Does Al Franken ridicule Jesus in his book?

[Changenow]

From freeperville: “Towards the end of the book he has a cartoon illustration of Jesus Christ. He makes Jesus out to be a fool who is a charlatan who is tricking the people to follow him. It was obviously an attempt to equate Jesus with Bush somehow. I can't explain it very well but I was truly disgusted and offended by this book. I will read anything and form my own opinions but Franken is what just another spiteful liberal. If you are easily offended by such imagery, please do not pick this book up. If you do, please skip that part about Jesus. I have never felt like this. My soul feels wounded.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/969030/posts

I am naturally highly skeptical of this account; will someone please explain the illustration this guy talks about?

[KG]

1. that freeper is lying

he says his 'soul feels wounded'.

pod people don't have souls.....

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I think

that Jesus faced a few things a little bit worse in his lifetime than some cartoon. And he told folks to forgive and to not judge others but to look to their own salvation. But the so-called "Christian" ministers of the far-right sort of forget that part of Jesus' message.

[mitchum]

19. Yes, I don't think Jesus would mind some jokes...

since He was a very funny man himself. Quite a sardonic wit, He had.

[Tripper11]

3. But the picture of Bush as Jesus????

This is a good thing?? As a non-religious person, I find that highly offensive. Man these freepers are so ass backwards I can't even begin to comprehend.

[philosophie_en_rose]

22. Freeps, not Franken, equate Bush with Jesus.

The Freeper finds it offensive that Jesus is equated with Bush - a cowardly shithead. Is that offensive? Yes. Bush is not Jesus. He is a waste of human flesh surrounding the soul of stupidity.

But who is making the comparison between Bush and Jesus? It is the religious fundamentalists who elevate the Pretzeldent to the second coming of Christ. The picture is a parody of the monopoly Bushco claims to have over Christianity and not an insult to religion.

The Freeper is as stupid as Fox News.

[gully]

24. here here...

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ComerPerro]

42. You don't want to know

A freeper is someone who posts at
www.freerepublic.com

Even more right wing than this board is left wing.

Nice screen name.

[scarface2004]

4. i hear he has a parody of jesus....

returning as an eric rudolph kind of character, garnishing weapons and going postal! its frickin' hilarious!!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

5. Wow, they really don't want Christians reading liberal books do they?

They have created this scare monster liberal that hates Jesus and they spread these lies to scare Christians like your grandmother, or your uncle, or the nice church lady down the street from reading *anything* that deviates from the right-wing FOX/Bush line.

"You know those liberals hate Jesus don't you Mrs. Adams?"

[Changenow]

7. I’ll reserve judgment until I see the illustration

If it really is an attempt to show that the right does not worship Jesus but some corrupted manifestation of Him then I’ll have no problem with the illustration personally and as a Christian. That is because I happen to agree that there is almost nothing in common with the Christ they claim and the true teachings, a visual illustration of that thought and a verbalization of it are no different in my mind.

That said, it was foolishness of Franken to give them such ammunition which can be distorted so easily to depict something which he didn’t intend. He more than anyone knows what they are capable of so why leave yourself wide open to the kinds of attacks which will certainly follow.

[Ardee]

13. what you suggest

is plain silliness. We should, all of us, consider every word, every phrase in the context of how it might be received by some wing nut somewhere? Ive not read the book as yet ,though it is on my list, but I would bet my last quarter, knowing Franken, that this supposed offensive cartoon is simply another straw man raised only to bash the book.....
The truth is what it is, humor is a useful tool in combatting the nut jobs and screw them and their sensibilities, I find their seriousness far more offensive than any parody......

[Changenow]

17. You read why more into my comment

on edit: Subjuct should have read "You read way more...

then I said. No, we should not guard every word. To the contrary, we should scream the truth until it is heard. But with such an important message, a red herring like this may be used to define the book when it is not what the book is about. When it has a far greater potential to harm the books message then to broadcast it, why do it?

[Ardee]

51. well, what do you really mean then?

Sorry for appearing to harp on a comment of yours, but I feel it is symbolic of the "cowardice" of the democratic party leadership and really raises my hackles. You said:

"That said, it was foolishness of Franken to give them such ammunition which can be distorted so easily to depict something which he didn’t intend. He more than anyone knows what they are capable of so why leave yourself wide open to the kinds of attacks which will certainly follow."

All my following commentary was directed at this statement by you and how it seems to lead to exactly the nonconfrontational policies of the current (lack of) opposition.....

[qanda]

37. All they have to do is visit DU to get that impression.

I have been around here for about six months or so and I have seen so many Christian-bashing, Jesus-hating posts that it's scary. Usually I just ignore them, but sometimes the level of disrespect and blasphemy is just plain ridiculous. There are other things to play around with and I was always taught that Jesus was off-limits for jokes.

[Changenow]

6. So I understand.

The Jesus that the right worships is not the Jesus that taught peace, love and forgiveness. It is a new incarnation of Christ they worship who is violent, hateful and vengeful. It is that “new Jesus” who is depicted in the book. In other words it is a visual illustration of the corruption of Jesus’ message by the hate mongers. True?

[Bozola]

16. Well, who could it be?

"It is a new incarnation of Christ they worship who is violent, hateful and vengeful."

Agreed. I'm sure it's Christ they've renamed him, but the rest of us still prefer to call him Satan, Prince of Lies.

Yes, these guys are Satanists.

[Malva Zebrina]

8. Christians followed Bush

as Bush was gearing up the propaganda machine to invade Iraq, almost every leader of every mainstream Christian religion, publically stated their objections to invading Iraq--with the exception of the Southern Baptists Convention--

Taking into consideration that the majority of Americans belong to a Christian church, and looking at the poll numbers of people that supported Bush in this illegal, immoral invasion, it looks to me as if Christians have a new spiritual leader, and that leader is Bush. He has defined Christianity for Christians. Before you say it is only a select group of Christians, and NO NO NOT ME--find out why Christians spit it the face of their spiritual leaders and rubber stamped Bush's version of Christian crusades

[Changenow]

9. Everyone is flawed.

It is easier to be led than to lead. There is, to my way of thinking, a vast difference between what people do in the name of God and what was taught.

It is doubtful that we are going to change each other’s minds here.

[sendero]

20. yeah..

... we call that "hypocrisy", and I'll leave it at that.

[chesley]

10. I think a better question

is why the Christians repudiate their leaders. for instance, tha Anglican church may split over the ordination of a gay bishop. Why don't the people of this church follow the directives of their leaders? How did this split between the leaders and the sheeple occur? What can be done aboaut it?

[gully]

23. Good point...I think 'many' christians are worshiping Bush...

I do ask that we are careful not to lump all christians into one mindless category though. :shrug:

Many were lied to in their churches. My in-laws were told by their pastors that this was a 'just' war blah, blah, blah... In spite of the fact that the Lutheran Church was 'officially' against the Iraq war. I think they were naive? My Mother in law was shocked to learn that every Christian Church with the exception of 'The Southern Baptist Congregation' was actually against the Iraq war. Why were these people not told this at Church on Sunday morning?

I think the bottom line is $$. The Churches were so 'careful' not to take un-popular positions at the pulpit b/c the didn't' want to lose their congregation i.e money.

Also lets not forget the Traditional Quakers are Christians and have a history of fighting for peace and justice.

http://www.fcnl.org/

On the Franken thing? I am sure it's metaphoric for goodness sakes. It's an illustration of how Bush abuses the name of Jesus to do what ever the F he want's. But, the Freeps are too stoopid to figure that out. It requires two dimentional thinking.

[styersc]

35. I'm a Christian and I opposed the war.

As did practically every Christian I know.

Perhaps you can direct you hate-based generalizations elsewhere.

[jafap]

50. I did not see the hate based generalizations

With 70% approval of the war in this 80% "Christian" nations, there must be plenty of "Christians" supporting the war.

One thing about the Methodist church and other liberal denominations is that they are mostly a-political. The Methodist "leadership" opposed the war, but did Methodist pastors preach very many anti-war sermons? I wonder if the fundie churches are as a-political?

Also I will bet that most Methodist churches sang "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" in Oct of 2001, and had "God bless America" on their front sign. If there were more liberal pastors who had guts, or maybe just more liberal pastors, they would have preached anti-war all through 2003 and still be doing it. They probably could have doubled the size of the anti-war protests.

[Iris]

52. I don't think that is quite true

The Catholic Church did not support this invasion. Some Bishops here thought they could go over the Pope's head on this one and said it was ok to support the invasion, but that was not the official stance of the Church.

I also don't think the Episcopal church supported the invasion and I would guess the same about the liberal version of the Presbytarian church.

Also, a "majority of Americans" may call themselves "Christian" but as for their holding church membership, I don't think the numbers are quite as high. Or, if they are, they don't account for people who "belong" to a church but do not attend.

[aquart]

11. Does freeper know what freeper said?

"He makes Jesus out to be a fool who is a charlatan who is tricking the people to follow him. It was obviously an attempt to equate Jesus with Bush somehow."

Because everyone knows Bush is a fool and a charlatan who is tricking the people to follow him?

Freeper got it in one.

[Liberator_Rev]

12. All good points. Here's my favorite cartoon:

(link needed correction)
It's such a joy to find so many people of sound mind and heart here at DU. Hopefully, Franken used good judgement and made fun of one of the false characatures of Jesus of the religious right, rather than the true Jesus of history who is a Liberal hero that even atheists and agnostics can admire. ( If you doubt that, then explore http://atheists-for-jesus.com )

One of the main purposes of our own web site is to show how OPPOSED to everything Conservative and/or Republican Jesus was. Here's one of the great cartoons from our http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/BushRecord pages about Jesus response to W's claim that he models himself after Jesus:




at http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org .

See what Christ might say about the "Christian Coalition" & "Religious Right" imposters.

[Generic Other]

14. "I can't explain it very well but I was truly disgusted and offended..."

The Freeper mind melt?

[tjdee]

15. Dunno, I'll BUY THE BOOK and I'll tell you!

The freepers/FAUX keep hyping this book, I simply must buy it and give Franken more money!

[alfredo]

18. Jews have a right to poke fun at fellow Jews.

go Al!

[KoKo]

21. I'll go over to the bookstore today and look for what the Freep

says is there about Jesus, and report back.

[gully]

26. Sounds good 007!

;)

[Athletic Grrl]

27. Me too Koko!

And I'll do you one better and BUY it.

GO AL!!

[gully]

25. Al is jewish...me thinks...

:shrug:

[Changenow]

28. What if Christians attacked Jews using that same argument?

Wouldn’t that be called anti-Semitism? I know you’re kidding but there is a grain of belief in what you say. It doesn’t reflect well on Franken, but we do need to get a look at the context before we go any further.

[philosophie_en_rose]

29. It's called satire.

Let me explain:

Jesus has some reputation as a peaceful, loving, nice sort of guy. Right? The lying liars claim that they believe in Jesus. Yet, they perpetuate hateful, violent, murderous sacrilege by essentially telling Jesus what to believe. Thus, Franken publishes a satire of the what the Freepers truly worship.

Again, this is a commentary on religious hypocrisy and Republicans - not a reflection on religion in any way.

[Changenow]

31. My comment was directed at the joke that Franken

is allowed to criticize Christ because they are both Jews. I said I knew the poster was kidding but pointed out anyway that if the reverse argument were used, even in jest, it would be called anti-Semitism. My point is that it would be wise to please reflect on how these comments would be viewed if they were about other faiths to understand the sensitivity of Christians.

I may be coming across as more religious than I am here but these are valid issues that deserve compilation.

[democracyindanger]

30. NO, HE DOESN'T

There's a panel cartoon in the second half of the book titled 'The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus,' where Franken uses a character named, obviously, Supply Side Jesus to comment on the ridiculousness of supply-siders.

At the end, the people are given the choice by Pontius Pilate to spare the life of Supply Side Jesus *OR* Jesus Christ of Nazareth. It's selfish, stupid people who confuse the two--both in the strip and in real life. Read it, and you'll understand.

[Changenow]

32. Please read some of the earlier posts.

Speaking for myself, I have said over and over that I will reserve judgment and may even agree with the cartoon. Please at least glance at the threads to understand what is going on.

[democracyindanger]

33. I read all the earlier posts before I posted

In particular, the first one in which you asked, "I am naturally highly skeptical of this account; will someone please explain the illustration this guy talks about?"

So, because nobody who actually has the book sitting in their lap opened to p. 313 seems to have answered YOUR question, I thought I'd give you the description you asked for. Had I known that you were going to be pissy about RECEIVING A SPECIFIC ANSWER TO THE SPECIFIC QUESTION YOU ASKED, I wouldn't have given you one. Please at least glance at the screen when you type so you understand what you're posting.

[Changenow]

44. My apology

I was starting to feel under attack and took the defensive. I should have considered your answer at face value and not read anything into it that wasn’t there.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. Changenow you seem awfully interested in freeperville..every thread you .

start and every post is about what freepers think....re: your other thread this morn: Why do the 10 Commandments have to be removed from the building?........who gives a turd what freepers/repuukes demented minds hold?

[opihimoimoi]

36. I was told they ran out of the book, will take 4 weeks for next shipment

Damn,

oh well, there is always Playboy

[Changenow]

47. My question about removal

of the 10 commandments was simply related to why the protesters should be a consideration at all. There were ways to remove the rock without any more hysteria, and I wondered why those alternatives hadn’t been considered. on edit:It seems to me that creating more martyrs for them serves their cause, it was not supportive of the protesters, who I view as misguided.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

38. no

it's a character called 'suplly side jesus' who is put up by pilate vs the real jesus. his life is spared and he goes on to do evil things. the point of the cartoon is too show how unchristian the policies of the supposedly 'born again' right really are

freepers missing the point? should we even be surprised?

[Changenow]

49. Thank you.

That is good news.

[Skittles]

39. I have the book right here

he must be referring to chapter 37 - THE GOSPEL SUPPLY SIDE JESUS - eleven pages of a cartoon narrative. Sorry, I won't read it now - I'm on chapter 25 THIS WAS *NOT* A MEMORIAL TO PAUL WELLSTONE.


YES I RECOMMEND THIS BOOK ALREADY. :)

[disgruntella]

45. i also have the book

As others have said, he differentiates between the Bush-esque "Supply Side Jesus" and "Jesus of Nazareth" -- rather clearly (to a person who reads, rather than looks at the pictures, lol) but not until the second-to-last page of the cartoon. Perhaps the notion of an "alternate Jesus" would be offensive to some people. But taken as a whole, the cartoon is not any kind of attack on Jesus or Christianity, IMO. I hope that knee-jerk offended people actually take the time to read it from beginning to end, and not write it off because of the title.

P.S. the book is FABULOUS.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

41. jesus mocked........

[Karenina]

43. Not a single person on this thread

has reported on having seen the "issue" in the context of the book.
:shrug:

[disgruntella]

48. scroll up a few posts...

I did, and so did a few others. (It did take some time for someone to whip the book out though, eh?)

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

46. the freepers

are still repeating the same stupid hannity and drudge smear stories franken in that thread

after reading al's version of events vs sean and matt's, any sane person with an i.q. over 10 would realize which of the two accounts actually makes sense and be able to figure out really happened

[Iris]

53. THIS is what wounds his soul?

I don't think Jesus would think that this should be the straw to break the camel's back.

My soul was injured during a certain election a few years ago, and then again in Sept. 2001, and again when we invaded Afghanistan, and again when we invaded Iraq. My soul is still injured every day when I hear about the deaths that are still occuring almost daily in Iraq.

[Classical_Liberal]

54. That is a lie

He has a cartoon that depicts the republican version of Jesus.