9/11 Poll: What really happened?

[JackRiddler]

Here we go again!

WHAT IS YOUR "HOP" LEVEL? If you've followed all the 9/11 speculations, what do you think was the real story? In this poll I offer ten detailed and subtly graduated options, I believe covering all of the possibilies (not including aliens and divine interventions).

Please vote and please only vote once - am genuinely curious to see what the present mood here is. If you give reasons, give them succinctly. Please don't use this thread for some endless detail debate that belongs on the 9/11 board. (I.e., let's not debate the hole in the Pentagon or the building collapse here, okay? Just say so if you think so, but no details...)

ON EDIT: Ooops, some of these choices are too long and get cut off but I think they are clear anyway...

[Emboldened Chimp]

1. I voted apathy

but only because it's the closest to what I believe. The situation is much more complicated, imho.

There is ample evidence that * is protecting Saudi Arabia, even before 9-11. I don't know about the Afghanistan pipeline aspect of it, though it's plausible. On the other hand, there is no doubt that there are elements within *'s circles who want to control the world's resources, therefore control of the world economy. But I think 9-11 was more of a lucky break (so to speak) than LIHOP or MIHOP. They certainly have capitalized on it, but I don't think they allowed something to happen. There are major discrepancies to the official story, Saudi Arabia's terrorist funding chief among them, but I think they are covering it up after the fact to protect the "national interest", i.e. their own asses.

[Ein]

2. I chose Pearl Harbor

"I hit the trifecta" <-- WTF was he betting on.

[starroute]

3. I still don't know what I believe

I can't believe in the 19-guys-with-boxcutters-and-not-a-competent-pilot-among-them theory.

I can't believe in the one-guy-in-a-cave-in-Afghanistan-with-no-modern-communications theory.

The whole thing was obviously planned and carried out at the highest level of professionalism and coordination.

But saying that much also disqualifies the Bush administration, which is just a bunch of jerkoffs and wannabe evil overlords -- not to mention the spectacle of Bush himself on 9/11 running like a scared bunny.

And I don't see elements of US intelligence planning this either -- we're not fighting the Cold War any more, and I can't imagine intelligence professionals being all hot to instigate a major confrontation between the US and Islam. What would be the point?

Mossad are the only ones I can think of who are professional enough, and ruthless enough, and who do have a motivation for setting the US and the Islamic world at each other's throats. But I think the risks of exposure would be sufficient to keep any of our nominal friends from trying to pull off something this extreme.

If we ever get access to some of the hidden evidence -- the airport cameras, or the stock options -- we might have a hope of unraveling this. But without that, I think it's likely to be as permanent a mystery as the JFK assassination.

[Sterling]

8. Keeping their jobs?

"And I don't see elements of US intelligence planning this either -- we're not fighting the Cold War
any more, and I can't imagine intelligence professionals being all hot to instigate a major
confrontation between the US and Islam. What would be the point?"

The CIA and the Military Industrial Complex require a bad guy to provide a reason to exist to the public. I also feel that many at the CIA agree with the PNAC agenda.

I agree that the Likuds share this agenda but the fact is Israel could not have ordered our Air Force to let em slip by as well as other elements of the event that required high levels of government complicity.

[nolabels]

37. If people can remember others did come forward, very credible....

people in fact. After they presented their evidence and questions were asked, they quickly got dismissed as heresy, crazy or projecting.

The 9/11 oddities put a lot more questions up then anyone has ever bothered to solve and sometimes even try explaining. The added part, that the government has spent more time and money studying a single species of an ordinary insect than they ever considered to use on 9/11 tells me how much I trust any conclusions the US government comes up with.

We live in a capitalist society, and to place so much policy and economic resources while at the same time attempting steal our civil liberties on such little evidence makes 9/11 and it’s aftermath the antithetical solution of such a system.

The people who believe the government lines about Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin and the murder of J.F.K. are intellectually lazy at best. This whole mantra about people shouldn’t be questioning the US government and things along the lines of 9/11 smacks of people that would wish for totalitarianism or a theocracy instead of Democracy.

I have seen too much evidence here and in other places to believe something nefarious didn’t go on, and have noticed many others who do not want it known and especially by the normal Joes.

[TheBigGuy]

4. Official Story + Apathy.

I think thats probably the most plausible scenario.

[nostamj]

5. i like a modified double-cross

BushCo planned the thing but the plan was for 'traditional hijackings' which would have been successfully negotiated by BushCo resulting in 'big hero bush'

instead, they flew into buildings and * crapped his pants in a FL schoolroom

[Old and In the Way]

10. The "Players got played" theory

Does anyone remember the story about the CIA plants in Al-Qaeda? No? That got buried pretty good, didn't it.

I think we had intel coming out of Al-Qaeda and Bushco was set up to believe it was going to be a hijacking. I think they wanted to give this the big, prime-time TV treatment. Even had the AF throttling back so as not to accidentally shoot anything down before the scenes played out.

And I think they were double-crossed by whomever set this plan up. So when the 2nd plane crashed, the realization began to set in that their "event" had also gone down in flames.

I really think that's why George went AWOL for the rest of the day....his scriptwriters needed to do a complete rewrite in a hurry. I'd sure liked to have been a fly on the wall of AF1 that day...

[nostamj]

13. it IS a plausible scenerio

that UTTERLY CONDEMNS the bushies.

so, it works for me.

a 'bravely thwarted multiple-hijacking' by brave, determined commander bunnypants would have been a BIG THING.

they got something that they CANNOT allow to be investigated.

do you suppose they burned the pants that * crapped in that morning?

[ferg]

21. exactly

That's exactly my theory.

I think Condi may have been telling the truth when she said "no one expected them to use airplanes as weapons." i.e. they were expecting something like a garden-variety hijacking.

[CaptainMidnight]

23. PUH-LEEEEEZ!

Condi fucking KNEW! OKay?

Do your research!

GOOGLE: PROJECT BOJINKA

And:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-092701genoa.story

""WASHINGTON --U.S. and Italian officials were warned in July that Islamic terrorists might attempt to kill President Bush and other leaders by crashing an airliner into the Genoa summit of industrialized nations, officials said Wednesday.

Italian officials took the reports seriously enough to prompt extraordinary precautions during the July summit of the Group of 8 nations, including closing the airspace over Genoa and stationing antiaircraft guns at the city's airport.""

Captain Mike

[Sterling]

26. It is sad.

I know even for the smarter than average DUer the idea that 9-11 was all planned is too much to take. Even after people gather the strength to actually question the official story they still hold out the hope that our government is not "that" evil. They keep grasping at straws attempting to mitigate the damage done to their worldview and sense of security.

The problem is that the truth always rears its ugly head and debunks all attempts to give the PNACers the benefit of the doubt.

[Bushknew]

29. Well said Sterling

I really think that there is some serious denial even amongst liberal Dems.

They canÕt even handle a question that might expose a bitter truth.

[cureautismnow]

6. Why THAT Day When Shrub was in FL?

I voted for the "Pearl Harbor" theory simply because it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. After Afghanistan, Bush-boy pranced around in his like Bluttoesque smirky manner saying, ""Was it over when the Germans (Iraqis) bombed Pearl Harbor (NYC and DC)?" He even got the servile media to go along with his charade.

OTOH, I never have understood why the terrorists picked THAT PARTICULAR DAY when it was public knowledge that Shrub was going to be in Sarasota. If the WH was indeed a target, why would you strike when the occupant was away? It seems "incompetently illogical."

In any event, Shrub benefitted from one of the most traumatic days in USA history and was undoubtedly AWOL on this tragic day. Just par for his despicable course...

[Old and In the Way]

24. Actually, it was planned to coincide with another military

emergency simulation that was being run on 9/11. This was also a hijacking scenario, IIRC. So how did they (Al-Qaida)get this info, I wonder?

BTW, this was the lead that freaked Dick Cheney out and the one that he wanted every Senator on the Intelligence Committtee to take a lie detector test about. Interesting, eh?

[Sterling]

7. This should be good.

I tend to think it was ALL very well planned for the most part except for the "oddities" that have become public knowledge after the attacks. Now it is just a matter of keeping people distracted and stupid enough not to care or notice they have been lied to.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

9. Excellent poll kick

:kick:

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Pearl Harbor

WISHING FOR PEARL HARBOR: Bush & Co. intentionally looked the other way, expecting and hoping something terrible would happen, so they could get their whole program through, including the planned war

Like someone else already said.....That trifecta remark says it all. IMCPO

[Bushknew]

12. Too many conditions, either they did it or not. THEY DID IT.

Either they are guilty or not

THEY DID IT.

MIHOP

[belab13]

14. Multiple Intelligence Agencies around the world saw this coming.

and ours did not? come-on! 9/11 was enacted with complete complicity of the turds at the highest levels of government. What about the FAA intercept policy for both commercial and private airplanes that veer of course. and the 20 or so airforces bases within 5 minutes of the flightpath of the highjacked planes that most have been told to stand down.


there's enough guilt to send a lot of people to hell over this event.

[Sterling]

16. I agree

In the context of the last ten years and knowing what the PNACers vision for our future is it is hard to believe that 9-11 happened the way it did and was exploited the way it was was an happy accident for Bush.

The Clinton penis hunt, Selection 2k, 9-11? All of these things were needed for PNAC to be viable. No one gets that lucky.

To believe the "official story" you have to ignore a whole lot of the detials.

[laylah]

15. I voted for another

Pearl Harbor to play into their hands.....:kick: because I want to know what others think

[Bushknew]

17. BUSH KNEW

After Andrew Card whispered into JuniorÕs ear, BUSH KNEW that there weÕre
four hijacked planes over the US and he went on for 30 minutes with his arms and legs crossed!!!

[worldcomflunky]

18. Bush knew enough to not look surprised when Card broke the news

to him that morning in the school room. Whether he knew 100% of the events that were going to transpire that day is still debatable. I voted for Operation Northwoods. If the Joint Chiefs went so far as to present a plan like that to Kennedy back in the early 1960's, then you be damn sure the PNAC gang would be willing to consider a plan like Operation Northwoods(terrorist attacks on Americans)to kick start their agenda. Don't doubt that shit for one second. It may be hard to believe but look how many innocent people the CIA and our government for that matter have slaughtered since World War II to further our agenda? A boatload.

What's 3,000 mostly Democratic voters in New York City. If you ask me, the conspiracy theory, is the fact 19 guys caught us with our pants down that day and got lucky. No f*cking way is that believable. Either LIHOP or more likely MIHOP. 9/11 was the work of a sophisticated intelligence agency. Not 19 guys that used to hang out with Osama Bin Forgotten. The fact the Air Force sat around with their thumbs up their asses is a smoking gun enough. I want the investigation to interview the Air Traffic controllers that were on duty that day. They have YET to do it!?!?! Throw in the fact Bush and his chronies have done everything they can to prevent an investigation should be enough to any normal thinking person that the "offical" story is not what happened.

[Bushknew]

22. I have never seen something so phony.

Exactly, thank you

After hearing that four hijacked planes are over US air space, the best he could do
is frown and give a speech?

[worldcomflunky]

33. Well he didn't give a speech for another 20 to 30 minutes after

Card told him a second plane had hit. He sat there like all was well and read about a fucking pet goat. The WHOLE THING ABSOLUTELY STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN!! To my knowledge no heads have rolled over what happened that day which is another huge red flag. Not to mention the Space Shuttle disaster got ten times the funding for that investigation than the public 9/11 investigation. If it wasn't for the families raising hell, there would not have even been a resemblance of a public investigation. We are in some serious shit people. This gang has already stolen one election and are planning another. Thank god for people like Bev Harris that are out there fighting to try and prevent it. I don't want to even consider what might happen with another 4 years of a lame duck Bush administration with nothing to fear.

[ixion]

32. well put, wcf

You're not alone. I knew that they would use the WTC thing to shred civil liberties... I remember saying that right after the first plane hit. But it's been the vast array of well researched articles (not only by individuals, but by news organizations like the Toronto Star) and it was those articles that allowed me to form the opinion that the WH cabal had something to do with it. Even when the WTC went down, I remember thinking that it was odd that a) they collapsed in the first place, and b) they fell straight down almost as if they were demolished on purpose Really. Watch video of building demolition. But that's speculation. More specific debunking has come from people raising questions about the heat generated by an aircraft full of fuel being nowhere near enough to cause steel beams to become molten, and another about the fact tha cell phones don't work in fast moving airplace in the manner in which it was reported.

There are simply too many gaping holes in the 'official story' render it believable, IMO. And I wouldn't put something like this past them for a second.

Consider the date, for example. 911. Emergency. Coincidence? Or Karl Rove being cute?

[CaptainMidnight]

19. They wished for it, they planned it, they helped carry it out

BIGGEST SMOKING GUN:

In the summer before, the Air Force was quietly grounding record numbers of "scramble-ready" planes just before 9-11.

If you do your research, Even Richard Myers admitted, before his confirmation hearings, that NO planes were scrambled for 90 minutes to protect the most protected airspace in the world. And even so, when they finally were, the were scrambled from Langley, some 120 miles away, and from Otis, in Cape Cod, some 200 miles away, but NOT from Andrews, which is where Air Force One is based, and only 6 miles away.

I simply CANNOT BELIEVE, that after PNAC, Zbigniev, and all those neo-cons "wishing" for another Pearl Harbor, they simply waited for one to happen, and LUCKILY when Bush was President, NOT when Clinton was.

Also, with the whole NWO and trillions upon trillions of dollars riding on this attack being carried out successfully, they would rely upon 19 guys with boxcutters holding off all the passengers on four planes, and having a 100% success rate in overpowering all four pilots and all four co-pilots before ANY of them could punch in the secret "hijack" code?

No way...

Captain Mike
 




 Alert

[worldcomflunky]

20. Your damn right Captian midnight

I know this has been posted before but I am going to post it again for all the non-believers of either LIHOP or MIHOP because it goes right along with what you said about Meyers and our Air Force. Read the information on this website people if you haven't already. No way 19 guys with box cutters caught us with our pants down on that day. It's not rocket science. The PNAC gang put it in WRITING in 1997 that they needed a "Pearl Harbor" event to kick start their agenda!!! They got it and what are they doing??? Exactly what they said they would and it started with Iraq. If this gang is allowed to steal another election, then I can garauntee each and every one of you all hell is going to break loose in Juniors final four years. The draft, more wars, probably liberals thrown in camps and god knows what else.

http://standdown.net/

[teknomanzer]

25. Voted full lihop...

Look at who ultimately benifited from the event... PNAC got thier war,
Halliburton got its contracts, pResident got his selection legitamized.

Also, what is that smell of fish? Why can there be an investigation?
Why was some of that evidence so conveniently placed... Korans, unscathed passport from the wreckage. Why were none of the warnings heeded? Didn't think that planes could be used as weapons? What about the anti-air batteries at G8?

Its all too much to say its all just coincidence.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. I voted for Pearl Harbor, although I don't think Bush and Co. imagined it

would be as horrific as it was. My opinion is that they imagined it would be the statue of liberty or something of that sort.

[Clark Can WIN]

28. Had to take the last one............. I want a little more historical

perspective.

The way I lean right now is that they did have indications that >something< was going to happen. I believe they probably had some idea it was going to have to do with airplanes. I do believe they were willing to let a nasty little incident scare the crap out of people and thus facilitate their lascivious march on Iraq. In fairness, previous Al Qaida attacks on US soil were by comparrison kind of clumsy , I think they thought, in typical arrogant and racist fashion, that Al Qaida would never be savvy enough to pull off a mission as completely as they did. I believe they thought hey, maybe a few people get killed and we get a little property damage and HOORAYYY we get to go kill the brown people and keep their oil.

I don't believe any bomb nonsense. I subscribe faithfully to the notion that extra-ordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Unfortunately I was watching morning television that day and nobody can tell me that I did not see planes hit those buildings so save your breath. This to me belongs with the "we never landed on the moon" and "water is fluoridated to control the minds of the masses" theories.

I believe Bush and Co. has sufficient blood on thier hands with the facts as they stand I am sure time will reveal more.

Just one persons opinion.

[Sterling]

31. I have not seen any DUers claim no planes hit the TC's?

Have you? Controlled Demo and airplanes into buildings are not mutually exclusive.

It is also not necessary to believe there was a controlled demo to believe MIHOP.

[Liberal_Dog]

30. I Voted Northwoods

Plans for a war in Afghanistan are put on Bu$h's desk. The provocation for such a war happens within 24 hours. Amazing, isn't it?

[JackRiddler]

34. kick

k

[JackRiddler]

35. & one last kick for Wednesday morning...

216 voters so far... would be nice to see a thousand so we have an idea what the mood is really like... but clearly the largest bloc here is going with "Wishing for Pearl Harbor," with equal numbers thinking it was less than (no conscious BushCo. involvment) or more than that (LIHOP and up).

[Robb]

36. Insitutional LIHOP

I'm of the somewhat banal opinion that the conspiracy wasn't necessary. This administration's stated broad goals and aims would have been enough to influence thousands of small decisions (investigate this, don't investigate that, institute this policy, etc.) that could lead to an event like 9/11 taking place.

...Sort of a flock theory; give a relatively simple and benign set of instructions to an enormous group, and watch as they interpret the simple instructions to produce complex behavior. Now, if this was the intention when handing out those broad behavior rules, that's another matter, and a sticky one to prove. But not out of the realm of possibility.

[OldSoldier]

38. Put me down for LIHOP leaning toward MIHOP

It was difficult to get some things through airport security in the days before 9/11. Things like knives. You are NOT going to tell me nineteen men managed to get utility knives through airline security without some assistance.

I also think that Bunnypants didn't start flying all over the United States because he was scared. He probably wanted to go back to DC very badly, but his handlers (knowing what he is) sent him all over hell's half acre, with a guy with a gun sitting on the football and no comms links to anyone but Cheney active, because if Bush would have had access to the White House, the red phone at NORAD, or the football before the situation calmed down, he probably would have decided Saddam or Mullah Omar needed vaporizing and started a nuclear war.

[King_Crimson]

39. LIHOP Plus...

for me. eom

[The White Rose]

40. Voted for Northwoods, although

it's quite possible that real suicide hijackers were used (particularly if Bin Laden is still a CIA asset). Since several of the hijackers are reported to be alive and well, I imagine that revealing the true identities of all 19 would be compromising in some way.

Why fake Saudi id's for them rather than, say, Iraqi? I think that there's a power struggle going on in the cartel/cabal that really runs the world, and the Bushies just trumped the Saudis. This may be why they censored the 9/11 report while making it obvious that the data referred to the Saudi regime; what's the point in a Damoclean sword that's already fallen?

As for those DUer's who can't face the possibility of such calculated and traitorous actions by their own government, I congratulate them for their patriotism, but refer them to the experience of history, and remind them that we are not dealing with Americans here, but with the sociopathic employees of an amoral Corporate State.

[tom_paine]

41. Full LIHOP

And those that sat back and let it happen are probably from the same Bushevik-CIA-faction who provided Orlando Bosch or the Columbians with Wellstone's itinerary and security arrangements, etc.

We are dealing with monsters here, of that I am 90% convinced (though I would be very happy if the 10% chance was true and we are victims of our own mass delusion and groupthink.

[DuctapeFatwa]

42. Forget LIHOP & MIHOP --------- DIFOM

did it for oodles of money

[Sterling]

45. I like it.

lol

[Melinda]

43. Bernard Weiner, Counterpunch, and LIHOP

From Counterpunch.org:

By early 2001 and into the Summer, warnings were pouring in to U.S. intelligence and military agencies from Jordan, Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia, Israel, and other Middle East and South Asian intelligence sources, along with Russia and Britain and the Phillipines, saying that a major attack on the U.S. mainland was in the works, involving the use of airplanes as weapons of mass destruction.

Indeed, in June and July of 2001, the alerts started to be explicit that air attacks were about to go down in the U.S.; even local FBI offices in Phoenix and Minneapolis began passing warnings up the line about Middle Eastern men acting suspiciously at flight schools. In July, Ashcroft stopped flying on commercial airliners and traveled only by private plane, and Bush, after but a few months in office, announced he was going to ground, spending the month of August on his ranch in Crawford, Texas. Cheney disappeared from view, and our guess is that he was coordinating the overall, post-attack strategy.

Under this scenario, in mid-Summer 2001, Bush&Co. decided this was it. Bin Laden unknowingly was going to deliver them the gift of terrorism, and they were going to run with it as far and as fast and as hard as they could. The various post-attack scenarios had been worked out, the so-called USA Patriot Act -- which contained various police-state eviscerations of the Constitution -- was polished and prepared for a rush-job (with no hearings) through a post-attack Congress, the war plans against the Taliban in Afghanistan were readied and rolled out, the air-base countries around Afghanistan were brought onboard, and so on. All during the Summer of 2001.

<snip>

Much, much more and yeah - put me down for a definite LIHOP....

http://www.counterpunch.org/weiner0601.html

[9215]

44. How did those buildings collapse so

perfectly with all the material evidence destroyed? Credible accounts by pilots say that the banking turns made by the aircraft could not have been done by even an experienced pilot.

Why was author James Hatfield, who, a couple of months previously reported on the possible use of remote planes being flown into buildings as part of a "terrorist" operation, suicided.

Of course there are alot more questions.

IMO the thing was an inside job, the hijackers were patsies (standard MO)and the planes were remotely guided into the buildings to insure a precise hit at a predesignated spot with the possible use of explosions within the building for "insurance".

The benefits to the BFEE are great, obvious and continuous.

[JackRiddler]

46. a final kick...

277 voters so far, and the trend remains the same:

40-percent-plus believe in "Wishing for Pearl Harbor"

About equal numbers believe in the worse or less bad scenarios...

[mithnanthy]

47. MIHOP

I am convinced this administration MIHOP

[QuietStorm]

49. Inside job

that is my vote. Same group working the war. They were in on it all of them...and I mean all the allies working this war effort.

[Dancing_Dave]

48. Hard to decide between LIHOP's and Northwoods we just don't KNOW.

Anyone who's done some good internet research (+library research where possible) knows that Al Qaeda did not and could not have done the WTC and Pentagon disasters by themself. If you've done some good internet research you probably also know that the U.S. Governments case against the alleged hijackers is weak and it's unlikely that ALL of them even got on those planes. It's extremely unlikely that those inept pilots could of succeeded in taking the planes through the maneuvers seen on radar. Yet it remains very possible that some of the alleged hijackers did get on the planes with an intention of hijacking them.

It's very clear that the neo-con Bush Regime did need this New Perl Harbor and were very complicit in making sure it came out just they needed to...especially SECRETARY OF DEFENCE RUMSFELD. The part about using some silly inept wanna-be hijackers as patsies remains more uncertain.

[QuietStorm]

50. OBL never took responsibility

people forget that. one of the biggest emblems of terror groups is they claim responsibility... OBL was very happy jumping up and down, wished he could claim responsiblity according to the videos we were shown, but HE DID NOT CLAIM RESPONSIBILITY. This was a frame up to make it look like Arabs did it. Look they had the whole blue print for war ready and waiting HOW CONVENIENT came along their provocation. NO I DON'T BUY IT. NORTHWOODS is my vote.

[jfkennedy]

51. Apathy

I voted apathy

[w4rma]

52. Apathy. Except on PR, BushCo is the most inept administration ever (n/t)

[durutti]

53. I Remain Agnostic

There are certainly some conspicuous holes in the official story. But none of the alternate theories has sufficient evidence to back it up.

[QuietStorm]

54. and what are the chances

that IF it IS any of the alternative theories that there WOULD be evidence to support any one of the alternatives. As it is just the timelines on the sky show that day between the FAA and NORAD certainly does support LIHOP. The timelines are the best evidence for that.

We have been shown no real CONCLUSIVE evidence that it WAS al qaeda, JUST the govs say so and look where that has gotten us.