What are Your Feelings About Black Box Voting?

[AP]

I'm curious. I don't want to influence the responses here, but I have to say that BBV has got to be one of the top two or three most important in America today, and I'm just curious how people feel when they read Bev's posts.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tom_paine]

3. That's what the Busheviks want you to think, Pete

Boil it down to the butterfat:

Modem-equipped voting machines + Federalist judges ruling that the people have no right to send independant inspectors to look at said voting macvhines + no paper trail or verifiability + Rethugs with a history of vote fraud and corruption that extends back through the 1950s South through the Smedley Butler Coup of 1936, and up again through Watergate, the October Surpirse =

The end of reliable, even remotely trustworthy voting.

Don't tune out because the issue is too complex. Stay engaged, even if you aren't personally active in the project. Spread the word. Keep it simple if you must and direct others to www.blackboxvoting.com.

This issue is too damned important. If we don't make cheating as difficult as possible for the Busheviks...well then...Orwellian surprises like 2000 and 2002 are just the beginning.

Hang in there, Pete. You don't haver to be involved in every nuance to know that this is perhaps the most important issue we face.

As my namesake once said "The right of voting for representatives is the right by which all others are protected."

[John_H]

9. I hope it can be somehow made digestible to the average media whore

or else it will be impossible to bring the necessary pressure to bear on the people with the juice to get it fixed.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

4. I agree. I used to read all the posts, but they have become more

esoteric, and harder to follow (although the recent ones are now getting my attention again -- the GA test, in particulare). I suspect there's a desire to allow the media to blow the story open (if it's all set out here, first, big media won't break it in a big way). Nonetheless, I wish there were a way for all of it to be a little more accessible to me (not a computer expert) so that I could have a better idea of what I can do to help blow the story open.

I have emailed reporters who are covering this story and have encouraged them to keep pursuing it because I feel there's something there (and have received emails from the reporters saying they agree). But I'd like to do more.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

11. Let me make it simple for you

Corporations with Republican CEOs and directors are making voting machines with no audit trail and no ability to do a recount, and telling us to trust them that they will count votes fairly. If you don't see that as a problem, you trust the Republicans far more than I do.

Face it vote fraud happens ALL THE TIME, in every election, and Democrats do it as much as Republicans do. Pretending it doesn't happen is pretty naive don't you think?

[AP]

12. I know the big picture. The intriguing feature-length narrative is the...

...part I don't have a firm grip on, because it really becomes obscured in the tech-heavy convolusions of the 70-post jargon-heavy threads.

Not that this is a big problem, because those threads seem to be helping the participants unravel the mystery.

But, for me, you know, it's like with Watergate. I understand the big picture of Watergate, and I understand the plot too. I can describe it in a paragraph, and I can describe the movie-length version too.

A scandal really creates a sense of pique in the public when the public understands both the one paragraph version and the movie-length version.

Maybe the BBV movie is still being written.

[oasis]

23. I believe it's a hard story for the press to follow and articulate

to a dumbed down American public. The "big picture" needs to be neatly packaged and sold to legislators as well.

[AP]

24. And usually TECHNOLOGY is articualted as a solution

There's this notion that it's all good if it's done with electrons. It's hard to reverse that perception (but what happened to all those Luddites who got alot of press from 98 to 2001? Well I guess they weren't able to stop the internet, so...)

[salin]

18. You capture

where I am on this - completely. Interesting. Important. Sometimes so caught in minutea that as an outsider it is hard to follow. Recognize that minutea is very important in figuring the whole picture and thus important for those active to track down and weed through what is significant and what is not. Wish sometimes there were more clear synposes of the newest finds of minutea that were more accessable to us (and thus to the mainstream press).

Am impressed as heck that DemActivist who was trying to get attention in Georgia almost immediately after the elections - with reportedly very little response for months and months - has through this growing movement/endeavor - gotten some real attention to the issue. Likewise with the whole BBV movement - e.g., getting the Stanford and Johns Hopkins folks and there weight behind the technical aspects added further credibility. Tenacity.

I don't know where it will lead. Don't know how much is conspiratorial how much is circumstancial. Don't know how many players, if it is conspiratorial, are even aware of that aspect of their industry. I believe it is important to figure it all out - and get the public involved. Even if it turned out not to be an active conspiracy - the ability for vast manipulation and exploitation is a conspiracy waiting to happen and THUS it is important for the public to be informed and involved.

But as an "outsider" - I read, follow, try to make sense of it, try to make others I am in contact with aware of the broad issue - but I don't know that I really contribute. However I very much applaud those working on this. Thank you.

[never cry wolf]

5. I agree

there are so many nuances and interconnections along with the fact that the technical stuff is way over my head. There is very little I can contribute, I am afraid. I wish it were more!!

[AP]

6. Bev's book is on my wish list at Amazon. Anyone read it?

Does it lay everything out clearly? Should I wait for the next edition?

[Sheila Samples]

10. Connecting the dot-coms...

For starters, Repubs own all of the touch-screen voting machines. They have already been used in several states--Georgia and Nebraska come immediately to mind. See article on Chuck Hagel's startling, land-slide victories (he worked for, and owns stock in voting machine corp) at http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm

We know that BushRoveCo never leave anything to chance -- they've even figured out how to get those millions of military votes it will take to keep their frightful junta in power. According to a July 17 article from ThePeoplesVoice.com, check's in the mail. See (http://liberty.hypermart.net/editorials/2003/Offshore_Company_Captures_Online_Military_Vote.htm).

writer Lynn Landes notes that the "Department of Defense has awarded the contract for a new online voting system for the military to an offshore company."

That company is Accenture, but you might recognize it as the former Arthur Andersen Consulting of Enron fame -- a corporation still obviously up to its old hi-jinks as it admitted recently that it "might have violated" the U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act by bribing foreign government officials, which is strictly (sic) prohibited.

Ralph Nader's Citizen Works has also raised the alarm to little or no media or public interest, warning that Accenture, home-based in Bermuda, is the leading offshore beneficiary of government contracts that privitize government services. According to the release, Accenture recently bought off its strategic partner, Election.com, which is composed of mostly Saudi and other foreign investors.

TheDailyEnron.com also attempted in vain to get our interest last year in an article which warned, "Accenture is lobbying furiously on Capitol Hill to defeat a measure that would deny federal contracts to US companies that move offshore to escape US taxes."

TheDailyEnron article went on to say, "Accenture also holds nearly $1 billion in government contracts in the US. The company earned nearly $700 million last year working for Uncle Sam and - ironically - is currently under contract with the Internal Revenue Service itself to redesign its online and Internet operations."

How could this be happening, right under our noses? How could discredited ol' Arthur Andersen get a job that gobbles up billions of government contract money as well as being the fox put in charge of guarding the government voting hen house?

The answer is a no-brainer which -- come to think of it -- ought to be easy for the majority of Americans. Can you spell "Dick Cheney?" Good. Stick with me here -- just one more dot to connect. Now spell "Halliburton."

Isn't it strange that few of us seem to care that, before the 2000 presidential coup de'etat, Cheney and his Halliburton had no qualms about skirting the law to do business with brutal regimes, including that of Saddam Hussein -- especially that of Saddam Hussein? It's strange that few of us know, or care, that David Lesar, who succeeded Cheney at Halliburton, was a former Arthur Andersen official. Strange that Halliburton is still paying Cheney an exhorbitant annual salary...

Landes tells us that, "In an October 2001 press release, Halliburton and Accenture announced a major expansion of their longstanding relationship with the signing of an alliance between Accenture and Landmark Graphics Corporation, a wholly owned business unit of Halliburton."

So, it looks like Arthur Anderson, a discredited U.S. corporation now based in Burmuda whose 75,000 employees are mostly non-U.S. citizens, will be in charge of our military's 2004 presidential votes -- while Halliburton puts some really, really neat graphics on the computerized machines for the voting pleasure of an estimated 6-million military and civilian voters.

Will company insiders rig this no-paper-trail online voting system? Will it be vulnerable to attack by outsiders? What do you think? Do any of us even think at all anymore? No, really, think about it, please...

It's time we woke up. It's time we accepted the fact that the shoddy mainstream U.S. corporate media will not touch this voting scandal, at least not before the next presidential "selection." So, it's up to us. Forget the dots. It's time to connect the "dot.coms. If we don't, we'll soon be forced to spell, "Oh, crap--we're screwed again..."

Because now we know how this administration thinks it can afford to turn its back on this nation's vital strength -- its active-duty and retired military personnel and their families. It's not that their votes don't count. It's that -- thanks to Arthur Andersen and Halliburton -- their votes are already counted.

[Spazito]

2. I think it is a very big issue...

and am following it closely. As a Canadian, I can't really do anything to help but wish Bev and all who are putting their hearts into this all the best! I do believe there was vote tampering in 2000 and that it is partly connected to BBV.

(I didn't vote on the poll)

[John_H]

7. I think it's PROBABLY a huge problem

but I'll be 100 percent sure when DemActivist hacks that machine--and so will a lot of other people, especially major reporters.

Bev and DemActivists efforts just may save the country. Here's why: BBV voting machines are not currently a problem for Republicans or Dems so nothing will get done. Period. But a successful hack will make it a huge political problem for both parties. It's the only way we'll get even a minimum fix, such as paper reciepts.

[sujan]

8. vote or not

no difference.

[loudsue]

13. My vote didn't show up!

But I voted that I'm actively working to do something about it.

I don't understand all the computer inside-programming stuff, but I DO understand that our Democracy is over -- ABSOLUTELY OVER -- unless we can fix this problem........AND FAST!! And I also know beyond any doubt whatsoever that powerful people DO NOT WANT THIS EXPOSED.

Every day I log-in at DU, and do a "search" on "BevHarris" "all forums" "author" "last 24 hours". Those threads I read first. ALL THE OTHER THREADS WITHOUT EXCEPTION mean absolutely nothing if we don't cover the vote. The recall, 9/11, Iraq, discrimination, privatization.... nothing matters if we have no say in who is running our country.

Many DUers just can't get it into their reality picture that life as we've known it WILL NOT EVER BE THE SAME if we, the people, don't have a say in our government....only the people who program & own the machines will decide for us.

How often does big business have OUR BEST INTERESTS at heart?




:kick::kick::kick:

[AP]

14. Right on. This is what I was looking for.

I was wondering how many people who feel this way are out there.

[never cry wolf]

17. I agree with you

this is very serious. I do what I can and follow all the threads as best I can but can't really make the claim that I am actively helping. However these heroes and heroines have my full support!!!

[AP]

15. If you think it isn't a problem, why don't you tell us why?

It's revealing that these people aren't trying to articulate the reasons they think it isn't a problem.

[damnraddem]

16. If white boxes are allowed to vote, then so should black boxes.

;-)

[ArkDem]

19. I believe you have captured the issue, sir!

!!

[Festivito]

20. I talk it up, just wish I had more time. nt.

[seemslikeadream]

22. I am personally involved

and doing something about it.
I was able to talk to Sonny Perdue on national TV and ask him what he was going to do about those Diebold machine that got him and Chambliss elected. He told me and the C-SPAN viewers he'd personally make sure voting machines in Georgia were secure.

I'm waiting Sonny

[hunter]

25. Sometimes I dream of Carrie Nation...

Yes I do, especially after I've stayed up late hunting vampires.

"Between 1900 and 1910 Carrie Nation was arrested some 30 times after leading her followers in the destruction of one water hole after another with cries of "Smash, ladies, smash!"

That would make the evening news, wouldn't it? Imagine a bunch of us smashing electronic voting machines...

Of course I am a peaceful person, so I would never do that.

You would think that the people we trust to count our votes would do everything possible to ensure that the process was entirely transparent; that they would leave no dark places for a cheater to hide.

But no, that's not the way it is at all. As soon as you start asking honest questions, they look at you like you were asking them to strip naked and do the chicken dance in Times Square.

"Oh the nerve of you!"

Or else they start burrowing into their own crap... Sometimes it's quite amazing how well they blend in.

The Diebold story is especially funny to me. Bev found Diebold's ftp site using google because a bunch of fifteen year old computer geeks were laughing at Diebold's source code whenever they weren't playing computer games, talking about movies, or looking at dirty pictures.

Other BBV companies are just as bad. Even if they've never left the outhouse door wide open like Diebold did, they still stink.

Okay, I'm truly enjoying all these similes and metaphors. Please pardon me if I've added to any of the confusion on the BBV threads. Computers and computer networking are pretty dry subjects, and I often come to DU for refreshment...

So, what can you do? If you've already been forced to vote on these crappy Black Box Voting machines, go out now and raise some hell. Don't do what Carrie Nation did, do whatever legal thing you can think of to make your election officials VERY uncomfortable. Write letters to the newspaper, pass out flyers, make calls, set up meetings.

If we generally make pests of ourselves, maybe we can get this moving without fireworks.

Meanwhile pardon me once again as I drop back into the darkness to look for some matches.

Peace