Do you think Bush* is really a religious person?

[BillZBubb]

Is he really religious (in his own belief system), or is it just for the votes?

I think a lot of it is for the votes, but historically a lot of deeply "religous" people have been sociopaths.

[WI_DEM]

1. hell, NO

I think he uses religion as a tool to win votes.

[Vincardog]

8. Bu$h God?

The Idiot Bu$h is deeply religious. His religion is a twisted sect called Dominionism. They basically believe a chosen few deserve to rule and lord over the rest of us. Visit this link to find out more
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Don;t forget that devil worshipers can be considered 'religious' too

[pocoloco]

51. To put it in simple terms..

we are screwed!

[phish420]

10. I kinda agree

I agree to an extent. I think he truly believes that what he does is right, but he does over-pander to the churh-going crowd for votes as well.

[yardwork]

41. Welcome to DU, phish420!

[newyawker99]

58. Hi phish420!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[WLKjr]

2. Nope

I he was really religious, he would not start wars and kill people. Plain and simple.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

3. he's like the homophobic frat boy

who quotes scripture to bash gays in between keggers

i've doubted his sincerity ever since the 'christ is my favorite political philosopher' moment

[soleft]

4. Yes - is he a spiritual person - no

[Javaman]

9. Just another tool for him...

He's the worst kind of person who claims to be religious. He uses it as his protection blanket and discards it when it's not convient for him.

[yardwork]

42. I agree - and welcome to DU, javaman!

[southernleftylady]

5. of course not.... what didn't he just "find" religion on the way to signin

up for governor? ;) lol another political stunt of his

[Placebo]

6. My Very Religious Aunt Thinks He Is...

and when I tried to challenge it by telling her about his past with drinking, drugs, etc... and only 'finding jesus' when it was about to be politically savvy to do so, she simply brushed off my accusations stating, "you're not religious, you just wouldn't understand."

I guess it's just too much for me to understand. :shrug:

[yardwork]

43. What I understand is that W's position on this guarantees

him millions of votes from religious people like your aunt. What a coincidence!

[Gregorian]

7. Absolutely not, as evidenced by his behavior.

Ask any legitimate clergyperson. Actions speak. You don't kill people. Period. Pride cometh before a fall.

[jjmalonejr]

11. Yes, he really is a religious person

The votes are a bonus.

[KurtNYC]

12. If you overlook his unrepentant transgressions of

Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's possessions (read: Oil),
Thou shalt not steal,
and
Thou shalt not kill,

then he might have a shot.

Oh yeah AND "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me"

[tlcandie]

13. You've hit on the key issue/word....religion

IMO
Religious person = religion...ruled by fear of eternal damnation or being good enough to get into heaven

I'm very wary of religious people and find myself warming up quite nicely to people who speak of spirituality and spiritual leanings without all the catch phrases and quotes that make one instantly appear religious!

In his own mind he believes he is and most who ignore the golden rule and such biblical scriptures of love also believe the same thing.

Many who killed/hung/castrated blacks felt they were within their religious right to do so because they believed them to be base/lower than animals.

The KKK believe they are religious and have every right to act as they do.

Religious crusades..killing and wars mixed with religion makes one crazy concoction!

[amber dog democrat]

14. he is delusoinal

and dangerous, but not religious in a spiritual way.
In his case the EGO has not moved aside for the SPIRIT.

He's as relegious as Torquemada, or Al Capone.

[A_Possum]

15. He's deeply religious in the worst sense

Doesn't have to question anything, just "prays" and makes some snap decision based on what he thinks he heard God tell him, which naturally is just what he wants to do anyway. Other than that, he just listens to whatever Billy Graham/Falwell says to do. I have someone in my family like this, thinks putting her rear end on a pew every Sunday is all that counts, and is quite willing to be utterly cruel and use her religion to blackmail and hurt others, including me, while being oblivious to anyone's feelings but her own. She's really into distributing toys to the poor kids at Christmas, but has no sense of actual every day ethics or real compassion for people who aren't as lucky as she is. (Which is extremely lucky in terms of lifestyle and money.)

I know the type. I also know some real Christians, so I don't blame religion or Christianity per se.

It's a character issue--if it weren't Christianity that they used to justify their mindless selfishness, it would be some other cult.

[caballen]

16. Yes

His faith is how he finds ways to justify his actions. I have no doubt he is a believer. But I don't think he is spiritual. For him its about fear and punishment. Is Osama Bin Laden religous? You don't have to be good to be Religious and every religious can justify bad actions. Remember the majority of Bush supporters are religious. They agree with his actions.

[wicket]

22. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[newyawker99]

59. Hi caballen!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Daisey Mae]

17. no !

[vetwife]

19. The Devil is religious. Godly and Religious are 2 separate things

Is he religious..yes..Godly..no.....Who is he worshipping? Not my God ..Bears no fruit of it !

[Spinzonner]

18. Yes

but then so was Torquemada

[realFedUp]

20. Find out if he tithes.....

a tenth of his yearly income
to a church of his choice.

Not all Christians can meet this
but it would be interesting to know.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Hell no. It's all an act.

If he's religious, I'm the Pope.

[Cleita]

23. Bush reminds me of Ivan the Terrible if he had absolute power like Ivan.

<snip>
Ivan the tyrant

Stalin admired him. The rest of Europe believed he was mad. What is certain is that he was one of the most ruthless tyrants in history.

The name 'Ivan the Terrible' conjours up images of senseless cruelty and paranoia. Yet, for many in Russia, he is a national hero. Ivan appears to be a man of huge contradictions - a man of God who personally tortured his victims and beat his own son to death; a hardened despot who often behaved like a coward, asking his ally, Elizabeth I of England, for political asylum; a man who believed himself chosen to save the souls of his people, but who brutally put thousands to death in carefully orchestrated purges.<snip>

<snip>
He set up a bodyguard that has been described as Russia's first 'secret police' - the Oprichniki - as a religious brotherhood sworn to protecting God's Tsar. In reality, they became marauding thugs, ready to commit any crime in the Tsar's name. Ivan sentenced thousands to internal exile in far flung parts of the empire. Others were condemned to death; their families and servants often killed as well. Ivan would give detailed orders about the executions, using biblically inspired tortures to reconstruct the sufferings of hell. More than 3,000 people lost their lives in Ivan's attack on Novgorod alone. In a fit of rage, Ivan struck his son and heir dead with his staff. Mad with sorrow and guilt, he had a dramatic volte face, posthumously forgiving all those he'd executed and paying for prayers to be said for their souls. Before his death, Ivan was re-christened as the monk Jonah and buried in his monk's habit - in the hope of finding ultimate forgiveness. <snip>


http://opera.prohosting.com/sarir/ivan%20the%20terrible.html

[blm]

24. Bush is the LEAST religious president in history, and the MOST fraudulent

Christian I have ever witnessed.

[texastoast]

25. Cusses way too much

to have any integrity in any Christian "faith" he has. It's all show.

[asjr]

26. I think he uses religion. A true

religious person would want to wage peace, not war. He would have used the Iraq money to help his own country. It is a facade for his Christian base. I was never a cynic until Shrub came along.

[TowelBoy]

49. Not necessarily true

Radical Muslims are very religious, many homegrown terrorists are radical Christians, and all these people believe very strongly in their religion. The only problem is they believe only what already fits what they want, not the parts that fit what they need (forgiveness, goodness, peace, etc.)

[smirkymonkey]

27. Yes, he thinks he's God and he worships himself, so

I guess that would qualify as a "type" of religion, wouldn't it?

[arbusto_baboso]

28. Religious, yes. Spiritual, no.

Religion is all about the form and flash.

Spirituality is a much tougher thing to accomplish, and requires the kind of introspection that most rethugs lack.

[olddem43]

29. He is about as religious as Madelyn Murray O'Hair

It's just an act to maintain his RW base.

[Bandit]

30. Bush* calls himself a Methodist but when his own minister wished to

see and talk to him about going to war with Iraq Bush* would not allow him in the Whitehouse. So absolutely not. Bush* is the exact opposite of religious. He is the hypocrite Jesus warned us about.

[Cleita]

32. Isn't he really a Moonie?

I mean why all the social ties to the Rev. Moon, if he's really a Methodist?

[polmaven]

53. Actually, it was deeper than that.

It was the United Methodist Council of Bishops who asked to meet with him, and he flatly refused them. He obviously feels they, with hundreds of years collectively behind them, cannot possibly match up to his own knowledge of what God "told" him to do.

The Council of Bishops ranges from very conservative to liberal in philosophy, but all agreed this is not a just war. He wanted to hear none of it.

His religiosity is a sham. He trots it out for convenience when ever he needs to appear to be a Christian.

[flordehinojos]

31. Religion is a show and tell thing for Bush

Spirituality? He wishes! His great grandfather Herbert Walker hated religion. He walked away from a Catholic Seminary where his parents had sent him to study for the priesthood.

Poppy was raised Episcopalian ... but religion seems to have been lip service to him...

PRINCIPLES? the only principle the family knew was to win no matter what!

Steel, black powder and trading with the enemy ---those were the things that matter to the Bush ancestry.

The antithesis of Christ's message.
}(

[mitchum]

33. Yes! He is a god...

damn piece of shit

[hippiegranny]

34. yes, his religion is that of power

and he will say or do anything to keep and further it. However, he does not have one reverent, spiritual bone in his body. He does not honor good. His karma has got to be a mess!

[Amaya]

35. Many psychopaths are religious.

He doesn't know a thing about Christianity. He's a fraud.

[seabeyond]

36. being a religious person and christian are two different things

i believe he now believes he is a religious person, i also think he and many religions dont have a clue allowing agenda and mans word taking them of the path of christ conscious

[Disturbed]

38. Would Jesus vote for Dumbass?

Profile of a Sociopath

Glibness/Superficial Charm

Language can be used without effort by them to confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally.

Manipulative and Conning

They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. He dominates and humiliates his victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self

Feels entitled to certain things as "his right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with his own fantasies as the "spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc. Creates an us-versus-them mentality

Pathological Lying

Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at his core. Does not see others around him as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions

When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since he is not genuine, neither are his promises.

Incapacity for Love

While He talks about "God's love" he is unable to give or receive it. Since he does not believe in the geniuses of his followers' love, he is very harsh in testing it from his devotees and expects them to feel guilt for their failings. Expects unconditional surrender.

Need for Stimulation

Living on the edge, yet testing the beliefs of their followers with bizarre rules, punishments and behaviors. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Unable to emphasize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. Their skills are used to exploit, abuse and exert power. Since the follower cannot believe their leader would callously hurt them, they rationalize his behavior as necessary for their ( or the group's) own "good" and deny the abuse. When devotees become aware of the exploitation it feels like a "spiritual rape" to them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believes he is all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for his impact on others. His followers only see him as near perfect.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability

Not concerning about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blame their followers or others outside their group. Blame reinforces passivity and obedience and produces guilt, shame, terror and conformity in the followers.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Totalist leaders frequently practice promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts. This is usually kept hidden from all but the inner circle. Stringent sexual control of their followers, such as forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from parents, rules for dating, etc.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future. Many groups claim as their goal world-domination or other utopian promises. Great contrast between the leader's opulent lifestyle and the followers' impoverishment. Support by gifts and donations from his followers who are pressured to give through fear and guilt. Highly sensitive to their own pain and health.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Changes their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and to increase income and to recruit a range of members. Is able to adapt or relocate as needed to preserve the group. Can resurface later with a new name, a new front group and a new twist on the scam.

[seabeyond]

39. geez if bush isnt text book

lordy

[July]

63. sounds like the whole Republican party to me

This piece describes the M.O. of a big chunk of the RW leadership, not to mention your average freeper.

[vetwife]

46. Worships Black gold ! Texas T and the greenback !

[Beausoleil]

37. No

He is extremely opportunistic, not too bright, ruthless and lucky to be born a Bush. Any connection to religion is only for crass, political show. It's for the votes. If he hadn't been born a Bush, I truly think he would be either a homeless derilect, a thriving con-man or in prison. Religion would not be part of the equation.

[Old and In the Way]

40. Yes, he is religious.....

in the Falwell-Robertson-Gantry sense of the word.

[Bullshot]

56. Bush is a fanatic,

similar to Ayatollah Khomeini, or Osama bin Laden. They twist and contort their religion to pigeonhole their antisocial views of the world.

[msmcghee]

44. What you are asking is . .

. . does he really believe in God - or just pandering for votes?

It is difficult for most liberals (and probably many traditional conservatives) to understand how someone can hold two logically incompatible beliefs in their mind at the same time.

I've wondered about this for a long time myself.

I think I understand it now. It comes down to how your mind's pleasure/pain mechanism has been programmed.

Some find pleasure in superstition, hubris and dogma, others in reason and civility. This is what will determine much about you in your life. No-one will live their life in pain if they don't have to. Neither will they turn away consistently from that which gives them pleasure. Logic has nothing to do with it.

If reason gives you no pleasure - then holding illogical beliefs that make you feel very good is how you live your life. It's no contest.

It's obvious that Bush* is this type of person. And that's why our nation and the world is in such grave danger right now. I don't think people really understand that people like this have no trouble seeing many people die - if it allows them to retain power and continue on their path.

These guys are not going to step down quietly when they lose this election. There will probably be an October surprise beyond anyone's wildest imagination. IMO if they know they are going to lose, and they will know by then - there will be no election.

[yellowcanine]

45. I make it a point not to question anyone's religion. One can be religious

and still use religion inappropriately (as I think Bush has done). In fact, I think that is one of the temptations that religious people have to watch out for. Otherwise known as idolatry - where the religion itself (rather than God) is what is being worshipped.

[TowelBoy]

47. I think he is

But I think he has a very twisted sense of his religion. Satan is a very religious person, too. I'm sure he believes fervently what he's doing is right, because it's for the good of us all. Or whatever he tells himself.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

48. Apart from Joan of Arc

has any major leader any time in history ever claimed to personally receive the words of God besides Bush? Just wondering.

[nyhuskyfan]

50. I don't know...

Did his advisors manage to condense the Bible down to one easy to read page for him? Because that much reading is seemingly well beyond his capability.

Osama Bin Laden and David Koresh are/were religious, but they weren't exactly good people.

[leftofthedial]

52. it's a game and a show

for an important constituency

[dansolo]

54. Religious? Yes. Christian? No.

[Kinkistyle]

55. I think he replaced one opiate with another.

Bush was a drug-user and alcoholic, and to replace the "high" he got from drugs, he now gets that "high" from religious fervor. Do I think he truly believes his version of "christianity", yes I do, as much as my born-again friend who was a womanizer and and alcoholic even during his born-again days (he fell out of christianity after a year or two of intense zealotry).

[whosinpower]

57. Sure he is but then

so is Osama Bin Laden....

And one question that always stops the fundies in their tracks is

"Who would Jesus bomb?"

[truthspeaker]

60. Yes, I think he really believes he's doing God's work.

That makes him even more dangerous.

[0007]

61. You gotta be kidding! junior loves money & power too much

and is smart enough to say the right things.

[leesa]

62. Votes. He hasn't a Christian thought in his head.

[July]

64. It's an all-purpose excuse.

Choice: my brother helped rig the election in my favor, OR God wanted me in the White House. I choose GOD.

Choice: my whole life is one big fuck-up, OR all earlier mistakes are wiped clean since I have found Jesus. Later mistakes do not exist because "I know in my heart" that I am doing the right thing, thanks to GOD.

Choice: listen to my father's words about Iraq, OR follow the neo-cons and give Dad a nice big Oedipal slap because I answer to a higher power.

Etc.

He probably believes his own bullshit, because otherwise he'd have to believe the truth about himself and the crooks and liars who put him where he is.

[Strawman]

65. It's his way of not being accountable or dealing with anything

His born again experience allowed him to magically stop being an alcoholic and a failure without doing the hard honest work of facing himself. He chose to be born again because it was the quickest, easiest, and most half-assed way to get him out of the mess he had made of his life without any consequences to himself. That seems to be how he makes most of his decisions. The violent, drunken, loser was the old George Bush. Coming to Jesus offered him a clean slate. It's just another golden parachute like the one that bailed him out of Arbusto, Harken, guard duty, etc. I don't think that finding religion and not honestly holding oneself accountable for one's past mistakes and trying to repair them are necessarily the experience of every person who is born again, but I definitely suspect that was the case with him because it fits his pattern of behavior.

[wadestock]

66. He defines the "CORUPT BUSINESS MAN'S" religion.....

You see them go to church on sunday....then stab their fellow worker in the back on Monday.

These are intensely sick people that have no real heart and have no real compassion. They are empty, without confiction...and form a "religious commaraderie" with others like them to make them think that their lost lives are meaningful.

It is very much important that they meet in groups and that they form the false allegiances that they do with each other. Without that...they are truly nothing.

We democrats and those who are truly religious can exist without such false commaraderies and "think independently". It's the independent thinking that we have which is such a terrible threat to them.

You see they have become more prominent in business....have risen to the top over the last 20 years.....and they use religion as a shield to their corrupt behavior. Oddly enough, they don't even realize how corrupt their behavior actually is.

It's a wierd commaraderie that they share. I see it in my boss and how he muses with those in the office that he thinks might be of the same "moral persuasion" as he is....other shallow gutless people who enjoy looking down on their fellow worker....and specifically enjoy working every day with the notion that someday they'll be on top.

They tend to think that those who don't act the way they do (as if there's a secret goodness buried somewhere inside).....or anyone who actually thinks out loud....simply doesn't have "what it takes" to "do what's necessary" when required.

In a way they do think they are guided by some divine direction.

Also be careful to note that they are absolutely powerless and completely ineffective unless they have their "group" working together. This is very much the reason why Bush must have his Cheney and his Rumsfeld et al because they all have to muse together to prop up their actions. Each one individually is 1/100th of a man. It's a very sick group psychology that really has no true good intentions....but seems to wander from one f'd up situation to the next.

Exactly what you find in the business world. Going from one f'd up situation to the next with no real innovative thinking but to go to others to get the real ideas and work done.....

[laylah]

67. Not a chance...

at least not in the true sense of the word...he's another hypocritical "good Christian" (my apologies to the true believers)
who hides behind God to do his dirty work...:puke:

Jenn