Do any of you participate in boards where there's CIVIL debate between

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

Democrats and Bush supporters? I assume that VERY RIGOROUS moderation would be required for such a thing. I'm not entirely convinced it's possible. But if it is, I'd like to know about it.

There's a reason why most of my online time is here, aside from it's a great site with great people. In my (limited) experience looking at and participating in unmoderated boards, there's basically a lot of shouting, obscenity, namecalling, posting of rude jokes and clone emails. When I participated, even though I always made every effort to be civil, avoid profanity, and not insult other posters with ad hominem attacks, I was often called names and insulted, which made me angry.

Otherwise, I'd welcome the ability to actually debate politics in a moderated setting, where profanity, insults, and ad hominem were strictly forbidden by quality moderation. Do such sites exist on the web? If so, where? It's obviously not alt.politics - dot -whatever, or Yahoo forums etc.

[Catch22Dem]

1. I don't see how it's possible

The only way for it to work would be by people who are experienced in debating. You can't debate with a freeper any better than a freeper can debate with us. It would be like each side banging their head against a brick wall.

[wiggs]

2. Check out this one

www.ariannaonline.com

Some interesting debates between posters on both sides, many of which are not civil. I don't go there much anymore.

[WLKjr]

3. I do it face to face, AT WORK!!!!!

and everywhere I go where someone will talk in a civil tone.....:)

[Martin Eden]

4. I've been dabbling in Borde Global

I found this site at the DU home page, and the posters at Borde are civil, though you will find some with very strong right-wing views.

You have to become a member to participate -- it costs nothing, but you have to jump through a few hoops first.

There isn't a lot of activity in the political section (compared with DU) and I'm sure there are some boards out there where you'll reach more people (and I'm interested in finding one of those myslef) but the posts are generally intelligent and respectful.

Anyway, I've been spending some time here lately:
http://www.bordeglobal.com/foruminv/index.php?showforum=95

[Robbien]

5. Freepers slobber all their adoration on Bush

How can you debate with people who are already bending over and grabbing their ankles?

[Warpy]

6. They are incapable.

I gave up on mixed forums years ago, after another person had his name, address, SSN and phone number exposed to the group, and several more had their ISPs threatened for "spamming" the right wing members of the group with notices of new messages. In other words, they are petty, meanspirited, vindictive, narrow, nasty, and thoroughly unpleasant characters whose mommas never taught them any manners.

I prefer letting them all spew vomit at each other on the Freeper boards. It's a good place for them and a wonderful jumping off spot for their march back to the lunatic fringe whete they so clearly belong.

The few who are starting to wake up are a different matter, as they start to remember the concept of respect for other people. However, while they're still worshipping the little tin Jesus in the White House, forget it. It aint worth the aggravation and you know what they say about teaching the pig to sing grand opera.

[Protected]

7. I haven't found one yet

There are two local message boards I visit when I want to get my blood pressure up. They're mostly filled with Freeper-types and it's impossible to reason with them. Any facts presented to them just get useless non-responses like "you crying liberals!"

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

8. here

http://www.theparentperspective.com

It's NOT just for parents. There are debate boards, and there is one called Election 2004 specifically for politics and the upcoming election. A pretty broad spectrum of people, from hard-core bushies to a couple of socialists, everything in between.

It is NOT heavily moderated but still works well. You really have to back your arguments up with links, documentation, etc.

[Kitka]

31. I’m a regular at the site moonbeam is recommending….

And I second it… and I’d love to see more debaters there!

[tlcandie]

9. There's a Conservative Underground where my husband goes

to debate points instead of preaching to the choir so to speak.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

18. I don't consider that site "civil" n/t

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

22. That site sucks.

It's full of vapid rightwing neocons that aren't there to debate. The site is exclusively to plan infiltrations of DU and to make fun of progressive movements. Those guys are lowlifes. I used to troll there for fun, but they have a little problem with dissent and free speech.

[sidestreamer]

23. Civil?

The majority of them are assholes, and the rest are hardly worth the time unless you're out to fuck with them. CU does make a good urinal though, and if you're that type, talk about beating greyhounds and half of the board will go up in rage.

Oh, and gator, if you're reading, kiss my ass.

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

24. The dumbest one of them all is Kobati.

Dumber than a bag of rocks. Since he's a moderator over there, he crowns himself the boy-king when gator's not around. He likes to play this little game where he labels anyone who he deems a disruptor "rat" (he must have a gerbil fetish or something), and then succinctly bans them. I know about half a dozen libs that have gotten the axe over there. The ironic part is that they proclaim how open they are to debating the opposition. The rest of the time they sit around drooling over the posts made here at DU and yuk-yukin about how "commies are so stooopid". The DU really gets under their collective skins. What a bunch of dooshbags

!:hurts:

[sidestreamer]

27. You're talking about this Kobati?

That fat gawky Ken fucker thinks anyone who parodies them must be me. I've been banned about 5 times from there and accumulated about 900 posts over my five accounts there.

Going back to point though, the best places for discussion with "the other side" would probably be at a local message board or in person. Here, FR, CU, LP, Lucianne, P4C, and all these other politically-oriented boards just don't seem to have that kind of connect.

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

28. Yeah. That's the ignorant dork.

Just look at the stubby lil goon.

So you're "rat"? I was wondering who those idiots were talking about the last time they banned me. I'd write something like "Don't you guys think the President is doing a poor job on the War in Iraq?" and all I'd get back was invective after insult, "RAT! YOU PIECE OF SHIT!", "RAT, YOU GODDAM LIBERAL WEINER!", "RAT! RAT! RAT!" and then they banned me!

Man, you must have given those lowlifes hell! They seem to think that anyone that doesn't lock in step with their party line is you!

Good job!!

[yardwork]

10. I do but it can be very difficult at times

Many Republicans are civil, intelligent, even thoughtful. They just seem to have a blind spot about shrub. They're ok to talk with.

However, there's always a freeper or four in every mix, and they would challenge the patience of a saint, which I don't have.

[jab105]

11. My own website has that goal...

but unfortunately, there are a lot of extremists...

this is it:

http://www.understandingpolitics.com

However, this website actually does it:
(run by Republicans BTW)

http://www.americasdebate.com

[TOhioLiberal]

12. Civil debate? Not likely!

On a local board I go to, I am one of 3 or 4 liberals.

the debate goes thusly:

Liberal: One well reasoned argument, usually something slightly contentious. No Ad Hom's name calling, or disrespect.

Rwingers: yer all a bunch of bleeding heart libs! and Bush is gonna win!!!!

See what I mean? I get cognitive dissonance from it, and it raises my BP too!

[Lerkfish]

16. my experience is similar

its like Lord of the Flies...they have their shock troops, who go for blistering attacks and force the other republithugs to toe the line, they pile up on any dem or liberal who can make a good point and try to drown them out with idiocy or goad them into flamefests.
They never concede valid points, and they always distract, diffuse and deny direct hits.

I was on two seperate boards, and they both had the same dynamic:

-- civil, tentative discourse
-- fractional, pointed debate
-- Ad hominems, and pigeonholing, straw men
-- labeling of posters, which leads to old grudges carrying over into different topics
-- turn up the heat
-- moderators make lethargic and then draconian efforts to control
-- both sides perceive the moderation as against them
-- Ganging up by several thugs, usual suspects, on selectively targeted liberals, until the liberal responds in kind, at which point they throw up their hands and play victim, or the liberal leaves, which shifts the balance to the republithugs again.

to me, they're like cockroaches, they eventually completely infest a place until everyone leaves and then they high five each other and set ambushes for the unwary newbies as they dribble in.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

19. I don't like being called names. I don't mind if you teach me something

I didn't know, or prove me wrong on some point. But it raises my blood pressure to be called a moron, or some name related to my username or something. I won't in participate in boards where that happens, and it seems like that's most of them.

I'll have to check out some of the options mentioned on this thread.

[Laura_B_manslaughter]

13. I visit a lot of mixed forums and they are NOT civil

Repugs are very big into namecalling and dems are getting into it more and more which i think is good. Mud-slinging has always been part of the american political process and dems need to understand that. Gore had tons of dirt to use on bush in 2000 and didn't use it and what did it get him?

[underseasurveyor]

14. Mike Malloy's board is pretty civil

They don't tolerate personal attacks or cursing and Left, right and everything in between are welcome. Of course it's mostly Truthseekers but there are a few right leaning regulars to debate with.

http://mikemalloy.pmachinehosting.com/index.php

[napi21]

32. I will check this one out. I'm surprised though!

Mike Malloy who always says "did I tell you how much I hate these people?". I'm very surprised there are actually people there who might be middle of the road folks.

[customerserviceguy]

15. You bring up a good point

I've always thought of the Internet as a medium unparalleled in history, where ordinary people can communicate with other ordinary people like never before! We can exchange ideas, goods (eBay), and even money (campaign donations) in ways absolutely unimaginable fifty years ago.

But is it possible that the Internet is also a polarizing medium? With national news networks on broadcast TV, there is a stronger possibility of a mix of views and ideas, with cable TV, we get Fox, supposedly fair and balanced, and on the Internet, we can go to "echo chambers" where our own views on ANYTHING are unchallenged, and we get our ego pats on the back.

How do we insure that the Internet stays a learning mechanism, and not a way to cocoon ourselves in our set ways?

By the way, great Star Trek pic, that was a classic episode!

[kodi]

17. able2know.com

actually civil and useful. it started back in 2002 with a flock of abuzzards fleeing from the ny times site abuzz.com that had lost its paid moderators and the site went nuts. at able2know.com there has been a recent and forceful influx of righties that have made it more interesting. they post a lot of stuff from national review, townhall.com and other rightie and fundie sites. actually useful to see it out in the air so it can be countered.

i'm pretty much hated there by them, the righties tell me i'm not a nice person, but i suspect its just because i dont mind kicking them in the balls now and then.

i consider them Borg and have no mercy with them, for surely they would have none for me.

[info being]

25. Dunno but DU is getting a little boring

I've said for a while that they out to have a "Free Speech Forum" where we encourage Conservatives to come and debate us. I really haven't heard a good explanation of why not.

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

29. Well, don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Repugs are disruptors. If you want to debate them, you can climb in their cesspool "Free Republic" with them. We don't want to contaminate DU with their presence.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. I did for two years before I came here

Then I decided I really didn't like beating my head against a wall anymore.

[sendero]

21. I've never seen it...

... not only that, but I personally don't think you can convince ANYONE to change their basic political orientation with any number of "facts".

The part of us that makes us trend "liberal" or "conservative" is deeply ingrained by life experiences and genetic propensity. People DO change (I did) but only when their own mind decides to, when some cumulative set of realizations and experiences dictate a change.

Sorry to sound fatalistic, but IMHO if logic, reason and facts guided peoples' choice between Bush* or Kerry - Bush would be polling at 10%. People stick by him because he is "conservative", not because he has had one iota of success as president. And the reasons they identify themselves as "conservative" are very complex and not subject to revision based on "facts".

[info being]

26. So don't use "facts"

I think the most effective thing to do is explain why your ideas are ideologically sound...then the person can go on with his or her life and observe things a little differently. Explain ideas. Explain "forces" at work. Explain motives. That's the kind of thing that gets someone to question and come to their own (correct) conclusions.

[arbusto_baboso]

30. I post on another board that supposedly prohibits politics..

but the Freeper-types inevitably sneak in a few posts about the evil, licentious liberals before the mods yank 'em.

THEN, the Freeper-types whine endlessly about the bias on the board.

Evil, moranic fuckwits.