Should the rest of the world unite to stop the U.S.A.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

At what point should the rest of the world think seriously about forming its own coalition of the willing and stop the American war machine.

What will it take to wake up the vocal minority and freeper types. Will they ever willingly abandon this hegemonic crusade.

Will the threat of imminent attack be required when reason has failed.

[Renew Deal]

1. I have read that this will happen eventually.

It would be scary if things came to that.

[Maple]

6. The world already is

The US not only gets no cooperation, it gets new obstacles.

The brakes were put on some time ago, in hopes you would rectify the situation in November.

[Emillereid]

2. I don't think the rest of the world has any other choice.

[DarkPhenyx]

3. It isn't the U.S.A. you need to stop

It's the current adminstration.

I'm not going to promise that the Kerry Admin is going to be better. I will promise it isn't going to be worse.

Please remember to seperate the people and the country from those in charge of it.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

8. After lurking for a while I'd agree that DU is full of..

the type of Americans the world has come to respect. But at what point should the rest of the world stop allowing this administration to run amok.

How long should the rest of the world let the American people take to get their house in order before it is presumed that this administration represents the will of the people.

[DarkPhenyx]

19. OK, here's my theory.

It's only my theory mind you and does not represent that of the current admin, the future admin, or even that of DU.

We need to pay the price until we elect an admin that doesn't act like complete jackasses. Until we, ad in the collective we as we are a democratic society of, purportedly, intelligent people, we must all pay the price for the society as a whole. This would be why 9/11 happened. That, however, is a different subject.

[TahitiNut]

11. "those in charge of it" are The People.

We've walked away from the responsibilities. We can't even get people to work the polls during election time. We constantly hear people say they'll leave before they're required to perform National Service. The "Let George Do It" attitude is rampant. Far less than half of eligible adults even vote! We keep looking for 'leaders' rather than public servants - and we're unwilling to perform those service ourselves. Hire somebody to do it. Hell, we don't even discuss politics in "polite company." Well, that's not the way a democracy survives. Ours is in intensive care right now - without health care insurance. The prognosis, imho, is grim - probably terminal.

[DarkPhenyx]

21. Yup! No kidding.

You hit the nail onthe head.

So how dpes this make us less responsible for the state of thing?

[Cleita]

12. Wow, where have I heard that before?

Now that we are the godless bastards, it hits home. There are still people today who hate all Japanese because of Pearl Harbor.

[DarkPhenyx]

23. Yes.

Some of my relatives feel tht way.

One who earned a Silver Star adn two Purple Hearts.

[J.C.M.]

4. they won't

While we are wronging the Iraqis, we aren't in there running the ovens like the Nazis did. Barring that type of wholesale slaughter the rest of the world is either unwilling or unable to resist us.

If you were a German or Italian would YOU want to fight us? No way! We're nuts!

[alittlelark]

7. How about if you were the Germans and Italians

and Russia, and China, and almost every other country on the Earth?

They know what's coming - they have a vested interest in it's avoidance.

Talks, I guarantee it, are already underway.

[yardwork]

9. As torturers know, there are ways to inflict pain without breaking bones

Suppose the European Union gangs up on the U.S. and makes it impossible for us to sell our goods in Europe and Asia? What would that do to our economy?

There are ways to "get back" at the U.S. that don't require military action. As long as the countries and corporations of the world can make money from partnering with the U.S., they will. If they decide it is no longer profitable to do so, we're toast.

I've been thinking a lot about that old 1970s movie "Rollerball." (Not the recent remake that sucked.) In the original movie the world is governed by corporations instead of governments.

[ronabop]

31. We didn't exactly know about the ovens before we attacked Germany.

We knew about the racial profiling (but in the US? never!)
We knew about "relocation" of peoples (but in the US? never!)
We knew about silencing of dissent and recording of dissenters (but in the US? never!)
We knew about a government gone wrong, using the media as a tool, not as an adversary (but in the US? never!)

We (in the US) didn't know about the gas chambers until it was too late. I hope the rest of the world wakes up, and sees that the path to gas chambers for "undesirables" is being repeated again... (in the US? never?)

-Bop

[Eye and Monkey]

32. It doesn't have to be a fight-fight - but trade might become very very

difficult. And as the deficit hawks soar on high...

Remind me - did the West ever fire a shot at the Soviet Union?

[MirrorAshes]

40. lol.

yeah, god only knows what those crazy americans will do.

[alittlelark]

5. Yes, and I am horrified and embarrased to say it.

The rest of the world will have no choice if Americans do not stand up and say "SHOVE IT" when B*sh and Diebold attempt to steal this election.

I cry for my country:cry:

[the_outsider]

10. the rest of the world is already uniting and forming economic coalitions

they are very very aware of the dangers of a unipolar hegemonic US administration. They will not start a direct or indirect war against USA because currently their economies are too tightly tied with US economy. First they will try to reduce their dependencies on US markets. The currency Euro will become more dominant, Japan will trade more with China and will start to depend more on China's growing consumer market rather than on stagnant/sagging US market, the large devloping BRIC (brazil, india, russia, china) will try to form relations and coalitions among them bypassing USA. US budget deficit and trade deficit with all major countries will continue to mount. With US economy isolated and no one to bail out by buying US treasuries and pumping money in US stock markets, the worst case scenario will be very bleak. A * second term will surely accelerate this and Kerry may just be able to reverse this.

[Disturbed]

16. When US Govt. freezes out...

other Capitalistic countries such as the US Neo Fascists are doing the other countries will form alliances to fight the US economicaly.

The major mistake Saddam made was announcing that he would sell Iraq's oil via the Euro-Dollar. That sealed his doom.

[crickets]

37. "The major mistake Saddam made

was announcing that he would sell Iraq's oil via the Euro-Dollar. That sealed his doom."

EXACTLY. And this is the story seldom or never told to the American public. (I didn't quite get your first sentence, but the second one came through loud and clear.)

The only way to fight the current US administration - without blowing all of us up, slow and brutal or reallyreally quick, whatever - is for other countries to refuse to have anything to do with us until sanity is restored. There are certain countries who will remain nameless who are, at this point, making fools of themselves. Apologies, MHO, *you know who you are*, damn who do I think I am saying this being American and all, ahem.

It's tempting to say, "Hello, world: as painful as this suggestion is, please refuse to do business with the US and declare all debts due until someone sane is in office. They're going to screw most us to the wall anyway, so there might as well be a point to the suffering. Thanks ever so."

The problem with the idea, beyond the devastation to our own economy, is the affect it would have on the world economy. The advantage would be to avoid the immediate physical bloodshed and destruction, especially if some delusional dickhead decides to push the pretty red button and make it permanent.

The question other countries must ask themselves is: Do we care about surviving to make a Euro-dollar (or whatever) another day? Or do we want another US dollar today and to hell with it?

Would this wake up the freepers? Uh, yes, I think it would. Would they learn anything besides who to hate next? "Will they ever willingly abandon this hegemonic crusade." Shake the Magic 8 Ball. At least people might wake up and stand up to the freeper counterparts in government and media for a change.

Yes, I know my naivete is on full blast. So is my pissed offedness about revisting the, "The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!" recurring nightmares from childhood. (Apologies to the everyday Russians and anyone else from the former USSR.) This time, WE are the bogeyman that keeps people lying awake at night. It pisses me off that I have trouble getting a decent night's sleep, so I can't imagine what it's like in Iraq, much less the short list of countries waiting to be bombed next. It is so WRONG.

"I am everyday people." -- Sly & the Family Stone

[jwirr]

17. I agree

and add one aspect of world power that we are forgetting. That deficit we owe is largely owed to other countries, especially Japan. We will either live up to our promises or we will have a depression that far outshines the Great Depression and it will be our own fault.

[the_outsider]

27. Yes, a couple of things could happen

Currently other countries buy out our deficit because they want to keep US $ strong against their own currencies. For them US is the largest export market and crucial for their economic growth. China pegs their currency against $ because a weaker yuan helps them to undercut US manufacturers. They do not mind buying US treasuries now. If this trend continues, over a period of time a couple of things will happen -

a) BRIC and probably EURO as well will continue to grow faster than US and their growth will provide alternative markets for each of them with US becoming less and less important as an export destination reducing the motivation to keep $ stronger

b) with all manufacturing/textile/low-end merchandise industry outsourced to China and knowledge/service based jobs outsourced to India, over a generation or two USA will totally lose its infrastructure to produce and build stuff again. Then other countries will not have to undercut US manufacturers because there won't be anyone left standing.

At that point, they will want the deficit repaid and there will be no way to do that. Of course, this is the worst case scenario and will probably not happen any time soon. But I wish during an election year, media and our leaders discussed these issues instead of Vietnam service records and fonts.

[DBoon]

13. They don't need any military ..

All the "rest of the world" has to do is stop financing the US balance of trade deficit. Stop buying US securities. Dump their existign securities for something offered in a currency backed by a saner set of global policies.

For OPEC to price oil in Euros instead of dollars would be the final act.

If the rest of the world doesn't like US military dominance, then the rest of the world should stop paying for it.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

22. Will a Boycott of Brand America be enough...

to bring the U.S. to it's knees?

Or will the U.S. start invading countries to blow up 'insurgent' cola manufacturers?

[sweetheart]

38. It'd be enough

If foreign sources did not buy dollars, the dollar would devalue
several times its current value in foreign paper... per dollar:
1 dollar == 5 euros or 500 yen or 4 poundssterling or 5000 won

With the devaluation, the cost of empire would bankrupt the federal
and the government would be forced, just like corporations are, to
cut back its expenditure radically to balance the books.
The military costs would become unbearable and have to be cut, as
well, the hegemonic power of the dollar would cause foreign holders,
to ditch the currency as a reserve, which would further weaken US
capability to control anything.

Without a strong dollar, there is no empire... and the weakening has
already begun at a scale inconceivable a few years ago... with the
dollar right now as we speak, overvalued by 20%, as investment
bankers cling to a lost washington consensus.

What will ultimately bring the US to its knees, however, is the
organizational failure of american culture to promote intelligence
(human), that the stupidest turds float to the top. Stupid
nations don't get breaks like forrest gump, they fall apart.

[Comadreja]

14. US troops not ready for equal match

The US military is so used to having unchallenged tactical superiority, fighting ragtag militias and guerillas, that one wonders how they would do when faced by technological equals for the first time since wwII.

[RivetJoint]

41. Like whom?

[movonne]

15. YES!!!

[Morning Dew]

18. Why would you encourage people . . .

to speculate on or cheerlead for the violent overthrow of the US government?

Maybe this is a serious thread topic, but it just hits me wrong.

[alittlelark]

24. If it hits you wrong

you may not have been paying attention - to the last 3 years.

And I saw nothing advocating a 'violent overthrow' of the US government.

I did read posts from those that advocated doing what our forefathers told us to do when confronted with tyrants.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

25. Violent?

I never suggested or cheer-lead for a violent solution. I just asked a question.

I would cheer-lead for a boycott personally. I think that the key to the American Empire is it's bases worldwide. If they become impossible to pay for then we may see a change of policy. This I think will only happen if Brand America is boycotted worldwide.

Not just Coke and Pepsi. But Boeing and Bechtel also.

It could start with consumers in Democracies and then move into government contracts awarded by politicians facing re-election in these countries.

I personally think Buscho is ready for violent retribution, but I don't think they have contingencies if the money well dries up.

[Morning Dew]

28. Oh, please...

Here's the Original post:

At what point should the rest of the world think seriously about forming its own coalition of the willing and stop the American war machine.

What will it take to wake up the vocal minority and freeper types. Will they ever willingly abandon this hegemonic crusade.

Will the threat of imminent attack be required when reason has failed.

and then:
---
I never suggested or cheer-lead for a violent solution. I just asked a question.
---

Sorry, I just felt it was a bait thread. If not, I apologise,

[SomthingsGotaGive]

29. I live in Canada and have often worried.

We live next door and refused to join our strongest ally in the world in Iraq.

We turned our backs on our Mother country Great Britain.

Australia our competitive sibling joined the coalition.

Why we didn't go is a question that eats me up.

We do not have the only functioning democracy of the countries mentioned. We were not privy to undisclosed intelligence.

So I worry that Canada chose sides in a future conflict by opting out of Iraq.

If this is a flame thread my only hope is to ascertain at what point the freeper types will abandon this current hegemonic ideology. And will it take a threat of attack or will their attitude remain 'bring it on'?

[jpgray]

20. I'd rather our citizens wake up and deal with our leaders properly.

We've ridden out war mongering imperialists before, we can do it again.

[Comadreja]

26. I'd like to know how?

We have to rely on Congress to do its duty in a case like this. If Congress is too compromised by all their corporate larceny, they are effectively bought off by the power brokers who really run things. So what is left to the people? Presidents don't leave by popular demand...Bush thinks God appointed him. Unless the oligarchs show him the door, the people are powerless. Fat, comfy Americans will never revolt. Forget it. They would rather feel secure than free.

Most people want security in this world, not liberty: Henry Louis Mencken: American journalist, 1880-1956

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security: Dwight David Eisenhower : 34th president of the United States, 1890-1969

I have named the destroyers of nations: comfort, plenty, and security - out of which grow a bored and slothful cynicism, in which rebellion against the world as it is, and myself as I am, are submerged in listless self-satisfaction : John Steinbeck: American novelist, Nobel Prize for Literature for 1962, 1902-1968

[gatorboy]

30. They are probably afraid that if they are too critical of Bush..

..He might very well invade them!

[grace0418]

33. We'll run out of people

Even if we draft every person who can walk, the U.S. has less than 300 million citizens. If the rest of the world got together to tell us to stop, I think 6 billion people could get the job done regardless of how big Bush thinks his balls are.

[T Bone]

34. When Britain leaves our side

they take a lot of intel with them. That should also be the final wake up call to all Americans that Bush has totally failed us. Of course it will be the wake up call that is far too late at that point.

[JSJ]

35. yes, and i'm looking forward to it nt

[951]

36. No because I don't believe others will work in OUR best interests

I'm all for the international communtity "stopping" the bush regime and their war crimes but thats as far as I'm willing to go.

[mopaul]

39. we seem incapable of stopping them

because half of us are hypnotized, so yes, it'd be greatly appreciated if someone would step in and topple our regime and let freedom reign, to quote the ape

[mmonk]

42. Eventually, they will

The European Union will be made into a counter balance.