BBV: Report from last Wednesdays meeting with the Secretary of State Ca.

[Andy_Stephenson]

Wednesday Bev and her team of experts, including a brilliant computer programmer, Dr. Hugh Thompson, did the Diebold hack for members of the California Sec. of State's Voting Panel. They (the State) carefully rearranged her meeting from last week, (after she had driven 10 hours from Washington state to be there), when all eight members of the panel were present, to this week, when only three members were present. (Bev guessed that they did this so they wouldn't have a quorum present.) They had other guests there, too, at Bev's requests: an accountant, since she uses the analogy that running an election is essentially bookkeeping, and that all records for an election should be kept in the same responsible way as a good set of books is kept; and their own computer programming expert from the state's side (who is also one of the Voting Panel). Also present was one of the attorneys from their AG's office.

Bev and Hugh Thompson clearly demonstrated her latest bombshell finding: that the Diebold GEMS software, in most versions or maybe all that are currently in use around the country (this I would have to doublecheck with her) has a hidden, second set of books on the central tabulator that can be accessed from a "back door" where, to use one of Bev's earlier phrases, "any hacker with a laptop" could jump right in and change the final vote totals. Hugh Thompson also demonstrated that even a hacker who didn't have Microsoft Access on their computer, the program necessary to run an election on the GEMS software, could write a simple 7 LINES of code and still hack in anyway. He affirmed that "hundreds of thousands" of people out there had the level of expertise to do just that.

Also present was Andy Stephenson, former candidate for Secretary of State for Washington, with evidence that one of Diebold's programmers named Jeffrey Dean (now in jail) had also been in jail prior to being hired by Diebold for 23 counts of felony theft, including charges of embezzling using sophisticated software programming methods to commit his crimes.

The invisible "second set of books" appeared on the GEMS program versions that came out just after Jeffrey Dean was kept on as a consultant for Diebold after they purchased Global Election Systems (GES) a few years ago.

Probably the most notable thing about this event was the lack of any clear outrage or shock on the part of the Sec. of State's witnesses, or any commitment to take any particular action based on what they had just seen. They thanked Bev for coming in and said they would "take the information under consideration" or some such BS language. No one on "our" side believes they will do anything with the information. We all hope we are wrong.

The invisible "second set of books" is present on Diebold's optical scan counting software as well, not just the DRE's. This is pretty bad stuff!

Vickie

[trumad]

1. so what's your next move?

[Andy_Stephenson]

2. I would tell you...but then

I would have to kill you... :hi:

[trumad]

16. Well Good Luck...

peace

[greatauntoftriplets]

18. If I know this guy....

(and I do!) he has something really good up his sleeve.

GBnC should never be misunderestimated.

[mbee]

4. Has Bev talked to the Kerry people about this. Stephanie Cutter

is Kerry's Communications Director. Does anyone have contact information on her?

[Andy_Stephenson]

8. We are quite accessible...

All Kerry's people need do is call and we can demonstrate the hack and show the documentation to them.

[flpoljunkie]

28. Have you tried to contact FL Sen. Graham, author of voting reform bill?

[flpoljunkie]

3. Is there any legitimate reason for a "second set of books?"

[Andy_Stephenson]

5. No there isn't...but this report does not mention

the program keeps 3 set of books actually.

[flpoljunkie]

9. Unbelievable! Why aren't our Democratic Senators screaming about this?

Question: If the opti-scan results are printed out at the precincts before the results are sent via modem to the election supervisor, will this solve this "second and third sets of books" problem?

[Andy_Stephenson]

11. It is part of the solution but not the only one.

Sad thing is no one wants to listen, and it could damn well be too late.

Pen, paper and a day off to count the election...IMHO is the best solution right now.

[donkeyotay]

61. this is the biggest Republican twofer ever

First they steal the 2000 election, then they tap the taxpayer to help steal all future elections with HAVA.

After all that hanging chad hokum, the dems even helped them waltz this through.

"Pen, paper and a day off to count the election...IMHO is the best solution right now."

I agree, simple is better.

[flpoljunkie]

14. GbnC, I have a question regarding opti-scan machines.

Question: If the opti-scan results are printed out at the precincts before the results are sent via modem to the election supervisor, will this solve this "second and third sets of books" problem?

[Andy_Stephenson]

19. No it will not solve it.

it is part of the solution...but another part is a complete disconnect of the system...no modems...wireless or internet connection of the central count computer.

[burythehatchet]

6. it must certainly be frustrating to see it moving so slow

but I believe there is no choice. By exposing all this information you are establishing a case for impeaching the results.

[peacetalksforall]

Criminals hiring criminals and and theft facilitated by government

criminals.

[Pallas180]

42. that's business as usual for this cabal for the last 50 years n/t

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[zeemike]

7. You are not wrong

The dead giveaway was when they changed the meeting to exclude most of the members.
That is a clear bureaucratic tactic to say we are not interested. They will do nothing.

[Trillo]

10. "He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual,

uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures."

~~~~~~~~

A Familiar story....

[Boredtodeath]

17. Perhaps it has something to do with

Bev Harris calling Shelley out on national television.

If you want to ally with someone you don't make a point of making them look like an ass publicly.

[Andy_Stephenson]

22. Bev did not "call him out"

Howard Dean did.

This problem needs to be dealt with NOW. If it takes calling out public officials...then that is what it takes. Howard Dean ROCKS!

BTW this problem exists in 37 States. California is only one.

[Boredtodeath]

24. OK, if you say so

But I know what I saw with my own eyes.

[ParanoidPat]

56. Why would Bev 'call out' someone who has been an eloquent.......

.....spokesperson for our point of view? :shrug: :evilgrin:

Have you read Kevin Shelley's address to the California Voting Systems Panel?

The Address

Members of the Voting Systems Panel and Ladies and Gentleman behind me, I understand, from staff, that I, as Secretary of State, am breaking precedent by appearing before this panel. I appreciate all of the sage advice that you give me and recommendations that you make, but I felt it appropriate to break precedent, given the circumstance of the item you are hearing and discussing at the moment. My concern is beyond the individual item that is being discussed as it applies to Diebold and the recommendations to be made in that regard. It's much larger than that.

The core of our American democracy, members, is the right to vote. And implicit in that right is the notion that that vote be private, that vote be secure, and that vote be counted as it was intended when it was cast by the voter. I think what we're encountering is a pivotal moment in our democracy where all that is being called into question – the privacy of the vote, the security of the vote, and the accuracy of the vote. It troubles me, and it should trouble you.

Now, initial presentation was just made on the findings of the report, and I want to thank you very much for conducting the study and for the important review you provided. I know the VSP will soon be asking questions and then making some recommendations, but there are a number of things that this report details that are very troubling. There were unqualified uses of software that had not been approved by the Federal government; there were uncertified uses of software that had not been certified by the State government; and the software was used in a number of instances. That is deeply troubling because it's a violation of the elections code. There were lax accounting procedures, whether it be by counties or whether it be by this very agency, where we have not had a sufficiently extensive mechanism to assess, on a regular basis, what systems were in use.

I think that, on the county level, the audit reinforces my comments on American democracy – that on the county level, the physical security of the voting is sound and the county registrars and their excellent staff are doing a very good job in ensuring that security, but that the technical security is less sound, and the procedures that should be and must be in place at the county level are not sufficiently in place now.

At the same time, we – the Secretary of State’s office, the entity the election code charges with the responsibility to certify systems – bear responsibility if we're not on a consistent and regular basis assessing what software systems are in place. I believe we have the finest elections staff of any Secretary of State operation in the country (no disrespect to the other forty nine). Having said that, for every state election program, it's a new era and we must adjust our procedures, our assessment mechanisms, our approaches towards assuring the privacy, accuracy, security, and integrity of those votes. Now I know a number of recommendations will be made today. I look forward to implementing the recommendations of this panel to provide, from this office’s perspective, stronger mechanisms to address them – be it bi-annual assessments, be it regular auditing, be it spot checks, be it a number of things that came out of the recommendations of the touch screen task force.

You know it's very interesting that, recently when I made the decision to require a paper audit trail, a number of county officials very respectfully denounced them and a number of vendors, many of whom are represented behind me, said it wasn't necessary, said their machinery was secure. At the same time, a number of those within the community, the voter advocacy community, have oft times alleged Armageddon if we don't make immediate changes. Well you know, I don't know who's right.

I'm like the average voter. I don't know. And because I don't know, I want the confidence that a paper trail provides. And like an average voter, I want the confidence that a stronger assessment mechanism at the state level will provide. And like the average voter, I want the confidence that stronger procedures at the county level will ensure the accuracy, integrity and privacy of those votes. Once again, the right to vote is the most precious demonstration of our democracy. We must take it seriously, we must cherish it, and all of us, at the county level, at this office, and in the election vendor community, must act accordingly.

Now the audit is not complete. We don't have all the findings as yet, and we don't know what's occurred comprehensively. I would hope that the end result sanction that we suggested we might make today, pursuant to this hearing taking place, won't be the suggestion of de-certification of Diebold systems. I would hope that won't be the case. I certainly hope that won't be the case with other vendors as well. But if we find that there are gross discrepancies and violations, I am prepared to go down that road, and so this needs to be taken very, very seriously. And with that, I thank you for your time and I'll let you continue with your hearing.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Kevin Shelley has been under constant fire for a couple weeks

with non-stop stories in the SF Chronicle digging into his campaign donors. I can't help feeling that he's being "targeted" by someone-- and I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't have something to do with his stand against Diebold and No-Trail Electronic Voting. I strongly suspect that someone powerful is trying to warn elected officials off this story. Just my hunch.

[AndyTiedye]

15. Shelley started caving in around the same time

Though if Bush* tries to steal California would ANYONE believe it?

[Cleita]

21. No one believes that Assnold is really our Governor.

But no one has done anything about it either.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. They'd need to rig a helluva lot of machines to give Bush CA.

More likely, I suspect, is the fact that a major elected official from the most populous state in the nation is (was) getting out there and saying, wait a minute, these folks have legitimate concerns and we need to make sure the process is trustworthy.

2 weeks ago he appeared with Bev Harris on, what was it, some show on CNBC that was being guest hosted by Howard Dean. It was great, and I thought everyone concerned did a great job, but it wouldn't suprise me if that sort of thing would cause Diebold and Co. to shit an absolute brick.

I suspect he's being targeted or set up in some fashion; but how to prove it?

Just out of curiosity, MacGreevey didn't take some kind of a stand against paper-trail free electronic voting, did he?

[Cleita]

20. No shit.

No one gave a damn about Kevin Shelley until now.

[AndyTiedye]

13. and "Recounts" are Done with The Same Optical Scan Machines

I don't think they allow a real hand recount here. Unless that has
changed, we will have to get the Legislature to do somethng about it
as soon as they get back from vacation.

[Cleita]

23. From precinct walking the past few weeks, it seems

about half of the California vote will be absentee if my precinct is a good sampling. We have to make sure those votes are counted. Anybody going to be monitoring the counts? I haven't heard of any such movement here in my County.

[Andy_Stephenson]

26. Absentee is no safer...

the votes are still counted on the Diebold central tabulator...the one we hacked into in front of the SoS's people.

[flpoljunkie]

33. Absentee ballots would provide a paper trail, which could be hand counted

if we can force the issue in the courts.

[Andy_Stephenson]

36. The laws in most states do not allow the hand counting...

of the "paper trails". The machine count is the legal ballot of record. That is why we should be demanding a "voter verified paper ballot" that is the record of the election. Paper trails are not worth the paper they are printed on.

Paper Ballots = Paper Ballots

Paper Trails = Cryptography

[flpoljunkie]

37. The absentee ballot would be a paper ballot, wouldn't it? But in FL, NO

recount, unless the results are within one-half percent. I reckon the hacker would make sure the race would not be this close.

Is our only hope a federal judge or judges ruling that we must hand count paper ballots as DRE and opti-scan are vulnerable to hacking and fraudulent results?

[flpoljunkie]

41. In 2000, Katherine Harris instructed counties that a recount was not an

actual hand count of the opti-scan paper ballots, but just looking at the printout tape from the machines--an opinion which was contrary to the one issued by the previous head of the Department of Elections, in direct response to what reconstituted a recount on an opti-scan machine.

[RedEagle]

57. Can you source that?

flpoljunkie, got a news story or something about it? Could be helpful.

[ParanoidPat]

59. Read this and tell me what you think.

.....from, http://election2000.stanford.edu/00-2346_HarrisResponseamended.pdf

-6-
1. Would a discrepancy between the number of votes determined by a
tabulation system and by a manual recount of four precincts be considered an ‘error in the vote tabulation’ that could affect the outcome of an election within the meaning of section 102.166(5), Florida Statutes, thereby enabling the canvassing board to manually recount ballots for the entire county?

The Division Opinion answered this question by stating that a manual
recount is available only in certain limited circumstances:
(U)nless the discrepancy between the number of votes determined by
the tabulation system and by the manual recount of four precincts is
caused by incorrect election parameters or software errors, the county
canvassing board is not authorized to manually recount ballots for the
entire county nor perform any action specified in section 102.166(5)(a) and (b), Florida Statutes.
By contrast, the Attorney General answered the first question in the
affirmative, without placing any limitation on the power of a local canvassing board to conduct a manual recount. The Attorney General concluded that an “error in voter tabulation” can be “a discrepancy between the number of votes determined by a voter tabulation system and the number of votes determined by a manual count” of selected precincts. This answer was based on a construction of section 102.166(5), Florida Statutes, that omits any standard for the anvassing board. In other words, any discrepancy, regardless of the cause, would be sufficient to vest a local board with the discretion to call a wholesale manual recount according to the Attorney General.

[ParanoidPat]

25. This account is a little inaccurate.....

.....in that it would lead one to believe that you would need a laptop to hack an election. Anyone who has access to the machine running GEMS can open notepad and type in a six line VBS script,(the seventh line was there to make the little 'click yes to change results' button. :)) save it and change the results by simply double clicking on the saved file. :scared:

Our white hat hacker, Hugh Thompson, showed them how it can be done in about 9 seconds on a machine that has no other available input devices, besides a keyboard, and is not even loaded with MS Access to get into the database!

Anyone can do it, that's why they call them 'script kiddies'! :evilgrin:

[flpoljunkie]

27. Question: Who all would have access to the machine running GEMS?

[Andy_Stephenson]

29. As an example...in King county Washington...

we have about 530 polling sites. 1-2 people have the number to "modem in the results" so here in King county we have at least 1000 people with the phone number to the central count computer. The main number rolls to the next available modem...btw there are 48 modems in the King County machine. In LA I am sure there are more polling sites and a far greater number of people with the number. The same story would hold true for say Alameda County.

[flpoljunkie]

30. Do all opti-scan systems have this fatal flaw, i.e., Accu-Vote Optical Tab

[Andy_Stephenson]

32. If the system is feeding votes into the GEMS server

Yes they do.

[flpoljunkie]

35. Do all the opti-scan systems use the GEMS server? Or just Diebold?

[Andy_Stephenson]

38. No only Diebold

but all the systems are secret and we have no idea.

[ParanoidPat]

34. That's a really good question, no one really seems to know!

As part of Bev and Andy's investigations, they have interviewed many elections supervisors who oversee the central tabulators under their jurisdictions and none of them can produce a list of people who have access to the machines. Bev, Andy and Jim March have been submitting Public Record Act requests which are routinely denied because such records do not exist! :crazy:

[nofurylike]

31. have you met with Jimmy Carter on this?

will you please take everything and meet with him, ask him to get you the ear of U.N. election monitors, or the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (though they scare me, as the repug congress is saying they will allow them to monitor our election, though wouldn't allow the UN)?

we are running out of time, and it's getting worse, from what you said, and recent news.

**

bottom line, maybe, my mom wants us all to do a slogan campaign:
"well," she said to me, "if the election is going to go to the best hacker, i'm taking out a want-ad: 'wanted: a few good democratic hackers.'"
as she saw it, if we thusly put equal fear of bbv in repugs' heads, we might stand a chance of paper ballots.

i thought it was an excellent idea. but then, i fell to deluded trust that this threat was finally being dealt with, so didn't start her campaign back then. now...

time is running out.


peace

[Pallas180]

39. I was just going to post the same. take it to Jimmy Carter--

ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[Pallas180]

40. Also go on AIR AMERICA with it and try O'Lielly & Hannity- they cant

be that fargone that they wouldnt let America know

especially O'Lielly....has been mildly bashing Bush lately

obnoxious flannel mouth that he is..if the died in the wool faux news
followers hear it on faux news...they might wake up

[ParanoidPat]

44. I contacted the Carter Center. org prior to the 2002 elections.....

.....and received a response to the effect that their charter does not authorize them to monitor elections in the United States!

[Andy_Stephenson]

49. Pat...it is up to all of us now...

Democrat and Repoublican to ensure a fair honest electoral process. Unfortunately I don't think we can rely on these machines any longer.

[ParanoidPat]

50. Not after what I've seen!

Yep, keep everyone focused on the 'layers upon layers' of bogus security and leave a hack so easy any kid can do it in a matter of seconds.

Speaking of bi-partisan, It was a blast meeting Jim at long last! If he and a 'gun grabbin', tree huggin', dirt worshippin' enviro-wacko like myself can get along, anyone can. ;-)

[SophieZ]

53. There is one possible last ditch plan.

Ellen Theisen and Voters Unite have come forward with the idea of having paper ballots, HAND COUNTED, in the precincts, for just the federal elections.

Here's my understanding of what would happen: everyone in the US votes for their US Rep., their Senator (if there's a race for that), and President on paper. It would be either optical scan ballot or regular paper ballot.

Those who use DREs -- the federal races are taken OFF the DRE ballot. Simple paper only, just for those two or three races that are for federal office.

Hand count in the precinct BEFORE the ballots leave the precinct. Results signed and posted at the precinct.

What needs to happen: Congress needs to pass it.

How expensive would it be? The paper ballots, because they are not going to be scanned, would not be particularly special -- could be printed locally. If precincts don't have a lock box (glass bottom is extra good), they can buy one.

How long would it take to hand count 1000 votes or less for three races? Not long.

Has this ever been done, to split the procedures for voting, between electronic and hand-counted paper? Yes. Pompano Beach Florida had one race done on paper because it was a long initiative; they said it went fine.

Voters Unite is gathering a coalition to urge this. Contact them if your group wants to join. Congress members are in their home districts now (or ... on vacations paid by us or lobbyists). Go see 'em.

They can do this OR have elections that remain contentious even afterwards, in a divided country.

They can do this or expect protracted litigation, delays, potentially a government that is not acknowledged to be legitimate, and possibly all the things that could happen when citizens don't accept their government. Imagine more than half the citizens wondering if their votes were counted, wondering if they were disenfranchised.

No biggie here -- just billions of dollars, wars, the environment, the Constitution..... -- all at stake.

For more info on the Federal Paper Ballot Act of 2004 (No number yet - can't be introduced until Congress resumes):

www.votersunite.org

The future of the country rests with 218 Representatives and 51 Senators --- but it really rests with thousands of people like YOU, giving them no choice but to do their duty!


If you want to hear Ellen Theisen, she was on Sunday Monitor tonight.

Go to the archives and click on Sunday Monitor -- Sunday, Aug. 22.

http://www.kpftx.org/archives/kpftsignal/index.php

It's about halfway through, after the author of Bush Unplugged: The True Patriot's Guide to George W. Bush, and intelligence analyst Wayne Madsen, talking about Porter Goss.

[hedda_foil]

72. Yep, Ellen and Voters Unite are working with

The National Ballot Integrity Project www.ballotintegrity.org (which I'm very involved)on this initiative. It's going to be HUGE. Listen to Ellen's report. There's LOTS more to come.

[nofurylike]

60. ** !! URGENT!!** you all have worked incredibly hard

and so have become extremely visible now.

you're in national media now.
you have raised the awareness of the entire country on this threat.

you now have the ear of those you did not in 2002.

WE HAVE WEEKS TO GO NOW.
WEEKS.
you would not even try to talk with Carter? - not his organization, HIM.

don't you think the folks at vanity fair have some means of connecting with him? i am certain they do, among the MANY MAJOR media connections you all have built up.


please do this. i do not have the ear of such persons.


peace

[PATRICK]

46. meeting with eh people being leaned on

by Diebold? Some have suggested blackmail was used to shift the California position. You need to stop doing what do with my manuscripts, namely having a knack of wasting time with the wrong person.

List of people interested in saving their nation from electronic takeover(not cute little occasional fraud):

The world. Canada, the home of Jeffrey Dean for one. All customers of this crap worldwide. Does GEMS have any correlation to software used overseas?

Lawyers. fraudinternational.com. Any interested party not snowed by the ACLU's being suckered in? Anyone up on the 21st century?

The entire democratic Party ambling along through legislation that is much too late looking to challenge results too late that cannot be challenged.

Any AG who isn't more interested in chasing tobacco dollars. Spitzer? For God's sake, for the smoke these machines are heading for NY, the perpetual lobbyists' doormat, next year.

The press doesn't get it very fast either. The Nation belatedly put an article out. The cutting room steers hard away from using the concept of planned fraud or criminal intent. Even the very idea.

ANY computer institute or organization that can knock some sense into the heads of people totally ignorant about computers 101.

Michael Moore- if he can get the point?

This is like discovering that a comet is coming to annihilate the earth and no one is interested, all the responsible people become one of the three monkeys. The fact that I believe your report and that there is no tremendous upheaval anywhere is clear proof that we are living in some weird fantasy world somehow.

Is this some massive Fate that is plunging on, the Cassandras in chorus notwithstanding, their evidence clutched in their pleading hands?

By the way, this is sure case for having some agency or part of one in
DC being solely dedicated to vote fraud. Right now it is just some whimsically enforced, rarely punished oddity concentrating on amateur individuals. Maybe if the FBI had some focus other than storming rest homes and frisking Democratic senior citizens they might easily prevent the electoral equivalent, not of 9/11 but democracy's voting booth Armageddon. The damned information is no longer secret or conjecture. As with Moore's use of F9/11 material it is just laying there for the taking.

On the other hand I am not surprised. Reno did nothing about vote fraud before or after 2000, including walking into the sucker trap in her own Florida primary. And the HAVA fine tuning that always ends up with the door left wide open where it counts. And the perpetually stupid media which never seems to understand any science beyond third grade level in any discipline and mostly gives out chamber of commerce booster reports. I KNOW Dem leaders get only part of these things, always too late and once a mark always a mark.

[Pallas180]

43. G_dBushnCheney - so what do we do to help? how can we

help bev and you get the word out, or do something in each state?

[Pallas180]

45. GBNC Course after they change results, someone coud have our own hackers c

change the results back or better.

That could be a good threat to all of them.......go ahead, change
the results of the vote.....then we'll have our hackers go in after and change the results too......either get on the up and up, or we'll have someone in every town to fix the results - with 7 lines- just like you do.....you dumbassses..

how bout that?









ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[Andy_Stephenson]

48. There is no place in a Democratic Republic

for vote rigging...from either side. That is what I am fighting...I won't go there.

It has to be honest if not then why bother?

[Pallas180]

51. GNBC- there is nothing honest about these globalists - the intent

is world domination and they dont play with integrity and honesty.

Perhpas there's a time to fight fire with fire.

BTW - another poster said she/he worked for the repugnants during the
2000 election - and the reason Gore didnt fight and ask one senator
to second him - was that the repugnants had a "holding place" ready for him - they were not going to allow him to sit as president at all
if he won - they were going to begin charges against him of illegal
donations and put the Senate pro-tem in until they could impeach him... whether it was true or not, I dont know...but it then made sense to me why Gore would not allow the black caucus to back him up,


As we have seen over the last 30 years, or perhaps since JFK, these
people from the shadows who now have full control of the United States
government dont know anything about playing fair.

Didn't Bush say: "dictatorship would be much easier, as long as I am
the dictator"..

Do you think he was kidding?





ai yi yi, chihuahua, this lil yappy doggy follows me wher'er I go.

[ParanoidPat]

54. I have to go with Andy on this one......

.....compromising an election, especially one for President, in order to demonstrate that elections can be compromised is an ill advised strategy.

The truth will eventually get out. It's our job to make that happen. :evilgrin:

[Zan_of_Texas]

58. Intent is world domination and they don't play with integrity and honesty.

I agree with that. And one of the essential elements of governing in our society is to play fair with the minority, the group that "lost" (even though Al Gore had half a million more votes in the presidential election). The Republicans have not been playing fair at all, not even giving copies of legislation to Democrats in some cases. They electronically eavesdropped on the Dems' computers in the Senate Judiciary Committee, so they knew their strategy for months on judicial appointments. The redistricting in Texas was an amazing amalgam of rule-changing and sleight of hand, and the role of citizen input was a charade -- they changed the times of hearings, didn't post them timely, they didn't even show the redistricting maps, the real ones, until the last second, so all the input was on a different map anyway.

Karl Rove and his predecessor Lee Atwater are/were apparently quite devoted to Machiavelli. There are a number of followers of Leo Strauss, a cult philosopher at U. of Chicago decades ago, who wield power in BushCo, including Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Abram Shulsky (Office of Special Plans a/k/a office of very special WMD intelligence, cooked just right), and Clarence Thomas. And yes, even Ahmad Chalabi (U of Chicago Ph.D. '69).

According to his own public estimate and boast before the American Enterprise Institute, President George W. Bush hired about 20 Straussians to occupy key positions in his administration.

Strauss' philosophy was not democratic, but believed that deception was necessary for rulers (and advisers to rulers), that elitism is good, that aggressive nationalism is good, that religion is good for the masses because it keeps them occupied. Those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right - the right of the superior to rule over the inferior. Strauss believed that the essential truths about human society and history should be held by an elite, and withheld from others who lack the fortitude to deal with truth. Society, Strauss thought, needs consoling lies. An elite recognizes the truth, however, and keeps it to itself. This gives it insight, and implicitly power that others do not possess. The lies of leaders are noble; lies of the masses are to be punished. Machiavelli was right, they believe; there is a natural hierarchy of humans, and rulers must restrict free inquiry and exploit the mediocrity and vice of ordinary people so as to keep society in order. Under the Straussian view, humans do not inherently have dignity -- only the few have dignity. Under Strauss, to help the poor, the young, the elderly, the sick is to coddle them, and it is counterproductive.

I think we have been playing under one set of rules, and the other side has a completely different set.

I'm not saying we should use their rules, but we need to recognize the rules they play under. And think carefully about how to win or even be competitive, when the referees (judges, legislators, and media) have largely been wooed to the other side. We're playing paddy cake, and they're playing war. Oops, not playing. Their side thinks torture of prisoners is justified.

[Andy_Stephenson]

47. Well our investigations are not free.

and we have a major trip coming up...this is for the big one and remember all donations to BBV are tax Deductible.

Secondly join the clean voting crew and become a poll/central count watcher.

Third Write letters to the editor...tell everyone you knnow about this situation and urge them to tell everyone they know.

We are tipping the balance but now is the time for a full court press.

Andy

[Pallas180]

52. GBNC - I volunteered to Bev's e mail & never heard back about

being a poll/central count watcher.

I'm in FLORIDA

for 2002 I volunteered as a Dem poll watcher - and we had the machines
then ---I checked the tape - but at about 5 o'clock a man came in
and handed the woman in charge a list of votes to be added to the count?????

I saw and heard the conversation...but not the results...

who and where do I contact GBNC?


and have Bev or somebody write up a sample letter...and put it on top
of a new thread....a letter for people to follow - and you'll get action.


There's a free number to congress...and ACLU has a free fax number...

forget e mails...they count em but dont read them.

[Zorra]

62. No one will take this seriously, but I'm going to try again anyway.....

We need to organize a general strike and boycott in order to shut the country down for one week, the first week of October. Everyone that understands the dangers of electronic voting should participate, and encourage other Democrats to participate. If enough of us "stay home with the flu" for one week, we will have a powerful effect on the economy. This will bring the electronic voting issue right out into the forefront of public attention. Non-violent, passive resistance. Our Boston Tea Party.

Can this work? Does anyone have a suggestion that will lead to a more effective result?

They are not listening to us. We must force them to listen. We don't have much time before the election.

The Black Box Flu.

[cthrumatrix]

63. we need to raise the tone of our outrage immdeiately or another

theft is around the corner...bet on it.

What can we do?

[Zorra]

66. If enough people participate in a week long general strike and consumer

boycott, the country will not be able to fire on all cylinders. We could conduct a mass email campaign among Democrats. Our internet media sources could publicize it. Perhaps an organization like Moveon could support it. We could present the facts about the electronic voting issue to the media prior to the strike, and blast our legislators with letters, faxes, phone calls and emails describing why we are striking and boycotting.

We have been ignored and discounted, despite our presentations of the massive evidence which proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the American people do not have confidence in electronic voting, because results from these machines are demonstrably not reasonably verifiable, and that the machines themselves have been proven to be riddled with technical problems making them unacceptable for use in any election in the United States. Etc.

This could be our one demand:

In the interests of a verifiable, fully auditable, and honest democratic election, all electronic voting in the US will be suspended for the November elections, and all voting precincts that plan to use electronic voting machines must substitute paper and pen ballots based on the Canadian model.

We are the People. We are supposed to be the Government. Our "Government" is refusing to listen to us.

From the Declaration of Independence:

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

We are confronted with an imminent threat to our democracy. If we are not reasonably guaranteed a free and fair election, and because it has become clear that many republican legislators have refused to listen to our requests and take legislative action in the interests of the people, and are directly supporting methods of election fraud for the purposes of a creating a one party despotism, then we are no longer a democracy. It is our right, and our duty, to preserve our democratic processes. Electronic voting machines must not be used in the November elections under any circumstances. We must force them take acceptable legislative action, through every non-violent legal method necessary, to provide us with the means of conducting a transparently fair, honest, and verifiable election process.

What would happen if 5 or 10 million people got the Black Box flu and did not show up for work or buy anything for one week? Would it have enough effect for the media to have no choice but to bring the electronic voting issue into every living room, and in the face of every legislator?

[ParanoidPat]

67. Good luck trying to organize that.......

.....It would seem that getting 5 or 10 million people to contact their Congressmen and Senators to ask them to support Rush Holt's bill, HR 2239, "The Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2003", and it's Senate companion bill, S. 1980, would be a much better use of our energies and would not inflict any more economic harm on our already ravaged country. :)

The ultimate goal is to get legislation in place that requires paper ballots to be produced for voter verification at the time the vote is cast and that they be used as a mechanism to audit the results reported by the machines.

The two bills sited above are not perfect but getting them to the floor for debate and modification is imperative.

[Zorra]

69. Pat, the problem is that the republicans will not take any

steps to pass these bills unless they are forced into it by direct economic action by the People.

I am very aware of the Holt bill and the Graham bill.

Here is a letter from Howard Dean to Chairman Ney regarding a paper trail, which was accompanied by a petition signed by over 120,000 American citizens:

To the Honorable Robert Ney and the Congress of the United States:

We must act now to ensure that our voting systems produce accurate and verifiable results. Some states are planning to use machines that will not allow voters to verify their choices. This means that any flaws in the machine or software will never be caught – and no recount will be possible.

And the head of the largest e-voting machine company – who is a major contributor to George Bush and has promised to deliver Ohio to him – asks that we just trust him.

Today we call on you to require any electronic voting machine used in this election to produce a paper trail – one that allows voters to verify their choices and officials to conduct recounts.
Signed,
S/Howard Dean

http://www.house.gov/cha/deanlettertext.htm

Here is the Chairman of the Committee on House Administration Ney's ( a republican) total BULLSHIT response to this letter from Howard Dean regarding our petition for a paper trail. (IMO, a must read):

Dear Governor Dean,

I am in receipt of your letter dated June 22, 2004 and the accompanying petition you indicate has been signed by 127,469 persons. I note your website continues to solicit signatures for the petition (along with contributions to your organization).

Left-wing groups like yours and America Coming Together that are exploiting this issue to inflame your supporters and raise money for yourselves are recklessly making claims that are unsupported by the facts. You should realize that if your demands to retrofit all electronic voting machines with printers before November 2004 were met, it would ensure an electoral meltdown that would make our last presidential election look orderly by comparison. In calling for nationwide deployment of a voting system that has never been used successfully in a single election in this country, you are doing a great disservice to the voting public you purport to defend.

The arguments of “paper trail” proponents like yourself can be boiled down to one central assertion, i.e., that paper ballots are the only way to ensure an accurate election. You should recall that the ballots cast in Florida in November 2000 were cast on paper. Furthermore, every documented episode of election fraud in our nation’s history has been perpetrated through the manipulation of paper ballots.
snip------
The issues surrounding the security of electronic voting are currently being reviewed by the Election Assistance Commission, in conjunction with the National Institute of Standards and Technology. I am confident the experts at these organizations are fully capable of determining the extent to which problems may exist with these systems, and if they do exist, making recommendations about how to address them. That is the appropriate way to handle this issue, not by making uninformed and premature legislative decisions based on misinformation and hysteria.

http://www.house.gov/cha/neyresponsetext.htm
:grr::puke:
Ney just basically told us all to fuck off in this response. Obviously, the wishes of 120,000 plus "peasants" mean nothing to Ney. He is an arrogant, fascist asshole. How does that feel to you? Do you get the sense that republicans are going to act on these bills?

Let's strike and boycott and force assholes like Robert Ney to deal with electronic voting. His corporate masters will force him to take action if we cut their profits.

Here is a petition I signed, what was it, seems like a year or more ago? (Anyone that hasn't signed it yet, please do)

http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/petition.cfm?itemid=14993

These bills are being held up by republican dominated committees, and republican legislators are refusing to sign on to them. Do you honestly believe that republicans are going to allow these bills to go through committee?

Bill status:

H.R.2239
Title: To amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require a voter-verified permanent record or hardcopy under title III of such Act, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Holt, Rush D. (introduced 5/22/2003) Cosponsors (149)
Related Bills: S.1980
Latest Major Action: 5/22/2003 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on House Administration.

S.1980
Title: A bill to amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require a voter-verified permanent record or hardcopy under title III of such Act, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Graham, Bob (introduced 12/9/2003) Cosponsors (5)
Related Bills: H.R.2239
Latest Major Action: 12/9/2003 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.

If Bu$h steals the election, it will already be too late to do anything about it. Republicans have already placed themselves above the law and the will of the people. No legal redress, no matter how valid, will be considered. We should have learned that by now from the results of the 2000 election and the subsequent actions over the past 3+ of our republican controlled government and judiciary.

I am really glad that all those nice folks that fought tooth and nail to found this nation did not consider temporary (and rapidly declining) economic comfort and security to be more of a priority than creating a democracy.

At least, thanks to them, we got to enjoy about 220 years of relative democracy before it ended.

We have little more than 2 months left before the election. If a strike and a boycott sound like extreme measures, then I suggest extreme measures are called for. Jefferson was called an extremist also. Fortunately, most of the people in America at that time were not yet comfortably numb, and realized that all the talk in the world was not going to get them what they wanted. They had to take action, and the action they took made them all extremely uncomfortable. I guess that they thought that living in an independent democracy was worth their temporary extreme discomfort.

Approximately one third of all voters in the US are going to use non-auditable electronic voting devices in the elections this November.

I guess it is just best to sit back and relax on the couch, sip a latte, turn on a "Sex and the City" rerun, and hope that Bu$h and the republicans do not use electronic voting machines to steal the November election.

And I do not at all mean to disparage the efforts all the folks that have been so committed, and have been working so hard for so long on this issue for all of us. I thank you all from the bottom of my heart.

But it's getting awfully late. Are we going to win if we do not take another course of action as well?

It's up to y'all. I've been striking and boycotting and working against Bu$h since the day the Supreme Court selected Bu$h. I don't know what else to do.

If someone has a better, more effective way of stopping electronic voting from taking place in November, count me in.

[ParanoidPat]

71. "I guess it is just best to sit back and relax on the couch,.......

........sip a latte, turn on a "Sex and the City" rerun, and hope that Bu$h and the republicans do not use electronic voting machines to steal the November election." :crazy:

Ummm, yeah, whatever you need to do.
I think I'll just continue to try to hedge my bets for the next election by raising awareness of the issues surrounding the use of this technology and enlisting the help of anyone I can get to actually register and vote or, better yet, get out there and act as poll watchers.

It sure beats watching TV. :evilgrin:

Causing undue economic harm to people and businesses that are unrelated to the issue serves only to alienate those who are injured by your actions. Likewise, hacking an election to prove it can be hacked serves only to piss off the voters who are affected and it does very little to woo people to your cause by perpetrating what most would see as an irresponsible act.
Not to mention the slight legal problems that might arise under the Patriot Act. :scared:

[Zorra]

73. Pat: I understand that hacking an election is wrong. But the fact is:

Nothing, no people, no business, no nada, is unrelated to this issue. Bu$h gets selected by BBV, and we all go down. You get a one party fascist totalitarian state. We, the People, lose. Lose. Forever.

What is so damn difficult to understand?:

We, the People, want paper ballots. Paper and pen. Paper and pen. Ballots we can actually see, and count, and recount. Like Canada does so efficiently. Ballots that you and I can count. God dammit, what the heck is so difficult to understand about this?

UNDUE economic harm? I repeat, undue economic harm?

You want to trade your microwavable snacks and your lattes and your lame RW TV shows and your SUV paid for on credit for your democracy?

If you do, then you can kiss my red blooded America loving ass.

Raise fucking "awareness" all you want. Now, this is a good thing. I try to do it every day. The sad fact is, it is too little, too late. There are only little more than 2 months before the election.

Unless someone has some information that will miraculously change the fact that one third of all US voters are going to vote in the fairyland of manipulable, inauditable cyberspace in November.

I work my ass off everyday to get people to register to vote for John Kerry.

What good is it going to do if their votes are not counted correctly? What good is it going to do if they vote for John Kerry, and their vote for Kerry is not counted, or goes to Bu$h?

The thing is, Pat, I guess I'm just not very good at telling people that Bu$h is a genuine, bonafide, certifiable fascist, and that the republicans are going to use electronic voting devices to steal the election in 2004 and create a one party totalitarian state. I have this tendency to be overly frank and candid. Maybe I'm just too extreme.

But it does not seem to me that "moderates" have done a whole lot of good relative to the BBV issue. Only the "extremist", activists have. Activists. ACTIVE.

Well, I guess it really does come down to what I need to do. I guess I'm hoping that DU can be the springboard for an active campaign to make "our" government listen to us, and take steps to to provide the means for a genuine transparently verifiable democratic election.

I need to kick every comfortably numb semi-concerned American ass into effective action. Like I tried to do in 2000 about our election being stolen, when no one would listen, when I was screaming bloody murder about how Bu$h would be a war mongering, civil liberty stealing corrupt fascist, because they were too GD concerned with their mini-me economic security, lattes, and their favorite TV shows. AAAArgh!

Wake the fuck up!

"I think I'll just continue to try to hedge my bets for the next election by raising awareness of the issues surrounding the use of this technology and enlisting the help of anyone I can get to actually register and vote or, better yet, get out there and act as poll watchers."

Well, good fucking luck, amigo. (Personally, I'm not a gambler, and don't take risks unless I've got a 90% plus sure thing. And we have a little more than 2 months left. You get Bu$h, you lose everything. You stop electronic voting, Kerry wins, Dem Senate, and you hit the jackpot.) I do all the "socially and politically acceptable" things also, in a different environment. I am arranging it so that American citizens who will vote against Bu$h, and who live in Mexico, will get absentee ballots so that they will vote. I have offered to drive people, at no cost to them whatsoever, thousands of miles to their local polling stations in the US in order for them to cast their ballot against Bu$h.

But I reiterate: Our government is, almost completely, compromised by RW corporate interests. If you can't recognize this fact, then I can say with full confidence that you don't know jack shit about what is going on in this country. Once Bu$h is selected, all legal challenges will be moot. No exit polls, and no proof that you present about voter fraud, will overturn a Bu$h selection. I'm not saying don't go full on and try everything possible, I'm just saying that, when it comes down to the bottom line of the Supreme Court, they are going to select Bu$h. Because 5 conservative Supreme Court Justices have already proven that they are compromised, and do not make decisions according to law and fairness, but according to their partisan, republican bias.

I may be wrong. I hope that I am. But I have very little past evidence that would make me doubt the accuracy of my statements. The SCOTUS decision regarding the 2000 election and the Florida recount weighs heavily upon my mind. 5 justices of the SCOTUS were provably wrong at that time, and they damn well knew that their decision was wrong at the time that they made it.

So, what will poll watchers do? Complain about irregularities? Do you really expect your right wing republican government and your biased right wing SCOTUS to overturn a fraudulent election in which their puppet was elected?

Give me a break. The time for action is before the election, not after. Can anyone guarantee me, an American citizen, an honest, transparently verifiable election in which electronic voting devices that provide no individually or publically-observable physical evidence are used?

No, you can't, because it is a physical impossibility. If I am wrong, prove it. I challenge you.

We, the People, MUST have an honest election. It is up to us, and only us to make this come about.

Our "government" is REFUSING to allow an honest, verifiable election.

If you believe I am in error, then prove me wrong, with documentable facts.

I dare you.

[HFishbine]

64. Two Questions

1) No press?
2) "Andy Stephenson, former candidate for Secretary of State for Washington"??? Primary loss?

[ParanoidPat]

65. The members of the VSP considered it a closed, private meeting.....

.....and made us turn off our cameras. 60 Minutes called in advance and asked for permission to tape the meeting and demonstration but were denied access. The California officials were so worried that we might be able to prove that they were aware of the extent of the problems with the Central Tabulators that they held up the meeting for an hour and a half while awaiting their lawyer. Once their attorney arrived, they ordered that all recording devices be turned off and they even told us at one point that we couldn't take notes! :crazy:
We did meet with a producer for 60 Minutes for about four hours just prior to the meeting. Lets just say that she was very interested in what she saw. Keep your fingers crossed!

The video we shot of them challenging the presence of our camera crews and then storming out of the room is priceless. :)

In answer to your second question, Andy has unfortunately dropped out of the race for Secretary of State after carefully assessing his chances of success in the election against his time requirements in continuing the series of investigations into the electronic voting issue.
The State of Washington's loss is a gain to us all.
When it comes to digging out the paperwork and cold hard facts, Andy is the best! :toast: :evilgrin: :yourock:

[Zan_of_Texas]

68. A similar dodge was used in Georgia.

When Roxanne challenged the Georgia officials to give her an opportunity to hack one of the Georgia machines (they got Diebold statewide -- the first state to do so) and PROVE it could be done, they first said they would. Then they kept backing out, an inch or two at a time. Proprietary doncha know. By the end of their backdown, according to Roxanne, they were offering her the oppotunity to hack a plastic box with no software in it.

It's definitely time to think, um, out of the box!

The media and both big parties have each other in mutual strangleholds and are not gonna help, for the most part. The big guys don't want to be first to break it either. Just my opinion.

We gotta get this to enough people to double and quintuple the groundswell that already exists. Then quintuple it some more.

Gotta get their attention....hmmmmm.....football? sex?

The best single thing anyone has said in this was Diebold CEO O'Dell saying he was committed to delivering the electoral votes of Ohio to Bush.

Maybe a DRE could be caught (with photos) having sex with an Israeli of the same sex? Oops, that's NJ. Sorry.

I'm just trying to think of what would capture the imagination of the unimaginative American people, that the media would HAVE to report.

The biggest scandal in generations and the media is suppressing it.

[hunter]

70. Looking for one brave election official...

... to crack this ugly thing open, and damn the tainted contracts.

Strip the software, the hardware, and the procedures naked. Tie them to the operating table and examine them carefully, no matter how loud they scream.

Put on your rubber gloves, your gas mask, and your protective goggles, because this ain't going to be pretty.

Removal of gangrenous limbs and organs is an ugly job, but you've got no choice. If you don't do it this nation will die.