Why are we letting the phony attacks about the $87 billion go unanswerd?

[rumguy]

This is one of the main pubbie talking points right now. I hear it constantly, both from GOP party leaders and their followers. Why hasn't someone smacked this down? It wouldn't be hard to do.

1. Kerry voted for fiscal responsibility, not against the troops.

2. Bush threatened to veto if he didn't get the exact version of the bill he wanted. In other words, he would have done the same thing Kerry did!

3. If you want to hand out goodies to your corporate pals you don't do it on the backs of American soldiers.

4. It was a matter of principle, of standing up for responsible government. And remember, polls at the time showed that a majority of the American people agreed with Kerry's vote.

So why isn't anyone out there smacking down this gross distortion of the truth?

The only thing I can think is that the Kerry campaign is smarter than I am, and they are waiting for the debates or later on to totally dismantle this talking point, and that the want to pubs to totally embrace this talking point before blowing it out of the water.

But I feel it must be dealt with, this meme is everywhere these days. In addition, by batting this meme down you would be exposing the corrupt message the pukes are peddling.

So why is our party silent on this matter? It's driving me nuts.

[stewert]

1. I'm Not........

I have the dbunker facts on that vote on the front page of my web site. And I am getting 1100 to 1800 hits a day right now, so almost 2000 people a day are seeing the truth from my web site alone.

[rumguy]

3. Do you ever hear any of our people in the mainstream media deal with it?

I haven't.

In fact, last night I was reading an account here on DU of the new Maher show. Of course the pubs on it kept bringing up the $87 billion. Moore didn't answer it. Maher half-heartedly tried to but didn't finish. Why not go for the kill on this issue. Why not totally blow them the fuck out of the water?

[Bush was AWOL]

8. We can point out the facts

but the bottom line will be that Kerry voted against it. You are right, though, fighting back would be better than becoming silent whenever this is brought up. Atleast explain that there were two bills.

[emulatorloo]

16. Strangely Chris Matthews was calling Ed Gillespie/RNC on it on Thurs nite

I didn't see the whole segment, but Matthews seems to have finally gotten it.

[mckara]

2. I Agree

We need to expose this lie and put it to rest.

[iamjoy]

4. It Is Nonsense

I don't know why we haven't heard more on this from the Democrats/Kerry camp.

I found myself wondering, "wait a minute, you mean President Bush sent those soldiers over there without proper equipment?"

Also, I hear many still don't have body armor, but the $87 billion passed. So where did our money go?


And during the debates, when asked about the $87 billion John Edwards said he voted against it because he thought if it failed that President Bush would come back to Congress and discuss how we were fighting the war.

[rumguy]

5. Maybe the Kerry camp is waiting for the debate to address it

It could be a real gotcha moment if Kerry plays it right. He could say 'how dare you accuse me of not supporting the troops', and then list out the real reasons he voted against it.

Maybe they want the Bushies to tottaly wed themselves to this talking point, so they can dramatically blow it out of the water during and after the debates.

All I know, is that this is their MAIN talking point right now. It is everywhere.

[slor]

23. I hope you are right...

because your strategy would be the debate equivalent of a "nukuler bomb" on chimpy-chimp.

[AlinPA]

6. If a portion of the $87B ended up in any checks written to Halliburton,

then its pretty easy to just say just that.

[Cha]

7. The callers on c-span aren't letting them go unanswered..there

was a caller from New York this morning who said the repub callers should get their facts straight before they call in with phoney info and the $87 billion was a prime example. And then she went on to explain how bush wouldn't tell where the money was coming from or rescind the tax cut to the wealthiest % to pay for it.

[rumguy]

10. Why is this issue left to the callers on C-Span?

Kerry has to stand up and defend his honor. If he doesn't, he will lose.

[Cha]

15. I imagine he will.

Thanks for getting it out there.

[Bozita]

9. Nostamj is gonna bring it up on the Guy James Show

Show's starting now.

[flasun]

11. the way the senate works

He knew there were enough votes. It was going to pass, His was a protest vote. If it were a close vote, both he and Edwards would have voted for it.....and the press KNOWS THAT.

[rumguy]

Kerry can't rely on the press

He has to do it himself.

[iamjoy]

Not A Protest Vote

At least, not for Edwards. He specifically said that in one of the primary debates (New Hampshire, I think).

Although, maybe we're just mincing words here. He said he voted against it because he disapproved with the way the war had been handled and didn't want to keep giving President Bush blank checks.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nostamj]

12. also being discussed here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2122991&mesg_id=2122991

I totally agree and EVERY Dem surrogate should be hitting this and hitting it HARD

I will try to raise it on Guy James later too...

[kentuck]

13. Kerry did not want the $450 billion dollar deficits....

That $87 billion is part of that deficit. Yes, Kerry would have voted for it if his vote was a deciding factor. It wasn't. However, he and others were attempting to bring it to the people's attention that Bush was going to spend the Social Security trust fund to pay for the "extra" $87 billion rather than roll back just a bit of his huge tax breaks for the wealthy. But Bush threatened to veto it if that was the case. He was the one that was ready to deny the funding that he now says the troops needed. However, at first he said, the oil revenues would pay for the war but then he turned around and said, "No, I fucked up. We need another $87 billion..." If you haven't figured out that George W Bush is a liar by now, I feel for you...

[Eric J in MN]

14. We can't tell the Kerry campaign what to do, we can only

email reporters ourselves.

From
http://www.moveleft.com/moveleft_essay_2004_07_22_respond_to_bush_deceit_about_the_87_billion_for_Iraq.asp


Some points you can include such an email:

1) Bush said he would veto the $87 billion if part of the money were a loan.

2) The bill was so unpopular that the US Senate voted for the final version by secret voice vote, November 3, 2003.

3) The $87 billion included $20 billion for reconstruction, it wasn't all for as a Bloomberg headline implies.

4) A 53 page report-only 53 pages!-was submitted by the Bush Administration to Congress to explain where the money would go No business would pay $87 billion to a partner based on a 53 page outline.

[emulatorloo]

17. Letters to the Editor, too. . . . . .n/t

[emulatorloo]

18. More ammunition from Factcheck . . . clean de-bunking w links to docs

http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=155

snip

Announcer: And what does Kerry say now?


Kerry: I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it



Kerry was referring to a measure he co-sponsored that would have provided the $87 billion while also temporarily reversing Bush's tax cuts for those making $400,000 a year or more. That measure was rejected  57-42.

snip

[rumguy]

20. perfect

thanks

[Capn Sunshine]

19. This is the vaunted "get the swing vote " strategy

which is expressed as "don't fight back, you might sound too harsh and scare them away."
It's exactly why I didn't want a DC insider to get the nomination.

I hope they wake up before it's too late.

Fortunately at this very moment the numbers are on our side. Will this continue is the question.

[Disturbed]

21. Perception vs Reality.

The Bush Regime is constantly putting forth lies &/or half truths. I feel that the Dems must counter everyone of those immediately and not wait for the lies &/or half truths to become perceptions. The Bush Regime strategy is to put forth all that they can in misperceptions and put the Dems on the defensive. The Dems must be assertive yet not agressive in countering this strategy and then within the countering of the Bushit go on the assertive offensive and state what the Dem issue is in a simple manner. Allowing the Bush Regime to frame any debate is a mistake.

[erpowers]

24. Kerry Has Responded

I agree with everyone that Kerry and his campaign need to respond more, but he responded at least once. He was on the Imus show one day and Imus asked him about the $87 billion and Kerry responded by telling Imus that Kerry and other Democrats wanted to pay for the war by reversing part of Bush tax cut. Kerry said that Bush then said he would veto the bill if part of the tax cut was reversed.

[rumguy]

25. kick - because this issue is important

it's important cuz when we knock down this lame talking point the pukes will have nothing left...

[John_H]

26. uh.....fear? risk-aversion? Why not just say?

I wish the Bush campaign would stop lying about this. I voted for every dime that went to the troops--67 billion dollars. It's right there in the record. I voted against the extra 20 billion that I knew the Bush administration would waste. And guess what? I was right. They wased every dime of it."

There, Kerry Kiddies, is that so hard?

[HootieMcBoob]

27. Joe Biden was asked on Meet The Press

And he blew it.

He didn't address the question! It's such a freaking easy question to shoot down and I have never seen anyone answer it properly, even a senior guy on Kerry's campaign last week blew it.

Here's the answer: He did vote for it!

He voted for the bill that would have paid for it. It would have tracked the money and assured that it was honestly accounted for. Unfortunately Bush made it clear that if it passed he would veto it and every Republican voted against it and it lost. The bill he voted against and the one The President signed gave no assurance as to what would be done with the money and didn't pay for itself. As a result the soldiers still don't have the proper equipment or armor and soldiers family's are having bake sales to pay for the body armor for their kids while we have no idea what happened to the $87,000,000,000.

C'mon people get it together! This one is easy!