After the election, will the Kerry administration have the courage

[mikehiggins]

to move against the media combines in this nation?

Of all the pernicious forces working against freedom and individual rights in the US, there are none as insidious as the allegedly "free press" which actually operates as an arm of the plutocracy in this nation.

At the very least the "equal time" requirements must be reinstated, the restrictions on market domination by combined ownership of press, radio and tv outlets and the requirement that some percentage of tv air time be reserved for public service broadcasting.

In many ways it'll be harder to do that than to straighten out the mess in Iraq but its a job that'll be much more important in terms of keeping the US at least nominally a free nation.

[Nimrod]

1. They'll have to do it quietly

Otherwise the rethugs will be completely outraged by the "censorship" and "attempts to control the media" and will probably try another impeachment. That's their media, dammit.

[robbedvoter]

2. No.

Kerry didn't even vote against the media consolidation Omnibus act - it's what allowed him not to be anihilated by the media in the primaries, like candidates who came against consolidation (Clark, Dean)

[Atlant]

3. No.

Kerry is a political coward, fully in bed with the Corporate Agenda.

Atlant

[BeFree]

5. Bullshit..

Kerry a political coward? Where the hell have you been hiding?

John Kerry is one of the bravest politicians we will ever know. Hell, he came back from VN and told congress that war was wrong! He fought against Iran Contra/Reagan, and is one reason we have so many progressive laws, due to his tenure as a Senator.


If he is in bed with the corporations, you can be assured he will be bootng them out, once elected. He has too, or you are doomed.

[Atlant]

7. If Kerry were not a political coward, he'd be doing far better than he is.

But you probably knew that already.

Atlant

[BeFree]

8. Reality

Look how the media has attacked him and allowed others access to attack him.

They still use the term flip-flop when all he has done is used his mind to think things through.

Kerry is a political wizard; as evidence note how the polls have him at 50%. Anyone else would have gone down the tubes already facing the onslaught Kerry has.

You say he's a coward..... can you back that up with proof or are ya just blowing it out your ass?

[Atlant]

10. My favorite example of Kerry cowardice...

> You say he's a coward..... can you back that up with proof or are ya just blowing it out your ass?

My favorite example of Kerry cowardice was several brave votes he
cast regarding "choice" in the run-up to the nomination. Oops! He
didn't vote! According to his office (who0m I called at the time
to complain), he was "too busy campaigning".

But IWR is another eample of Kerry cowardice. He was pretty gung-ho
on the war when he thought it would be the winning position, but he's
now adopted most of some other candidates' positions now that it's a
clear loser.

By the way, will you be swearing at me with every reply you post? It
kind of cheapens the force of your argumentation.

Atlant

[BeFree]

16. Cherry picking

Kerry has repeatedly stood for the right of a woman's choice. A missed vote in the Senate against another attack on that choice is not cowardice. The Supreme court has decided the position, and the Supreme's are the only one's who can change that decision.

Politics, being the art of the possible as it is, requires taking stances that enable you to be around when all is said and done. Being politically active means that you have the wisdom to make sure you are still a player when the action proceeds. Kerry's IWR vote was not an act of cowardice, it was a vote of political wisdom. Had he voted to allow Saddam to remain in power, he wouldn't be tied at 50% today.

I would say that you are the political coward, atlat, your use of inconsequential actions to assault our man Kerry, and continue to blow out your ass, so it seems, farts in the direction of a good, honest, brave politician like Kerry, are clear evidence of your cowardice.

[Atlant]

19. You haven't paid much attention to "choice"...

> The Supreme court has decided the position, and the Supreme's are the only one's who can change that decision.

If you believe this, I'd *STRONGLY* suggest you investigate some of
the brush wars that are being fought around the issue. The Religious
Right has many more ways of attacking choice than to stage a full-
frontal assualt on Roe v Wade at the Supreme Court, and these
attacks are steadily whittling-away at a woman's right to choose.


> I would say that you are the political coward, atlat, your use
> of inconsequential actions to assault our man Kerry, and continue
> to blow out your ass, so it seems, farts in the direction of a
> good, honest, brave politician like Kerry, are clear evidence of
> your cowardice.

I guess that answers my other question. :)


Atlant

[BeFree]

20. I have no choice

...but to describe your comments as nothing but farts.

So tell us, what were those votes on abortion and by how large of a margin did they pass or fail. IOW, would Kerry's vote have been a deciding factor in those votes?

We all know the anti-choice powers being brought against Choice. Your farts seem to be trying to make Kerry anti-choice. That stinks, and if you are brave enough, you'll admit it.

[Atlant]

21. Google them up yourself; I'm not your research assistant.

But if IIRC, one of them was *THE MAIN VOTE* on the "Partial Birth
Abortion Ban"; I'm sure you'll let me know if I'm wrong.

Atlant

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Atlant]

23. I told you where to look -- go look.

But I suppose it's safer to keep calling me names.

Atlant

[BeFree]

26. You go to

Kerry is the bravest, most profound person we have ever had run for president in this country. If anyone is cowardice, it is the people like you who will do anything, say anything, to undercut the progress he is attempting to make happen.

One man can not change America's course. It is up to a united concerted effort of willing and capable people to make the change we need.

Accept the responsibility for your actions, get with the program for change, and keep your farts to yourself. Thanks. We're done, you and I.

[Atlant]

27. I think this deserves memorialization:

I think this deserves memorialization:

> Kerry is the bravest, most profound person we have ever had run for president in this country.

Just so you can remember it later. ;)

Atlant

[Atlant]

12. These things show he's a target.

> Look how the media has attacked him and allowed others access to attack him.
>
>They still use the term flip-flop when all he has done is used
> his mind to think things through.

These things show that he's an effective target; they say nothing at
all about his political courage or lack thereof.

Atlant

[DenverDem]

4. The People must DEMAND IT in massive demonstations.

It is the first step to taking control of the country back from the corporations.

[Bread and Circus]

6. I agree. The consolidation of information in the hands of the corporations

contributes to the ignorance of the population.

We do have a democracy, the problem is that the populace is kept ignorant.

[porphyrian]

9. If he doesn't, we'll make him. - n/t

[Atlant]

11. You will have no leverage whatsoever to make him do anything. (NT)

[Selwynn]

14. You know what Atlant, then why are you here?

If we all have no leverage to do anything and blah blah blah, then what the fuck is your point? Why do you even bother posting? Are you bored? Why not just get the fuck out and run back over to People for Change and sit there and commiserate together about how horrible life is and how there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Meanwhile, we'll work.

[Atlant]

17. Instead of attacking me, why don't you explain what leverage you'll have?

*ALL* of your leverage ended when Kerry was nominated. Up to that
moment, you might have had some effect on what Kerry chose to do or
say. But now, it's all on auto-pilot either until November 3rd or
until very near the end of Kerry's first term.

While his policies may differ in some significant ways from Bush's
policies, at his heart, he is just as much a tool of the Corporate
Interests as Bush is. And media consolidation (which I believe was
what was being discussed in the original posting) is a fact now, and
really can't be undone easily by *ANY* administration. Any attempt
to do so will instantly run into a barrage of "illegal takings" and
"First Amendment" sorts of lawsuits, tying the whol effort up until
the media can do-in Kerry.

So I think the answer to the original question is very clear:

NO.

Rather than attacking me, perhaps you'll explain why I'm wrong?

Atlant

[Selwynn]

24. The same leverage that small groups of committed people have always had..

no more, no less. And it has always been enough.

[Atlant]

25. We'll have to agree to disagree; I see no evidence...

We'll have to agree to disagree; I see no evidence that you will
have any leverage upon Kerry to affect his positions vis-a-vis
the Corporate Media.

Atlant

[Selwynn]

30. The people always have leverage.

In the course of history in fact, it has been the only consistent leverage there has ever been.

But - I can agree with you to disagree, and we can leave it if you prefer. I apologize for my earlier outburst. I just grow weary of what I perceive as hopeless negativism and a seeming giddiness at the opportunity to express cynicism that I perceive from many on the left. I don't share any of that.

[Atlant]

34. Thank you.

> I apologize for my earlier outburst.

Thank you -- no worries!

Atlant

[Selwynn]

37. No, thank you for accepting :)

[Forkboy]

28. Um,dont you post over there regularly too?

[Atlant]

29. (Shhhh! Mentioning it was probably a way to get this thread locked.) (NT)

[Selwynn]

32. Nope.

I stoped posting there over four months ago, specifically becaue of the attitudes and mindset. I never had a post count out of the 200, and have only posted there on one thread this last week to address a specific issue, because I was specifically emailed about it.

Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts.

[Forkboy]

33. 200?

huh,I wonder what my measley 60 odd posts count as.

BTW,I really need a new toaster....could that be one of my parting gifts please?

[Selwynn]

36. Ironically ... I actually need a new toaster... :P

hehe

[Forkboy]

38. Well you aren't getting my parting gifts bub!

the toaster is mine...mine I tell you!

:)

[Arkana]

15. Seriously, why do you post?

If you want to bash Kerry, go to Freeperland. Kerry isn't perfect, and everyone here knows that.

I wasn't here for the primaries, but I know everyone had their own candidate, and it must have been really ugly. Now really isn't the time for ugliness. "You will have no leverage whatsoever to make him do anything?" But we do--that's the beauty of a democracy.

[Atlant]

18. What leverage do you have?

> But we do (have leverage)...

What leverage do you have? You can't with-hold your vote -- it's
already been given and can't be withdrawn (at least until 2008).
It doesn't matter if you with-hold contributions; same basic
rationale plus Kerry won't need your money anyway; if he's the
incumbent, he'll have plenty of corporate donations. Will you
stage massive protests? Good luck: here in America, International
ANSWER and UFPJ seem to be the only ones who have the correct
formula to get that done and you'll remember how unpopular
those two groups seem to be with Kerry supporters.

Seriously: What leverage will you have?

Atlant

[Selwynn]

13. No. They are coprorate-sponsored just like the other guy (Edit)

They are just kinder and gentler about it, and that's a start.


EDIT -- we really won't know how things will totally shape up until after Kerry is elected, but I will tell you this: we must have a same-party majority in both houses of congress to have a chance and any meaningful reform. If we don't have that, then it really doesn't matter much who is in the white house, except that with Kerry there I don't think we'll get ourselves into quite as many brazen foreign policy messes alone.

[hiphopnation]

31. Doubtful.

He wouldn't have the support or the cahones to make such a bold politcal move. But I think it's more important to focus on what he will do when he's elected, like to begin to restore our countries credibility and image abroad and to work toward getting the hell out of Iraq.

[Atlant]

35. Not Job #1? Maybe...

> But I think it's more important to focus on what he will do when
> he's elected, like to begin to restore our countries credibility
> and image abroad...

This is true, and he can probably be successful at doing this, but
if it's only the Guardian reporting positively on it, it won't
help Kerry in his political troubles at home. And we can be sure that
the Corporate Press and the Republicans are even now planning on Kerry
having *LOTS* of political troubles at home.

One might argue that, without a fair press, *ANY* Democratic President
would be just so much meat for the Right's grinder.

Atlant