scariest quote I've ever read on DU

[Nordic]

"History tells us that the rise of militant fascism in Germany during the 1930s did not draw worried notice from European news outlets - radio and newspapers - because those media entities were owned by chemical and steel interests that were reaping the profits from Germany's explosive military buildup. Only when it was too late did the alarm bell begin to sound. This we call a conflict of interest, and a damned deadly one."

From "The Greatest Sedition is Silence," by William Rivers Pitt, page 122.

this was originally posted by Senior Citizen in another thread.

I think it deserves its own thread. I, for one, would like to hear more about this, and would like this to be more of a story.

I believe this is the biggest danger to the world today.

Anybody have any more info about this? It's new to me (I'm not a big history student, but I like to know as much as possible).

I find it fascinating that while the republicans use history to ape the fascist agenda, they also seem evilly ignorant of it.

They seem to forget that things didn't go very well for HItler, Mussolini, or Marie Antionette.

[Nordic]

1. whew! The flurry of responses is dazzling!

Guess I'll check back later. :)

[BlackVelvetElvis]

2. When you check back in...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2358731&mesg_id=2358731

Take a look at this thread. Watch the video and see some scary parallels.

[annabanana]

3. All we can do is agree........................n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. Most probably don't believe that could ever happen to this Country

Being aware of the above quote, how many people would recognize the parallels between 1930's Germany and present day America? . And isn't the media "librul" anyway? :eyes:

[Dems Will Win]

5. Here's the proof we are in 1935 or 1936 Germany, hang this everywhere!

PRINT THE PDF: http://somnamblst.tripod.com/draftalert.pdf
HANG THIS FLYER EVERYWHERE

This is a SPECIAL MILITARY DRAFT ALERT. THIS IS NOT THE RANGEL DRAFT BILL, THIS IS NEW! THIS IS BUSH QUIETLY READYING THE COMBAT DRAFT AND HAVING THE SELECTIVE SERVICE CREATE A NEW DRAFT FOR 2005.

In May, the Seattle Post Intelligencer published an article about a document they received through the Freedom of Information Act. It was revealed that the SSS is currently “designing procedures” for the implementation of a “Skills Draft” after holding a top-level meeting on it with Deputy Undersecretaries at the Defense Department. The top-level This draft would change the very mission of the Selective Service and require “virtually every young American”, male and female ages 18-34, to register for the Skills Draft and list all the occupations they are proficient in to fill labor shortages throughout nearly the entire government.

Here, for the first time, is the FOI document itself:

http://blatanttruth.org/selective_service091304.pdf

This document is real, having been acknowledged by the DoD and the SSS when they said no action is being taken on it at the present time, as reported:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/171522_draft01.html

Although Congress would have to approve new legislation to create a Skills Draft or reinstate the combat draft, Family Circle reported in its July 13 issue that Karl Rove has polled GOP members of Congress in September 2002 to see if they would support the President if he requests reinstatement. The Republicans said they would vote for the draft.

In addition, the SSS itself has said that it is “designing procedures” (Seattle PI, May 1, 2004) to implement the skills draft, meaning designing the compliance cards and the data fields needed to keep track of “virtually every young American” and their skills. Acting Director of the SSS Brodsky has also said the Skills Draft is the “top priority” of the Selective Service for 2004. The Issue Paper options include:

- Allow a non-combat draft for shortages in critical skills, without calling a combat draft.

- Fill labor shortages of all kinds throughout not only DoD but the Dept. of Homeland Security and other agencies, especially high-paying professionals like computer networking specialist or linguist.

- Create a single-point, all-inclusive database, in which every young person would be forced to send in a “self-declaration” of all of their critical skills, chosen from a long list of occupations like the Armed Forces Specialty Code. The usual penalties of imprisonment and/or a $250,000 fine would apply to all non-registrants.

In the secret planning meeting document, the next steps strongly recommended by SSS Acting Director Brodsky were:

1. “Promptly” redefine the SSS Mission to draft men and women up to age 34 for skills, and deliver them within 90 days or sooner to the Department of Defense. Program a massive database to be ready to enter millions of names of those registering their critical skills.

2. Expand mission to deliver personnel in skills draft to the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies, including FEMA, NSC, Border Patrol, INS, Customs, Corporation for National Service, Public Health Service and other agencies.

3. Form interagency task force to provide Administration with recommendation on this skills draft for the entire government.

4. Obtain White House Statement of Administration Policy on the future of the SSS.

5. Be prepared to market the skills draft, raising the non-combat age to 34 and the drafting of women to the Armed Services and Appropriations Committee.

In contrast to this planning and preparation to create a targeted draft, Kerry plans to spend an additional $7 billion to strengthen the Volunteer Army in what is essentially a “No-Draft Plan”. Moreover, Kerry is strongly opposed to the neo-con plan revealed in Wes Clark’s book Winning Modern Wars, in which Clark was told by a senior Pentagon official that invasions of Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Sudan and Somalia were planned and still to come over the next three years.

DON'T FORGET TO USE THE .PDF NOT THE .GIF FILE.

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05

KERRY '04 = PNAC OUT THE DOOR!

[Nordic]

7. well that's exactly it. I recently read an article that I tried to find

online but couldn't.

It was written by an Argentinian who said the same thing -- "we never thought it could happen here" and it was a warning to America.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. It's almost too scary

to talk about. I'm not surprised to see few responses.

[Nordic]

8. yeah I was hoping for more info about how it came about

in Germany. I guess I could look it up myself but thought maybe some history-buff DUers could help steer things.

How did the German corporate media get that way?

Was it deliberate from the get-go, or did it start as a more innocent business decision and then turn into a self-serving propaganda machine?

What happened to media outlets that didn't play along?

etc. etc. etc.

[Eloriel]

12. How it came about --

This is one of the best things I've ever read to explain it, an excerpt from a book by Milton Meyer:
http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

snip

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, "regretted," that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic German" could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice - "Resist the beginnings" and "consider the end." But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have changed here before they went as far as they did; they didn't, but they might have. And everyone counts on that might.

snip

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to "go out of your way to make trouble." Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, "everyone is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there will be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to you colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, "It's not so bad" or "You're seeing things" or "You're an alarmist."

-- much more at link, every single word worth reading --

We have the gift THIS time of Germany's history, as a roadmap and unfortunately it's been so far quite an accurate one. Alas, there is no "roadmap" about how to stop the progression effectively, or a more positive denouement than the forceful outside intervention Hitler finally provoked.

I have many other links I'll post separately.

[Seabiscuit]

14. People on DU are already way ahead of Europe

in the 1930's. We've seen this coming for years. The corn has already grown over our heads. We've been slapped in the face so many times with neo-con arrogance over the past 4 years, no one paying any attention could imagine they're just now getting their wake-up call.

[dolo amber]

52. Not just the past 4 years

This shit has been building since Reagan.

[Nordic]

21. WOW. "Resist the beginnings" and "consider the end."

what an amazing article. Thanks.

To me, that's what DU is, we are like the people who show up in Close Encounters, the people who know the official story is bullshit.

It all started with a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach when Bushco didn't finish the job in Afghanistan and started talking about "Iraq".

It just got worse from there.

[LibertyorDeath]

30. Eloriel thank you for posting this.

[laylah]

37. Oh my!

Thank you for posting this link, Eloriel. I have passed it on far and wide. Chillingly familiar :scared:

Jenn

[Cleita]

9. Do yourself a favor and read

"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William Shirer. It's a long book but it's probably the best history of Nazi Germany out there.

[lastliberalintexas]

13. Also It Can't Happen Here and

Berlin Diary

[David Zephyr]

22. Powerful Book.

Shook me up so much I was in a funk for months after reading it when I was younger. It should be mandatory reading.

[Bosso 63]

33. It hits close to home

I was reading it last winter, and found that it kept me up at night. The parallels are to scary.

[pinto]

10. the famous quote from Eisenhower:

"In the counsels of Government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes."
-- Dwight Eisenhower

[Zorra]

11. How should I put this?

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.

This pretty well sums it up.

[jpgray]

15. Plenty spoke out against Hitler, and many newspapers did

In the late twenties and thirties, however, the Left was extremely fractured and with good reason (better than ours has) hated each other's guts. Two prominent KPD (communist) leaders had been murdered by a SPD(social democrat) defense minister, and moreover when the SPD had control of the gov't, they participated in some violent crackdowns spawned by crushing unemployment that made virtually the whole population of Germany somewhat revolutionary.

So Thalmann who was the prominent leader of the KPD, under the leadership of Comintern/Moscow, put forth the idea that the SPD was basically 'social fascism' and acted against them as the chief enemy of leftist progress. He accused some of failing to see the 'Social Democratic forest for the National Socialist Trees', and his slogan was 'first Hitler, then our turn'. His idea was that the Nazis were so ridiculously corrupt and had such abhorrent policies that they would mobilize the electorate for the Communists. This, of course, turned out to be nonsense. But please note Thalmann had a much better case against the SPD than Nader for example has against the Democrats, and the SPD participated in some brutal reaction, so there aren't really any white or black hats to hand out between the two.

[Eloriel]

16. Links

(And one of these days I really DO have to get them ALL put together and organized, because these are just a few of what I've got.)

COMPARISONS and WARNINGS
Fascism Anyone? by Laurence W. Britt
http://secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History by Thom Hartmann
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm

The NASCAR Nazi
Bush is creating an un-American America
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/04/38/lost-washburn.php

It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread (Aug. 03)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853#199877

Nazification of America Phase 3
http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm

The Reichstag Fire and 9/11; Pretexts for Dictatorship and the Fourth Reich
Includes: Parallels between the Third Reich and the Bush Regime; 9/11 and the Reichstag Fire; What was the Reichstag Fire; Nazis in America; Poland 1939, Iraq 2003 http://www.oilempire.us/reichstag-fire.html

Bush's 9/11 Reichstag Fire by Harvey Wasserman
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0913-03.htm

20 Comparisons by Barrie Zwicker
http://www.deceptiondollar.com/news/BloorRemarks911-03.htm

The Bush Plan for America: The Rise of an American National Security State
By Jennifer Van Bergen, 14 December 2003 http://www.ftaaimc.org/en/2003/12/3232.shtml

Bush is *not* Hitler!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1868574

This is the Fight of Our Lives by Bill Moyers
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0616-09.htm

I'm crying
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1791526#1791609

I'm scared - I've got a mail, sounds real!!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1822699#1822720

What Is Fascism
(This one is quite good and incl. two-tiered legal system as well as many other hallmarks, and Dr. Lawrence Britt's list, and additional links)
http://www.couplescompany.com/FEATURES/Politics/Structure3.htm

Superpower Democracy (another must read)
http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/2003_07_01_gd.html#105880160504381723

America, We Have a Problem
http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i4dodd.htm

Fascism and America Today
by Aldo Vidali
http://www.apj.us/20010312fascism.html

===================================================
SYMBOLISM:
You know why Operation "Iron Hammer" sounds Nazi like?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=709776#710186

FASCISM
"fas-cism (fbsh'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm

The F Scale
(Measures one's authoritarian personality profile, which makes one receptive to fascism, based on research done after WW2)
http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm
link posted here: He's Acting Like Nixon in the Final DaysHas Bush Gone Over the Edge? (has some good links re fascist personality, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1725171

Fascism Anyone? by Laurence W. Britt
http://secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

Bethune Institute Anti-Fascist Studies
http://bethuneinstitute.org/index2.html

Umberto Eco on Fascism
http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html

What Is Fascism
(This one is quite good and incl. two-tiered legal system as well as many other hallmarks, and Dr. Lawrence Britt's list, and additional links)
http://www.couplescompany.com/FEATURES/Politics/Structure3.htm

Superpower Democracy (another must read)
http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/2003_07_01_gd.html#105880160504381723

IS AMERICA BECOMING FASCIST?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2159330
This article: IS AMERICA BECOMING FASCIST? http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/fascism.htm


LINK COLLECTIONS
Bush/Hitler Links
http://falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html

Covert Action - (History outline by dates - major!)
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/issue43/issue43_top.htm

=============================
nolabels (1000+ posts) Thu Aug-21-03 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853#199877
36. I feel a draft, throw a couple more logs on, would ya?
Are there other things you might have studied or read about?
How about some of these links
http://www.bilderberg.org/skulbone.htm
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/05/robbins.htm
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/ratlines.htm
http://www.media-criticism.com/CIA_Whiteout_1999.html
http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/history/vonBraun/Moving.html
The Phase III Report Of The U.S. Commission On National Security/21st Century
http://gnn.tv/dangerous /
The Nazi Hydra in Fascist America
http://www.john-loftus.com/Thyssen.asp#fortune
http://www.lpdallas.org/features/draheim/dr991216.htm
http://propagandamatrix.com/archivebushclan.html
http://www.madcowprod.com /

George Bush: An Unauthorized Biography
"The Rise of Hitler: The Reichstag Burns", The History Place: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/burns.htm


LINK COMPILATIONS AND RELATED
TARPLEY - Unauthorized Biography
http://www.tarpley.net
http://www.the7thfire.com/bush1.htm

Nazi Hydra in America
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/noon.html
(see also http://home.columbus.rr.com/lfairban/Pages/History.htm )

Nazi, GOP, big business, Bush Knots
http://www.sunmt.org/bushnazi.html

The Nests of Osama bin Laden
http://www.the-catbird-seat.net/BinLaden.htm

Bruce Campbell Adamson Website
(has a book available: JFK Assassination Timeline)
http://www.ciajfk.com/

Nazi Echo - Consortium News (archived articles)
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/nazi.html

History of 20th Century America
by Larry Fairbanks
Fascists in America
http://home.columbus.rr.com/lfairban/Pages/History.htm

=====================
LiberalFighter (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-08-04 12:31 AM
Response to Original message

21. Might want to try case sensitive file name
http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu.html

Use dejavu instead of DeJavu until 12
From 12 use DeJavu
http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu12.html
http://www.winterboy.com/DejaVu12.html

====================================
Democracy Unbound
(several articles, see also Encyclopedia)
http://democracyunbound.com/bfeebook.html


DU THREADS
Wanna know where today's Fascism came from? Look here 8/29/04
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2282969#2283235

Bush,Machiavelli,StraussIF NO EXTERNAL THREAT EXISTS ONE MUST BE INVENTED
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2255230

Fascism, Nazism, & Eugenics supported by Oil Barons of America &
esp. the Rockefeller Foundation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2248507

It's Time for Another Bush/Nazi Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853#199887
(most links already harvested)

1944: American fascism (re 1944 article)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=212387

Enough with the "_______ is worse than/ as bad as Hitler"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1730317

How Reagan Got Elected in the first place -- My little tribute
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1773894#1776990 (See Octafish post #33 for links to some books on Amazon)

Is U.S. REALLY like Germany in the 30's? (elementaryPenguin)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1772363#1772645
See also: Is US like Germany of the '30s? (Kayell)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1777406#1780958

Are we on the road to becoming Nazi's?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1784358#

Second Circuit Judge Tells It Like It Is: Bush Is Illegitimate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1833026
re this news story: http://daily.nysun.com/Repository/getmailfiles.asp?Style=OliveXLib:ArticleToMail&Type=text/html&Path=NYS/2004/06/21&ID=Ar00101

Comparing Bush to Hitler hurts our credibility
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1873137#1873330

The Fascism is getting harder to hide. And harder to fight.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=750446

"American fascists" among us
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2026031

Joe Stanton: "Bush's Operation Clean Sweep: World War IV in 2004?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=808293

Fascism?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1948137

Way, Way Past Time To Label BushCo As Nazis
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1966911#1967150

Is America Becoming Fascist?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2159330

===============================================

NOW, if that's not enough to convince fence-sitters on the subject, I don't know what is. :evilgrin:

[ezekiel333]

18. Excellent post, Thank You! eom

[AntiFascist]

20. Great post....

but why are there so many dead DU thread links?

[ezekiel333]

24. Some archives are temporarily down...

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=announcement&id=103>

[Eloriel]

17. A post copied from another thread // also comment on orig ques

ORIG QUESTION:
I think Tarpley's online book and/or the Nazi Hydra books both linked to in my previous post have info on how the industrialists (including, of course, Prescott Bush) supported Hitler. One of these tworks points out that Hitler paid Randolph Hearst to make sure Nazism was treated nicely in his newspapers. And there's an amazing 1944 article on the subject of fascism in America here:

1944: American fascism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=212387


COPIED FROM ANOTHER THREAD:

bvar22 (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-06-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1730317#1735181
161. This is not in "noahmijo's" name:

This floated through my in-box yesterday. I would argue with a couple, and elaborate on others. The ALL CAPS is a consequence of cut-n-paste, and not my transcription. This list was anonymous.

1. IN 1933 THE GERMAN GOVERNMENT RECEIVED WARNINGS OF AN IMMINENT ATTACK

2. THE WARNINGS WERE IGNORED

3. THE NATION'S LEADER WAS ILLEGITIMATE, ELECTED BY A MINORITY

4. HE WAS A SIMPLETON WHO SAW THINGS IN BLACK AND WHITE ONLY

5. HIS LANGUAGE WAS COARSE AND OFFENSIVE

6. AS A YOUNG MAN, HE JOINED A SECRET SOCIETY WHOSE RITUALS INCLUDED SKULL AND BONES

7. HE KNEW WHO THE TERRORIST WAS WHO WAS GOING TO STRIKE

8. HE STOOD ON THE RUBBLE OF THE BUILDING ATTACKED

9. HE DECLARED ALL-OUT WAR AGAINST EVIL

10. A DETENTION CENTER FOR TERRORISTS WAS SOON BUILT

11. LEGISLATION WAS ENACTED BANNING FREE SPEECH, PRIVACY AND HABEAS CORPUS

12. SUSPECTED TERRORISTS COULD BE IMPRISONED WITHOUT ACCESS TO LAWYERS

13. A PATRIOTIC "DECREE" WAS PASSED WITH A 4 YEAR SUNSET PROVISION

14. LEGISLATORS DID NOT HAVE TIME TO READ IT

15. SUSPICIOUS PERSONS WERE ARRESTED WITHOUT ACCESS TO LAWYERS OR THE COURTS

16. THOSE OBJECTING WERE IGNORED BY A MAINSTREAM PRESS

17. PROTESTING CITIZENS WERE FENCED OFF IN ZONES

18. THE COUNTRY WAS REFERRED TO AS THE "HOMELAND"

19. IT WAS OUR HOMELAND VS. ALL OTHERS

20. THE LEADER DECLARED THAT AN INTERNATIONAL BODY WHICH DID NOT ACT FIRST IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE NATION WAS IRRELEVANT

21. HE WITHDREW FROM THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS

22. HE CLAIMED HIS MOTIVATIONS WERE ROOTED IN CHRISTIANITY

23. HE FELT THAT THE VARIOUS AGENCIES WERE NOT COORDINATED TO DEAL WITH THE TERRORIST THREAT.

24. HE PROPOSED A SINGLE AGENCY TO PROTECT THE HOMELAND

25. HE APPOINTED ONE OF HIS TRUSTED ASSOCIATES TO LEAD THIS NEW AGENCY

26. THE RADIO AND PRESS WERE AT HIS DISPOSAL

27. PEOPLE WERE ENCOURAGED TO PHONE IN TIPS ABOUT SUSPICIOUS NEIGHBORS.

28. OPPOSITION LEADERS AND CELEBRITIES WHO SPOKE OUT WERE DENOUNCED

29. THE LEADER CONSOLIDATED HIS POWER AND BROUGHT CORPORATE LEADERS INTO HIGH GOVERNMENT POSITIONS

30. A FLOOD OF GOVERNEMT MONEY POURED INTO CORPORATE COFFERS

31. THE LEADER ENCOURAGED LARGE CORPORATIONS TO ACQUIRE MEDIA OUTLETS AND OTHER INDUSTRIAL CONCERNS ACROSS THE NATION, PARTICULARLY THOSE OWNED BY SUSPICIOUS PEOPLE OF MIDDLE EASTERN ANCESTRY

32. HE BUILT POWERFUL ALLIANCES WITH INDUSTRY

33. DISSENT AROSE WITHIN AND OUTSIDE THE GOVT. LEADERS OF OTHER NATIONS SPOKE OUT AGAINST HIS BELLICOSE RHETORIC

34. THE LEADER NEEDED A DIVERSION TO DIRECT PEOPLE AWAY FROM CORPORATE CRONYISM

35. HE BEGAN A CAMPAIGN TO MANIPULATE THE MEDIA TO HYPE A LIMITED WAR

36. A NATION WHICH HARBORED SUSPICIOUS PEOPLE AND HAD A TENUOUS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TERRORIST WHO HAD SET AFIRE THE NATIONS MOST IMPORTANT BUILDING, HAD THE RESOURCES HE NEEDED

37. THE LEADER PUBLICLY DELIVERED AN ULTIMATUM

38. HE CLAIMED THE RIGHT TO PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE IN SELF-DEFENSE

39. AFTER MILITARY ACTION BEGAN, THE BRITISH PM DECLARED THAT IT WOULD BRING PEACE IN OUR TIME.

40. THE LEADER DECLARED THAT THOSE HE CONQUERED LOVED HIM

41. THE PRESS BEGAN TO EQUATE HIS POLICIES WITH PATRIOTISM AND THE NATION ITSELF

42. THE MEDIA SAID NATIONAL UNITY WAS ESSENTIAL

43. THOSE QUESTIONING THE LEADER WERE CALLED TRAITORS

44. DISSENT WAS STIFLED AS INTELLECTUALS AND LIBERALS WERE THRASHED

45. VOICES OF OPPOSITION WERE RAISED AFTER THE LIMITED WAR

46. THE DAILY PROPAGANDA DID NOT TOTALLY SUPPRESS DISSENT

47. A FULL WAR WAS NECESSARY TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM GROWING OPPOSITION

48. ONE YEAR LATER, WORLD WAR II BEGAN

49. THE BLITZKRIEG OR LIGHTNING WAR "SHOCKED AND AWED" EUROPE

50. FASCISM IS DEFINED AS A "SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT THAT EXERCISES A DICTATORSHIP OF THE EXTREME RIGHT TYPICALLY THROUGH THE MERGING OF STATE AND BUSINESS LEADERSHIP, TOGETHER WITH BELLIGERENT NATIONALISM"

Sound familiar?

[Nordic]

23. nice!

If that's not an e-mail list, it should be.

If it isn't, I haven't received mine yet. :)

[toddaa]

19. Fascism as a means to an end much worse

None of this is new, my friends. Fascism has been creeping into American politics for a long time, going back to Nixon. Even the Clinton administration was responsible for laying some of the groundwork. What makes GW different from Hitler or Benny the Moose, however, is his status as a True Believer. America isn't on the brink of fascism so much as it's on the brink of theocratic dictatorship.

Frankly, if fascism was all we had to deal with, I'd sleep well at night. No, what we have is an administration dominated by people who are truly trying to fulfill Biblical prophecy. The average American wants peace, prosperity, and a healthy environment. Not these folks. They want THE EXACT OPPOSITE!!! Only by starting wars, wrecking global economic havoc, and trashing the environment can they fulfill their twisted apocalyptic goals. And they are doing it because they have enough true believers who are willing to use fascism as a means to take control. Once that happens, the fat cat capitalists who are in bed with these people will be in as deep a pile of crap as we are. Fascism is the least of our problems.

[Eloriel]

25. Uh, yes and .... sorta

Good post, and I don't mean to detract from it, but I do have some comments:

None of this is new, my friends. Fascism has been creeping into American politics for a long time, going back to Nixon.

No, back much farther than that. Not only did Prescott Bush, the Brown Brothers, Harrimans, Fords, Randolph Hearts, and others support Hitler and some of them helped finance him (Bush, Brown and Harriman in particular, while Hearst provided stateside pro-Hitler propaganda), but once the war was over the Dulles Brothers helped bring many, many Nazis into the U.S. as part of our brand new CIA. Operation Paperclip. Others were brought in as scientists (Werner von Braun) and perhaps other "specialties" as well. There was a nice "home" for some of them in the Republican party as part of the Heritage groups -- GHWB had to get some "former Nazis" off his payroll when he was campaigning for Prez the first time!

Even the Clinton administration was responsible for laying some of the groundwork.

Clinton's no favorite of mine, either, but I have no real quibble with this statement other than to say it would probably be helpful if you fleshed it out.

What makes GW different from Hitler or Benny the Moose, however, is his status as a True Believer. America isn't on the brink of fascism so much as it's on the brink of theocratic dictatorship.

Do NOT consider fascists in any way separate from the theocratic fundamentalists. They are one and the same, just a slightly different facet (and sometimes there's not even that distinction -- for example, did you know that Christian Reconstructionists have ties with the voting machine industry?).

There are those among Republican Party operatives whose main interest IS a theocracy, where Biblical Law will be the law of the land including stoning adulterers and homosexuals and even "juvenile delinquents" to death, etc. But these, IMO, are just useful tools for the neo-cons and other hard-core fascists. Oh, the neocons won't mind a theocracy at all, since they won't be affected, but theocracy is not their main goal.

The Neo-Cons (aka: Straussians, after their mentor Leo Strauss) are most certainly fascists. They hook up with the theocrats thusly: Part of the Straussian philosophy holds that those who have the capacity to govern are not only allowed to lie and mislead the governed, but can be obligated to do so, AND religion is a useful way to keep the masses compliant and "moral" -- tho "moral" means something more akin to compliant than how most DUers would define it. It's hard to imagine most of the Straussians thinking of themselves as part of any group that would be subject to any theocratic nonesense themselves -- just the masses.

Frankly, if fascism was all we had to deal with, I'd sleep well at night. No, what we have is an administration dominated by people who are truly trying to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

Uhh, an awful lot of the Neocons are NOT into Biblical Prophecy: they're Jews. It's hard for me to think of either Cheney or Rumsfeld as True Believers, and I am also not convinced that George W. Bush is himself a True Believer -- or if he is, he's a demented and delusional one, and ALSO a useful tool.

The Bushes are not neocons. But they are fascists, and their view of things is certainly not incompatible with the neocons, enough so that the neocons have enormous influence int his administration. Think of it this way: Bush doesn't give a damn about Israel (nor do I recall that Bush1 did), except from a geopolitical standpoint along with the fact that what the neocons want (which is what Israel under Sharon wants) works just fine for them. So they've hooked up with the neocon fascists, who are using another brand of fascists, the theocrats, while pandering to their regular everyday Christian Fundamentalist base who may think thanks to Falwell and others, that it's a good idea to try to make Revelations happen.


The average American wants peace, prosperity, and a healthy environment. Not these folks. They want THE EXACT OPPOSITE!!! Only by starting wars, wrecking global economic havoc, and trashing the environment can they fulfill their twisted apocalyptic goals.

Uh, those are also corporatist goals. It's just very handy that they also seem to fit with the Apocolypse. There's no way most of the corporations who are benefitting from globalization, the trashing of the environment, the impoverishment of people in third world countries, and so forth and so on are dreaming of Apocolypse.

And they are doing it because they have enough true believers who are willing to use fascism as a means to take control.

Vice versa, in my mind. Fascists are willing to let the religio-fascists in on the fun.

Once that happens, the fat cat capitalists who are in bed with these people will be in as deep a pile of crap as we are. Fascism is the least of our problems.

Fascism by ANY name (fascist, Nazi, neocon, Christian Reconstructionists and other fundamentalists) IS the problem.

Let me know if you'd like some links (about Strauss, Nazis brought into the U.S., etc.).

[Nordic]

26. yes, the fascists are using religion as a tool to hold power

they don't believe any of their own bullshit regarding religion.

The fundies are being played for fools and they're too stupid to know it.

[toddaa]

35. Fleshing out my comments

Clinton's no favorite of mine, either, but I have no real quibble with this statement other than to say it would probably be helpful if you fleshed it out.

After the Oklahoma City bombing, Janet Reno asked for most of the secret surveillance provisions that eventually ended up in the Patriot Act. Electronic surveillance and the fight against private citizens right to strong crypto are just two examples of the all out assault on the 4th Amendment under Clinton. I also still have a tape recording of Reno testifying before Congress where she says that if the entertainment industry did not police themselves, she would do whatever she could to circumvent the 1st Amendment. That is why it's important for us to not assume that we are safe with a Democrat in the WH. We have travelled too far down the path of authoritarianism to have all its trappings disappear on Nov. 3rd.

Do NOT consider fascists in any way separate from the theocratic fundamentalists. They are one and the same, just a slightly different facet (and sometimes there's not even that distinction -- for example, did you know that Christian Reconstructionists have ties with the voting machine industry?).

I prefer to use the word fascism in its academic sense. Not all totalitarian regimes are fascists. Some Reconstructionists have fascist leanings, but the Dominionist faction does not and those are ultimately the ones orchestrating the theocratic overthrow of the Republic.

Uhh, an awful lot of the Neocons are NOT into Biblical Prophecy: they're Jews. It's hard for me to think of either Cheney or Rumsfeld as True Believers, and I am also not convinced that George W. Bush is himself a True Believer -- or if he is, he's a demented and delusional one, and ALSO a useful tool.

The Neocons are not particularly interested in the domestic agenda. Fascism is certainly their goal, but they are far more interested in foreign affairs. The Reconstructionists have a very different agenda, but one that does not conflict with the neocons, so they are using each other to further their means. The Reconstructionists only foreign policy interest is Israel and the building of the Temple. Once that occurs, they will no longer have need for the Neocons (who are infidels in their eyes), and will probably speed up Christ's triumphant return by killing off a few unrepentent Jews as a dress rehearsal.

As for GW, I've been around enough "born agains" to recognize a true believer when I see one. Demented and delusional is a requirement. The trouble is, we tend to equate demented and delusional with incompetent. That grossly misunderestimates their ability to wreak havoc.

Fascism by ANY name (fascist, Nazi, neocon, Christian Reconstructionists and other fundamentalists) IS the problem.

Again, I prefer to limit the use of the word fascism to its traditional meaning. Replace fascism with authoritarianism, and I will agree. The hardcore Reconstructionists, like Gary North, do not have much use for big business. If you remember North's notorious Y2k web site, you will recall just how much he relished an economic catastrophe.

[anarchy1999]

49. El, You are amazing! Thanks for all the links. Just one quibble with

above post and something we all really need to be careful with.

"Uhh, an awful lot of the Neocons are NOT into Biblical Prophecy: they're Jews."

We need to start using the term Zionist Jews. There are many Jews who are fighting for peace in Israel. There are many people of Jewish faith that denounce the creation of Israel and what has been done since in the Mid-East. We need to be really crystal clear, the Neo-Cons are mostly Jewish Zionists, not just Jews.

Just a thought. And once again, thank you for all the wonderful work you do.

[serryjw]

48. Have you ever read this?

It gave me the chillsd I still have not recovered from......

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/ConstitutionRestorationAct.htm

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/HR3799ConstitutionRestorationAct.html

Its' nice to see we learn NOTHING from history.......

“Day by day we are winning over the hearts and minds of these repressed people. Soon they will free from the yoke of tyranny and will embrace democracy.”

General Westmoreland Vietnam 1968

[not systems]

27. "B" as in "Bush," "B" as in "Bormann"

Here is a good program documenting Bush ties to the 3rd Reich.

http://spitfirelist.com/ftr.html

and check out

FTR-273 "B" as in "Bush," "B" as in "Bormann"

You can find the audio here

http://archive.wfmu.org:5555/archive/DX /

as

dx-FTR-273a

and

dx-FTR-273b

[AmerDem]

28. Here is some info on fascism.

Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

By Dr. Lawrence Britt

1.Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as
a motivational tool by the government over the
masses.

2.Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most
common religion in the nation as a tool to
manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and
terminology is common from government leaders, even
when the major tenets of the religion are
diametrically opposed to the government's policies
or actions.

3.Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist
regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic
mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are
flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

4.Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing
power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist
government, labor unions are either eliminated
entirely, or are severely suppressed.

5.Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under
fascist regimes, the police are given almost
limitless power to enforce laws. The people are
often willing to overlook police abuses and even
forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism.
There is often a national police force with
virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

6.Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in
fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times
elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against
or even assassination of opposition candidates, use
of legislation to control voting numbers or
political district boundaries, and manipulation of
the media. Fascist nations also typically use their
judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

7.Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes
almost always are governed by groups of friends and
associates who appoint each other to government
positions and use governmental power and authority
to protect their friends from accountability. It is
not uncommon in fascist regimes for national
resources and even treasures to be appropriated or
even outright stolen by government leaders.

8.Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and
business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are
the ones who put the government leaders into power,
creating a mutually beneficial business/government
relationship and power elite.

9.Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is
directly controlled by the government, but in other
cases, the media is indirectly controlled by
government regulation, or sympathetic media
spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially
in war time, is very common.

10. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist
nations tend to be almost exclusively
male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion
and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is
represented as the ultimate guardian of the family
institution.

11.Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a
Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a
unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate
a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
religious minorities; liberals; communists;
socialists, terrorists, etc.

12.Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist
nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility
to higher education, and academia. It is not
uncommon for professors and other academics to be
censored or even arrested. Free expression in the
arts and letters is openly attacked.

13.Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are
widespread domestic problems, the military is given
a disproportionate amount of government funding, and
the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
military service are glamorized.

14.Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for
security, the people in fascist regimes are
persuaded that human rights can be ignored in
certain cases because of "need." The people tend to
look the other way or even approve of torture,
summary executions, assassinations, long
incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes
of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco
(Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin
American regimes. Britt found 14 defining
characteristics common to each:

[kimchi]

40. The sheeple won't make it through number 2.

What would be great is a quote to go with each characteristic, preferably from one of the cabal members.

I.e.: with us or against us, teachers are traitors, we were just following orders, Kill all the Muslims leaders and convert them to Christianity, Rather (I think) talking about the press being coerced, etc.

[barb162]

29. there are several books

and I don't know if they are still in print but they are probably at university libraries

1. International Relations Between the Two World Wars 1919-1939 by E. H. Carr, Harper & Row, 1947
2. The Crisis of German Ideology by George Mosse
3. The German Catastrophe by Friedrich Meinecke
4. Varieties of Fascism by Eugen Weber

I think the world was quite stunned when Hitler became more powerful and then finally became Chancellor in the mid 1930s. They simply didn't know what to do about it. National socialism was going on in several countries at the same time, including the USA during the time and check the fourth book for an outstanding exposition of the various forms by country.

[AmerDem]

31. kick

:kick:

[Toots]

32. What does Marie Antionette have to do with Fascism?

:shrug:

[Nordic]

44. well, my point was this --

republicans seem to hate to read, and they don't read about history and are doomed to repeat it.

For instance, they didn't seem to read about the British occupation of Iraq in the 1920's. It didn't go very well. The British were much more ruthless than even we are today (they used poison gas for one thing) and it just got worse and worse.

Republicans today in America seem to forget about what happened to Marie Antionette as well. They tend to forget that when the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer, that at some point the poor are gonna get REALLY FUCKING PISSED OFF and might just want to slit the throats of the rich.

Which is why you have more of a socialistic democracies in so many european countries where they have revolutions that killed their ruling classes (such as France).

They French remember. They've been through it before. They don't want to live through it again.

America is an adolescent country that thinks it knows everything.

Its cocky and needs to be taken down a peg. Sadly, Iraq is just the thing to take it down many many pegs.

I'm sorry to see that my country cannot learn from history, not even its own.

[Blue Gardener]

34. How do you get people to wake up?

DU'ers can see what's going on, but I would hazard a guess that the majority of people in this country would think this is just all too far-fetched. How bad does it have to get before they figure it out?

[Q]

36. Many Germans probably asked themselves that same queston....

- It makes it more difficult to get people to pay attention when there are appeasers in one's own party. The appeasers in the Democratic party: the DLC. They are the ones who encourage 'working with' Bush*, rubber stamping his agenda and not opposing his illegal wars.

- Fascism is successful where there is no united front against it. Some Democrats did try to step forward and warn us...but they were quickly hushed and marginalized by the 'new' Democrats.

[Nordic]

45. by the time the American people figure it out it'll be WAY too late

which is why so many of us have this urgency, this gnawing feeling in the pits of our stomachs, the insane levels of frustration.

It's like we're the clairvoyant ones, running into the nightclub where 100 people are gonna die, and trying to convince the people that the place is GONNA BURN DOWN and nobody believes us.

By the time the American people realize what's happened, it's gonna be all smoke and rubble.

Which is why we're so pissed off at the media, because it's their goddamn JOB and RESPONSIBILITY to inform the citizens of what's going on.

Instead, they are providing the fiddles for the romans to play.

[Veggie Meathead]

38. I think it was Alex Cockburn who said that the media in this

country are in the business of providing reassurance to the people that our country is in good hands, that our democracy is vigorous and whatever actions that our rulers take is thrust on them from evil foreign men.They are also trained to ignore the obvious such as why did no one raise any questions about Bush's record throughout the 2000 campaign.These two insights tell us that we are headed for a cathartic showdown in this country.

[Chelsea Patriot]

39. Adolf, Benito,and Marie!

I just used those three names last night at work to explain why these people NEVER win!

They constantly try and try and ALWAYS miserably FAIL.

Why would the Bush Family and their Minions be any different?

Adolf and Eva, Benito and Clara, and Marie and Louis---all come to a rather unpretty end. H-M-M-M....

Aside, what is it about Austria producing these fascist freaks?

[lostnfound]

41. Funny how they never explained this in high school history class.

We were taught a lot about the Holocaust and about Hitler, but the question of 'why it happened' usually came down to a lesson about bigotry (anti-Semitism) and fear (people being afraid to take a stand). These were important lessons, but a lesson about media and profits for big business would have been at least as useful.

[BiggJawn]

42. Ah, but they think they're SMARTER than Benito and Adolph!

We won't make the same mistakes, and besides, the Sheeple are dull and stupid, and the smart ones on that DU place? We'll take care of them....
That's what the neo-cons think.

[Nordic]

46. yes, the only history they've seemed to study is that

and they're looking for ways to improve on it.

I think you're 100% right.

They are THAT stupid and arrogant.

And ultimately self destructive.

Problem is, how many people are gonna die before they go down in flames?

[BiggJawn]

50. Well, at least a thousand of us and who knows how many of them...

What, tens of thousands of Afghans and Iraqis?

The Sheeple here won't wake up until they ALL have someone they care about who's been "disappeared" for "talking shit" about the BFEE.

[rman]

51. well, they do have better propaganda.

In Nazi Germany the propaganda didn't work well enough that the Nazis could do without opression by force.

[BiggJawn]

53. That's true. No Television...

The news readers on Radio Berlin could've been doing jumping-jacks naked and it wouldn't have mattered.

Just put the young honeys on FAUX in loose-fitting (or no)brassieres, short skirts, and set them on un-comfy high stools instead of behind desks, and.....

[starroute]

43. US media in the 30's also had a pro-fascist slant

My mother told me when I was little about how during the Spanish civil war, US papers like the New York Times would regularly refer to the Republican forces as being supported by the Soviet Union but they would never mention that Franco's forces were supported by Italy and Germany. This was because they were afraid of alienating their major advertisers. My mother knew what was going on from reading George Seldes's columns, but most people weren't aware of it.


http://www.namebase.org/sources/ZJ.html

Seldes, George. One Thousand Americans. New York: Boni & Gaer, 1947. 312 pages.

George Seldes (1890-1995) covered the Spanish Civil War from Madrid for the New York Post, and from 1940 to 1950 he edited the weekly newsletter "In Fact." A free-lance muckraker for most of his career, Seldes retired in 1950 but was rediscovered in the 1980s; his autobiography "Witness to a Century" was published in 1987 and became a bestseller. With more than a dozen books to his credit, Seldes is considered by progressives as one of the century's leading anti-fascists. In addition to tracking the extreme Right, Seldes also tracked corporations and big money, and their power and influence in the American press. (Regrettably, this aspect of his research is no longer important to the Left, which for the past two decades has concentrated more on identity politics and multiculturalism.)

This 1947 book is dense with the names of major American power brokers, including interests such as J.P. Morgan and groups such as the National Association of Manufacturers. One 80-page section on the magazine press deals with both the Henry Luce and Morgan empires. Throughout this book, Seldes connects the interlocking dots between owners, directors, and their handmaidens within the political process. "These one thousand Americans are interested in property rights, rather than the general welfare," and have the power to "maintain the status quo system or to move backward."


Henry Luce is a name that doesn't come up much these days, and yet I keep thinking it would be useful for us to find out more about the early history and influence of Time Magazine. Luce was yet another Skull and Bones member (class of 1920 -- three years after Prescott Bush). It was Luce's Time/Life that bought up the Zapruder film and sat on it for many years. I'm sure Luce was a major player in what went wrong in this country starting in the mid-20th century, but I don't know any of the details.

[Wapsie B]

47. Well,

"while the republicans use history to ape the fascist agenda, they also seem evilly ignorant of it."

for one thing, repugs are bound and convinced that the Nazi/Fascist movement was an outgrowth of Liberalism in the 20's & 30's. If you listen closely, you'll hear the term "Liberal Fascist" spoken quite freely. They blame us for Hilter's atrocities.