If I see one more post about "EMP" crap re: Wellstone I'm gonna go postal

[karlrschneider]

Nothing wrong with being skeptical, but this crap is far too goofy.
Let me be perfectly clear here, people...there is NO WAY IN HELL that any kind of electromagnetic radiation can render a mechanical control mechanism ineffective. I'm a commercial pilot since 1963 and an aeronautical engineer since 1964. The King Air is NOT a "fly by wire" aircraft. Never has been. Having said that, I don't discount the real possibity that somebody did SOMETHING nefarious regarding Wellstone's flight, these idiotic theories I see propounded at times here are totally stupid.

[GAspnes]

1. agreed

EMP requires a nuke to be effective beyond a couple of feet.

And the Wellstones' plane props were still turning when the plane impacted. EMP off, barely possible. Back on, no way.

[Ready4Change]

2. Non-nuke EMP can be effective at longer range, however

...I'm also a pilot, and I agree that an EMP attack would not have given a sure kill of passengers on a King Air.

Those things said, I am still suspicious of the Wellstone crash. But I don't give EMP theories much credit.

[stickdog]

4. I agree as well. An EMP weapon isn't an optimally effective choice, IMHO.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=19485#

[stickdog]

3. Here ya go, karl.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=19485#

I only ask that you consider sparing the few of your coworkers who are potentially innocent.

[Zan_of_Texas]

5. Iraq playground for testing new technology

Fierce cyber war predicted

Strides in technology magnify info war potential

Monday, March 3, 2003 Posted: 10:49 AM EST (1549 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/03/03/sprj.irq.info.war.ap/index.html


NEW YORK (AP) -- Imagine Iraqi commanders getting misleading text messages on their cell phones. They appear to contain orders from Saddam Hussein but are actually sent by the U.S. military in disguise, directing Iraqi troops to a trap. Or how about a radar that confuses the Iraqi air defense system by showing U.S. bombers in the wrong locations, or heading in the wrong direction? Although information operations has been a tool of warfare for centuries, the Internet and other technologies are boosting capabilities -- and the stakes. Already, the Pentagon has sent unsolicited e-mails to Iraqi generals, encouraging them to defect.

"Warfare is less and less about pushing men and machines around the battlefield and more and more about pushing electrons and photons," said Loren Thompson, a defense analyst with the Lexington Institute in Arlington, Virginia. The Pentagon has been mostly mum about what it can do and plans. Military analysts wouldn't reveal specifics, fearful the Iraqis could develop countermeasures. "One thing I can tell you for sure: People who really know about these programs can't tell you about these programs," said Bruce Berkowitz, a senior analyst with Rand. But Berkowitz did spell out the goals: Shape perceptions and get ahead of the enemy's decision-making intelligence through spying, jamming and deception.

Chris Prosise, a Foundstone Inc. security researcher formerly with the Air Force's Information Warfare Center, said the U.S. military has the same tools available to computer hackers. A virus, for instance, can create "backdoor" openings for later break-ins.
Information operations could also involve steering Iraqis to less-secure communications channels for easier spying, such as by destroying the infrastructure required for encryption. That can be done with bombs, computer attacks or, perhaps, electromagnetic-pulse weapons, which disable electronics with massive bursts of electricity.


<snip>


President Bush already has signed a secret order to develop guidelines on launching cyberattacks. Once bombs start dropping, Bamford said, the military and intelligence communities will likely get all the authority they want. "They'll use this whole thing as a big training ground," Bamford said. "They'll experiment with everything they've been thinking about for a long time."

[Warpy]

6. All we know is that it was an entirely routine flight

until the last couple of minutes, when something went horribly wrong. We know mechanical failure (including the electronic failure that would have resulted from an EMP burst had one been possible) had not occurred. Some information regarding the positions of the bodies at the time suggested something had caused a panic situation among passengers and crew.

My best guess is something totally low tech, like a police department flash-bang somewhere in that plane. Those things are pretty disorienting and would account for the "pilot error" that occurred.

We know FBI agents had been dispatched before the crash occurred. Whatever was done to stun or panic the crew and passengers could conceivably been removed from the scene then or when the wreckage was being collected for transport to the FAA warehouse for reconstruction.

Because it was an experienced pilot, a clear day, and a routine flight with mechanical failure ruled out, I tend to don my colander hat and think it was sabotage within the cabin.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. Your explanation makes sense to me, too

If the plane was deliberately crashed, it was brought down by low-tech means, such as you describe.

EMP seems unlikely in a plane that has no vulnerable parts, but a radio-triggered explosion of whatever magnitude could explain a lot.

[Swamp Rat]

7. If I hear one more person say, "I'm gonna go postal..."

How do we know you are a "commercial pilot since 1963 and an aeronautical engineer since 1964?" You might be an alien lizard that has infiltrated DU, trying to interrupt an investigation by human civilians who want to know why they have lost control over their government.

If you are a human, then you'll be happy to provide lots of links and scientific evidence to help the other humans who are trying to stop the alien lizard invasion.

[bvar22]

8. Gone postal yet?

I'm watching the crawler on CNN.

[Catherine Vincent]

9. If you do, make sure you do it in a Red state.

(just kidding....I live in a red state):-)

[Minstrel Boy]

10. "Hide thread" function disabled?

:shrug:

Why the compulsion to start a crap thread of your own?

[ghostsofgiants]

12. ...

Completely off topic: Nice to see a fellow NDPer on this site.

[Minstrel Boy]

14. There are a bunch of us on DU.

You should have been here during the election. We Canucks ran amuck.

Welcome aboard.

:hi:

[ghostsofgiants]

15. ...

Haha, I spent most of my time on Babble during the election.

[T Town Jake]

11. Agreed...all such speculations are simply...

...tinfoil nonsense. :tinfoilhat:

[JetJaguar]

13. Question

At the time of the incident, in your opinion, should the
navigation lights have been on or off?