Are we watching the beginning of the decline of the Conservative Movement?

[kentuck]

That started with Ronald Reagan? And was promoted and continued by right wing radio and the demise of the Fairness Doctrine...But they don't realize yet that they are in decline? Have they had their 15 minutes of fame? Unfortunately for the rest of America, their 15 minutes lasted 24 years.

Or do you think they will continue to expand their power into the future? I think they are sliding as we speak and they have no idea how far they will slide. If John Kerry wins this election, and I suspect and hope fervently that he does, it will be a devastating blow to the right wing religious crusade that was started by Ronald Reagan and reached its apex with the Reverend Dubya C Wertz...

[Must_B_Free]

1. It started on the 1 year anneversary of "Mission Complete"

the buzzer rang and the time ran out. Nice try, but you lose, Bush.

It was a house of cards destined to fall.

[rumguy]

2. It is dying

I just can't wait to spit on the corpse.

[DemWitch]

3. When Kerry is elected

it will be the rallying cry to all the conservatives, just as the Shrubya Debacle of 2000 was for us progressives. The midterms of 2006 and elections of 2008 are going to be battlefields... if we can manage to keep united and not split into our factions, not become complacent, we might have a chance to really turn things around after that. But no doubt, Kerry's election will electrify the right wing into action.

[jdj]

4. yeah, this is why it surprises me when people get all out of

joint over coulter, et al, and say they wish these folks would shut up.

Truthfully, the left needs these nutjobs running their mouths to beat the band, and the more john or jane q. public watches people they used to think were "moderates like them" or whatever seem to agree and support the fascists, the more they will disassociate themselves from these folks (eventually). The more big-mouth racist fascist nutjobs getting play right now the better.

They did "man on the street" survey on TV Guide channel about Linda Rondstadt yesterday, and unless they edited (it's possible they are fans, I suppose) NOT ONE PERSON criticized her. They all said the same thing, this is a free country, people should be able to speak their minds. The further out of the mainstream these fascist folks fling themselves, the better.

[Arroyo]

8. You raise a good point.

Aren't today's crop of "conservatives" (i.e., reactionary extremists) kept alive by life support eagerly administered by the media and others?

[newyawker99]

32. Hi Arroyo!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[sendero]

20. I agree completely...

... these folks get lost in their own echo chamber. Truthfully, the left had a very analogous situation in the 70s that led to the rise of the right.

They listen to each other spout off, repeat the approved talking points and hear them day in and day out in the media. They start believing their own bullshit. Then psychos like Coulter and Weiner start raising the bar.

It takes time, but middle Americans start noticing this. The 30% core fascist electorate contingent eats this crap up, but that is not enough to win elections. More and more people start seeing just how far from reality they are, and they start losing elections.

As for the right being energized by Bush*'s defeat - I say "maybe". In my opinion, they are already running at full throttle. No doubt, the usual bad actors will immediately start trying to pull a Clinton on Kerry, but I think they will find it tough going this time around. Without special abuse prosecutors, there will be no venue for their bullshit allegations to be heard.

[cthrumatrix]

34. rw conservatism is not mainstream...control thru media was the only hope

[kodi]

5. i refer to it not as conservative, but as reaganist.

reaganist doctrine describes the path to a utopian society as dependent upon capitalism and oligarchy control of the economy and state functions. weberian protestant work ethic rhetoric coalescing with religious fundamentalism masks the a-ethical intent of those who want control over the economy.

this group of artful dodgers want to use the power of the state, need the power of the state to ensure that their economic interests are maintained.

that is about as conservative as hitler's national socialism was socialist.

the current crop of republicans are hardly conservative. they are the most radical group who have haunted congress since thaddeus stevens and the reconstruction congress under the republicans in the late 1860's.

[blackcat77]

6. No, but I do think we're seeing the end of the NeoCons

They grabbed the conservative banner and the Republican party as a whole and I think that the PeleoCons and a lot of ordinary Republican voters have just about had enough of the outrageous deficits, the imposition of religion, the reckless foreign policy, and the overall banality of the bunch that is currently running the show at the RNC. This election could end up being a repudiation of the PNACians on a very serious level, and if it is, look for the '08 Republican party to go a whole new direction -- one less southern, less fundamentalist and less foolhardy.

That would be a party that even a lot of us here on DU could respect, even if we didn't agree with them.

[Merlin]

7. Nay, this is not The End. It... It is not even the Beginning of The End...

...But perhaps it IS... the End of the Beginning.
--Churchill

Don't know, kentuck. But we sure as hell better beat these bastards. Because if they win, I hate to think how their sick ideas will get written into the character of the country.

[K-W]

9. Its really coming down to that or facism.

I dont know know where to cast my bets now.

[DieboldMustDie]

10. The Conservative Movement didn't start with Ronald Reagan...

it dates back at least to Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential bid, or perhaps to the founding of The National Review in the '50s. Kerry's election is essential, but it's only a start; we also need the Congress. Even then, they own the media and most of the nation's wealth. We cannot be complacent; I expect this struggle to last at least 20 years. :grr:

[Pushed To The Left]

11. It depends on how Nov. 2nd goes..

If Kerry comes out on top, then we could very well be seeing an end to the religious right's influence in politics. I have a feeling that the Republicans might make a move to the middle if the socially conservative approach doesn't win this election. Just imagine how great it would be if the religious right had nobody to represent them anymore! If they started their own party, they would just split the conservative vote and help Democrats!

However, if Bush wins on Nov. 2nd, we could be stuck with the far-right for a long time, especially with the Supreme Court situation being what it is. If this happens, I think all progressives and moderates should each donate $100 or whatever they can afford to the ACLU on Nov. 3, even if they don't always agree with them. If the millions of Kerry voters all did this on the same day, it would send the religious right and those that voted them into office a powerful message that they weren't going to be able to push their right-wing agenda without a fight!

Whether it's with a Kerry/Edwards victory in November or with an ACLU-led beatdown, the religious right/social conservative movement must be eliminated once and for all!

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Better Yet. . .

. . .it may cause the RNC to rethink their political philosophy. There could be nothing better, no matter which party, for us to not have any more empty suits running for office.

If worked for them with Reagan, but the two Bush boys failing in a row, and the latter the emptiest of suits, might get them to develop a strategy by which a good, informed, and intelligent man gets the nomination rather than a sock puppet with the IQ of a turnip.
The Professor

[chicagojoe]

12. As creepy as it seems...

...I would LOVE to be the "Limbaugh" or "Hannity" of the Progressives.
I would LOVE to just pound away at the Neo-Cons day after day after day. And I would not be very nice, either !!!

[JSJ]

13. conservatism is dying- only to be replaced by...

...full-blown authoritative fascism.

And ruefully, Kerry's election won't put a damper on it's rise.

[oscar111]

14. Air America - subsidize it, DNC, aflcio

Media is the key. we let the reaganites rise because we
were a

"Party without a voice."

AA is key to our return. Pressure for subsidies from DNC and AFLCIO,those of you with connections there.

We need AA to grow into all

1. battleground states
2. opponent strongholds, like Southern states.

Mainstream media gives us soundbites, never hours to explain in depth, as Rush does. Isnt all this obvious? Welfare's reason for existence has NEVER been explained to me... nor many other LW programs... WPA, food stamps, etc. I figured it out on my own, many are not able to. AA would explain such to others in this land.

[bushwakker]

15. Kerry must win for the bloodbath to start

The GOP is beset by internal divides but as long as they maintain power these differences will be papered over. If Kerry wins the party will have a death struggle for it's "soul" - but first Kerry has to win.

[snippy]

30. Excellent post. I think you are right. n/t

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

16. I think it is rotting from within whether or not Kerry wins in NOV, but

we really need for this to happen in order to start pulling down the Republican statues in earnest.

We face very different near futures depending upon the outcome of the election, for reasons enumerated by various posters on this thread.

[Killarney]

17. No. It will not die unless we take back the media.

[HootieMcBoob]

18. The Emerging Democratic Majority

A very good book.

[Mountainman]

19. It started went the repubs stole the 2000 election we didn't get over it

Much of the Dem unity is a result of the anger many of us still have over the 2000 selection.

The rights worst nightmare is that we still haven't gotten over it and we never will.

[Lerkfish]

21. if Bush gets reelected...

we'll see a disastrous turn to facsism from the current shift from old style republican to neocon to facism (that's the only place left at this point). Sure, once we shift completely to facsism the general population will wise up, but it may be too late by that point.

However, we also may have a terrible situation if Bush becomes a lame duck president -- he can mass pardon all his cronies, preemptively invade numerous countries and embroil us in multiple quagmires, can deceitfully make or allow terrorist attacks to happen in order to justify martial law and proclaim himself dictator for life.

a decade ago, what I just wrote I would have considered the ravings of a conspiracy nut. Now I consider it a plausible prediction. That alone shows how close we've come to facsism, that even the thought of it happening in america is longer far-fetched.

[burythehatchet]

22. You bet it is

There is a collective conscience in humanity that repels what it knows is not good. It may take time but it does happen. Gandhi confirmed it for me. The reason you can be sure is that when a group KNOWS it is losng the battle it fights harder and harder to maintain power. idiot boy represents the peak of their influence. That in itself should tell you a lot. If they had anything of substance to offer the people of the world, commander codpiece certainly would not be their figurehead.

There is no celebrating to do, rather, there is a lot of rebuilding to do.

[ASanders84]

23. Let's hope so

Maybe we can finally catch up to Europe politically.

[LiberalPersona]

24. I don't think it is

They're splitting into multiple groups due to their inability to even agree with themselves (which says a lot about how wrong the conservative idealogy is and how its impossible to make it work in a republic), but I don't think they're going away any time soon unfortunately.

If you're a pessimist like me, you're probably scared that the many fractured groups that conservatism is breaking into are going to unite and gang up on us.

[Q]

25. Kerry winning will be a temporary setback...much like Clinton...

...and Kerry will be forced to concede to RWing issues or kept from governing.

- You're seeing the RISE...not the fall. And it's not the 'conservative movement'. It's a fascist movement.

[NewJeffCT]

28. agreed, even if Kerry pulls the upset, it is only a temporary setback

The Far Right has been patient over the past 25-30 years - starting off small with electing practically anonymous candidates to local school boards & town councils and working their way up from there to state legislatures and now on to the national stage.

Plus, the Fundie part of the Far Right breed like rabbits. How often do you see those families with 10, 12 or 14 kids? How many left wingers have families that size?

And, I am sure if Bush loses (and even if Bush wins), we'll see the rise of RW versions of MoveOn funded by 'small donations' from Southern Baptists and the like.

[trogdor]

37. Got a family like that next door.

They have six, not ten, but six is already too many. They're all home-schooled, so their contact with non-fundies is severely limited. They do NOT subscribe to cable (they can't afford it, anyway), and for the brief time one of them played with our son, their time at our place was limited to 30 minutes at a whack - and they got grounded for going over for so much as a minute. No shit.

Six little hitlerjugend, right next door to me. Isn't that swell?

[DivinBreuvage]

26. Aggressive, right-wing conservatism will NOT decline

until it is beaten out of them, just as Militarism and Political Extremism literally had to be beaten out of Germany and Japan. Aggressive political extremism doesn't just go away, any more than religious fundamentalism just goes away. The people who are drawn to those worldviews do so because they are motivated by fundamental psychological compulsions that trivialities like elections or public disapproval cannot efface. In fact an unfavorable election result pushes them to organize tighter, work harder, and pour forth more money; and public disapproval is worn by them as a validating badge of honor (though it may cause them to pursue their activities "under the radar" for a while).

It is true that the majority of Americans do not support their agenda, and even among their adherents a substantial number support them only because they are not better informed. It is certainly possible that in the next few years the tide of public sentiment will indeed turn against them. But they already have such a strangehold on political offices, on the electoral process, and on public debate that a shift of public sentiment will not in itself excercise the leverage needed to pry them from power, at least not from the back corridors and locked rooms where they have always done the majority of their damage, secretly and unseen.

Only a soul-hammering catastrophe -- so severe that it shatters the psychological foundations on which their worldview is based, so overwhelming that it makes them know to the core of their bones that Jehovah and Mammon are actively against them and refuse to let them win -- will effectively wreck right-wing conservatism in America.

[thinkingwoman]

27. yes, the pendulum has passed the peak

of its swing for the conservatives. The great part is that history will assign fault for the decline of the conservatism to W. The bad part is that it won't happen tomorrow....sigh.

I truly believe that within a decade, most people will understand that the real war on terrorism is a war against fundamentalists of ANY and ALL religions.

[CaTeacher]

29. it is a movement, that

has outlived itself. You are so right--the pendulum is getting ready to swing left!

But we will need to clean this cancer out of our society.

[PATRICK]

35. Started out morally and intellectually bankrupt

In the past human society was primitive and simple enough for single-minded and determined individuals of this type to seize and rule society. Eventually I should think all such enterprises must come apart containing as they do more than enough of the typical human seeds of destruction.

In modern times and on, unless some terrible regression wipes out huge swaths of civilization and knowledge, such violent simplicity and uncooperative manipulation, such blindness to the complexities of knowledge AND the compassionate flexibility to keep the global community working together are doomed, out of place, and a threat to the survival of the species.

Gone are the days when you can blithely say about human history(and even more absurdly the brief American experiment)that it runs in cycles or repeats. So does the wheel of my bike, but it is traveling on down the road while wearing out. There is no refuge in the fantasy of entropy now that huge changes and challenges are well under away. Old terms and divisions take on new meanings enough without the frantic confusing anti-spin of Conservative language pre-emption and redefinition. Even their attempts at propaganda and creating "popularity" out of whole cloth can only harm everyone- including themselves.

As expression of anger, caution, selfishness and shortsightedness- yes those qualities and those individuals will be with us aplenty for some time to come. Just don't buy the used car of tyranny from them, and friends don't let friends drive Conservative.

Bad enough so much of the creaking economic system is in their incapable, unsympathetic hands. Adding their blood to the positions of civil government is like mixing water and oil.

It is not a question of the demise of a "movement" that thrived on select misinterpretations of Biblical texts and 18th Century philosophers. It is the sense of destined entitlement, joy even in criminal disaster, fear even in prosperity that locks mind and soul away from the winds of progress blowing through the whole world.

[Cats Against Frist]

33. I see both perspectives

They do have internal struggles between factions -- this is for sure, and it could threaten to wreck them. Most GOP primaries are boiling down to moderates v. Ultra-Conservative Christian Reconstructionists, and the moderates have even become more right-wing to compete with them.

I've made many distinctions between people who are actually conservatives and the prototype of the Big-Money Christian Conservative Fascists, who are basically constructed from extreme versions of early conservative/Reaganite values. It's like they've bred and elected their own prototypes. Also, I've made the distinction between the groups that are mainly corporatists, the "manipulators," and people like Rick Santorum, who are simply a product of the manipulation -- the "manipulated," -- the spawn of the big idealism, who grew from their idealistic 20s into the ultra-right-wing Christian Conservatives of today.

The right is always arguing that the left is controlled by the "intellectuals," when, really, so are they -- the "Rand Finds God" Friedman devotees, as well as the neocons and their American Enterprise Institute, are patrons of right-wing intellectualism/idealism, and they effectively have been controlling the GOP, along with the religious ideologues and the corporatists.

Now, their constituency is a different story. Do I think that the right wing will die? No. Has it ever? There is always a totalitarian/warmonger/greedmonger/fundamentalist/"fear of the other," component to humanity. So, these characteristics have and will always exist.

I tend to think either way, they will build on their power. If Kerry wins, they will go "Lucifer on Speed," frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs. If Bush wins, the ultra-right will start to demand its payback -- which could alienate the general populace, BIG TIME. So, I actually think the demise would be quicker if Bush wins. However, you never know how dedicated some of their constituency really is: I mean -- where are the militias that were on "Red Alert" during Clinton? Seems like they've rolled over like bitches for the Patriot Act and the attempted Christian Reconstruction of our Constitution.

Were they ever fighting for freedom or our Constitution? Or simply their own way of life?

I don't think the general populace shares the 30 percent die-hard, right-wing sympathies, but I do think there are enough oblivious, apathetic people that would let the fascism be ushered in without a problem -- so long as it didn't interfere with their right to buy GAP clothes.

No, I think the far right has been building slowly and waiting patiently, and is ready to strike, and strike hard. Bush and the GOP have given them a legitimacy that they have never had before. But, But, I believe they will strike at the GOP, or take it over, if the moderates don't stand their ground.

[proud patriot]

36. Poetic Extinction

:evilgrin: