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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 08:12 PM
Original message
For rightwing fundie watchers -- question
Edited on Fri Jul-30-04 08:12 PM by jokerman2004
I'm curious what Bush's religious "rapture" base is days about the emperor's obvious credibility and popularity problems these days.

I expect he still has the support of the die-hards. I'm just curious what sorts of wild rationalizations they are resorting to these days.

Anybody?
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. jokerman fly by the light of moon
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Gay marriage. Gay marriage. Gay marriage.
That's their big wedge issue this year.
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midwayer Donating Member (719 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Abortion and gay marriage are wedge issues
Edited on Fri Jul-30-04 08:44 PM by midwayer
Here are the serious issues with repubs. I am glad you brought this up as I have been beating the streets and listening for a couple of days now.

First of all there are quite a few DIE HARDS who are just plain STUPID

You will never convince them that Bush and his Strassian cronies have EVER done ANYTHING wrong even as they understand thier wallet is being looted and thier rights are being taken away....

Forget about it,they absolutely have no clue and cannot be convinced. "It's all the Democrats fault" even as they bitch about things like tort reform and the Gestapo tactics.

The next tier up is in the camp that "it's all Clinton's fault"...He's the one that started the sell out to corporate interest. "It's all the Democrats fault"

The biggy that I'm having difficulty with is "that the unions sold us out with thier demands on the corporations" Please advise on this one. And, of course, "it's all the Democrats fault"

Now, here is something interesting. I attempted to explain regarding the shift of the right into extremist ideology and the fact that the Democrats have moved into a more central and less liberal stance that the Democrats ideology is actually a more preferred stance. Well this is where the conversation ended and we went into "agree to disagree" mode" until we get closer to the election.

They still believe that the Democratic party is the one who has caused all the problem due to the liberal view of the past.

What's the matter with Kansas

The haunt still persists

Of course the last camp is that "I'm not voting because they are ALL CROOKED" This, My friends.....is a HUGE CAMP
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midwayer Donating Member (719 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. the unions sold us out with thier demands on the corporations"
This is the biggie that I'm hearing

We fucked ourselves

So it's justified in thier little minds
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midwayer Donating Member (719 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The really stupid die hards
are convinced that this economy is running better than it ever has before.

These are the ones who you can't even talk to about the

credit bubble
housing bubble
serious fed liquidity inflow
derivatives

plunge protection team

they have no clue about these types of issue and the systemic risk
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. yeah gay issues and abortion are the hooks
I'm more curious about the dogmatic rationalizations being made to explain Bush's failure to rise to glory according to the Dominionist plan.
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midwayer Donating Member (719 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Most I talk to don't even have a clue regarding the underlying
fundamental issues you are bringing up

They have never heard of the PNAC and thier underlying Judeo, Christian Staussian beliefs

AND

THEY JUST DON'T EVEN CARE TO INVESTIGATE this issue

this is not an issue with them

they only care about one thing

that Democrats are the ones who have ruined this country

and if the Democrats get into power we are all screwed

Bottomline
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. Stem cell research = baby killing blah blah blah
Every sperm is precious to the fundies because it could have been a life.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I suppose they'll start an adoption agency for them soon
:eyes:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Funny you should ask.....
http://www.nightlight.org/

Christian adoption of embryos.

The sperm adoptions will be next. They're thinking of a heartfelt name for it.
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belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. "Operation Kleenex."
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. I found this long but very interesting article examining this very thing
Edited on Fri Jul-30-04 09:03 PM by proud patriot
(snip)
I ask Tom what role he sees in America for nonbelievers. "Well, if people are of an opinion that their God is supreme and are willing to burn your house down to prove it or dismantle your car to prove it or make all sorts of loud noises, disturbing the peace, and say that they have a right to do that in the name of God. . . ." he begins, in his best Mr. Rogers voice. Later I parse out what the hell he was talking about. I was asking about atheists. But Tom understood "nonbeliever" according to the premise that God is exclusively Judeo-Christian. It wasn't about whether you believe in anything, but whether you dared diverge from his belief.

Walking me to my car (he insisted), Tom, who works for a construction conglomerate, reaches for a favorite metaphor to describe George Bush: linoleum. "You know: Usually you get a microfilm of the color, and if you drop a plate on it you discover it's an ugly-looking floor. Then linoleum came out—the pattern goes through the entire one-eighth of material. You can drop a plate on it, and the color is true all the way down!"

His face glows. He gets a far-off look in his eyes. That's his Bush.

(snip)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What all does it mean? The right-wing website Free Republic is infamous for galvanizing harassment campaigns against ideological enemies, but it also has a lighter side: a robust culture of George W. kitsch. "Freepers" display and study the famous photograph of Bush embracing Ashley Faulkner, whose mother perished on 9-11, a woeful, iconic look on his face ("The protective encirclement of her head by President Bush's arm and hand is the essence of fatherly compassion," Freeper luvbach1 writes); the ladies exchange snaps of the president in resolute pose, rendering up racy comments about his sexiness; they reference an image of Bush jogging alongside a soldier wounded in Iraq like it's a Xerox of his very soul. "He's the kind of guy who's going to remember to call a soldier who's lost a leg," one citizen of the Free Republic reflects, "and go jogging with him when he gets a replacement prosthetic." Revering Bush has become, for people like this, a defining component of conservative ideology.

Once I interviewed a Freeper who told me he first became a committed conservative after discovering the Federalist Papers. "I absolutely devoured them, recognizing, my God, these things were written hundreds of years ago and they still stand up as some of the most intense political philosophy ever written."

I happen to agree, so I asked him—after he insisted Bush couldn't have been lying when he claimed to have witnessed the first plane hit the World Trade Center live on TV, after he said the orders to torture in Iraq couldn't have possibly come from the top, all because George Bush is too fundamentally decent to lie—what he thinks of the Federalists' most famous message: that the genius of the Constitution they were defending was that you needn't base your faith in the country on the fundamental decency of an individual, because no one can be trusted to be fundamentally decent, which was why the Constitution established a government of laws, not personalities.

"If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary . . . "

Conservatives see something angelic in George Bush. That's why they excuse, repress, and rationalize away so much.

And that is why conservatism is verging on becoming an un-American creed.



http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0429/perlstein.php
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midwayer Donating Member (719 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. "If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on g
This is why...if you believe in a Supreme Being and the Bible

"Angels were created just a little below mankind"

A "free will" issue as well
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midwayer Donating Member (719 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. and this is why
the checks and balances are so critical
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belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Gahh. I remember watching this documentary about U.S. neo-Nazis once
"Blood in the Face," was it? Anyway they were interviewing this one guy with a portrait of Hitler in his living room, and he was talking about it in that same sort of orgasmic/worshipful way. "You see...the mouth? And his eyes..." One for the psychiatrists I've no doubt. yucko.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. You mean aside from the wild rationalizations they have...
...as to why their own particular religion makes them the "real Christians"?
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CaTeacher Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I have been told "he is a man of faith"
I have found that it is almost impossible to argue with people who don't reason. I just don't even bother anymore--all it does it raise my blood pressure.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. I agree. ..
It's not about higher order thinking skills.

Where do you think they fall in terms of Bloom's Taxonomy? Hmmm????
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NEDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. This is a great site for fundie resources
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-04 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. gay marriage
Edited on Fri Jul-30-04 09:52 PM by SemperEadem
I asked my conservative christian mother today who she was going to vote for and she said "whoever votes for the gay marriage ban in the amendment..." I asked her "you would actually vote Bush back in office over that? How does that affect you directly?" She said "because it morally affects me and it's wrong and that's how I feel". I said "But it's none of your business--it has nothing to do with you or the validity of anyone's marriage"... and she firmed her resolve and said "well, that's how I feel..."

So I said "how sad... you would vote for a man who will force your 21 and 18 yr old granddaughters into the draft to go fight a war that you yourself have said you don't agree with.. That's freakin' pitiful." I already have issues with her without this...

What's so ironic is that she's a lifelong Democrat (70 yrs), but only been at this fundamental case stuff for about 25 yrs. She straight up hates everything that * has done to this country, but she spends most of her time watching the Christian broadcast stations and she just absorbs everything that comes out of their mouths just as if it was the very body of Christ. She truly believed that this past attempt with the gay marriage issue was going to fly.

So this isn't an issue that is totally a republican issue... she's living proof of that.
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