Fair/unfair?

[AG78]

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=353&row=0

[DenverDem]

1. Unfair

and extremely counterproductive.

What's your alternative, Greg? You did great work in Florida but we need electable change NOW!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Fair. I see it as "Vote for Kerry, but hold him accountable".

It also keeps folks from getting too complacent. Gotta keep the fires burning.

[no name no slogan]

15. Fair. I'm with you.

Especially after seeing how some of my state's Kucinich delegates have been treated by the Kerry campaign and the DNC bosses at the convention. Read this story (
Kucinich delegates feel voice wasn't heard) and tell me that I shouldn't be angry for the deceitful tactics and empty promises made.

Unfortunately, this has been standard operating procedure for many of the DFL party higher-ups all through the primary season. We're excluded all over the place. We didn't get ONE MENTION AT ALL from the party chairman regarding our strength at the state convention, although our Peace/Justice bloc was the most organized and had 35% of the delegates there.

And now this bit, and the old "switcheroo" speech by Mondale (a tired old political hack if there ever was one) and his "peace through strength" speech. Cripes, that line's not out of place at a GOP convention, and here it's MONDALE saying this!

I'm with Dennis this year, so I'll vote for Kerry. However, due to the way his campaign and this party have treated us, I WILL NOT campaign for him, or give him money, or stop criticizing him when he screws up. Nor will the DNC see a penny from me, either. I've got several very good progressive Democrats running locally that can use my money and skills much more than the hacks running Kerry's effort.

It really makes me sad, because I genuinely admire Kerry's Senate record, for the most part. He was very courageous when he voted against Desert Storm, and opened the Iran/Contra investigations. But why do the sycophants around his campaign want to shut out the progressives, and treat them like dirt?

Hell, these are "free votes" that don't take much to earn (just mention peace once in awhile, without following it up with militarism. Is that so damned hard?). Yet his staff seem willing to forsake them to go after a very very small "swing vote" this year.

I guess the strategy is getting rid of a sure 5% and going after a highly doubtful 3%. I don't know.

:shrug:

[bossfish]

3. I like Palast...

and his column is fair on balance.

But what a lot of people forget is the difference betweeen being a senator and the president. The president sets policies and agendas, a senator has a 1% input on decisions and that is if the executive branch even allows input.

I think this line is unfair

===

Michael fudged and fidgeted. I felt bad for him as he faked the answer, "President Kerry would not have sent us to war." But as Senator, Kerry did.

===

[TahitiNut]

13. The President isn't supposed to be the the Chief Contemplative ...

... (s)he's supposed to be the Chief Executive. (More like a COO, imho.)

The word "policy" is far too overblown in the Executive Branch, imho. The People and the Legislative Branch set "policy." To the degree a candidate expresses proposals and positions (the VAST majority of which must be enacted in Congress), the People elect the candidate most attuned to their preferences. But they ain't "policies" until enacted.

[nyhuskyfan]

4. A bit unfair

I'll give Palast a pass for his work on the Florida election...

Kerry voted to give the president authority to go to war (if certain conditions were not met), not the same as actually giving the orders. I condemn the writers of The Patriot Act more than the people who voted for it. That was a time where the climate was unlike anythying that anybody had experienced before, and nobody wanted to seem unpatriotic -- but a definite tip of the cap to Russ Feingold for standing by his principles and being the lone dissenting voice. Voting for the original No Child Left Behind act is more forgivable than the irresponsible gutting of the funding that has ensued.

If anything, that article sure doesn't make him look like the most liberal senator, like the Repugs keep claiming.

[cprise]

6. Those are all just excuses

...and poor ones at that.

Palast is reminding people what we are getting with John Kerry, a Senator who has not shown leadership in his actions.

Your comment about "most liberal senator" claims illustrates why pressure from the Left actually helps a candidte like John Kerry when there are many swing votes to be had. If the Left plays invisible, then it allows centrists to be portrayed as far-Left and they are forced to follow a Right-wing agenda the way Clinton did. Or they just don't get elected. But seeing Kucinich, Dean, Moore, etc. voters may HEAR that Kerry is very liberal but they won't BELIEVE it.

[fob]

5. Unfair and unhinged

[klook]

7. Fair and unbalanced

Greg Palast is a great journalist, and I respect his work highly. And I see his point in this piece. But this is an emergency. We have to get Bush out of there. As Arianna Huffington says, our house is on fire. It's not time to redecorate.

I am hoping like hell that the Kerry-Edwards ticket wins in November, and am contributing and working (and will vote) to make it happen.

At the same time, I realize full well that this is a compromise. We can't move the country as far to the left as I'd like in one fell swoop, so doing it incrementally is going to have to suffice.

[southlandshari]

9. I agree

After the convention, I remain firmly in the ABB camp. I think Palast makes good and valid points (as always), but I am more willing to deal with the shortcomings I see in Kerry than the outright evil of the Bush administration.

Before I forget - you gave me quite a whupping with your copy of the Ten Commandments the other night! I don't know whether to thank you or report you to the authorities! =)

[klook]

10. Anybody But Satan

Glad you weren't offended by the way I administered the Ten Commandments the other evening, and hope you are able to sit down now. :evilgrin:

I see by your profile that you're in Alabama. I'm in Georgia, so conventional wisdom says both our votes will be wasted if they're cast for Kerry-Edwards. But hey, if we keep working maybe we could achieve the "impossible" and help Dixie go for Kerry.

[southlandshari]

11. Wasted

is just a state of mind, one best achieved by drinking Budweiser - it is never a term applicable to our votes! That said, I felt like my vote in the last presidential election was useless - until I saw the final result...

I was living in Mississippi at the time and hauled ass back from a work trip to Louisiana to get to the polls in time to vote, knowing the state would go to Bush, but feeling it was important to be counted anyway. Of course Mississippi went Republican, but when it became clear that Gore won the popular vote and was still denied the presidency, I was at least glad my vote counted somewhere.

If there is any chance of a repeat of 2000, our votes for Kerry in southern "Republican" states could really turn out to be important. And that is why I hope few people go for the "vote trading" deal where people in non-swing states vote for Nadar or Cobb in exchange for friends in swing states voting for Kerry. Not a good idea this time around.

[Mojambo]

8. Kerry needs to earn our support

by representing our values.
If he doesn't (for any reason) he should lose that support.

We all bitch about how the republican sheeple support Bush no matter how much he betrays them. Our vigilance in making sure Kerry walks the right (or more appropriately, the left) road is noble and necessary.

I'll support him as long as he represents my values. I'm sure he'd have it no other way.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. Completely unfair - point by point

Boston] The millionaires are dancing now. The balloons are falling on John Kerry, John Edwards and their nuclear families.

Nice unbiased journalism there. Makes me wonder what follows (not).


He told us tonight about some poor bastard in Ohio whose job evaporated when his company unbolted the equipment and sent it south. Hey, Johnnie, didn't you vote for NAFTA?

Yeah and if NAFTA ALONE was the reason that the schmuck in Ohio didn't have a job, then Palast would be correct. The reason the Schmuck doesn't have a job is that there WERE environmental and LABOR provisions in NAFTA that were NOT enforced fully under Slinton nor at ALL under Bush. What does Palast think of trade? Do we know HOW he would recommend the rest of the world eat? Clothe themselves?

We applauded when he said the White House should stop treating teachers and school kids like fugitives from justice and help them out. But, Johnnie, didn't you vote for George Bush's "No Child's Behind Left" assault on public education?

But did he NOT VOTE to fund it? Didn't Ted Kennedy vote for it as well?

BTW..after school programs are separate and distinct from NCLB but let's not waste that we we can jab at Kerry as though anyone else stands a snowball's chance in hell to get rid of Bush.

Palast is getting SLOPPY.

Then there was that little story meant to show us all he is a Man for All Seasons, above party politics. "I broke with many in my own party," he said, "to vote for a balanced budget, because I thought it was the right thing to do." No, John, it wasn't. It was craven political cowardice, going with the anti-government hysteria that put a knife into the heart of the programs you cried over tonight.

Uh...no...it was a manner to PULL the US out of debt following Reagan so that we could actually stop paying BANKS just to breathe...don't you like to rail against BANKS, Greg? Maybe stupid people buy this shit, but every dollar we are in debt is good money thrown after bad.

He told us the sad story of the poor homeless guy huddled in front of the White House. Is this the same John Kerry that voted for Clinton's welfare "reform"? That put a five-year limit on food stamps, making child starvation the law of the USA. At least Ronald Reagan offered ketchup as a vegetable.

Yeah and the same John Kerry that pushed over and over for CLEAN-UP legislation after the bill had passed...perhaps Palast forgot the prior to the Gingrich revolution, when HARMFUL caveats were included in bills, there were "gentleman's agreements" to correct the worst of policy...a policy practice that flew out the window during that era...again..the LEFT is just as callous as the right in their legislative memory only tossing out that which serves them.

Kerry made good use of the cash he saved on feeding the poor. "I fought to put a 100,000 cops on the street." Hey, thanks, John.

Go be a MOM with small children in an inner city and say that with the same callousness....I like Palast in many regards, but this is sloppy writing, fact checking, contextualizing and he is just being an ass.

But my absolute favorite of the night was when Kerry told us, "Saying there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq doesn't make it so. As President, I will ask hard questions and demand hard evidence."



But, as Senator, you didn't. No questions asked: you just closed your eyes and voted for the lie. I know it, and you sure as hell know it.

Uh, no..he sat in security meetings with agents who had credibly testified before him in the past....

I could go on...but this line takes the cake.


I know what you're going to say. "Isn't Bush worse?"



By a long shot. But asking if Kerry is as bad as Bush is like asking if a slap in the face is as painful as a brick to the skull.

No Palast..more like to the nuts...and you have a lot of fucking GALL even daring to slam a guy who is at least ATTEMPTING to right many of the wrongs you RAIL against.

You just lost your carte blanche creibility with this reader..I don't support people who would shoot me in the fucking foot.

Fuck you, Palast...more of the Ralphie "there is no difference" tripe...no wonder you have a good gig on NPR...they like to help with this body blow from the right and the left regardless of the horrific consequence.

[Jackpine Radical]

16. Dead on target.

I too have always respected Palast, but your skewering of this piece is not just an elegant job, but a necessary one.

[Selwynn]

18. Dead fricken on.

I'm so tired of the.... oh fuck it, you know exactly what I'm talking about, I don't need to rail on it again in my thirtieth post on the same subject. :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. He also confuses JOHN Kerry with Bob Kerrey

In the sentence where he talks about shooting Viet Namese in the back...that was BOB Kerrey not John Kerry.

[eridani]

21. Redundant

I just wonder why Palast thinks that ABB lefties in the US don't already know about Kerry's deficiencies from our point of view. Why rub it in?


What does Palast think of trade? Do we know HOW he would recommend the rest of the world eat? Clothe themselves?

Can't let that one pass. Sorry to see you bashing the anti-NAFTA people as being against trade. Since when do we need a bunch of rules written to favor corporations and capital and applied in secrecy with no public input in order to carry out trade? People have been trading for thousands of years without any such rules.

The traditional meaning of 'free' trade is low or no tariff barriers. If we want that, we can just enter into bilateral negotiations and have whatever tariffs are mutually agreeable.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

22. Wonderful demolition job NSMA

While I would consider Greg Palast to be a wonderful contributor to our side who has done some great work in exposing the lies and debunking the myths of this Administration, I profoundly disagree with him over his posiiton relating to Kerry.

[progressivebydesign]

14. Ah Palast. another semi-demi-God on DU.

Another writer who used thousands of words to say 3 sentences. Please Palast, vote for Nader, vote for Sharpton, vote for Bush.. but can you do it without spitting out 2,000+ words every time you have a thought? I'm tiring of people like that. WTF does he want, exactly? That we'll all think he's so much more clever than Kerry? Than Edwards? Than the other Democrats? It's like peeing in your soup, then complaining that it's inedible and no one else wants it!

[cprise]

17. Yeah

He should join DU, squeal like a pig about what "the media" said all day while generating ad revenue for the worst of them, then pathetically try to use the same spin techniques to bash anyone to the Left of Kerry.

[Selwynn]

19. Hey! As a notoriously long writer... I resemble those remarks!

:D

I can't (and don't want to) help it.

[suegeo]

23. The "Kerry is not a hero" part kinda bugged me

I heard a replay of Kerry's testimony before congress back in the 70s.

I think Kerry was a stand up guy for pointing out that he wanted to be a part of the generation that turns humanity toward a more positive, life affirming course. He said something about stopping all the violence that kids get exposed to, esp. on T.V. He said something like "I'd like to think that our generation did a lot to turn the human race toward something more positive." etc etc.

Also, he was a part of a veterans group after he came home from Vietnam. Many of these groups were "jam sessions" for the vets, a place where they could go to talk about the horrors of what they had seen and to heal their mental wounds, as best as possible. The fucking government wasn't gonna do squat for them in figuring out why bad dreams were keeping them awake at night, so they had to do it themselves.

Seeing blood, guts, hearing little kids screaming, horror, etc changes your brain. (PTSD, anyone?) Those guys had to pull themselves up their own bootstraps and take control of their own minds again.

Palast said John Kerry was no hero for shooting a Vietnamese kid. Well, duh. Kerry was a kid himself at that time, doing what the "adults" told him to do. He came home and hinted that perhaps the adults may want to reconsider the whole "kids killing other kids" idea. He even went to point out that seeing violence on tv fucks with your head. Probably not a good idea for a 4 year old to see that stuff, ya know.

Can't someone with a voice loud enough to be heard say "Thanks John, for learning that hard lesson and pointing it out to the rest of us."

I guess they really didn't burn or bleed enough, like the song says.