Bush on the attack! Is this trouble for Kerry?

[against all enemies]

Bush today stated that Kerry and Edwards voted to support his decision to go to war with Iraq. Both had the same intelligence briefings as he did and both supported Bush by voting for his bill. How can Kerry/Edwards say they were against the war when they supported it.

ALSO

In his speech last night Kerry said he would never send American troops into battle without proper equipment, but both Kerry and Edwards voted against the 86 million, money for bullet-proof vests for the troops.


In other words Bush is telling everyone that Kerry/Edwards voted with him for the war and against him for life saving vests for the troops. And the votes back what Bush says. This is a huge problem. What were Kerry and Edwards thinking when they made their votes. I'm on their side but this is all a swing voter needs to hear in order to go with B*sh.

[shoelace414]

1. and yet!

only Bush decided on whether or not to invade Iraq

[against all enemies]

Can the American people make that distinction?

There is an awful lot of thought in that small statement. Can't Bush claim he was only going what Congress supported him to do?

[against all enemies]

6. Can the American people make that distinction?

There is an awful lot of thought in that small statement. Can't Bush claim he was only going what Congress supported him to do?

[Tarheel_Dem]

2. keep dreaming..........

bush doesn't explain that there were two bills. this is easily debunked.

[against all enemies]

10. How many "swing voters" take the time to debunk stuff?

I'm aware of the two votes for the $86 million and that Kerry was right for wanting the $86 million to be paid for through taxes, but the press never reveals this information and people don't research anything.

[malatesta1137]

3. are you kidding?

Bush has NO credibility at this point and why should anyone, at least someone with half a brain, believe ANYTHING this mass murderer, war criminal, election-thief freeptard should say?

[w13rd0]

4. The "intelligence" that Bush heard and then passed on to the Senate...

...was cherry picked by Cheney and the OSP. Cheney went to the CIA to push them to tell the WH what BushCo wanted to hear. And that 86B, Kerry and Edwards asked that Bush fullfill one simple request to secure their vote. And that was to tell us how he was going to pay for it. Bush just borrows and spends, not just our money, but our childrens money. And despite GETTING the money, Bush STILL didn't properly support the troops. That money primarily went to pay off his contributors. So Bush can go *U&% himself.

[linazelle]

47. Bingo. The intelligence was manufactured by BushCo. So there you go.

[redqueen]

5. The record also shows Bush threatened to veto the damn bill

this is the dumbest spin ever... and we need to stop acting like it's credible.

Just relay the facts to whomever brings it up... spread the truth, and the debunking of their spin will just serve to further expose them as the lying liars they are.

[apnu]

28. do you have a link to that record?

I need it for some quick debunking!

[noahmijo]

7. LIES!!!!!

Oh my God I'm gonna explode that's it I can't take these anti-military lying sacks of shit anymore now I officially hate them enough to want to knock Rove on his fat ass with a bat.

First off the vote on Iraq:



http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html

READ IT AGAIN ASSHOLE BUSH!! NOWHERE in that statement did Kerry say he supported YOU he supports the safety of Americans were there to be a true threat! He supported it only as a last resort.

The only thing Kerry did wrong and can hardly be faulted for was he didn't expect the commander in chief to LIE!

Onto the vote for for the body armor WHO THE HELL SENT THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE WITHOUT PROPER EQUIPMENT???

WHO WAS THE ONE WHO PUT HIS RICH BUDDIES AHEAD OF OUR SOLDIERS BY THREATENING TO VETO KERRY'S PROPOSAL FOR FUNDING THE $87 BILLION BY REPEALING THE TAX CUTS ON THE RICHEST???


AHHHH!!! Somebody hold me back here seriously.......

[texastoast]

41. No way

I'm sending your sentient response to a wingnut idiot who just emailed me gloating about the spin. Thanks.

[shraby]

8. It's a buncha bushit

Kerry voted for the war but with the stipulation that the inspections were carried out with work through the U.N. Bush didn't allow the inspectors to finish the job. I remember them being run out of Iraq because the bombing was about to begin.

On the money for the war, Bush had plenty of money for the war..he just didn't provide vests, armor for the humvees, enough food and now they are running out of bullets, because Bushco figured they would be greeted with kisses and flowers and didn't need any more protections that any sane person would provide to an army in war. In fact, they still don't have enough vests, armor and bullets. With all kinds of money supplements since.

[Cocoa]

I bet Kerry never saw this coming

Bush is so unpredictable! /sarcasm

[Technowitch]

9. I'm not worried

We have a very different candidate this time around.

Kerry will fight back.

[tandot]

11. Well, it was Bush's decision to sent them to war WITHOUT proper equipment

Bush apparently knew that our soldiers lack proper equipment and still sent them over there to die.

There was NO immediate threat, NO WMD's, NO Al Qeada connection.

Kerry and others wanted Bush to exhaust all other possibilities and use war as a last resort...only when it is really necessary to protect America. Bush gave a sh*t about that. He wanted to be our WAR PRESIDENT ... hoping that we won't de-select him during a time of war.

[fob]

12. bush* is lying

Both had the same intelligence briefings as he did...

They did NOT (Unless you mean they had briefings titled the same, but the version shown to the Senate was redacted/modified/sexed up by leaving out all the qualifiers like, "May not have...", "could have...", "uncertain..." and the like.

Both had the same intelligence

and that little snippet is WAY NOT TRUE!!!

[gcomeau]

13. It's only trouble...

...if Kerry is concerned about that key voting bloc: the Gullible and Uninformed.

-Grant

[redqueen]

18. No doubt!

Welcome to DU, Grant!

:hi:

[gcomeau]

30. Bush's 'tactics' astound me....

>Welcome to DU, Grant!

Thanks. :)

[RoadRunner]

31. Good one, Grant. LOL!!

:thumbsup:

[against all enemies]

48. If they weren't gullible and uninformed why would they still be undecided?

Are voters who say they are undecided really that stupid or are they just looking for attention?

[Cheneys_former_heart]

14. we need to get our pundits on message about $87billion

This should have been knocked down ages ago, yet everytime it comes up the question is avoided by whoever our pundit is. Sure, we know the story, but it's got to be hammered into the American TV audience's heads, just like the neocons do. Everyday I hear this talking point, and every day it goes ignored or unanswered. Not good for us to not take this head on.

[info being]

15. He's talking to OUR points. That's the goal.

We're controlling the subject-matter.

[swag]

16. Bush is damaged goods. He fucked up. US wants change.

Mr. President,

"My name is Pitt
and your ass ain't talkin' your way outta this shit."

[lebkuchen]

17. Bush is living up to all of Kerry's expectations

and he's fallen into the trap Kerry has laid. Being mean is the only way Bush can communicate.

[Walt Starr]

19. Bush attacking is Bush falling for the rop-a-dope

The convention speech set the stage, if Bush attacks, he loses. If he doesn't attack, he's the "me-too" candidate.

All Bush has lef is, "you should vote for me to make sure Laura is 1st Lady for Four More Years."

[Bush was AWOL]

20. No, if Kerry would've avoided these issues last night

Bush might have something. But, Kerry stepped up and said more or less, do not challenge me on the Iraq war or national security. If Kerry had something to hid he wouldn't have taken such a hawkish approach, in my opinion.

[seabeyond]

21. this has all been said

and if people are still going to vote for kerry then they will let it go no matter how many times bush says it. kinda like i continually saying bush was awol, they still vote for him. not going to have legs unless there is something new

[redqueen]

22. Good point

they've been trying to hawk this for months, and usurper boy's numbers are STILL falling.

[Zen Democrat]

23. Bush was against Homeland Security and the 9/11 Commission

He's flip-flopped on so many things. I don't know if anyone watched C-Span 2 last night when they replayed Bush's 2000 acceptance speech. Almost EVERYTHING he said was reversed during the past four years. Running this election on consistency with past statements is a argument Democrats can win hands down.

If MoveOn just cuts some clips from that acceptance speech and plays them, the flip-flop issue will .... flip-flop.

[Hubert Flottz]

24. Bush could have bought a lot of body armor with the money.......

Halliburton ripped us off for!

[geek tragedy]

25. "Would you give George W. Bush ANOTHER blank check?"

That oughtta do it.

[Bush was AWOL]

26. What is the blank check deal?

I've heard that before, but could you please explain.

[geek tragedy]

35. He trusted Bush once on voting to authorize the war.

Fool me once . . .

[Mz Pip]

27. Bush never should have

sent the troops into war without the proper equipment. Blaming Kerry for the troops not having body armour is just ludicrous.

MzPip
:dem:

[Bluebear]

29. Thank you for pointing out RW talking points!

We wouldn't have access to this kind of info otherwise!

[against all enemies]

49. Yes they are the talking points, but you and are are not the target group.

Everybody knows its Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and the other states in play that count. These talking points could be a problem for Kerry. Sorry to bring them up, but they are two big arrows in bush's quiver. Remember, Bush in not talking to you or me, its the people who still haven't made up their minds yet. what kind of people haven't made up their minds yet? People that don't read, don't research, and believe what they hear on TV. It is a concern, it appears that the uninformed will decide the election. That's my concern.

[LittleApple81]

32. I AM WILLING TO CONTRIBUTE $100 TO CREATE A BIG BIG AD

explaining the 87B dollar deal to the dumbasses who cannot go to johnkerry.com and READ!
I am so mad!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

43. So, other than that, what are you trying to say?....

Hee-hee-hee!!! :evilgrin:

[BayouBengal07]

33. I dont know

Hopefully Kerry can fight back in the presidential debates and cut through the crap, because right now he isn't really fighting back. He's letting Bush walk all over his record. But that could be a plan. Stay optimistic, let them be negative.

[Wednesdays]

46. Huh?

"He's letting Bush walk all over his record"???
:wtf:
See posts #15, 17, and 19, above.

[MichiganVote]

34. For what its worth

My sense is that the majority of swing voters are hung up on things such as the economy, values or family values and taxes. I may be wrong but I think that people have pretty much made up their minds who to vote for in regard to the Iraq war.

For the record, however, the Senate did not have the same intelligence briefings as he had. First, prior to 9/11, George Bush seldom met with his Intelligence and secondly, following 9/11, members of the Senate did not meet with CIA/FBI or the military intelligence to the extent that Bush or his Cabinet did.

Member of the Senate mistakely gave the President basically the power to prempt a threat with military action. Was the Senate sleeping or were some in bed with Bush? Possibly, probably, who knows. The preponderance of evidential information is now in the 9/11 and State Department reports.

What is most telling about the war in Iraq is the fact that prior to 9/11 it has been shown that Bush had a strong interest in the region, that as Commander in Chief the buck stops with him and that following the invasion, no weapons of mass destruction have been found. None, Period. Suspicions about items having been sent to Syria have not been shown and there is no indicaton that this administration is attempting to find them. Can't be too concerned.

Hussein was/is a smokescreen to place military might in the Middle East, secure access to much needed oil and reward companies such as Halliburton.

[Sagan]

36. Chimpy is chasing the wrong banana

I know 5 people who voted for Chimpy who have said they are voting for Kerry. Their reasoning?

"We don't know that Kerry will be a failure as President, but we do know Bush has been."

That's the obstacle Chimpy has to overcome. An impossible task.

Chimpy isn't running against Kerry. He's running against himself. That's what KKKarl can't grasp.

[ClassWarrior]

37. The $87 billion Bush* wanted was a handout to Halliburton.

Most of it hasn't YET gotten to the troops in Iraq - and probably never will.

[Disturbed]

38. Why was Iraq invaded?

Why was Iraq invaded?

Because of three things:

1) Iraq being cleared of WMD by the UNMOVIC/UNSCOM meant Desert Storm (when Saddam went off the reservation) was over and sanctions had to be lifted.

2) Iraq had European contracts for their oil.

3) Iraq was going to trade the oil in Euros not petrodollars.

"Remember, Bush/Saud are the same thing. BDM/Vinnel (Carlyle at the time) arm, train, equip man what keeps Saud in power. Saudi crude funds the whole Bush/Saud crew. Iraq suddenly free again to sell its oil, and in Euros not only screws Bush/Saud, but would cripple the US economy along multiple fracture lines.

First and obviously, having the 2nd largest oil reserve of accessible crude come onto the market will drive the value of Saudi crude into the basement. That Iraq would end run the rest of OPEC to make up for a decade of being starved would scatter the cartel members into the winds to fend for themselves. So what is better, to let Iraq crude take out your own operation at the knees or take it over and roll it into the same portfolio.

Second, because Iraq was gonna devalue your own assets in the first place, doing so outside our traditional partner firms and with European (French, Russian, German) firms visions of Chinnese orders means you are not getting a swing at that crude even in the rest of the chain.

Third, and most critical (and actually more "forgivable" in a strange circumpolar way) is that trading in Euros not petrodollars collapse our capital market funding of our debt and deficits, both Governmental budget and general economic. If China (as its demand for oil goes through the roof in the next 10 years) starts trading with Iraq, and the Euro becomes the currency for oil (not to mention it is already on the edge of surpassing the dollar for capital markets anyway base don value as it is) suddenly China has no need to continue to buy our debt. It would get more of a return in Euros, plus it buys oil form Iraq in Euros."

Christian Parenti

[democratreformed]

40. Funny, but yours is the first lengthy post

on these "real" reasons for the war that I have seen on here. Sure, everyone has hollered "it's for the oil". But, I have always felt that the euro issue was the biggest one as well.

*'s biggest mistake was assuming that these issues were too complicated for the American people to understand. He chose, instead to make up crap that, he thought, they would support.

I still don't agree with the war. And Bush has done many other things that make him unfit to be our leader. But, I am better able to understand WHY our representatives and senators voted the way they did when I consider the issues as they are presented in your post. That still doesn't make it right. But, at least, more understandable.

I am very thankful that John Kerry's speech last night spoke to me in a way that only Wes Clark has done before now. I honestly believe he will be a great President.

[NoBorders]

45. yeah, * invaded BECAUSE there were no WMD's

the inspectors were about to show this, and his justification for going to war would no longer exist. So, he had to invade as quickly as possible. I mean c'mon, as if Iraq was going to launch a biological attack at us any minute.

Your points about petrodollars vs. euro and our debt financing is one that I have not heard before. Thanks.

[qanda]

39. Go back and look

Over the half the country was against the $87 billion bill. I wish people would cut this crap out. Why did we even need a new appropriation's bill? They don't even know where the money is being spent.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

42. These posts always follow the same old tired pattern...

1. Statement of the "issue"

2. FratBoy's public statement on that "issue"

3. How Kerry and/or Edwards must have screwed up

4. This is a huge problem

5. What are we going to do, woe is me, sky is falling, yadda-yadda-yadda

And then when the "issue" gets debunked, the poster disappears for a short while, only to reappear later with another "issue" that always closely parallels the current NeoCon talking points.

Amazing, isn't it? What a coincidence!

[Tarheel_Dem]

44. MLD....you took the words right outta my mouth.

:toast:

[against all enemies]

51. If you are accusing me of being a NeoCon you aren't even close.

I listened to the radio today and was bombarded with this story, on the news, even on all things considered. You think because it is debunked here on DU the war is won. Yeah, the media does lie daily, but that is all the more reason to be concerned. I've voted for McGovern, Carter, Anderson, Dukaukis, Clinton, Nader, and Gore.

Amazing isn't it?
What a coincidence!
You aren't as smart as you think you are.

[Pepperbelly]

50. Juyst like everything else the bastards sez, he coupled 2 lies for ...

twice the flavor.

Bob Somerby has taken these things completely apart. There is nothing difficult to understand. What we have are media skanks that are too lazy, too well fed and too junior-high cliqueish to bother to explain it to their poor readers.

[bluedog]

52. you know why bush

is attacking right?...Kerry did do his job years ago.he uncovered the Iran Contra scandel.that implied that Reagan and his Daddy Bushy.were freaking crooks.........and North took the fall..........read up on Kerrys digging into this.he wouldn't let it go.

[EndElectoral]

53. Now Bush attacks Kerry's senate record. What was GW's Senate record?

Let's see. Uh..none. And what was he doing back when JFK started? Let's see. Getting drunk, high on crack, failing in every business he attempted....It's no wonder he prayed to be born again, this life wasn't working out too well for him.