The Illuminati....WTF?!

[Supply Side Jesus]

Ok so I work with this guy who is extremely left, like anarchist, who swears up and down that the world is controlled by an orginization called The illuminati . Who apparently first arose around the time of The Tower of Babel :eyes: . He claims skull & bones are invovled and that Bush and Kerry are part of the illuminati and it doesn't matter who we vote for because the illuminati are incharge (even though I badgered him enough to vote for Kerry though he is a Nader supporter.)
Free-Masons are somehow involved also....which is REALLY odd, considering my Grandfather was a member till the day he died and he sure wasn't in on this world domination thing.

I tried to get him to tell me what proof exists that supports this claim, but alas I can't get a coherent answer regarding this. The guy has his heart in the right place, but Bejebus, he comes off as a total conspiracy nut.

I scanned the net for some of this proof, but not much is showing up. So I am being lazy and asking my fellow intellegent DU'ers if they have had any run ins with this 'theory' or prehaps any encounters with this vast and ancient orginization who, by the looks of things, really fucked up.

[Aftershock]

1. It really wouldn't suprise me if The Illuminati exists.

But I doubt the organizations your coworker named off are a part of it.

Who knows. :shrug:

[enigmatic]

6. The Illumintati

I'm a conspiracy buff so this stuff is candy to me...

Try some Robert Anton Wilson, David Icke, Alex Jones, Jim Marrs; they cover it pretty good, though Icke's stuff is on the other side of "out there" (though I love reading his books anyway)...

These are good webbys on this type of stuff, too:

http://www.disinfo.com/site/

http://www.members.tripod.com/uforeview/index.html

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/

Have fun!

My Station:

http://www.radioenigma.com

[ET Awful]

21. LOL . . . David Icke also has some interesting things to say

about lizard people :)

[indigobusiness]

49. There is good info here

but it tends to be taken too far, and the significance gets lost in the labyrinthine weirdness.

[Greedy Oil Puritan]

38. I believe it...

I call it the International Democrats Union. It includes right-wing parties in the USA, UK, France, Canada, Australia, South Korea, and Taiwan, among other countries.

Jesse Helms' pro-Taiwan stance? Pure hogwash! His party is affiliated with the Kuomintang.

Chirac and Bush hate each other? Bullshit.

[slutticus]

2. Only the very highest degrees of the Free Masons are involved.

33rd degree i beleive.....:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[Occulus]

4. House of Rothschild

Googling "house of Rothschild" +masons yields some interesting results.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

19. Like Jesse Helms?

http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/j/je/jesse_helms.html
:puke:

[slaveplanet]

27. above 33rd

it actually goes all the way to the 360th degree.
but very few are in this position of the pyramid,
32 and lower are usually very productive and philanthropic stand up citizens....

[BiggJawn]

39. Naw...My Grandfather was Scottish Rite...

Didn't live like a "World Dominator"...Never got visits from Henry Kissinger...

[Donkeyboy75]

3. If you want to fuck with him,

take a marker and make a fake tattoo of a 3-4-5 right-sided triangle. Make sure he sees it...

[Wonk]

5. If you don't see the fnords they can't eat you

;-)

http://www.google.com/search?q=Illuminatus+Trilogy+Robert+Anton+Wilson

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/neophile.html

Happy reading. Your mileage may vary :D

[RoyGBiv]

8. Ya know...

Part of the US Navy's "Summer Pulse" operation is maneuvers near the island of Fernando Poo. :-)

[Kellanved]

7. Not the origin of the conspiracy theory,

but the Illuminatus trilogy of novels by Robert A. Wilson is often the trigger for believers in this theory.

There is the reported case of Karl Koch, a German Hacker who believed that he was fighting the illuminati by working for the Soviets.
They later made a movie out of his story, named 23.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0126765/

[Supply Side Jesus]

9. thanks guys...

thats some interesting links to follow through. That House of Rothschild and free mason really strikes me as interesting.
I've never heard of the Illuminatus triliogy, and I thought I was aware of groundbreaking/sci-fi lit!

hey donkey, i like that triangle idea, might have to do something like that when I get alittle more info about this and all.

Still trying to figure out the Fnords....;)

[ConsAreLiars]

18. R.A.W.'s Illuminatus Trilogy

is a super mind-fuck of a book. Not a research paper or an expose so much as a bit of play by a genius who devoured all the lore and combined it (massive fact & legend content) into an alternate surreality.

Here are some links to his work:
http://www.rawilson.com/
http://www.gunsanddope.com/ (and check out the links at the bottom for even more)
http://www.maybelogic.com/
http://www.maybelogic.org/

[baldguy]

24. Isn't the Illuminatus Trilogy a *satire* of conspiracy theories?

Thats how it struck me anyway.

And NO! I'm not an Illuminati!. So, stop saying that!

[Mikimouse]

31. It was an interesting read, whether a satire or not...

I was especially intrigued by the idea of an entire army secreted at the bottom of a lake, waiting to be resurrected to fight again. Whew!

[ConsAreLiars]

66. Yes. My reading of it was that he took those theories to the max

and used them like Arthur C. Clarke uses science. Of course, using that stuff as a premise gives you a rather odd narrative. RAW used all of the facts and fantasy stuff, so the willing suspension of disbelief required of a reader of fiction could easily, for some, turn into belief, and the trilogy turned into a textbook.

However, if you look further into his writings, one thing that stands out is his strong emphasis on the creative aspect of perception and that "the map is not the territory." So I see this as a demonstration of how that works. It's been a while since I read him. I ordered the "Beyond Belief" DVD and I may just have to get the Trilogy to read again. It was quite a brain blaster the first time.

[AmyDeLune]

10. It's a Collectible Card Game too...

...like Magic the Gathering, so I guess it's not a big secret anymore...;)

[ronabop]

11. Mu.

fnord, and may all your apples be golden.

-The MGT

[Union Thug]

12. Remember, there were two George Washingtons..

Isn't Adam Weishaupt (Bavarian Conspiracy Inc.) alleged by these guys as having doubled for George Washington at some point? OOOOOHHH Awwwww...

Ewige Blumenkraft!
17

[mrfrapp]

35. Weishaupt

Yes. The accusation stems from the observation that paintings of Washington during the revolution portray a different person than is portrayed in presidential paintings. More to the point, the Washington in the presidential portraits has a striking resemblance to Weishaupt. Moreover, the belief isn't that Weishaupt "doubled" for Washington but replaced him completely, thereby allowing the Illuminati to take control of the newly formed USA. :shrug: That's the conspiracy theory anyway.

To answer Supply Side Jesus, the Bavarian Illuminati really did exist but there is no reason to suppose that it didn't disappear completely after 1785 when it was outlawed by the Bavarian government. The only evidence that it survives at all, let alone as a global conspiracy, is entirely superficial and circumstantial.

It's a interesting topic none-the-less and I heartily recommend The Illuminatus trilogy which despite being a novelisation of these conspiracy ideas, is a good a way as any to learn about this stuff.

[MI Cherie]

13. This is strange stuff!

The Illuminati
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=The+illuminati+&btnG=Google+Search

Freemasons
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&q=FreeMasons&btnG=Search

Skull & Bones
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&q=Skull+and+Bones&btnG=Search

The Bilderbergers
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&q=Bilderberg&btnG=Search

:tinfoilhat: :scared:

[the Kelly Gang]

14. as my shrink used to tell me.."anyone who isn't paranoid or doesn't know

someone is out to get them..is certainly mad !"

[hel]

15. Read "Angels and Demons" by Dan Brown

That book is all about Illuminati. Although it is fiction, there are some good real info in there.

[nonkultur]

16. They are reptillian aliens.

That is why Cheney needs so many cybernetic implants to survive.

Just like the old Tv series "V"

[SharonAnn]

17. Funny, the John Birch Society (right-wing), also believes that

the Illuminati are in control and the Birch Society is fighting against them and their plans.

Guess this means the ultra-left is the same as the ultra-right?

Or is it?

[Solomon]

22. Exactly. They control by being both sides.

[Eloriel]

51. "The best way to control the opposition...

is to lead it ourselves." -- Lenin

[Sugarbleus]

20. Ask Art Bell (lol) This "theory" has been bantied about for

YEARS!!! I'm a granny and my mother used to talk about it...the eye and pyramid on the dollar bill yadda yadda... but, ya never know, eh? :evilgrin:

[soothsayer]

23. Kerry vs * is supposed to be the Rothchilds vs the Windsor (two

illuminati families). There are 13 illuminati families, they say, fighting for domination. Plus the Japanese want in----they don't have a family. 13 families, 13 original colonies in the US (one for each of the illuminati groups)

Laugh if you will (why not? It's silly, even if true) but lots of us weren't surprised by Edwards getting the VP nod just after he had been invited to that Bilderberger conference. All kinds of players have come to noteriety after attending that thing (Clinton, Blair for instance).

[slaveplanet]

28. Interesting tidbit that

I remember listening to Coast to Coast in the lead up to the 2000 election , One guest was John Hogue the Nostradamus researcher and his prediction was for Gore to win the election. Another guest(different night) was Sean David Morton , his prediction was for Bush to BE the president. He based it on the word out of the Bilderberg meeting, they had chosen Bush* as the anointed one much to the chagrin of Clinton who was said to have raised a ruckus and then stormed out of the meeting.
On a positive note for Kerry lovers , If history plays itself out in normal fashion , the candidate with the highest pedigree in relation to royalty usually gets the nod. In this election that would be Kerry whom I've heard is from the line of King Herold of Norway????

Funny thing about the above - both predictions turned out to be true.

Bilderberg researcher Jim Tucker is on the record as a stating the Iraq invasion would begin in Feb/March 2003 time frame as early as summer 2002 based on word out of the BB meetings. It was pushed back from the original summer 2002 time frame.

[ck4829]

25. The truth about the Illuminati

They were a real group at one time, they were exactly known as the 'Bavarian Illuminati'. I can't find where that site is now. However the country they were based in made a law declaring secret socities illegal, and so they were dismantled.

I sill think there are Societies bent on World Domination/Destruction, there is one for example that is called the GOP.

[DeaconBlues]

26. Come on people, the Illuminati don't exist!

The Knights of Malta, however, are a different story. Those bastards rule the world!

[LTR]

29. More reading

http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/illuminati/

Satisfy more of your conspiracy theories here:

http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/

[G_j]

30. clearly an exotic blend of fact and fiction

keep most people from taking the whole concept seriously.
And that is no doubt to the advantage of some. :tinfoilhat:

[porphyrian]

32. All Hail Discordia!

n/t

[Kazak]

40. There's no prob with Bob.

;)

[greekspeak]

33. Freemasonry...hated by left and right alike!

I am glad I am not involved in Freemasonry. I cannot think of another group which both right and left hate with equal vigour. Seems like any time there is a conspiracy theory, or a theory involving world domination, the freemasons are at the center. Fundamentalists are obsessed with them as a satanic or pagan organization. Lefties think they are some sort of uber-fascists bent on ruling the world. Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess.

[blm]

34. "not much is showing up" ???? Impossible.

Hard to believe.

[WoodrowFan]

36. he has mental issues

it sounds like he has some mental issues to me. Total fantasy world...

[vetwife]

37. I know a little about freemasonry and connecting to illumaniti

That thing is real .....it is part of the shadow government that no one believed in. I am not a CT. I won't go there much on topic because people would not believe about the powers of the rich and powerful. My Dad was a 3rd degree Mason for years and it is a cult, and mind you, they tap ministers to become Masons. When my Dad got older he was awakened by how cultish and wrong it was by my husband.
when I went to Tennessee back in the 80's, my Dad gave me a phone number of his local Masonic hall..(yes it includes the family) and told me if I needed anything to call the Tenn. local Masonic Hall. Well my ex husband needed a job and we had a few needs, I was recovering from Cancer but no one up there knew that. I made a phone call and said I was a Mason's daughter and yes there was a code word. Within 1 hour my little trailer was descending upon by two freemasons with a job, money, and groceries. I though that was so kind. Kind it was, but now it scares the devil out of me. I never saw these people again and I offered to pay back. I have seen my uncles get our of paying tickets for speeding, who are also masons, I have seen judges be swayed over a handshake and it is real. And its all tied to Freemasonry which is HUGE in the South. The poor has the Masons..The rich have the thing that you all are calling the Ilumaniti but which ever, they are all connected and they have been around longer than us. They run everything. Do you have any idea how many masons are country music stars in Nashville? I do. Almost all of them. The ladies are the Eastern Star and the kids are called Rainbows. Mel Tillis is a 33rd degree Mason.

[Ysabel]

42. oh my...!

they brought you groceries...!?

scary...!!!

[vetwife]

44. The grocery part is not what scared me...The 200 dollars and job did

My husband studied Freemasonry and was devoutly against it. He even before becoming disabled infiltrated their little order. He got the scoop on everything they do. He knew the handshake, the code words, and had my Dad completely fooled and remember he was a musician for years in Nashville, he then spent a lot of his time talking to Masons like by Father to leave the order. It is brainwashing pure and simple. They are bigots, and they are fundamentalists and they tend to be very afraid of leaving the Masons but if you don't pay your money dues they don't mind kicking you to the side. My Father is a democrat and won't have anything todo with that sheepskin apron or the masons anymore. They do everything in the name of God. Ask any mason when you are questioning their honesty, Will you stand on the square in the East on that? They will tell you the truth. I promise, even those who left the order will lower their head before answering. I learned that from my husband as well who was NEVER a mason.

[WoodrowFan]

58. those FIENDS!!! (NT)

[DemBones DemBones]

48. I was a Rainbow and must clarify that the Order of

the Rainbow is for teenaged girls only. There's another Masonic order for girls, Job's Daughters, I think. Boys may join the Order of DeMolay. I think you have to have a relative who's a Mason to get in these orders but I could be wrong. My father was a Mason, like his father before him, and my mother had a grandfather who was a Shriner. Both my father and my father-in-law quit the Masons after a few years.

We never planned to dominate the world. We had a "secret ritual," we did good deeds, we had parties and dances, just like the Masons.


"And now I've broken all my vows to DeMolay" -- line in a Jerry Jeff Walker song

[Domitan]

52. Granted there are lots of disinformation all over the place

it is still foolish to dismiss all the pieces of this "secret society" puzzle as pure fabrication. I see two kinds of fools here:

1) Those who assert extreme claims as absolute fact such as that there being lizard beings/Greys infiltrating humanity in order to gain world domination.

and

2) Those who dismiss every single tidbit of conspiracy theories as absolute fabrication, especially without doing any investigative work of their own.

We are given glimpses into the world's happenings, and it is up to us to use our reason to determine what is valid and what is shit as well as being honest enough to go "hmmm" if we cannot determine for sure either way.

[WoodrowFan]

56. your tinfoil hat seems a little tight

it seems to be cutting off the oxgyen to your brain. maybe loosing it a tad would help.

bye bye

[Domitan]

57. You are not a thinker

you're just a lazy pseudo-skeptic.

[WoodrowFan]

59. no

I'm a professional historian with a Ph.D. in history. and this is like listening to creationists ranting about science. All heat, no light, and no ACTUAL knowledge.

bye bye/.

[Domitan]

60. Well, you can do better than that

Why not use logic, evidence-gathering, and sound arguments to successfully refute other arguments or observations? Are you willing to do that sometimes? I'll lay out some points (only in political and historical areas), and would eagerly await your answers.

I'll be back in a couple days or so, but I hope you'd not dismiss this without knowing your audience.

[Wednesdays]

41. Some fundie preacher was on this...

late Thursday night, a few hours after Kerry's speech, I was in my car and I surfed the AM dial to see if there were any positive comments about the speech. Well, I happened upon a crackly, faint station from somewhere in the plains states (I'm in Oklahoma). It identified itself as the "Truckers' Radio Network." :shrug:

Anyway, there was a fundie preacher ranting about the Illuminati, saying that Karl Marx and Vlad Lenin were part of the Illuminati conspiracy for a world government, and that socialists worshiped Lucifer and were behind the conspiracy. Then he pointed out that this was all prophecied in chapter 3 of the Book of Revelations.

[Maestro]

43. Whoa!

Way out there man....

[Sven77]

45. Bohemian Grove and CFR

nobody mentioned Bohemian Grove and CFR (Council on Foreign Relations). There is a World Government, and its not for the benefit of the people. They want to enslave us all.

http://www.infowars.com/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/

[enigmatic]

68. Bohemian Grove!

The Bohemian Grove fascinates me, enouh to consider trying to get a job there for a time. I saw Alex Jones' video on the BG, and it's totally bizarre stuff..

[wyldwolf]

46. ha ha! Are you sure this guy isn't a DU'er?

Same conspiracy crap is thrown around here often.

I tried to get him to tell me what proof exists that supports this claim, but alas I can't get a coherent answer regarding this.

Yep! Sounds real familiar.

Belief in this has almost become religious-like. Small amounts of truth gets passed on and added to and exaggerated and frabricated and viola! A religious belief!

[jcldragon]

47. Hail Eris!

My Grandfather was a 33rd Degree Mason. He was a Presbyterian Minister, as well. He supported Norman Thomas of the Socialist Party. He was doing Civil Rights work in the 20s & 30s. He was a Pacifist, and was called before the House Committee on UN-American Activities, but he refused to attend, and later on, they backed off...

[Selwynn]

50. (hums theme to the twilight zone) :)

[Domitan]

53. The *alleged* gospel of the Freemasons

An imperfect God created an imperfect world. Imperfect humans are slaves trapped in this imperfect world. It is the humans' duty to make this world perfect.
---------------------


Think about this stated "gospel"...think of the philosophies behind many of human's so-called progress on this earth. Think of what has been declared as progress throughout history. Should you be elated or frightened? Think about this closely.

[jus_the_facts]

54. Previous thread entitled....Deep Background....forget the tin foil.....

....and read this chronology of historic events. :evilfrown:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1095506

[Domitan]

55. Much appreciated

I remember reading a lot of what you posted. I like reading articles where only the facts are shown, which makes for much more powerful cases. However, it's fun to seek the missing links between the facts and the "tinfoil" tidbits.

[jus_the_facts]

61. snip)Prescott Bush* gains controlling interest in CBS between 1931-39....

....it was the CORPORATE MEDIA long before there was such a thing as a television station or set....yet so many are still shocked and awed at how the media behaves today....democracy has been used as a FRONT by these bastards and we the people their pawns for over a centruy and counting... :nopity:


1931-1939

Special Committee on Un-American Activities begins to investigate anti-semitic literature, fascist groups and Nazi propaganda in US;

Prescott Bush gains controlling interest in CBS;

Howard Hughes;

J. Edgar Hoover manipulates press and politicians, lives the high life;

Hitler enters government with legal help from Dulles brothers and financial help of Bush/Harriman;

the spread of 'Christian Fascist' groups;

radio evangelism broadcasts hatred of Jews, Communism and Roosevelt;

[jus_the_facts]

64. KICK

:nopity:

[QERTY]

62. Another Great Information Clearinghouse On This

www.crank.net

Quite a fine site. If you ask me, a web site isn't any good unless its front page is 10 miles long and is in a very harsh typeface!
Find out about this supposed "elite" we keep hearing about.
They have a vast section on the illuminati.

[bobthedrummer]

63. The inner Party members of the Third Reich were magicians of

the darkside, according to the ancient occult rituals, traditions and ideologies they practised and had faith in.

Lt. Col. Michael Aquino has influenced the culture of US Army MI, PsyOps, and the Defense Intelligence Agency. When he wasn't preserving US national security he was a priest in the former Church of Satan ministering to the US Armed Forces.

In 1975, while listed as active duty, Lt. Col. Michael Aquino absorbed the internally divided Church of Satan into the foundation of his own cult/religion The Temple of Set.

It doesn't matter if you believe in a spiritual dimension or not when you consider the facts that Michael Aquino and his wife, Lillith, were investigated-but not arrested in The Presidio molestation case; Michael Aquino was cited by many in the Franklin Credit callboy scandal; as a young US Army PsyOps officer Michael Aquino was part of the illegal domestic suppression of US political dissidents during MH CHAOS (imo and life experience he replicated Charles Manson model "families" in 1969).

You can take it to the bank, here and now.

[nonkultur]

65. No matter who wins the election this year.

The Illuminati wins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones

[Murdock]

67. A couple of quotes...

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." -President Woodrow Wilson


The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes.
Felix Frankfurter (Former Supreme Court Justice)

[geek tragedy]

69. Entertaining fiction, nothing more. eom

[nose pin]

70. Just look on the back of a dollar bill

The proof is all right there, hidden in plain sight.