)

[NewJeffCT]

29. The author did not blame Clinton

The request for gunships came only weeks before the Black Hawk Down event itself. It likely would not have been in time.

Also, the small, maneuverable helicopters that they would have been replaced by the gunships were instrumental in limiting our soldiers to "only" 18 dead that day. With the ability of those small choppers & their brave pilots to swoop down into the streets and hold off the throngs of Somalis, we'd likely have had a much higher death toll.

Afterwards, it was Republicans in Congress who demanded we bring our troops home - and, with the help of Limbaugh & CNN, the demand became a groundswell and the troops were soon home.

Meanwhile, actual raid itself was a military success - we got the warlord's lieutenants and killed hundreds of his supporters (estimates of anywhere between 500 to 1000 Somalis). The warlord was on the ropes and had shot his load (and then some) with the ambush. And, Republicans demanded our troops come home... if we had stayed in for a few more months, it might have made a huge difference.

[liberalmuse]

11. Bush I waited until the last minute...

...until he was a lame duck, before he sent our troops into Somalia. The planning was poor and he wasn't much into it. People had been urging him to intervene for months and months in this humanitarian crisis. In the meantime, hundreds of thousands of people died of starvation. I think Bush I just did it to complicate things for the newly elected Clinton, because it was too little, too late.

[AntiCoup2K4]

16. It was a mess that Poppy left for Clinton to clean up

So was the Koresh situation in Waco, for that matter.

[lunarboy13]

26. Yes...Bush 1 got us into Somalia...Clinton had to deal with it...

If any of you have read the book by Richard Clarke, it dealt with this incident in detail. Bush 1 got us into Somalia and never really conferred with the incoming Clinton Admin. So the opereation was already up and running when President Clinton took office. But in Clarke's book, he described Clinton's actions as decisive and firm -- something that Democratic Presidents aren't usually known for (at least that's the media's erroneous perception). I'm at work now, but if any are interested, I can post a paragraph or two from his book on that incident when I get home...

[southlandshari]

35. Bush I sent in troops AFTER he lost bid for re-election

in 1992. Somali situation had become desperate, bandits stealing aid, hundreds dying every day from famine and random violence. Outgoing Bush admin had no plan for involvement in Somalia and told incoming Clinton admin that UN would soon take over. UN dragged its feet, finally sent peacekeeping troops a couple of months after Clinton took office, two dozen Pakistani soldiers slaughtered by war lord Farah Aideed in June 1993.

(Navy?) Admiral Jonathan Howe took job of overseeing US involvement in Somalia and coordinating with UN just prior to Pakistani incident. He advised US must respond with force to killing of peacekeeping troops - get Aideed and smash his militia. Made a list of what would be needed for appropriate response (including troops, special forces and equipment, including gunships).

It was the Pentagon that refused Howe's request. Only after three US soldiers were killed in Somalia in Sept., 1993, did the Pentagon agree to PART of list - sent in commandos and Black Hawks. What followed was the Oct. 3 BHD disaster - 18 US troops dead, approximately 1200 Somalis killed.

Clinton was livid - he inherited the mess, felt like military (Pentagon) let him down. He listened to advisors Powell, Christopher and (Les) Aspin in a meeting following the incident, but (according to Clarke) had already decided what to do.

Clarke goes on to describe Clinton approved actions in Somalia (which got little publicity but helped get the U.S. out of the country and hand operations over to the UN with zero additional American casualties).

(rough paraphrase from Clarke's book - I hope I didn't violate any posting rules with this!)