it's the American majority, not Bush, that is the problem

[skjpm]

No one is forcing them to like Bush. No one is forcing them to be willfully ignorant. I just can't wrap my mind around a country in which the majority, given the freedom to choose, choose Bush. Where am I? Bush is not the problem here. I just feel lost in this country.

[jasmeel]

1. My feeling exactly!

I get so frustrated that it's such an uphill battle getting people to vote for Kerry. Why do so many people chose to stick with a guy who has failed us?

[K-W]

2. What majority are you talking about?

Most of the country barely cares, doesnt vote, and doesnt take calls from pollsters.

Of the portion of the country that does care, Bush has somewhere around half support.

That is far from a majority.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

12. I agree

With what you are saying. But, I disagree with it being far from a majority. It is true that a huge section barely cares and doesn't vote. It is also true that of those that do Bush has about half of that support. So, if 50% does nothing at all and 50% of the remaining half supports Bush then that indeed is a majority. That is approx. 75% of this country that either supports Bush or sits idly by and watches while he and his cronies destroy this country. Which is worse, the one who watches the crime being committed and says or does nothing to stop it or the one who actually committed the crime? I believe they are both equally responsible.

[foo_bar]

73. 51% of 50% is a plurality, not a majority

[Dhalgren]

76. No, the poster is right. A majority either support Bush

or do not care one way or the other. If the 50% of the eligible voters don't care enough one way or the other, and so don't vote, are added to the roughly half of the 50% that DO vote and vote for Bush - that's + or - 75% of the eligible voters who either support Bush or don't care if he is defeated. It is sickening...

[foo_bar]

77. 75% of eligible voters support LaRouche or don't care

20% of the half-empty portion of the glass is beyond salvation.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

78. Thank you

[Selwynn]

24. That silent majorit y is most responsible of all.

If you don't care and don't vote, you're repsonsible for the horror.

[K-W]

35. Yes, but that doesnt make you a supporter of Bush.

[Selwynn]

39. Yes it does.

If you don't oppose the power, you endorse the power by your silence.

I should clarify: there is a difference between an act of deliberate conscience and simply not caring enough to participate. Those who don't care enough to participate, are accountable - like the political equivanlend of a criminal negligence charge, in which the prosecutions argues that your inaction, was that of depraved indifference, and you are responsible for the consequences of that inaction.

Acts of conscience are different, someone who makes a conscience choice not to vote because he/she cannot in good faith support the politics of either person is a different situation. I may disagree but that's not the same as knowing what's going on and saying "I don't give a fuck." There is culpability in that.

[K-W]

44. I totally understand your point.

And I am not trying to defend those who do not participate or take any blame off them, but the simple fact is they do not support the president. They tolerate the president, they follow the president, they ignore the president, they dont support him.

It is an important destinction because people on this thread are making it seem like Bush is acting with some kind of popular mandate. It is important for us to realize that this is not the case. Bush's policies are not the policies of a majority of Americans, they are the policy of a radical minority that has been thrust upon the country through manipulation and lies.

[Selwynn]

47. toleration, following... that's support.

And sadly, I can't agree with you. The country on the whole moves further right every year. :(

However the fact is - neither you or I can prove what we say about the "majority." I don't have the pulse of 200+ million people, nor do you. But this is what it feels like to me, and it seems like these feelings are backed up by what actually happens in our country each year...

[K-W]

49. Why do you feel the need to redefine words?

Tolerate and support do not mean the same thing. People who dont vote are not supporting Bush, just because thier actions create an enviroment that aids him in getting elected. If they supported him, they would go and vote for him.

You made a good point. Those who refuse to participate are just as responsible as Bush voters for the mess we are in, that doesnt mean they support Bush.

The idea that Bush's administration is majority rule is completely out of wack with the facts. He ran in 2000 on a superficially moderate platform. He had his whole base out and plenty of swing voters, and still lost the popular vote. Amongst voters he didnt even have a majority.

I get your point, and it doesnt disagree with my point, you are just getting caught up in a word, you would like to use the word support to articulate exactly how much non voters and passive citizens by not acting have consented to an agenda that was never thier agenda, but that they should be fighting. Fine, use that rhetorical twist, but dont turn it into some kind of new definition of the word support.

I guess our only real disagreement is that Bush is acting with a mandate of the majority. I really dont see how you can justify thinking that. There is no data to back that up.

[Selwynn]

72. I feel you are doing more redefining than I

Just because people don't care enough to actually vote doesn't mean that when asked their opinion they don't support Bush. I believe more people support conservative politics today than oppose. Besides this, it is exactly as I said before, even under the law of the land my friend, the law even understands that sometimes doing nothing is a crime. Why is a person able to be punished for doing nothing? Because in certain circumstances, a person's inaction literally becomes - say it with me - SUPPORT for a crime. If you know better and do nothing, you aid/fa ciliate the occurrence of what you know to be wrong. As much as you might like to think people can sit on the sidelines and say "well, I didn't resist tyranny but I didn't support it either" that's a lie. If you don't resist, you help the enemy out. It is helpful to the enemy, i.e. it gives support to the enemy when people don't fight them. Period. And no amount of saying, "well in my heart I don't support their agenda" is going to change the fact that in the flesh your inaction gives great aid and support to that very agenda.

Sometimes doing nothing is a crime. You are not holy executor of proper definition of the word support. Whether you like it or not, soldiers who not stop the enemy when they have the means are frequently considered to be aiding the enemy through their inaction - that's support. We are soldiers when it comes to standing up for what's right in our country. And we're in a war between people who want to destroy it and those who still believe in its greatest ideals.

Allowing someone to operate unimpeded is to give support to their aims - in other words it is to "help" them out. In doing nothing, we allow others to carry on, we help them by not stopping them, we give them "support" to their endeavor by not undermining it. This is where the phrase "giving comfort to the enemy" comes from. It doesn't just mean actively participating along with them, it means by either action or inaction aiding them in their endeavors. Sometimes having the means to resist the enemy and refusing to do so is just as much support as handing the enemy a weapon would be.

All I am trying to say is that people are responsible for their depraved indifference, when they allow a tyrant to rule, know better, and can't be bothered enough to do anything while others suffer. That kind of passive "allowance" (which is the word I'll exchange for passive support, though it means the same thing) is absolutely wrong - and as inexcusable as actively voting for Bush and knowing better.

As far as whether or not a large majority of the country is conservative and getting more so every year is true or not, there is no hard data to back either one of us up - you're just going to have to accept that. What I feel is my impression. What you feel is yours.

[CrispyQ]

42. Yep, Michael Moore nailed it when he said --

The biggest political party in America is the non-voting party.

[nightperson]

46. The majority is always on our side on "cultural issues"!

Year in, year out. Democrats fought the cultural wars for Americans, have been winning for some time, but have not really bothered to reap many rewards.

Abortion, stem-cell research, dislike of the Religious Right, etc. It's not even close. The majority think Ashcroft's wars on bongs and porn are ridiculous! The majority don't think we have "too much" free speech!

Instead, Democratic pundits and politicians worry "What did Rove's surrogate just say on CNN about some obscure, peripheral issue from another decade or generation? What on Earth shall we do? We have so much to be guilty about! We're so out of touch! This changes everything!".

Bush comes off like a televangelist. That's never been acceptable to most Americans, and by God it never will! Let's play to our strengths, and use specific issues that people are either for or against like abortion (hello, the Supreme Court appointments aren't a scary motivator once typical people are reminded?), not empty non-partisan easily co-opted phrases like "security", "jobs", "education"(who is claiming to be against that shit?)- heck the repubs even use "freedom" cuz' it's so vague and typical!

[billbuckhead]

3. TV-radio-media is forcing them to like Bush

They call it "managed" democracy. Our real opponent in this election is the media. The Bush regime's major opponent is reality. The people must see the disconnect between what the media says about__________and what the reality is. They say we've turned the corner on the economy, they say "mission accomplished", they say we're winning the war on terror, they say...........

[PROGRESSIVE1]

6. The media is indeed the problem here!

[President Fredo]

34. Yes, it is the media that is responsible.

I hold them solely to blame for the disconnect between what they tell people and what is really going on.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

4. You are not alone

All of the calls to battle, all of the we must expose the lies and corruption of this administration. Where all of these points are problems, what people fail to realize is that Bush and his cronies are not THE problem. The real problem is the 50 percent of this country that have the truth and the facts practically smacking them in the face but CHOOSE to turn a blind eye and continue to support the liars. Changing their minds is practically impossible. So....where do we go from here?

[sffreeways]

56. I would say

50% of registered voters. The country itself people age 18 to 80 are largely liberal.

I agree with the other statements that non-voters are not supporters of Bush but because they don't vote they are complicit in the crime of destroying our democracy.

Apathy in this age is political criminal negligence.

Shame on non-voters.

[unfrigginreal]

5. Bush IS the problem

as well as the scumbags that support him.

[skjpm]

7. This is the majority that won't believe the fossil record.

You can't argue with evidence. They think the fossil record is faked, they're not going to believe any stupid documents. These are people that can look at the Grand Canyon and say the earth was created 6000 years ago. There's no way to talk to them--but I have to live in a country where they vote, and then I suffer the consequences of their stupidity. Well, me, and the thousands who die as the result of their stupid votes.

[Kimber Scott]

16. They are NOT the majority.

The majority of people agree with democratic principles and the law of reason. This is not only the majority of the people in this country, but the majority of the people around the world. We have come through the "Age of Reason" to where we stand today. There is a MINORITY of people who feel threatened by this, a minority of Christians, a minority of Jews and a minority a Muslims, who would like to take our species back to the dark ages. Don't let them fool you. WE have the power and they know this. This is why they have puffed themselves up to appear twice their normal size. This is why they scream so loud, for their normal voice is but a whisper. This is why they blow things up, for if they did not, we would not know they exist. This is why they plant fear for in fear you can rule the masses.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

23. So....

Do you honestly believe that if Bush goes away so will all of his lunatic supporters and fellow politicians? Will all of this country's problems be solved? I say no, because there is a legion of "Bush's" waiting in line for their turn and they have a huge following. We can get rid of one, but there will be many others waiting in the wings. And as long as they have large numbers of supporters this will be an ongoing problem. What the key is, how do you not only cut off the head but render the body dead also? Bickering about who's military service was better is not even adressing the problem at hand. And until someone weilding some position of power figures this out. We are just spinning our wheels.

[Fed Up]

8. it's a good thing a lot of my neighbors dont express their feelings toward

Chimpy. Cause if they said they were strong Bush supporters, I'd probably never want to give them the time of day or look at them anymore.

Maybe I'd even drive past them if they had a flat tire on a highway.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living in a foreign land.

[vetwife]

9. Bush has just made the people become bolder in hate !

[skjpm]

13. I can't be friends with Repugs either

It's a completely different mindset. Plus, I hold them personally accountable for all the deaths in Iraq. And from assault weapons. And from lack of health insurance. I'm not going to like them better if they win, either.

[I Love Spending]

22. So let me get this straight...

You would leave a person on the side of the highway because of their politics? That is really sad. The way I see it we all have a choice in this country...and contrary to your obvious opinion it is what helps make this country great. If I see someone by the side of the road,,,,I see an individual in trouble, not an opportunity to stick it to someone who has an opposing vew. Its attitudes like yours that polarize people. Maybe I think differently, but whoever wins or looses the election..everyone needs to start working towards getting the country where it needs to be and put petty differences aside. I can only hope that someday your daughter, mother, or wife is not stranded by the side of the road and passed by ....for any reason!!!!

[Crunchy Frog]

30. I would not decline

to help someone because of their politics, being as I'm a liberal, and I believe in helping people. I can't speak for anyone else, but I expect that some people may be exagerating a little in order to express their disgust with current Republican politics.

However, the differences in this election are not petty. If they were, I would not even be getting involved, and if you think they are, you may not be in the right place.

The differences in opinion about where the country needs to be are pretty much irreconcilable at this point. Part of the country wants an authoritarian, theocratic, one party state with a global empire. The other part, which includes myself, will fight tooth and nail against such an outcome.

The attitude expressed by the poster above is not a cause of the polarization, but a product. I believe that most of the polarization has been deliberately created by certain political forces which run non-stop propoganda on radio and television, basically expressing the view that liberals and Democrats are traitors, un-American, should be arrested or worse, and basically spreading hate everywhere. If you don't believe me, try reading some Ann Coulter, or listening to some Rush Limbaugh.

They have made the mistake of thinking that we're always going to just sit back and take it, but they are wrong. Some of the expressions of "polarization" that you see here are simply a product of people who have had enough, and aren't going to take it anymore.

As I said before, if it makes you uncomfortable, this may not be the best place for you.

[I Love Spending]

43. Its not a matter of comfort

It is a mentality that seems to pervade people. It seems as though the moment anyones thought process is not "in line" you are seen as a subversive...isnt that what you are sayng..yet at the same time accusing the right of doing...dont like then move on?? If someone is not open to debate then that is their close minded fault not mine. If you cant learn from someone who disagrees with you then you are no better than those you accuse. I was making a comment about the warped mentality of someone who would leave a person on the side of the road because of their politics...maybe it isnt a warped mentality but at the very least a juvenile one. Democrats/Liberals pride themselves on being the "open armed party...bring me your hungry, down trodden". Yet it appears that for some there is the caveat that you have to agree with them in order to be the beneficiary of their benevolence. I am not taking a stance on anything other than the thought of passing someone by in a time of need is repulsive..or do you see it differently? Politics today has evolved into tit for tat. ON BOTH SIDES!!! And polarization IMHO is not a by product but a choice. Again it is juvenile. The problem is no one from either side will be the first to change it. I will say it right now....and I bet this gets me banned from what I understand...I am an Independent and undecided...so if I were to be banned for saying that, I guess I know what the grass roots of DU thinks of people who dont fall in line. Banning me would help me make up my mind. I am not here to cause trouble, but I ll be damned if I will hold my tongue, or become a sheep.

[Crunchy Frog]

55. There are plenty of Independents

on this board. You will not get banned for that, however, if you are, at this point, still seriously considering voting for Bush, and you express or hint at that on this board, there is a very good chance that you will be.

You may want to look up the rules if you are confused on that point.

I can't speak for other people, but I know that my own feelings of polarization have come from being labeled an anti-American traitor, terrorist sympathizer who should be expelled from the country, imprisoned, or killed one too many times. As well as the comic book portrayals of what I as a liberal believe that I see constantly in the media. I'm just fed up with it, and I will no longer just sit around and "tolerate" that kind of crap like the good little "liberal" that you guys seem to expect me to be.

If you don't think there is disagreement on this board, than you either haven't been reading much of it, or have been reading a different board than I have.

I suspect that you have already made up your mind, and will do whatever it takes to get banned, so you can justify it to yourself. Well, be my guest. Anyone who makes a decision on how to vote on the basis of what happens on some internet board is not IMO the sort I would want on my side anyway.

Vote however the Hell you want for whatever reason you want, just don't whine about the consequences or go around blaming someone else for your own choice.

[independentpiney]

68. As an independent progressive, you expressed my feelings well

"I know that my own feelings of polarization have come from being labeled an anti-American traitor, terrorist sympathizer who should be expelled from the country, imprisoned, or killed one too many times. As well as the comic book portrayals of what I as a liberal believe that I see constantly in the media."

I wasn't happy with the * selection and didn't agree with their agenda pre 9/11,but when they expanded the definition of 'with us or with the terrorists' to include not agreeing with their domestic policies and foreign policy not related directly to al-Qaeda, it was time to strongly take sides

[cidliz2004]

71. Are you looking for a reason to vote for Bush?

First daring to be banned for saying that you are an Independent, then by getting banned from this forum will help you decide to vote for Bush????? Is that all it will take? One stupid forum getting pissed at you? Is this forum THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY? or just a teeny tiny piece of it?

There are some really ignorant crazy people on this site, most though are decent people that want to communicate with people that care about our country much as you do as well as myself.

As far as you being undecided, that is your right, but honestly I don't even BEGIN to understand what the question is. I didn't need to come to this forum to dislike Bush, I didn't need to read editorial pieces to dislike Bush, I didn't have to listen to the Democrats to dislike Bush, all that I had to do was to LISTEN to Bush and watch what has happened to this country to form my opinion on this embarrassment. My own ears and brain did the work for me with this creep. I heard the lies, I saw the stupidity and every night (unfortunately) I see the body count in Iraq increase, sometimes by a 19 year old..... What more DO YOU NEED?????

[mitchum]

41. Hell, I wish that I could specify that my organs wouldn't go to them...

but sadly there is no place for that option on my organ donor information. Call me petty and mean, I DON"T CARE

[vetwife]

48. No progressive I know would leave a person but a republican would !

[sffreeways]

57. Ah...ummm I think the poster

was making a good point about feeling a strangeness, an emotional distance inspired by the behavior coming from our opposition.

One could hardly assertain the politics of stranded motorists as a passer-by. Right ?

It's conservative attitudes that leave the rest of us feeling stranded Mr. I love Spending...pffftt.

What petty differences are you refering too ? I'm curious.

:smoke:

[vetwife]

81. I mean a liberal will stop no matter what usually and the other side

its always about me me me and I don't want to get out of my comfort zone. I don't have time. Whereas I have seen poor, very poor people and very liberal people go out of their way to help someone ..I don't see that coming from the compassionate conservatives so much. I think there are caring people on both sides but for the most part the caring folks are not Bush lovers.
Look at the bandaid purple heart at GOP for example..Did they care who they hurt? Can you see that woman who wore the bandaid stopping to help a stranded motorists? I can't. Too much about what she wants. I saw a man two years ago limping as he only had one leg, walking in the rain,Or trying to walk. My husband and I picked him up and his good leg, was running from pus. That man said he had walked 10 miles and no one stopped to pick him up. No one. He said that one couple stopped and saw his leg running and said they didn't want to take a chance on disease and left him in the rain. We put a towel down for him a blanket to warm up and took him right to where he was going. Now true, maybe thre were liberals and conservatives tht passed him by but you can bet on one thing they were not decent people and I still say the majority that cares are in the liberal corner. We didn't know his politics. It didn't matter.

[sffreeways]

10. I just feel lost in this country

You should, it's the land of the lost.

It is Bush but I agree it is also those that would support him because without them Bush would be just another jerk in a sea of jerks.

I don't think the problem is education although I know alot of folks here point to the lack of it as an explaination for why people are the way they are. For me there are too many contridictions with that logic. I know so many well educated fascists and so many poorly educated decent democracy loving people.

I think it comes down to psychological evolution. Some of us are very very mean spirited, cold, callous, bitter, beasts. Some of us are passionate, empathetic, balanced, human beings.

I used to post an article by several psychologists that discussed the pathology of the conservative mind but I can't find it now. Whenever I would post it the freepers would come out of the woodwork enraged. It seemed to really strike a nerve.

There was an article posted for discussion the other day in GD that talked about mass psychosis and I believe that this really is the problem. The country is sick. Pure and simple.

[smirkymonkey]

29. Great post!

I agree with you (and would love to see that article if you can find it.)

I think there are a number of factors that are responsible for the blind patriotism and willful ignorance of the American public, but it's more than just ignorance and lack of understanding.

There is a hatefulness, a spitefulness to the way many in this country think. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we are - more than anything - a nation of fear. Fear brings out the ugliness in humanity and nowhere is it more apparent than in today's republican party.

I don't recognize this country anymore and sadly, I am beginning to think that we are beyond hope - regardless of who wins in November. That is not to say that there are not good, decent people anywhere -there are. Here on DU and all over the country are people who are trying to make a difference. I just don't know if it is enough to tip the balance over to the side of fairness and democracy.

[sffreeways]

50. Oh I'm tickled I found it

I've been looking for this for weeks ! Thanks for the motivation.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

Change in the Conservative Personality
Equals Change in the Offender
with a Resultant Reduction in Recidivism
by Michael D. Parsons and Jennifer G. Parsons

Abstract

Offenders have many of the characteristics of the conservative personality as defined by Adorno, Collins, Wilson, and Boshier. The characteristics of the conservative personality limit change necessary for rehabilitation. Until that personality is modified, it is very difficult to reduce recidivism. Modification of the conservative personality through education and environment can lead to change in the offender’s behavior.

*********************************************************************

The model in this paper is based on the concept of a conservative/authoritarian personality as it is found in offenders. The concept of the authoritarian personality remains important today as evidenced by coverage in current introductory psychology textbooks (Crooks & Stein, 1991; Dworetzky, 1991; Gleitman, 1991).

“It appears that conservatism has pathological dimensions manifested in violence and distorted psycho-sexual development” (Boshier, 1983, p. 159).

This is supported by a study conducted by Walker, Rowe, and Quincey (1993) in which there was a direct correlation between authoritarianism and sexually aggressive behavior. An investigation done by Muehlenhard (1988) revealed that rape justification and aggression toward subordinate individuals was much higher in traditional (conservative personality) than non-traditional personalities. It is postulated in this paper that the offender has a conservative personality and, therefore, manifests that violence.

Characteristics

•Religious dogmatism

•Right-wing political orientation (in Western society)

•Insistence on strict rules and punishments

•Ethnocentrism and intolerance of minority groups

•Preference for conventional art, clothing, and institutions

•Anti-hedonistic outlook (the tendency to regard pleasure, particularly sexual, as necessarily bad)

•Superstition and resistance to scientific progress (Boshier, 1983, p. 51)

The following is a series of statements or beliefs which can be attributed to the individual who manifests a conservative personality:

•Religion of a dogmatic and fundamental nature

•Commitment to political organizations which favor maintenance of the status quo (even by force)

•Strict regulation of individual behavior

•Militarism

•Preference for people of one’s own kind

•Resistance to change

•Conventional in art and clothing

•Refusal to accept new ideas

•Superstitious and fatalistic (Wilson, 1973)

Both Boshier and Wilson’s descriptors of the conservative personality were congruent with those of Nevitt Sandord, one of the original authors of the work on authoritarianism. Sanford discussed in detail the development of his research of the authoritarian personality, the ramifications of the concept of authoritarianism and updated the efforts from the time of the original work.

*********************************************************************

According to Allport (1954) the authoritarian personality type was one which found daily life and “the consequences of personal freedom . . . unpredictable” (p. 382). He argued that such individuals would look to authority, in the form of society’s rules and laws, for discipline and stability. Allport specified that,

“This need for authority reflects a deep distrust of human beings”

(p. 382) and described authoritarian individuals as wishing to be a part of an orderly, powerful society, with well-defined rules and authoritative leadership; to act aggressively toward deviants and out group members; and to believe in the rightness of power and control, whether personal or societal.

http://www.doc.state.ok.us/DOCS/OCJRC/OCJRC95/950725c.htm


Now I don't argue that every single Bush supporter has a personality disorder or is a criminal. Some are confused, uninformed (although I can't imagine what type of solitary confinement they must be in), some simply vote republican because their parents did before them, but most (hehehe freepers) have a mean streak in them that follows the explanation of the conservative personality and its psychological maladies discussed in this article and others.

It's a great read. A bit frightening when you start to apply the theory to the conservative loons we all know and love...er..ah...strongly dislike.

Some other articles that you may find interesting can be found here:

The Politics of the Authoritarian Personality

http://www.worldandi.com/specialreport/2002/December/Sa22748.htm

Researchers help define what makes a political conservative

BERKELEY – Politically conservative agendas may range from supporting the Vietnam War to upholding traditional moral and religious values to opposing welfare. But are there consistent underlying motivations?

Four researchers who culled through 50 years of research literature about the psychology of conservatism report that at the core of political conservatism is the resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality, and that some of the common psychological factors linked to political conservatism include:

Fear and aggression

Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity

Uncertainty avoidance

Need for cognitive closure

Terror management
"From our perspective, these psychological factors are capable of contributing to the adoption of conservative ideological contents, either independently or in combination," the researchers wrote in an article, "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition," recently published in the American Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin.

******************************************************************

The terror management feature of conservatism can be seen in post-Sept. 11 America, where many people appear to shun and even punish outsiders and those who threaten the status of cherished world views, they wrote.

Concerns with fear and threat, likewise, can be linked to a second key dimension of conservatism - an endorsement of inequality, a view reflected in the Indian caste system, South African apartheid and the conservative, segregationist politics of the late Sen. Strom Thurmond (R-South S.C.).

Disparate conservatives share a resistance to change and acceptance of inequality, the authors said. Hitler, Mussolini, and former President Ronald Reagan were individuals, but all were right-wing conservatives because they preached a return to an idealized past and condoned inequality in some form. Talk host Rush Limbaugh can be described the same way, the authors commented in a published reply to the article.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

Ahhhh :smoke:

[donkeyotay]

62. thanks for the link. It's almost funny.

snip:

“It appears that conservatism has pathological dimensions manifested in violence and distorted psycho-sexual development” (Boshier, 1983, p. 159).

end:

Nope, doesn't sound like anyone we know!

Ah, written in 1983 when liberals still roamed free. They probably killed him, or sent him in for regrooving.

[smirkymonkey]

79. Thanks! I am bookmarking this - it supports so many of

my theories about conservatives. Especially this one:

“This need for authority reflects a deep distrust of human beings.”

FEAR. That's it in a nutshell, that is what defines them.

Also, this quote explains a lot in one sentence as well:

“It appears that conservatism has pathological dimensions manifested in violence and distorted psycho-sexual development.”

Explains a lot, doesn't it?

[sffreeways]

51. Grrr oops

screw up post please ignore

[Gluttony]

11. Majority rules.

[skjpm]

14. The tyranny of the majority rules

I don't think it's intelligence, either--there are lots of smart fascists. I'm sure Ayn Rand was a whiz at Trivial Pursuit. Education won't help. It's a soul sickness, a selfishness and lack of compassion that is just inexplicable.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

17. We have become

De-sensitized and a lazy society with a sense of entitlement and poor behavior skills. Look at the vast changes in what is and is not acceptable in society in the last 10-15 years. Just a few examples.

Teenage girls in mini skirts that barely cover your butt. Acceptable public attire (my mother would have knocked all of my teeth out after about the 2-3 time getting caught)

Video games that graphically show ripping body parts off in victory.

Prime time television (especially daytime TV Soaps) that now have lots of skin, graphic violence and steamy sex in just about EVERYTHING you watch.

Children are no longer afraid of punishment from their parents or their school. No corporal punishment in school, parents, don't spank your child or it's child abuse. (Getting in trouble in school was the least of my problems when I was a kid, my parents wrath was far more scary)

Kids these days have new cars, cell phones, pagers, cable tv in their rooms etc. and are being raised with a sense of entitlement. This has been going on for a long time. In the 50's if a girl showed up at school wearing a micro mini everyone would have gasped with disbelief. In the 50's 60's and I'm willing to even say in the 70's and possibly the 80's if the Vice President of the US had told a congressman to "go fuck yourself" on the house floor the country would have been appalled. Slowly but surely bad behavior has become more and more acceptable over the years. Now, we are reaping the benefits of that acceptance.

[Eric J in MN]

20. Hitting children isn't the answer. Teach compassion and sympathy. (nt)

nt

[yardwork]

25. Your mother would have knocked out your teeth?

That's terrible.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

28. No

My mother wouldn't have actually knocked out my teeth. However, my parents instilled in me and my siblings a healty respect for the consequences to come if we were disrespectful or knowingly did wrong. And I also did not state in any way that hitting children was the answer. What I am suggesting is that if our society as a whole still believed in personal responsibility and were raising our children to also have that same sense of responsibility then maybe just maybe we would not be in the deep shit mess we are now.

note: Not everyone fits into this category. However, the pool of people who do is becoming larger and larger.

[Crunchy Frog]

31. Yes, it's really too bad that Dick Cheney

grew up in the era of extreme parental permissiveness isn't it? I'm sure that if he had been suitably smacked around as a child, he would be a shining beacon of decency.

Thanks for clearing up what the real problem is.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

33. Your condescending response

is nothing more than that. This administration has taught you well. It shows! Offer a solution. What prey tell do you believe are the problems with society today? Do you have a point to make or are you just on a high horse spouting words but not really saying anything?

[Crunchy Frog]

37. No, my response

was a result of my own parents not smacking me around to a sufficient degree. I'm sorry if I offended you, I just can't help it. I blame our overly permissive society.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

65. OK

You're parents didn't smack you around. Great! I am assuming that you read my post on how personal responsibility has become a thing of the past. And you, like a few others, have taken my comment about my mother knocking my teeth out, which was not meant to be taken literally but I guess I need to point that out because it appears that people want to grab on to the words and not the point and run with them. I will state this as clearly as I can. I do NOT in any form or fashion recommend we all start beating our children to make things right. With that said, I will say that I have no clue what kind of parenting Cheney had. However, I am left with the results of what he is as an adult. And, you yourself made my very point (which I am not sure why you felt the need to go off on a rant) society has become very permissive and the levels of "acceptable behavior" has gotten completely out of hand.

note- I do hold firm to the belief that Cheney, as an adult, should be smacked on a daily basis!

[unfrigginreal]

15. ...on the Supreme Court.

[K-W]

36. This isnt majority rule at all, this is minority rule.

Gore won the popular vote in 2000, and most people dont vote. Bush is not supported by the majority, he is tolerated by the majority.

He is supported by a minority of the country.

[Eric J in MN]

18. There are few photos of what bombs do to people displayed on tv

or major newspapers.

If they showed the real consequences of "Shock and Awe" and recent bombings of Fallujah on tv, like the website below does, people would be demanding Bush's resignation.

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

[Hippo_Tron]

58. Doubt it...

Many believe Bush's lies so much that they would just say "Better them than us."

[BlueJazz]

19. I agree with those that state....

"I won't be friends with a Bush supporter"
I used to be a lot more accepting in regards to other folk's views but
after seeing the tremendous damage the republicans are doing to this country, I have absolutely no use for people who insist on supporting this Monster.

The strange part are the newest ads for Bush...with Bush talking about
bringing in jobs, health care, training, better schools...blah, blah, blah

I'd like to ask his supporter (well, scream at them).
How is Bush going to fulfill all these promises? WE'RE FUCKING BROKE...OUR CREDIT CARDS ARE MAXED OUT...WE"RE TOO BUSY SQANDERING OUR DOUGH IN EVERY PLACE ELSE EXCEPT AMERICA... IDIOTS.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

26. These are the very

same things he promised in 2000. My question to Bush supporters would be/is, Wern't these the same things he promised 4 years ago? Fool me once.........Uhhhh fool me twice.... can't get fooled again.

[LisaL]

21. Yep, sad but true.

But then Bush does his best to brainwash them.

[pinto]

27. thankfully, the majority of voters in the US are Democrats.

Mobilize and turn out the vote remains a tried and true Democratic win.

[Eric J in MN]

52. The Democrats are the plurality. 29% Republicans, 37% Democrats (nt)

nt

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

32. All related to falling educational standards & uncritical thinking

The American (slight) majority are a bunch of uncritical dumbasses, who are given to following fascists and religious zealots. The left-side of the IQ curve has always been inhabited by Repukes and fundies. Unfortunately, that IQ curve has been positively skewed for many years now and is getting worse.

Call me liberal elitist, please! It means I have a brain and tend to think for myself. Nothing to be ashamed of there...

JB

[Blue Wally]

38. Would you then propose.......

that we return to a literacy test for voting?? Maybe a multiplr choice test equivalent to a high school civics examination. You take the test in the summer of each presidential election year. Pass and you vote for four years, fail and you are disqualified for four years. Who would that harm the most, Democrats or Republicans??

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

53. No. I'd be more broad and long-term in focusing on the problem.

I'd toughen up educational standards at ALL levels and would infuse the educational system with a large chunk of the domestic budget. Headstart programs would be beefed-up and more money would be put into early childhood health and parental education.

Sadly, in America a good education can only be found by those who can afford it.

JB

[Hippo_Tron]

59. Personally I'd rather a liberal elitist than a Christain fundie president

Many in the chimp administration want to govern this country like medieval Europe.

[kodi]

40. da, comrade, we are the vanguard of the revolution!

:thumbsdown:

[manic expression]

45. I completely agree

with everything you said. People need to wake up.

[Ramsey]

54. 100,000 Million people

Registered voters did not vote in 2000. I was taught that it was my obligation as a citizen of this participatory democracy to vote. My dad always said, "If you don't vote, you have no right to compalin." What the hell is wrong with 50% of people in this country that they just don't bother to vote??

[Blue Wally]

61. Looks like.......

another product of the education system. 100,000 million would equal 100 billion.

[bvar22]

66. Don't totally blame the lazy voter.

The inherently corrupt 2 Party system that produces a limited secession of pasty faced, centrist, pro Big Business candidates that have long ago lost their connection to the majority of people who work for a living can shoulder a bunch of the blame.

If the voters stay home, it is because the Party has failed to inspire them to participate in the system!

[donkeyotay]

60. America is the problem

I've been struggling with this, too. Up until now I have told myself that it's just ignorance. If people knew, they'd vote these bastards out. But I've come to think ignorance isn't adequate; the word I want is brainwashed. The American people have been brainwashed. But it couldn't have been accomplished without the characteristics of the conservative personality being abundant. See sffreeways most excellent post at #50.

Anyway, I'm starting to feel like a co-dependent, making excuses for my fellow citizens. I also "feel lost" in my own country. It helps to come here.

[leesa]

63. Agree. Americans are simply greedy assholes.

[Redleg]

75. Nice stereotyping. We liberals are supposed to be better than that.

Are you trying to get flamed?

[cidliz2004]

64. No, it is the MEDIA that is the problem

The media is controlling the information and downplaying events, misrepresenting facts and out and out lying!

The media is the one that hasn't addressed all of Bush's failings since day one...Hell, they didn't even cover the 2000 election with any accuracy nor did they follow up on the election and conclusively address the final vote counts. Nor did they accurately cover the inaguration of GW. How many of us even knew that eggs were thrown at the Limo on the way to the inauguration? How many of us knew that there were 10s of thousands of protestors in Washington??? How many of us knew every slimey detail of Clinton's extra marital affair with Monica? How did we know and not know of these things? THE MEDIA - - Who played "the scream" over and over and over again? Who played "the scream" without the backround noise so that it appeared as though Howard Dean was screaming to a silent crowd?
Who gave us a virtual blackout of Wes Clark while he was running in the primaries????? Who has given 43 a pass on some really tough questions and doesn't report on the REAL state of this country?

The media is the "other political party" the media is the STRONGEST POLITICAL PARTY. The American Majority are just brainwashed.

Whoever controls the flow of information in this country controls the country.

[donkeyotay]

67. I agree the media has misinformed and brainwashed America

But at some point does it become a case of being willfully blind?

I'll bet every person on this board could recount a story of how painful it has been to come to grips with some of the truths that are discussed here. The American people are now ignoring incontrovertible evidence, oh say, that bush lied for war. People are dying because he was either a fraud or an incompetent, and middle America turns away and says, "that doesn't matter, because I hate liberals."

There's a line from a Bob Dylan song that asks "How many times can a man turn his head, and pretend that he just doesn't see?"

I think I'm at the point that if America returns this awful disaster of a coup to power, I'm through making excuses for them. Now, I still don't think that's going to happen. I still think Kerry is going to win, but it's so close that I'm afraid enough to start preparing myself to accept that it's possible that... you know.

[cidliz2004]

69. You have a lot of valid points BUT

when you look at the overwhelming influence that the media has on the public at large and the fact that most people don't live and breathe the news and the out and out lies that are given in response to some of the tough questions - well that is how people are so uninformed and basically brainwashed.

I go crazy when I hear the lies from the NEWS themselves. They ask a question that they have the answer to but they ask the question anyway giving some idiot a platform on which to spew lies. The Howard Dean scream was a perfect example. Most people knew of the scream from the thousands of times that the news stations played it, not from the actual event. Then after playing the scream they gave the "opposing" side all the air time in the world to talk about Dean's meltdown??!! They purposely mislead the American people and let the "other side" basically slander Dean. It was dishonest, incitful and criminal. The Swift Boat Vet bull was another example, how many states did that actually air in????? Yet it was on all of the news shows day in and day out. So the whole country was explosed to the slime and the liars were given platform after platform to spew their lies. The American people don't analyze everything. They listen to the liars and accept what sounds the most plausible to them. They, what, watch 5 minutes - 30 minutes of news?????? Some of that being sports coverage, the weather.... They "trust" most of what they watch as factual. They pretty much want to believe that what they are being told about their leaders are truthful pieces of information.

Michael Moore's movie "Bowling for Coumbine" really brought this point home with the comparison's to our country's news shows and Canadian News. Our news programs (among many other things) keeps us in a total state of fear. Like now with the terrorism, alerts and rising cost of living and lower wages and job outsourcing.... How much fear is pumped into us on a daily basis??? How do we react???? We are brainwashed pure and simple. The news shows are what we turn to for information and all we get is trained to think and act according to whoever is pulling the strings.

When you make the attempt to be informed and you watch the news.....well doesn't it make sense that getting fed tiny bits and pieces of arsenic over a long period of time will make you sick, but not kill you?

[Professor_Moriarty]

70. I think Bush and his handlers have not merely made an AWOl

look like a strong military leader, but have managed to define our side as the BLAME AMERICA FIRSTERS( A Jeanne Kirkpatrick Contribution). The events of 9/11 have created this myth of America as a vulnerable giant being picked on by a billion, bloodthirsty Arabs and Muslims.Bush is presenting himself as our savior, uncompromising and steadfast against our evil enemies.That, combined with the imagery of a holy war against our religiously indoctrinated enemies is what is driving his popularity.We need to quickly come up witha story that debunks this myth at its roots.

[Redleg]

74. Which majority has supported Bush? Gore received more votes

in 2000.

[JCMach1]

80. The majority doesn't even bother to vote

:(