We are losing the war in Iraq

[Owlet]

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/npp/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=15845

[Inland]

1. No, its a "catastrophic success." As Pyrrhus once said

"Another such victory and all will be lost"

[Roy Robertson]

16. "Win" and "Lose" have no meaning, if "Why?" has no answer

Why are we fighting there? Can someone remind me? I seem to have forgotten.

We have NO good reason to be there. There are NO valid objectives to be "won" or "lost".
Many thousands have been killed. Many MANY more thousands have been wounded, some horribly.

But no one can quite put their finger on "Why?".

That one little word...

[Eloriel]

18. Success might actually be the operative word -- look at this article

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FI21Ak02.html

This analyst thinks the admin is just fine with this "catastrophic success" because their REAL goals lie elsewhere. I haven't even read it yet -- but I was very impressed with the excerpt posted in Editorials.

Bush, Marshal Foch and Iran
By Spengler

Washington's strategic position in the Middle East is stronger than it has ever been, contrary to superficial interpretation. With much of central Iraq out of US control and a record level of close to 100 attacks a day against US forces, President George W Bush appears on the defensive. The moment recalls French Marshal Ferdinand Foch's 1914 dispatch from the Marne: "My center is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent. I shall attack." To be specific, the United States will in some form or other attack Iran while it arranges the division of Iraq.

That Sunni diehards and Shi'ite adventurers would prevent the pacification of Iraq never was in question (Will Iraq survive the Iraqi resistance? , December 23, 2003). Leaks of a National Intelligence Estimate warning last week of impending Iraqi civil war suggest that Washington is thinking past the loser's game of occupation. The phony war between reluctant Iraqi recruits and rebels will persist past November, but something deadly and different will follow on Bush's re-election. Russian paratroops will be busy in the Caucasus after the Beslan atrocity, making a Russian presence in Iraq unlikely, contrary to my earlier forecast. (That may have been the intended outcome of the incident.) Nonetheless, Washington has a winning card to play, and the decibel level of protests from Tehran as well as from the US opposition suggests that it is well anticipated.

[Roy Robertson]

21. Czechoslovakia chose to divide itself into two separate countries,

once they had the freedom to do so. The Iraqis might make a similar decision, given the chance.
Or they might not. I don't know why WE should care, one way or the other.

If we get up on our hind legs and say "Shazzam! You are 3 countries now!" I suspect the Iraqi
reaction to this would be similar to their reaction to our "Shazzam! You are sovereign now!"
They will say "Get the hell out of our 3 sovereign countries!"

What matters is that we leave. They will sort out the details.

The oil from the region will find its way into the world market and, eventually, out the tailpipes
of our SUVs, one way or another.

[readmylips]

2. We? or Bush's War....

I'm not part of that 'we.'

[truth2power]

3. Excellent article. Short and to the point.

"There may not be a solution to Iraq. There have been so many profound mistakes, starting with the decision to launch this war against a weapons threat that did not exist, that it may not be possible to salvage the situation. The U.S. cannot cut and run, but neither is it wise to simply stay and die. Officials should start planning for a careful, safe withdrawal, almost certainly on a timetable considerably faster than the four years Kerry suggests.

This is not a reflection on the performance of U.S. troops or leadership. As Cornwallis learned at Yorktown, Napoleon at Moscow and Hitler at Stalingrad, sometimes the best generals, the best troops and the best weapons cannot compensate for deeply flawed strategic vision."

[Kenneth ken]

4. I reject part of that assessment

This is not a reflection on the performance of . . . leadership.
It does reflect a failure of leadership. The generals on the scene as well as thse at the Pentagaon should have been very vocal in denouncing the idea of Iraqis welcoming the invasion, as well as the too small force planned for post-invasion security. Most of all they should have denounced the lack of an exit strategy.

[mmonk]

5. Conquering and holding countries in the violatile

powder keg of the middle east against the wishes of the world community and without proper cause was an absolute idiotic idea by the PNAC. It was doomed for failure from the start because it wasn't grounded in sound reasoning or reality. Now we are in a horrendous fix with the rest of the world more than happy to watch us die and stew there.

[jokerman93]

8. In fact

That did happen.

There was a purge of the dissenting top brass. Problem solved.

[Kenneth ken]

13. did

they speak out publicly in attempts to sway public support? I don't recall much, if any of that. It's possible whatever voice they might have tried to raise was ignored by the lapdog media though.

[Eloriel]

19. Haha. They grew some more "dissenting brass" in the meantime n/t

[Raster]

6. Iraq has been a failure for Imperial Amerika since the word "GO"...

Nothing fell into place. No one behaved as promised. Every prediction was wrong. We ignored history and tradition, as well as
our own military and intelligence. We dissed the United Nations and sneared at international law. And to top it all off, we have NO contingency plans of any kind.

If truth were told, our government never intended a true democracy in Iraq. We wanted a puppet administration that would allow the appropriate corporate interests to suck the place dry. Any really legitimate democratically elected government would throw our asses out in a New York Minute. The lives of just about EVERY Iraqi are much worse under our occupation than they were under Saddam. At least Saddam gave them electricity, sewers and water. We have made loud, grand promises and have woefully under-delivered. Reconstruction funds have dissapeared. We have become Al-Qaida's best recruitment and fund raising tool. That's how bad we fucked up.

We didn't find weapons. We didn't find Osama, who was *NEVER* even there. Win in Iraq? We were never even close.

We may have triggered the 21st century version of the Crusades.

[jokerman93]

9. slow genocide? n/t

[Raster]

10. Nah, we never gave a shit who lived or died there--our own included--as...

...long as our objectives were going to be met.

ultimately what I find amazing is that the Saudi royal family, who are big shareholders in the BFEE, Carlyle, etc. allowed this latest little exercise to take place. The Saudi Royal family has been put in the most PRECARIOUS position. They, like Iraq itself, are far more unstable because of the BFEE. Bad judgment all around.

[leesa]

7. Of course we are and we certainly deserve to lose it.

Not only that, I would say that, for the health and welfare of the country and its morality, it is CRITICAL that we lose it.

We are an arrogant, rapacious rogue nation that MUST be put in its place before we destroy the world. It's the only thing that might save us.

[TryingToWarnYou]

11. Duh

[Kenneth ken]

14. LOL

I really like that picture!

[jokerman93]

15. LOL

Captain Obvious! That is GREAT!

[fujiyama]

12. Correction

It's not that the US is losing the war.

The US has LOST the war.

[Porcupine]

17. Worse, Saudi Arabia will domino...

without the presence of U.S. forces to keep the massive population of young foriegn workers and unemployed Saudi's suppressed. Already pipeline bombings are becomining a frequent occurance inside Saudi Arabia.

The scope of this disaster will boggle historians. Already the U.S.'s president is unable to walk the streets of any major city in America without a massive military escort. This is unheard of in U.S. history even in times of war. Clinton used to jog over to Micky D's unnacounced and regularly would stop and wander through restaurants.

Bush is afraid of the open air in any U.S. coastal city.

The mind boggles.

[K-W]

20. Saudi Arabia was going to fall anyway, thats why we needed Iraqi bases.

Or rather, why they think we need the bases.

[w4rma]

22. This war was lost before it began. (nt)