Hagel and Holbrooke! Do You think This repuke is Jumping Ship?

[leftchick]

I missed all of the Sunday shows this morning. Does anyone know how this turned out? I am not a fan of Holbrooke or Hagel but I will kiss anyone who is against aWol*s policies......



Sen. Chuck Hagel (news, bio, voting record), R-Neb., talks to former U.N. Ambassador and senior advisor to the Kerry-Edwards campaign, Richard Holbrooke, right, outside the CBS studio in Washington Sunday, Sept. 19, 2004, after being interviewed on CBS's 'Face the Nation'. Hagel said Sunday that a sharp analysis of our policies in Iraq (news - web sites) is required. 'We didn't do that in Vietnam, and we saw 11 years of casualties mount to the point where we finally lost'. (AP Photo/CBS Face the Nation, Karin Cooper

[blm]

1. Hagel is on my list of Republicans who I believe will vote for Kerry

even though they may never admit it publically.

Same with:
Dick Lugar
John McCain
Arlen Specter
Olympia Snowe
Colin Powell
Christopher Shays
Ron Paul
Lincoln Chafee

[PROGRESSIVE1]

8. Shays is a Rethug all the way!!!

He will vote to DESTROY AMERICA!!!

[molly]

2. Both of them spoke at a Biden Seminar

I met Holbrooke (a few years ago), but did not go to the Hagel Seminar even tho I had a ticket. Joe would not have invited Hagel if he thought he was a rw hack.

[leftchick]

3. I find Hagel very hard to figure.....

Every time I hear him speak I could swear he is a Democrat. Then I remember he has some stock (or perhaps is an owner?) in the Voting Company that runs Nebraska's elections. Hard to trust someone with that sort of power.

[molly]

4. I think he is on the fence - Nebraska is well kindof red

[AlCzervik]

7. He's mostly moderate and he may run in 08 for the repub nod

he, and Lugar and some of the other regualr conservatives have had with this admin. Lugar was snubbed by Bush on foreign policy matters and that was a big mistake because Lugar has been around for a long time and there is more loyalty to him than Bush.

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Bingo.....ES&S

He stole a few elections with those machines HIS company just happened to make. Hagel was Chairman of the Board.... Hagel isn't going Dem. He's a crook.


<snip>
THE OMAHA CONNECTION

According to Nebraska’s Elections Office, ES&S is the only voting machine company certified to count votes in the state. A small percentage of the vote in Nebraska is still hand-counted.

ES&S was formed in 1997 by a merger of Omaha-based American Information Systems (AIS) and Dallas-based Business Records Corp. (BRC). BRC was partially owned by Cronus Industries, a company with connections to the Hunt brothers from Texas, as well as other individuals and entities, including Rothschild, Inc.

In 1997, American Information Systems was an unincorporated, wholly-owned subsidiary of the Omaha World-Herald Company according to a Department of Justice press release about the merger of AIS with BRC. American Information Systems’ 1996 sales in all of its product lines were about $14.3 million.

Nebraska-born Charles T. “Chuck” Hagel moved to Omaha in 1992 to become chairman of AIS and the McCarthy Group, a private investment bank, Harris told AFP. <snip>

http://www.americanfreepress.net/11_10_02/Secret_Group_Manipulates/secret_group_manipulates.html



<snip>
The Ahmanson family sold their shares in American Information Systems to the McCarthy Group and the World Herald Company, Inc. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel disclosed in public documents that he was the Chairman of American Information Systems and claimed between a $1 to 5 million investment in the McCarthy Group. In 1997, American Information Systems purchased Business Records Corp. (BRC), formerly Texas-based election company Cronus Industries, to become ES&S. One of the BRC owners was Carolyn Hunt of the right-wing Hunt oil family, which supplied much of the original money for the Council on National Policy.

In 1996, Hagel became the first elected Republican Nebraska senator in 24 years when he did surprisingly well in an election where the votes were verified by the company he served as chairman and maintained a financial investment. In both the 1996 and 2002 elections, Hagel’s ES&S counted an estimated 80% of his winning votes. Due to the contracting out of services, confidentiality agreements between the State of Nebraska and the company kept this matter out of the public eye. Hagel’s first election victory was described as a “stunning upset” by one Nebraska newspaper.

Hagel’s official biography states, “Prior to his election to the U.S. Senate, Hagel worked in the private sector as the President of McCarthy and Company, an investment banking firm based in Omaha, Nebraska and served as Chairman of the Board of American Information Systems.” During the first Bush presidency, Hagel served as Deputy Director and Chief Operating Officer of the 1990 Economic Summit of Industrialized Nations (G-7 Summit).

Bob Urosevich was the Programmer and CEO at AIS, before being replaced by Hagel. Bob now heads Diebold Election Systems and his brother Todd is a top executive at ES&S. Bob created Diebold’s original electronic voting machine software. Thus, the brothers Urosevich, originally funded by the far Right, figure in the counting of approximately 80% of electronic voting in the United States. <snip>

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

[Ms. Toad]

12. You might want to check with a few Nebraska Dems...

My understanding from two folks who have been liberal activists in the state for more than 50 years is that Hagel was the better candidate in the elections in question. Their reaction to the allegations that the election was rigged, "You haven't heard any Nebraska Democrats saying that, have you?"

Regardless of a financial interest in a voting machine company that probably should have been disclosed earlier than it was, Hagel's election can be attributed the fact that he appealed more to a lot of liberals who voted for the candidates rather than the party.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. Well, if they trust him

no skin off my nose. I don't trust the man as far as I can throw him.

To win elections he wasn't supposed to win, smells funny to me. The ES&S machines counted 80% of his votes? Amazing how he just happened to win in African American districts where he was overwhelmingly down in the polls. As we know, African Americans "usually" vote for Democrats, not Repubs.

Bev Harris knows more about Chuck Hagel and his Electronic Voting Machines.....I trust her judgement on this. She smells something fishy. She should know, she's investigated it.

This is just like the talk of how WONDERFUL McCain was. NOW look at him. :eyes:

[Ms. Toad]

26. I'm just suggesting

that I trust the word of Nebraska dems/liberals I know personally when they tell me that they voted for Hagel as the better candidate. Especially when these individuals have each worked 50+ years on peace and justice issues, and been collectively the leader of one national peace and justice organization, on the board of another, on the payrolls of two others, and who helped found and remain active participants of peace organizations and anti-death penalty organizations in Nebraska.

I don't know whether they trust Hagel or not - I didn't ask that question. When the allegatios about Hagel arose, I asked whether they felt the election was stolen. The clear answer I got back was "No," along with the information that they, and many other liberals/dems they knew of, had voted for Hagel. I always find reality checks with real people helpful.

Since you mention McCain, even though I don't think McCain is particularly wonderful (and was not happy when it was rumored Kerry was considering him as a running mate), if the presidential candidates were John McCain and Zell Miller I suspect I'd vote for McCain. My understanding is that many Nebraska liberals/dems felt they had a similar choice.

[leftchick]

22. Thank you for the reminder....

once a crook always a crook... :grr:

[A_Possum]

5. Hagel is saying amazing things

True things. And he's getting on the media and saying them.

As conservative Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) put it last week, "the worst thing we can do is hold ourselves hostage to some grand illusion that we're winning. Right now, we are not winning. Things are getting worse."

Washington Post

Mr. Hagel said the State Department request was "a clear acknowledgment that we are not holding ourselves hostage to some grand illusion that we're winning."

New York Times

This seems devastating to the BushCo to me.

[leftchick]

6. braver than most Dems.....

that is for sure! Ah let's call a fuck-up a "fuck-up" OKAY?

[acmavm]

15. Of Nebraska's two senators, Hagel the republican is the most intelligent

and more likely to vote against the administration if he thinks that it's wrong.

Nelson, the republican turned democrat has his nose so far up bush*s ass that they'll never pry it out.

I once tried to ask the Nebraska Democratic Party if they couldn't possibly find someone better than Nelson out of all the dems in this state. I suppose using the term 'worthless' is one of the reasons that I never heard back from them. But for a state that was consistently democratic until about 25 or so years ago, it's a total mystery why when it went to the dark side it went in such a big way. Every time a republican gets into office it's hurt the family farmer. We have so much corporate farming and hog lots that the family farmer probably qualifies for the endangered species list.

Go figure.

[fugue]

9. I'm pretty sure Hagel's on our side

After all, his constituents don't need to know who he votes for. Secret ballot and all that.

Anyway, he seems to have a lot of negatives to say about Bush. I think he'd prefer that Bush smartened up and stopped being a neocon, but I also think he's figured out that's not gonna happen.

[NYCGirl]

10. Hagel is one of Kerry's "Band of Brothers"

From http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Band_of_brothers

On April 3, 2003, at the Jefferson Jackson Dinner in Georgia, Kerry used the phrase in a speech: "We were part of a special band of brothers in the U.S. Senate, Max Cleland, Bob Kerrey at one point, John McCain, Chuck Hagel, Chuck Robb, myself, and I'll tell you seriously that those of you who have served in the military, in particularly those of you who've been in combat that share this sentiment with me, it's as close as men who don't throw the word around easily can get to loving another man in the most connected, personal, and extraordinary way...." <5>

The idea that Kerry and Cleland considered themselves members of a band of brothers in the Senate was expressed in an August 16, 2000 CNN interview conducted by Larry King with them. <6>

Cleland: "We have six fellow Vietnam veterans in the Senate. And we are a band of brothers -- what, four Democrats and two Republicans. But we pulled together when the going gets tough. And we're very special group, I think."

Kerry: "I think there's a special bond of friendship that crosses party lines."

[Rose Siding]

13. I think he's campaigning for '08

Nothing more.

[jpgray]

14. What party_line said. Hagel has his own irons in the fire here. (nt)

[autorank]

17. If he still owns the voting machine company, he could fix it for us(lol)

[Disturbed]

18. Nope...

Never trust a Repub. What some Repubs and even most Dems want is a crackdown on Iraq. The Oligarchy will NEVER allow any Admin. to leave Iraq now. Too much is at stake now that Saddam's hold on the region is brocken.

[BensMom]

19. Under the table

Nope Hagel is like that "Where's Waldo" guy from years back. Always popping up - at the right places.


Part Eddie Haskel, too. Sounds good, but you know something just isn't right.

[LunaC]

20. Can we trade Hagel for Zell Miller?

I mentioned this in another thread and there were posters who were shocked that I would say such a thing. It's nice to know that others respect him for the truths he speaks regardless of which side of the aisle he's sitting.

It's just a shame that he carries the taint of ES&S.....

[joanne]

21. Add Susan Collins to the list

of Republicans we think will secretly vote for Kerry.

[Pallas180]

23. Ever since Hagel caught lying re: his substantial interest in the voting m

machines, and their secret program and easily hacked back door,
he's been appearing on every talk show for a year or more trying to
look like a boy scout.

Dont be taken in by this crook. Won re-election by 80 some odd percent.

Yah. Sure. With the help of some very kinky electronic voting machines

[RedEagle]

24. Hagel is the fall back if they can't run Jeb

He an play good cop/bad cop, because the GOP is in control.

Appearances.

[kaitykaity]

25. You gotta ad Lugar to the list. He just blasted the Iraq

mess late last week. Called it "nonsense" or something.

I think the cooler, saner heads in the Party are seeing
an opportunity to rid themselves of their Bush albatross.
Good for them.