Military is "most corrupt institution in history"?

[democracyindanger]

The past few months some posters have described the military--and I'm assuming they mean the US military in particular, because they never elaborate--as "the most corrupt institution" in history. Unsurprisingly, this occurs in threads about a possible Clark candidacy.

After bearing this in post after post, I've decided to put on my asbestos underwear and say to these folks: Shut the hell up.

Just from a logical viewpoint, your reasoning is screwy. If you want to pick out corruption in the US government, the CIA is light years beyond any of the armed services in that category. Hell, even Congress is worse.

Am I saying that the US military is pure as the driven snow? Nope. But hyperbole like "the most corrupt institution in history" is ridiculous, and quite frankly, insults all the people--many of them liberals--that serve. I wonder what you people would say if DU's Hawker were to run for office. Would you treat him with as much suspicion and contempt just because he served in the Navy?

You want to hate Clark? Fine. Attack his viewpoints. But suggesting that he's unfit to be an elected official purely because he's a military man is as prejudiced and silly a position as those who whine that actors should keep their mouths shut about politics. Hell, you wanna know about corruption? Try getting a studio to make your feature.

Sheesh. And people wonder why military folks lean Repugnican.

Full disclosure: I am not, nor have I ever been, in the armed forces. And while I like Clark, I like Kerry and Dean and Kucinich, too. I'm just sick of this tinfoil hat "all military people are absolute evil" garbage.

[sujan]

1. there's something else thats equally corrupt

organized religion.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IranianDemocrat]

5. All you religion bashers do is generalize.

ALL religion sucks.
ALL religion is corrupt.
ALL Catholics are evil.

etc.

[sujan]

6. so do you

all religions are awesome
all religions are virtuous
all catholics are saints

etc.

[IranianDemocrat]

11. Hey pal I never bashed anyone!

Do I think all religions are awesome? No.
Are all religions virtuous? No.
Are all Catholics good people? No. But I would bet my life that at least 90% of the true ones are.

Why are you so vitrolic in your hate of religion. Religion gives me comfort and peace in my life. It gives me that quiet time I yearn for in my busy life. It gives me one hour a weak where I can gather with people who profess the same faith as me. Maybe you should try something similar some time.

[sujan]

14. read the history books

and come back to me. OK? I reserve the right to bash everything as long as I have facts. The facts in this case are on myside. Organized religion is evil, especially their leaders.

[MiltonLeBerle]

19. "ALL religion sucks. ALL religion is corrupt. ALL Catholics are evil."

Can I quote you on that?

[MiltonLeBerle]

12. and The Catholic Church has a very big headstart over our military-

we've only been a country for 227 years.

[JVS]

17. When I first saw "most corrupt institution in history"

I was just waiting for that one to show up. You win a cookie!

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. I think generalizations about the military are usually short sighted

Unfortunately people don't distinguish the military from the military industrial complex and of course, anyone worth their salt in the military is usually offered a position in the MIC or the CIA but not all take them up on it.

I wouldn't even paint the entire CIA with a broad brush. The need for defense and reliable intelligence are real. That they can be abused in nothing new.

That said, some of the most honorable people I have ever known were in the field of military, intelligence and YES politics.

[silverweb]

9. Well said.

"I think generalizations about the military are usually short sighted."

To take your statement one step further, I think generalizations about most things are short sighted.

Words not to use when trying to have a reasoned, logical discussion: All, none, every, always, never... and whatever other words you can think of that denote any form of absolutism.

Just imho, of course.

:hippie:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. touche!

thanks

[atreides1]

7. Well I was in The Military, and some Parts Are Corrupt

I was in the military for 13 years, and no we are not pure as the driven snow, but most of us still consider integrity to be one of the
most important things that we were taught. Along with taking responsibility for your actions.

There is corruption in the military, and greed. If you look at the history behind the Bradley fighting vehicle, you will see just a small
part, or the M-16 rifle when it made its debut in Vietnam.

With the Bradley, if it had not been for the integrity and personal courage of an USAF Lt Colonel, our casualties during the first Gulf
War would have been horrendous. The armor was not capable of withstanding a direct hit from a 20mm shell, but no one wanted to "rock the boat"

As for the M-16 rifle, I am sure that some of the Vietnam vets on this
board can testify about how the gun would jam. One of the main reasons
was because of the type of powder used in the ammunition.

There is some of the corruption that has permeated the military.

As for the modern military, right now the evidence shows that integrity, and responsibility are not important. At least not to the
Chain of Command.

I don't believe that the military is corrupt, but I do believe that the hand picked Generals are. Their loyalty is to Bush and Rumsfeld,
and not to the Constitution, or The Bill of Rights. A few weeks ago
at least a dozen Generals and Admirals were given their retirement papers and put out to pasture, the main reason is because they were
seen as being "old school" and more then likely to be a hinderance for
the way that Rumsfeld and his hand picked retired Field Marshal want
the military to become.

So don't blame the troops, lay the blame where it belongs with the politicians and the corrupt military Chain of Command.

[recidivist]

26. Re: the M-16.

As I recall, the Army Ordnance Bureau was not ready to approve the M-16 in 1965. The rifle was still in development and the jamming problem was exactly what they were working on. Of course, they were still in a peacetime mode and suddenly LBJ had us in a big war.

This was not a corruption issue. Someone high in the chain of command demanded that the rifle be fielded, problems and all, on the grounds that it was still better than what we had. So to the field it went, even though it was not fully debugged. That was a clear command decision. An indeterminate number of grunts -- there were a couple of highly publicized incidents, but the numbers involved were not large -- died because their rifles jammed in close combat situations. How many more survived because the M-16 was a superior weapon overall can never be determined.

Was the tradeoff worth it? I dunno. Delay kills, too.

[SmileyBoy]

8. One thing's for sure: It's the largest socialist entity in the world.

And that's the truth.

Tell that to a fascist, mouth-breathing right-wing neocon, and see what their reaction is.

On edit: I'm not saying that the military is bad, or anything. On the contrary, in these social world-wide times, I feel it is absolutely necessary for our military to exist. I'm just pointing out more right-wing hypocrisy...

[TAH6988]

21. Spent 25 years in the military

It is socialist in many respects.

[rman]

25. obviously the problem isn't the military itself, but corruption

in this particular case "corrupt military" is the problem.
(same with politics; the fact that it is corrupt doesn't mean politics as a whole has to be abandoned, just the corruption.)

though i'd say the military is part of a sceme of corruption. imo saying that just the military is corrupt is underestimating the scope of the problem.

just about everything related to the military is (being) privatized; hence it is called the military-industrial complex. this exists in part because of regulations made by (certain) politicians - politicians who where employed the military-industrial complex before they became politicians - and who often do return to M/I when their career as politician has ended, in order to profit from the legislation they past as politician (haliburton, carlyle group).

[The Lone Liberal]

10. Most of those you denigrate did not have your advantage

Or, your social status. They were middle-class or working class who believed the lie that there was a dream that said every American could be all they worked to be. God love the elitist of the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. May they some day remember that it is the working class that the party championed throughout the 20th century. Otherwise, the hard-hats, rednecks, and working men will continue to vote for those who pretend to care about them.

[knight_of_the_star]

15. If it was

Then we would have been walked on during this little invasion of Iraq.

[Octafish]

16. The US military is one of the main reasons we're a free nation.

Along with the men and women in government service and the loyal citizens of all political stripes:

The US military beat the fascists in World War 2.

They beat the commies in the Cold War.

They stayed loyal to the Constitution of the United States even when Smirko went bazerko after 9-11.

And that's why the Bush Organized Crime Family hasn't had another 9-11 come our way so they can send all us DUers to Gitmo — the military is there to remind him and Sneer that that would be against the law.

[el_gato]

20. Read Gen. Smedley Butlers' WAR IS A RACKET

WAR IS A RACKET

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

So while most of the soldiers feel they are doing their duty for god and country or whatever, the truth is the manipulators (i.e. the masters of war) are very corrupt indeed.

[Octafish]

22. Thanks, el gato. Gen. Butler also saved the country from fascists.

I am most familiar with the late Gen. Butler and his work. Did you know he won the Medal of Honor twice? And, yes, he was spot-on accurate in his assessment of the interests he fought for.

One more thing, Gen. Butler was a loyal American. His testimony was instrumental in putting down a coup against FDR. The traitors included members of the American “aristocracy” who wanted to overthrow FDR. Names and organizations associated with the plot included DuPont, Morgan/Stanley and General Motors. Not many people know the story:


A review by Dale Wharton

Dale Wharton is a retired computer programmer who writes two-page (900 word) book reviews as a hobby. He was a seaman in the US Navy at the end of WWII. He received his B.A. in Journalism from the University of Missouri in 1949.

The Plot to Seize the White House
by Jules Archer

Hawthorn Books: New York
244 pp.

EXCERPT…

… Why would a cabal of capitalists--conspirators of enormous wealth-- approach such a man? Because they knew veterans revered him; he never ordered anything done he would not do himself. Grunts, noncoms, and combat officers believed Butler was their friend. Forty times, envoys of Wall Street tried to persuade him to lead a coup d'etat.

The instigators wanted a putsch commander who could mobilize 500,000 soldiers overnight. These would make up a paramilitary force, to take form as the American Liberty League. Its pattern was a French veterans' group, the Croix de Feu. (The backers studied then rejected two other models of veterans' organization that fascists had used in taking power: Mussolini's blackshirts and Hitler's brownshirts.)

The reason for the plot was the election of President Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR), a member of the same ruling circles as the cabal itself. March 5, 1933--the day after his inauguration--FDR embargoed the export of gold and declared a national bank holiday. He told the "Hundred Days Congress" to enact a New Deal into law. In striving against the Depression, FDR awakened hope in the American people, but he appalled bankers and industrialists. Who would pay for this New Deal? The rich feared changes to the US system of finance, a rise in taxes, possibly even (Heaven forbid!) socialism.

Rumours of the plot reached Washington, where the Committee on Un- American Activities (CUAA)--was already exposing fascist intrigues. Its cochairmen were John McCormack (D MA) and Samuel Dickstein (D NY). CUAA got in touch with Smedley Butler: did the general have anything to tell them? After prying out all the plans he could, Butler asked a friend, an experienced newsman, to confirm the whole incredible scheme. The reporter visited twice with an agent of the conspirators (a wounded Marine vet) and set down his findings…

MORE…

http://www.eclectica.org/v1n1/reviews/wharton_plot.html

[RichM]

23. There's MUCH wrong with the military, but "corrupt" is not the right word.

As far as corruption goes, the CIA, both political parties, and Wall Street are all light years ahead of the military per se. The military-industrial complex is at the heart of what's wrong with America -- but that does not mean that there's anything corrupt about military commanders.

What's wrong with the military is that the way US society uses them is utterly dishonest. If all the military did was "protect Americans," there would be no problem. However, what they really do (as made clear by Gen Smedley Butler) is function as a private army on behalf of US corporate interests. The actions Butler participated in, in the early 20th century, benefitted not US citizens overall, but merely sugar, banking & rum interests. Ditto the recent atrocity in Iraq.

It's not quite right to call the military themselves "corrupt." The corruption lies, rather, in the chain of relationships between the Pentagon and big business, in Washington DC, & in the media (who prepare the propaganda background making US military action seem acceptable to the public).

[rman]

24. let's not forget their henchmen the industrial complex and politics

.

[enki23]

27. that bit of hyperbole is almost as bad

as 1)your assumption that it's a commonly-held opinion, and 2) your hyperbolic denunciation of it.

a person could spend all day every day ranting against random parsings from DU posts. not only would this be pointless, but it could easily be construed as an attempt to make the site look bad.