If you are Irish, It's time to GET REAL PISSED!!!! ROVE ($%^%#)

[fearnobush]

Karl Rove has compared his pathetic war on terror with the struggle millions of Irish fought and died over for hundreds of years to get their FREEDOM and their Independence. He basically called Irish people, your mother, your father, your priest, the old country....Terrorists!!!!!

Rove compared the U.S. war on terrorism to the decades-old conflict in Northern Ireland.

"This is going to be more like the conflict in Northern Ireland, where the Brits fought terrorism, and there's no sort of peace accord with al-Qaida saying, 'We surrender,'" Rove said.

What about the Irish you piece of shit!!!!

<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040901/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_rove_interview>

[Djinn]

1. well according to the definition they were

terrorism is a method not a moral judgement - unless of course you are a dedicated pacificist in which case "freedom fighters" wouldn't be any more noble - basically anyone who uses violence (particularly against civilians) can beaccurately described as terrorists, even nation states (although the American definition seems to absolve the US government of that) regardless of whether their cause is righteous (after all every cause has it's believers).

[Old and In the Way]

5. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

It only matters who controls the definition.

[Hobarticus]

10. Yes, and like US in Iraq, Britain was an unwelcome occupier in N. Ireland.

Not arguing, I agree with you completely. I just find that Rove would make such an obvious connection so clumsily.

[IronLionZion]

23. I thought the people in Ireland were whipping up the trouble in NI

and that the actual people living in NI support the UK %110?

[truthspeaker]

38. Uh, no.

[truebrit71]

39. Uh, YES...

The majority of folks in Northern Ireland wish to remain British.

[Hobarticus]

58. Fine if you're the majority...

[IronLionZion]

66. nice

coming from someone named truthspeaker.

[PATRICK]

14. The war of words is not over either

terrorist and freedom fighter CAN be defined, but not by parties interested in propaganda over truth. terrorists do not generally come out of a vacuum. The fatuous Red Brigade and religious fanatics are the best examples of terrorists cut off from real interest in any one people's freedom or rights. Once a nation is occupied does it matter that these leech group blend into a resistance situation? The people responsible for the occupation have created their own terrorist problem and the occupied are not terrorists for trying to get them out.

And broadening the definition never stops does it as the blundering extremists of Bushco have done loud and consistently against any and all rivals sometimes irrespective of their relevance to a "terrorist" situation. All they have to be is a political rival, a straw man to terrorize our populace into assent.

Under all broad definitions of course, Bushco itself fits terrorism to 't'-
which is why they bully loudly and fast lest we think about it.

[Djinn]

21. so what's the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist

There are plenty of current and historical figures I would consider freedom fighters but I couldn't argue that they weren't also terrorists

You mention the religious nuts but what about nations like Afghanistan just after the Russian invasion - the VAST majority of that nation didn't want a Soviet (Godless commie!) puppet govt (even though it'd be very easy to make the case that the Afghans were better off during Soviet rule than they were at any time in the following 25 years) they WANTED an Islamic government, and the Mujahadeen were freedom fighters according to pretty much every single person in Afghanistan - they were also religiously motivated.

When the Shah of Iran was ousted in favour of an Islamic Republic very few people in Iran wanted otherwise (what people feel now is a different thing) religious nut and freedom fighter isn't neccesarilly mutually exclusive (and that's coming from an avoewd atheist)

[On the Road]

59. The UK Won the War on Terrorism in Ireland

(as its currently defined) by granting independence in 1921.

They held onto Northern Ireland and have been unable to extinguish terrorism there after more than 80 years.

[MichiganVote]

2. Pretty stupid considering the Irish had a higher functioning society

before they were overun by the Saxons.

[librechik]

3. let the imperialism cat out of the bag

oh, so we are going to be overseers and the rest of the world is our colony? How humble of us!

FLIP FLOP

[seemslikeadream]

4. Cac ar oineach

Go n-ithe na péisteoga thú, Karl

[Teaser]

24. translation:

May you be eaten by worms, Karl.

Just starting to learn Gaeilge. Wish me luck.

[Maeve]

37. Maith thú!

Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste, ná Béarla cliste. (Broken Irish is better than clever English.)

[Emboldened Chimp]

6. He's calling my ancestors terrorists?

FUCK HIM!!!!

[FarLeftRage]

7. The Irish in me is pissed!

How dare he insult my much loved, deceased maternal Grandmother and her family.

He is truly a totally worthless piece of sh*t, who has less rights than diseased ameobas to exist on this earth...

What nerve this motherf*cker has!!!!!

[KoKo]

8. Remember: Rove/Bush/Blair...joined at the hip

It's all about Empire...Irish and Scots don't fit it, here...:-(

[Djinn]

18. actually the Irish and Scots were willing accomplices

in the colonial brutality inflicted on Native Americans and Kooris. Don't get me wrong this isn't a Celt bash - I'm a born and bred Scot but it's just that occasionally the Irish and Scots tend to forget about the oppression they assisted when chest beating about the bloody Imperialist English.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Remember the protestant settlers in Ireland were Scottish

sent by the Scottish-born King James VI (after he had also become King James I of England and Ireland). Don't pretend that the Scots were innocent in creating the current religious divisions in Ireland.

And infact I'd think Blair will be very pissed off at what Rove is saying. Most people regard the Good Friday Agreement as one of the best things Blair did (I'm not saying it was all down to him, but as UK Prime Minister he was part of the push for it).

[Cronus Protagonist]

63. "Religious divisions" is a canard

It's all about occupation of a sovereign country and has little to do with religion. It just so happens that most Scottish are Protestants and most Irish are Catholics, but that's not why the IRA was blowing up busloads of schoolchildren and women in retail stores.

There is a significant number of both Irish and British people who lay claim on each side of the issue who have no religious affiliation at all, becasuse the Northern Ireland "troubles" are about imperialism, not religion.

Lick Laura's Bush - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - FUCK BUSH
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[muriel_volestrangler]

70. No, It hasn't been about imperialism since partition

If it had been a case of retaining empire, then the country wouldn't have been partitioned - Britain would have tried to hold on to all of it.

The reason for partition was that a large part of the north was threatening continued civil war if it was kept in with a newly independent Dublin, and those people were overwhelmingly protestant. One of their main fears was the influence the Roman Catholic church would have on the new government (and it did have a lot, for quite some time). Britain had no special colonial or imperial reason for holding on to Ulster. Dividing the country looked like the best way to get peace at the time.

The current 'troubles' started because Catholics were being discriminated against, by protestants. When Britain failed to address this quickly enough, and made fuckups like Bloody Sunday, the support for the Provisional IRA went up. This support was mainly among Catholics.

Even after the peace agreement, religion is definitely a large factor. The flashpoints are protestant marches through catholic areas, and catholic children trying to walk to school through protestant areas.

[mzmolly]

9. Bill Clinton helped to resolve that issue. I'd say we need a new Prez.

I'm Irish, and yes ... Rove is a dink. :hi:

[greatauntoftriplets]

11. He said WHAT????

<=== Please note avatar and know where my sympathies lie.

Bobby, you may be dead, but you were elected to the English Parliament!

[IronLionZion]

67. Bobby Sands?

[greatauntoftriplets]

71. None other than.

A great man.

[brook]

12. Rove's

a piece of shite. Bad cess to his crooked feet!

[KamaAina]

13. Guess who's next? The Swedes. That's right, the Swedes.

KKKarl is of Norwegian descent (sorry, Norwegian DUers!) and he's still carrying a grudge against the Swedes from a hundred years ago!

http://slate.msn.com/id/2099277

Page 250: Karl Rove, a Norwegian-American, is obsessed with the "historical duplicity" of the Swedes, who seized Norway back in 1814. This nationalism manifests itself as hatred for Swedish weapons inspector Hans Blix.

Yesterday the Swedes. Today the Irish. What a moranic bigot.

Please help us elect Kerry so we can get this douchebag a job alongside Bob Boudelang at the fish cannery. Pleeeeeeeeeze?

[Stockholm]

31. Well...

We Swedes are not too happy with Karl Rove either. His views of Sweden are well documented as Dubya discussed them with our PM during his last visit to the White House!? Guess there were no more pressing matters to discuss such as Iraq/Afghanistan.


In this Swedes humble opinion Rove can go cheney himself.

[JHB]

41. Ah! Rummy's "old Europe" line becomes clearer.

Reeealllly old, like about where they want to take us.

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to the Ninteenth Century!

[miss_kitty]

45. yo-a lot of Norwegians feel that way (dislike Sweden)

it has more to do with the Sweden's 'neutrality' in WWII. Sweden got Norway in a Napoleonic deal off of Denmark, which had held Norway for over 400 years...but this thread isn't about that so i will say:

The Irish, Scots Irish, English AND Norwegian in me find Rove's statements to be utterly offensive, and about as intelligent as something Bush would say. But this is just more proof of insensitvity on the part of neocons (as if we needed any)

let's hope he offends the shit out of many Bush-supporting Irish and Irish-descended voters.

[Swede]

53. All I can say is "Bring it on!"

[name not needed]

15. That worthless fuck

:mad:

[Fone Book]

26. That slimy motherfucker

Has Rove done a single good thing in his entire life? How dare he insult my people, and one sixth of this country like that! Doesn't he have any fucking shame?

[HEyHEY]

16. Fuck him! Stupid prick his kind were the same that repressed the Irish

For centuries. Calm down, he'll be gone soon (rocks back and forth)

[roguevalley]

17. So, basically ... my family and my grandparents are terrorists. ...

[HEyHEY]

22. Yup!

All that time my grandfather spent working on the railway was REALLY for terrorist causes! Especially when he help build the launchpads at Nasa!

[H2O Man]

19. The Irish Echo

is the largest selling Irish newspaper in the country. They speak for the majority of Irish-Americans when they print weekly articles that expose this administration as the enemy of democracy. I can't wait to see what they have to say about Rove next week. He should resign in shame after taking part in the effort to expose Valerie Plame, if he is serious about opposing terorism.

[Zorra]

20. This is a fucking outrage against the good people of Ireland!

Rove is cockroach larva!

He should resign immediately.

Better yet, Karl boyo should go fight terrorism in Afghanistan tomorrow. Take it straight to the Taliban.

I'm way more worried about Bu$h and Rove and the rest of the neocons killing people in the US than I am about terrorists, and that's the truth.

[miss_kitty]

46. "Rove is cockroach larva!"

please! you insult cockroach larva!

[greatauntoftriplets]

25. Paraphrasing from an old bit on a Clancy Brothers album....

Up the long ladder
And down the short rope
To HELL with King Georgie (it was originally King Willie - of Orange)
And God bless the Pope (apologies to Irish Protestants out there)

And if that doesn't do it.
We'll tear him in two
And send him to hell
With his red, white and blue.

[TriMetFan]

27. I have a question?

The people of Ireland are they Catholics? So if so that would mean that not only did Rove called the Irish People Terrorists but also the Catholics too. Am I right or wrong in thinking that.

[DemBones DemBones]

33. You got it! He's not talking about Ian Paisley or

any of the Orangemen, who side with the Brits.

Rove is talking about Irish Catholics.

[JohnKleeb]

68. My research tells me that Mr. Paisley spoke at Bob Jones

hmmm, thats interesting.

[JohnKleeb]

69. Yes the majority of the Irish people are Catholics

Nope you're right and it doesnt surprise me either that they would resort to anti Catholicism, Catholics are a long time Democratic constiuency and Bush said a basic FU to us when he spoke at Bob Jones in 2000, that place is not only racist against other races but against other faiths too.

[maveric]

28. So, people who fight invading armies to take THEIR OWN country

back are terrorists? HMMMM???

Were the Polish and French resistance terrorists? So that makes the nazis.... Oh never mind!

Fuck You Karl! And dare try to take a stroll through the streets of Dublin or Limerick.

[Norquist Nemesis]

29. Hold on a minute! I'm Irish

and while I admit to not having a whole lot of knowledge about that conflict, I DO know at the base of it was a religous war. So, :wtf: is he really saying here?

[vincent_vega_lives]

57. No one in the North considers it a religious war

it just happens to fall along religious lines. It is about rights.

[greatauntoftriplets]

72. And a class war to a great extent.

n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. I guess we can now add the Irish

to the long list of groups the Rethuglicans have disrespected in some way. We know they have no use for people of color except as props. And now, statements made since the convention started indicate that we can also write off the Irish, veterans, gay people, and Iowans (that's "the hinterlands," according to The Shrub) as being unworthy. What a bunch of reptiles.

[miss_kitty]

47. "What a bunch of reptiles."

please! you insult the reptiles, an entire Class of animal whose very existance on this earth is beneficial...please curse, or use the names of products of bodily functions when describing neocons....

[MadProphetMargin]

34. Speaking as a Scotsman, ALL of you Irish types can eat haggis.

Rove can eat something else.

Points to the first person to guess.

[coeur_de_lion]

35. Lie, lie, lie

"There are not going to be ads and such by the Bush campaign about this, but it's something that the American people have a right to take into consideration."

Pasty dough-boy lies every time he speaks.

The Irish are going to have a field day with this.

[slojim240]

36. If you invade other people's country, take it over you are not "terrorists

You are "colonialists" or "pioneers." If you fight back, you are "terrorists." It's just that simple!

[Bridget Burke]

40. Except that there IS a peace accord!

There have been people meeting & voting & working together to end these troubles. Of course, Bill Clinton was a great help, so I can see why Rove is ignoring the whole process.

Hardliners on both sides continue to foment trouble, but there is hope. In fact, from the Belfast Telegraph: A surge in drunken violence has made the streets of Belfast more dangerous today than at the height of the Troubles, a magistrate has said.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=557506

It's an odd sort of improvement, but sports, business & where to buy organic food seem to be the current hot topics in Belfast.

(Well, there's a story about Ian Paisley calling all journalists "Romanists" because they'd questioned his health; some things don't change.)

[Plaid Adder]

49. Exactly--see my post below

Either Rove hasn't paid attention to Ireland since 1980, or he's just making shit up as usual.

Sigh,

The Plaid Adder

[Surf Cowboy]

42. Deserter Attacks War Hero, White Trash attacks Irish--Film at 11:00

[seemslikeadream]

43. An Irish curse or two

O Jesus dear God and Father of the Lamb. Who sees us in fetters and in bondage so hard. As you made us Christians between Friday and Monday Protect us and banish this scum from us..



May you be afflicted with the itch and have no nails to scratch with!

[Plaid Adder]

44. I've been saying since 9/11 that the US was turning into Northern Ireland

...circa 1972, and now I know that wasn't just one of those sublime historical coincidences.

First of all, if Rove really believes that statement, then he's an idiot who doesn't know anything about recent Irish history. For his information, the period during which Margaret Thatcher was maintaining her "we will never negotiate, and we will intern and jail as many people as possible" hard line was a period during which no real progress was made. The cease-fires, the Good Friday agreement and the power-sharing structure now in place are all the result of all sides realizing that they had to negotiate with each other--and, I might add, with the help of President Clinton and the U.S.'s role as a third party broker.

The sad thing is that Northern Ireland is actually an example of how to resolve a violent situation WITHOUT bombing the crap out of everything you can reach. However, from the way he's using it, it appears that Rove's knowledge of Northern Ireland doesn't extend beyond the Thatcher years, which would make sense, since as we recall, the last time Bush went to Belfast his campaign staff made some unbelievable gaffes which revealed that they 1) didn't know the difference between Belfast and Dublin and 2) didn't know the difference between Ireland and NOrthern Ireland.

Oh well,

The Plaid Adder

[1gobluedem]

48. The British were and are OCCUPIERS!

They invaded Ireland. They are the terrorists.

[miss_kitty]

50. exactly. Rove has gotten it backwards...

[seemslikeadream]

51. Well in the war lost me leg, they gave me a wooden peg

Paddy's Lament

Well it's by the hush, me boys, and sure that's to hold your noise
And listen to poor Paddy's sad narration
I was by hunger stressed, and in poverty distressed
So I took a thought I'd leave the Irish nation

Well I sold me ass and cow, my little pigs and sow
My little plot of land I soon did part with
And me sweetheart Bid McGee, I'm afraid I'll never see
For I left her there that morning broken - hearted

Here's you boys, now take my advice
To America I'll have ye's not be going
There is nothing here but war, where the murderin' cannons roar
And I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin

Well myself and a hundred more, to America sailed o'er
Our fortunes to be making we were thinkin'
When we got to Yankee land, they put guns into our hands
"Paddy, you must go and fight for Lincoln"

Here's you boys, now take my advice
To America I'll have ye's not be going
There is nothing here but war, where the murderin' cannons roar
And I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin

General Meagher to us he said, if you get shot or lose your head
Every murdered soul of youse will get a pension
Well in the war lost me leg, they gave me a wooden peg
And by soul it is the truth to you I mention

Here's you boys, now take my advice
To America I'll have ye's not be going
There is nothing here but war, where the murderin' cannons roar
And I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin

Well I think myself in luck, if I get fed on Indianbuck
And old Ireland is the country I delight in
To the devil, I would say, it's curse Americay
For the truth I've had enough of your hard fightin

Here's you boys, now take my advice
To America I'll have ye's not be going
There is nothing here but war, where the murderin' cannons roar
And I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin
I wish I was at home
I wish I was at home
I wish I was at home
I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin
Sinead O'Connor

www.LiveIreland.com
Thanks al bupp

[Teaser]

52. In Irish your handle translates:

"Man or Bush"
for what it's worth.

[scornful]

54. When Irish eyes aren't smiling...........

...they're looking for the nearest weapon! Watch out Rove-ing maniac. There are countless Americans who still carry that same Irish pride and ire in their blood. The same untiring, tenacity that fought the British for so long exists in our country today. And WE are using it to take OUR country back! :grr:

[ezekiel333]

55. Get em!

Welcome to the DU :)

[vincent_vega_lives]

56. The Republic is not the North

You people do realize of course that the vast Majority of the people in the South do not agree with the tactics of the IRA don't you? Not many in the Republic consider reunification a priority .

Oh BTW, the Irish do not consider you Irish unless you hold the passport. They consider you Irish-American.

[Bridget Burke]

62. Gosh, we didn't know that!

Not really.

[genius]

60. Most of the Irish people I know are rich Republicans

[JohnKleeb]

61. What a fucking crock!

Rove you son of a bitch WASP!

[The White Rose]

64. At the risk of being shot down in flames...

Question: What do you call someone who takes up arms against a foreign military force occupying their country and strikes against that military and it's government?

Answer: a patriot and freedom fighter.

Question: What do you call someone who blows off your knee-caps because you wouldn't pay the protection money, or blasts civilian men, women and children to kingdom-come to make a point?

Answer: a terrorist and criminal.

The I.R.A. has been both of the above during it's history and, frankly, has tended towards the latter since 1969. That does not absolve the British government of it's culpability in acts of state sponsored terrorism perpetrated against the people of Ireland, however. But to wholly condemn one party and laud the other reveals the same kind of blind patriotism that fuels the tragedy in Israel/Palestine and leads to the disaster in Iraq. I'll have none of it.

[AspenRose]

65. My Irish ex-boyfriend from many moons ago might say to Rove:

"Pog ma thoin"