Is Anyone Concerned That Korea Has Detonated an A-Bomb?

[ThomWV]

News reports are saying a 2-mile high mushroom cloud and a crater that is clearly visible from space. Seismographs all around the globe recorded the shock and still the Bush administration says it wasn't the big one? What in hell is going on here?

[still_one]

1. The question is did they detect radiation?

A mushroom cloud is not what makes it nuclear

[ThomWV]

8. OK - Then Tell Me This

What sort of conventional explosive, or more correctly how much conventinoal explosive would it take to come up with a 2-mile cloud? Somehow I kind of have to wonder why someone would shoot off a train-load of conventional explosives unless they were building a dam or something. No one is talking about anything like that having happened.

[Warpy]

13. There's a hint that it was a munitions factory

There's another that it was a medium-range missile installation.

This is one of those stories we're just going to have to give the 72 hour test to. If Japan and Canada start cautioning pregnant and nursing mothers to avoid dairy products, we'll know there's been an Sr90 increase, and that it was likely a nuclear explosion. If not, then one of the other catastrophes is more certain.

I think it unlikely that they would test a nuke so close to a rail line, personally. We'll just have to wait and see.

[AndyTiedye]

32. Close to the Rail Line? Where Was "Dear Leader"'s Train at the Time?

Could it have been another assassination attempt?

[BrotherBuzz]

15. A MOAB clone?

[ezekiel333]

31. Could be...

<http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/11/sprj.irq.moab>

[JimmyHoffa]

35. I don't think we need to worry..

The Bomb or whatever it was exploded right on the border of China...close to where China has troops built up......China knows that little Bastard crazy and they have more to lose than anyone....there is little chance that it was nuclear....but you never know...there is no reason for us to stick our beak in when it is really Chinas problem and they are very capable of handling themselves..if hey request assistance then we should by all means help..

[lanparty]

58. LIttle chance????

According to who????

A two mile high mushroom cloud seems like a pretty serious explosion to me.

I do agree that China is the only one who can deal with this. If we invaded N Korea, it would be Korean War II. They would NOT tolerate American troops massed on their border, even to get rid of Lil' Kim.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

52. And it was a two-mile wide cloud because it was reported in the media?...

And they know that because...?

[jimshoes]

2. There will be tell-tale evidence downwind of the blast

in time. It won't remain secret for long.

[bryant69]

3. Didn't you get the memo

We're not supposed to pay any attention to the man behind the curtain. Concentrating on North Korea at this time would distract us from the real enemy - John Kerry.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[21winner]

11. thanks

that was real helpful.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

4. Haven't you heard? It was a forrest fire.

You know, the type that leaves a crater and 2.5 mile diameter mushroom cloud.

Happens all the time. Lots of sap in NK trees.

[crickets]

38. "Lots of sap in NK trees."

Coca-cola. Shooting out of my nostrils. Ow.

[Eric J in MN]

5. How do we stop North Korea from selling nuclear bombs to terrorists? nt

nt

[still_one]

10. uhhh, maybe we could have a dialog? duh!!!

[21winner]

14. out bid them.

can you dig it?

[gulfcoastliberal]

36. You are so right!

If the gov't was serious about the "war on drugs" they'd simply outbid the cartels, paying the peasant farmers more for heir crops than the drug syndicates. But of course, we all know how profitable the black market and judicial-prison industrial complex really is.

[Nordic]

16. uh ... I think they got the technology from Pakistan, our "ally"

Yes, our ally in the war on terror has been selling nuclear bombs and its technology around the world.

Nice, huh?

Pakistan has done everything that Saddam was ACCUSED of, yet they're our "friend?"

[Vickers]

6. Wait...do they have oil?

Seriously.

Regards,

Tricky Dick Cheney

[Career Prole]

7. Powell said it might have been maintenance.

I thought to myself, "Maintenance?! Man, those guys are some sweepin' sons o' bitches!" :wow:

[markus]

24. Sort of like discharging your boat's flares on July 4th when they expire?

eom

[Soft Georgia]

9. I am.

I worry too much and probably should wait for verified reports of radiation. But yes, I worry about this.

Upon first hearing the news last night, my knee-jerk reaction was that the Bush administration had invaded another sovereignty without provocation. I'm not sure his puppeteers are that stupid -- they're a pretty smart bunch. Evil, determined warmongers, but smart.

Now I imagine it's more likely that if this was a nuclear detonation it was a NK weapons test. That, too, frightens me. A lot. I don't want NK to be flaunting nukes at Bush, because of how I predict he would react. :scared:

But as I say, I think I'd do better to wait for proof.

[yardwork]

18. No need to worry about radiation until we hear about it

While I certainly don't trust the United States, China, Russia, or either side of Korea to tell the truth, other countries will start to pick up radioactive isotopes if they exist, and they'll warn their citizens.

[LunaC]

12. NK considers Bush* to be "a political imbecile......"

"..... bereft of even elementary morality. Bush is a tyrant that puts Hitler into the shade."

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1184174.htm


It wouldn't surprise me if they did something to make him look even more foolish.

[barb162]

33. they're right on about Bush

but that guy who runs NK is not any better.

[LunaC]

48. Problem is

Bush* seems to be taunting NK, daring Kim Jong Il to do something. What better way to justify an attack than saying "But THEY started it, Mom!"

[barb162]

49. yeah, I know, Bush and the NK leader aren't exactly adult

two bullies

[bleedingheart]

17. yup..

just kind of feeling helpless because if it is verified that is just terrifying in the extreme.

[Beetwasher]

19. HUGE Cover UP Going On

This is fucking out of control...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/12/international/asia/12nuke.html?ex=1252641600&en=eee560fa911b4dcf&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

[jimshoes]

29. Interesting that 2 days ago

the * admin were concerned that NK was going to test an A-bomb then oddly enough, there is a massive explosion leaving a mushroom cloud and a really really big crater, and they are not sure of what just happened. Very interesting Colin, but WTF are you on? Below from the NY Times.



WASHINGTON, Sept. 11 - President Bush and his top advisers have received intelligence reports in recent days describing a confusing series of actions by North Korea that some experts believe could indicate the country is preparing to conduct its first test explosion of a nuclear weapon, according to senior officials with access to the intelligence.

[allemand]

20. No, because they didn't. n/t

[Beetwasher]

21. Yeah, OK, You're Right!

I believe everything Colin Powell says! :eyes:

[allemand]

23. How about checking the information gathered in this thread

before jumping to conclusions...? :-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=820668&mesg_id=820668

[Beetwasher]

26. Which Info?

I read it and there's nothing there that would convince me...

I'll wait for more info from some sources indpendent of the US. Unfortunately, anything coming from the US is suspect in a matter like this. That's just the way it is nowadays...

[allemand]

30. This information

Chosun Ilbo is a South Korean newspaper:

"A high-ranking government official said Sunday, “It is true that a large mushroom cloud about 3.5 to 4 km in diameter was observed by a satellite at around 11:00 a.m. Thursday. It was not a nuclear test, but the explosion seemed to be three times bigger than the one that took place during the Ryongchon Station accident,” and added, “Both U.S. and Korean intelligence authorities are investigating what caused the explosion.”

<...>

The accident took place in a mountainous region 1,500 meter above sea level around Yongjo-ri, where it is known that there were many munitions factories nearby. In particular, the exact spot of explosion is only 10km away southwest from the Yongjo-ri base for Rodong 1 and 2 missiles and some 30km away from the Sino-Korean border.

There is much talk about the cause of the explosion. The government official said, “If a nuclear test causes an explosion, we can detect it by reading satellite data. Thus, the recent explosion in North Korea was not caused by a nuclear test.” The intelligence authorities assume that an ammunition depot with over 1,000 tons of dynamite or an ammunition car may have exploded, or there may have been a chain explosion of chemical material or a big fire. Some Chinese sources argue that a massive explosion took pace in a munitions factory. Hong Sun-jik, director at the Hyundai Economic Institute said, “Other than the assumption that it may be a simple accident that took place due to old facilities, we cannot exclude the possibility that the explosion may have taken place due to the lack of control of the Kim Jong-il regime, or it may have been connected to a secret feud over the successor of Kim Jong-il following the rumor of death of Kim’s wife, Ko Young-hee.”"

More:
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200409/2004...



The picture shows the near areas North Korea's Youngjo-ri, Ryanggang Province which was taken by the satellite of the U. S. firm DigitalGlobe in February 2003. The area in the circle is Youngjo-ri and the squared area is 10km to the southwest, where the explosion may have taken place. The dotted line is the railroads of Youngjo-ri and thick line is the boundary line of Ryanggang Province and Jagang Province.
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200409/200409120031.html

They would not blow up their own railway line in a nuclear test, would they?

Also the blast happened on Thursday. Nuclear fallout would already have reached South Korea and Japan, and both countries are able to detect it. Their governments would be toppled immediately if they withheld such information from the public.

The blast happened very close to the Chinese border. People in that region would have seen the flash of a nuclear blast that is characteristic of such an explosion, in contrast to other types of explosions.
 

[Beetwasher]

37. I'm Not Convinced

I'll wait on this one and see if there are any reports regarding radiation and seismic activity from other independent sources (Non US, Non NK).

Neither the US or NK sources can be trusted on this.

Honestly, I don't know WHAT to think. Maybe it wasn't a nuke, but it sure is suspicious as hell considering the NYT article that just ran AND the highly significant date (Big State Holiday for which Kim is known for his displays).

[allemand]

43. Chosun Ilbo is a South Korean newspaper, not from "NK"

I agree with you that the date of the explosion is highly suspicious. There is also a lot of speculation about a possible power struggle in the article that I quoted.

I also think that the North Koreans might be able to test a nuclear bomb, but I doubt that they would conduct the test like that, in the open, destroying their railway line and risking the contamination of their own country.

[Beetwasher]

47. Yeah

There's just too many questions to accept the official explanations at face value. My final judgement is withheld until I see more data.

[Ediacara]

22. They didn't detonate one

The USGS says there has been no seismic activity in Korea over M2.5 in the last week, so it rules out a nuclear bomb.




ALTHOUGH, something REALLY FUCKING BIG did blow up, it wasn't a nuke.... nor was it a forest fire...

[ItsThePeopleStupid]

46. map

http://www.iris.edu/seismon/

[Ediacara]

70. With a close up of Korea and Japan and China

[sundog]

25. "Forest fire" wtf??????

[cheezus]

27. well, they claim it wasn't a nuke

but who knows. anyway, it's not like we didn't already know they have em

[JimmyHoffa]

28. C hina needs to step up

[barb162]

34. supposedly they did not if you believe Powell

but in any case China can sit on NK

[ItsThePeopleStupid]

39. Can anyone read these seismographs?

It's the wrong time and place for the N. Korea explosion, but it looks like something really big set off the seismographs a little before 22:00 GMT yesterday, especially in Antarctica. I can't read the magnitude but it's off the scale.

http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.shtml

[Seeker30]

40. You can't blame N Korea

When you have Bush placing them in his 'axis of evil' list can you blame them for wanting to defend themselves?

[JimmyHoffa]

41. The leader of NK is crazy

That much everyone can agree on. We have no business attacking them at this point though. China has to deal with them. If they are exploding Nukes on the border of China you can feel assured China will act. This topic is getting a little far-fetched in my opinion.

[VOX]

57. "Far-fetched?"

Just why is this China's problem? If NK **is** playing with nukes, it's everyone's problem.

[gulliver]

61. I can blame Bush for f*cking with a crazy guy. Then the crazy guy ...

... goes nuts and Mr. Shoot-off-his-mouth Bush can't do anything. You don't threaten another country unless you can back it up. Bush is an asshole. He threatened North Korea for no better reason than to have a memorable phrase in his state of the union ("axis of evil"). Nice going you little shit!

[TankLV]

42. Isn't this close to labor day?

It's probably just a barbecue gone horrible wrong.

Too much lighter fluid from an over ambitious dad!

Got to get those charcoal briquettes nice and hot!

[Jim__]

44. Nahhhh - Saddam's gone - the world's much safer - n/t

[greekspeak]

45. But Condi says it was a forest fire.

And Powell denies it too. What I find strange about this is that if a nuke did go off, I think they would have launched a full out, balls out assault on Korea, the world be damned.

[peekaloo]

53. but they are cowards. Only attack countries without arsenals.

but their denial scares me.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

50. If it was really a nuke, the world press would have reported it as such...

...because we're not the only one capable of detecting radiation:

List of countries with nuclear weapons
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_nuclear_weapons>


If you're going to fall for a bogus story, try falling for one with a lot more substance than this one.

[T Town Jake]

51. Wow...I've been out and about enjoying a beautiful...

...Sunday afternoon, no TV or news, hadn't heard this! What in the world is going on?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. The sky is falling! Haven't you heard??

[T Town Jake]

55. You're right, I should have read through the thread...

...before posting. Thanks for the link in your previous reply - I think you're right,BTW.

[Bo]

56. Bring It On- NOT

[gatorboy]

59. Repugs are sticking their head in the sand.

Conservatives I know have been trying to downplay this all day. They know deep down what a coward Bush is. I've been hearing the forest fire excuse but the last I checked, forest fires don't leave craters that can be seen from space.
Not to mention it was blasted on an important anniversary of the communist regime. And they like nothing better then to display their strength during these things...

[Cleita]

60. I f they say it isn't a nuke, or a big one, then it must be true.

Will anyone be able to post the truth, at least on the internet? When Bush shoved No. Korea into the "Axis of Evil" along with Iraq and Iran, I cringed. Our former administrations have walked on little cat's paws with No. Korea's crazy fhurer. But now it seems "Little Boots" is unleashing all the horses of Hell to start something so devastating that I can't believe dumbass blondes (known as soccer moms) are going to vote for our new Caligula to be safe.

[gatorboy]

62. What worries me more

is that Bush will escalate this, and God forbid, there is a nuclear strike, Bush and Co. will sit safe and snug in their bunkers while Anerica is incinerated. How does it make you feel that Bush will be in a bunker when the shit hits the fan for everyone else?

[Cleita]

64. Even the bunker isn't going to save them.

Think about it. If everything else is contaminated with radiation, and the world is pretty much dead, how long are they going to survive with limited rations?

[gatorboy]

66. That's possibly true.

But they're probably making the necessary provisions as we speak, and I think it's a good chance he would survive as long as their underground dwelling didn't take a direct hit.

[Cleita]

68. I don't think they can provision themselves for

50,000 or more years, which is the estimate for radiation to dissipate. Figures are off the top of my head right now because it's too late at night to look stuff up.

[Zorra]

63. I'm concerned that the neocons may have nuked N. Korea. Did Bu$h

press the evil red button?

[Cleita]

65. Very scary to think that.

How can we find out? Surely the Asian internet will have news eventually.

[LaPera]

67. So as Bush announced, he's is pulling troops frm S. Korea, an excuse to

"drop the big one now"??? That'll show the world we mean business and NOT to fuck with the fascist corporate take over.

What sickness, and we are along for the ride. (No choice?)

We must vote the fascist out, (but these fascist won't accept it and just go away peacefully). We know this, they are going to steal the election again, and put us right in the middle of it all.

[Hanover_Fist]

69. This will probably sound really stupid

but since I am not a scientist, can anyone tell me exactly what the day and time this occured? I live in Washington state but work in Portland Oregon, and on saturday about 9:30 or 10:00(I'm not sure)we had
an event that literally shook the walls. Many of us at the plant ran outside because we thought we were getting "hit". After looking around and realizing that Portland wasn't in flames we went back inside and went about our business, but this has been bothering me since it occured. Please clue a brother in!

[troublemaker]

71. You couldn't feel a Korean nuke test in Portland (if there was a test)

Probably something local

[fujiyama]

72. When I first heard of this

the headline was "NK has the bomb" and it said it was a nuke and it was very concerning at first (made my jaw drop a bit because a test confirms that you DEFINETELY have a nuke), but after reading several other reports it seemed very unlikely that it was a nuke test. Though when I first read it, I thought it was strange that it wasn't all over the media (both national and international) because it would be big news.

I'm not ruling it out (especially after the NYT article that mentioned that they were considering testing a nuke soon) but I don't think it was a nuke. If it was, foreign governments and the international media (which is probably more trustworthy than any thing at home) would have confirmed it by now. By now, it would be obvious if there was any radiation and the prevailing winds would also indicate what happened.

It may have been a precurson to a nuclear explosion though. I wouldn't be surprised if they are planning a test soon. I recall that when the US first tested a nuke at the Trinity test site in the Los Alamos desert, they first set off a conventional weapons test on TNT. But satellites would also clearly pick up any preperation by the North Koreans as this place has a lot of attention focused on it. This was not the case when India tested their nuke in '98. Images showed preperations six hours before but those in the intel community were not heavily focused on it. Also, India was able to time the passing of American spy satellites so that it wouldn't be all picked up.