I can't vote for Kerry because he believes in late-term abortions

[young_at_heart]

This was said to me today by a Sam's Club employee. She told me she wouldn't vote at all because both candidates were "bad". I tried to explain that Kerry believes that the woman and her doctor should make the decision, not the government, but in her black and white world.... "it's a sin". I left feeling very depressed.

[sandnsea]

1. Mother's health & life, pro-life

Although the whole partial-birth thing is manufactured, there's nothing in the bill to protect a woman's health or life. It's not a pro-life bill. That's why Kerry voted no, while the rest succumbed to the Christian Coalition propaganda.

[genius]

16. The bill would require the death of the mother to maintain the pregnancy

There is no way out for the mother when she would die if she did not have one.

[BOSSHOG]

2. Bush blathering last week said

Medical decisions should be between a doctor and a patient not the government and a patient. Keeping that big bad government out of such decisions. bush is right but would flip flop if abortion were specified. So the person at Sam's Club would rather have a President disregard human life after it is born. Lets be thankful that person isn't voting.

[shaolinmonkey]

3. What about aborting 18 year old kids in an unjustified war?

Is that also a sin?

[jdj]

15. I'd say that is a "partial life" abortion.

pass it on.

[Sugarbleus]

51. Bingo! That's what I say too.

Wrong war, badly executed, kills countless young men and women in uniform AND kills countless foreign children...!! What twisted thinking this abortion thing has become...it's not even biblical!

And what nonsense for someone to vote on ONE issue in a multi issue campaign. That's narrowminded and selfish, IMO Geeez!

[Robbie67]

4. hence the advent of the term "partial-birth" abortion

to make stupid people believe something that's not true

[Desertrose]

36. not true....amen to that!

the outright lies they tell...shame on them all!

[The empressof all]

5. There is really no explaining the thought process of these people

When I have the energy, I explore with them the various scenarios where a late term termination of pregnancy is a blessing. "Imagine your daughters life is at risk. If she continues with the pregnancy not only will she die, so will the fetus-Do you really believe a compassionate God wouldn't want us to choose life for the mother in this case?"

Most of the time it does fall on deaf ears but sometimes you come across an individual who hasn't really thought it out.

[Free2BMe]

6. This is a sad case of one issue voting (or not voting.) Don't be

depressed by it but we all should be aware of how simplistic people can be when it comes to voting. Unfortunately, I find most of this thinking gets more votes for gwb...

[mom cat]

7. At least she won't be voting for *.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

50. Or any other R candidate

As long as she and people like her stay home, it helps us get Democrats elected to all levels of government.

[Lars39]

8. Is she prepared to die during childbirth?

Is she prepared to raise her sister's/brother's kids? Is her husband prepared to raise the kids by himself? This is what I have started asking these folks.

[jedicord]

9. Clinton vetoed a similar bill during his term...

not just because there was no safeguard for the woman's health. It also had a provision in it that gave rights for the father and grandparents to sue the doctor and mother over the abortion. I'm not sure if this was included in the last one...

That ticked me off more than anything! Giving other people more rights over a woman's body than herself!:grr:

[prayin4rain]

10. How many times does the man have to explain it???!!!

Jeez, these people annoy me!!!

[DebJ]

11. My 77 yr old mom's response to this: no one is forced to have

an abortion. But Iraqi's....men, women, children, helpless infants, are intentionally being blown to bits, killed, maimed, every day, as are our own men, many fighting a war they do not believe in...and without proper gear.

Making abortion legal or illegal just means that legal sanctions would be taken against a woman who has an abortion...as women have done throughout time regardless of the legality.
Abortions have increased under Bush, and the world despises his refusal to put money into condom programs to prevent unwanted pregnancies overseas...everyone is just supposed to say no, and to hell with those who don't...to hell with the unwanted children and the suffering they face.
And hey, guess what....I don't like abortion, either.
But legal abortion does not MANDATE abortion. WAR MANDATES DEATH.

[ogsball]

12. Kerry is against abortion

He said so in the debates. He is guided by his Roman Catholic faith and considers abortion wrong. He just doesn't think it should be illegal.

BTW unless you are actively working for the rights of single mothers and unwed mothers then you have no credibility in pushing for laws against the practice.

[young_at_heart]

13. That is exactly what I said to her

I also told her to go on the Internet and do some research and I told her about DU. The thing that seemed to impress her the most was when I said, "In my 65 years I have never felt so strongly about an election as this one".

[auburngrad82]

14. Pro Choice isn't the same as Pro Abortion

You can be against abortion on a personal level and still believe that the government has no right to legislate reproductive rights, especially when the health of the woman is at risk.

Why is it that right-wingers are always talking about "smaller government", "states rights", etc yet they want MORE federal control when it comes to abortion and gay marriage?

[gracewriter]

24. Pro Choice isn't the same as Pro Abortion

well said!!!

[newyawker99]

25. Hi gracewriter!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[SemperEadem]

43. because they fully embody the concept of flip-flopping

repugs are notorious flip-floppers... they are supposed to be the party of less government, but all that they espouse requires more governmental intrusion into the private lives of We The People.

They are the party of the consumate liar... it comes as naturally as drawing the next breath to utter their lies.

[DuaneBidoux]

17. Hey count this a victory

An anti-abortion true believer who can't bring herself to vote for Bush. I consider that great. Hope there are many more like her.

[cubsfan forever]

18. Good point! n/t

Professor 2

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Ask her if she'd be willing to die to avoid one.

Even if she was all tidily married and did all the right (healthy) things, pregnancy can be life threatening to the mother.

The idiotic idea that women are waiting until their 6-9 months pregnant to have an "abortion of convenience" is ludicrous on the face of it.

[young_at_heart]

21. I told her that it was VERY rare but she said "You'd be surprised"

That's when I decided to give up the conversation.....the good news was that she decided not to vote at all. I am so angry at the Bible thumpers for making this an issue!

[SemperEadem]

45. I'd have told her that she is woefully misinformed

In the first place, why is she sticking her nose in someone else's business if she doesn't want her tax money going to pay for the welfare and care of that child once it's breathing air? Does she not trust God enough to do His job in His own time, or does she have that much unbridled pride that she feels she and other like myrmidons can do a better job at being God than God?

[Virginian]

20. I have a question about this.

I think I read that Kerry voted against the ban on "Partial Birth" abortions because the bill did not have a clause in it to protect the life of the mother.

Does that mean that if the clause had been in the bill he would have voted for it?
I am not sure he would have. It still invades the privacy between the woman and her doctor.

[onenote]

23. to be completely accurate

The "partial birth" abortion bill does contain an exception for procedures that are "necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself."

The problem is that it doesn't have an exception for the "health" of the mother. In fact, if you read the first dozen or so pages of the bill, it is a litany of Congressional findings that partial birth abortion is "never medically indicated" to preserve the health of the mother. Now, apart from the freakin' absurdity of Congress deciding that it knows more about medicine than the medical community and, therefore, deciding to "find" that the earth is flat or up is down, its pretty damn hard to square up a finding that says partial birth abortion is never a threat to a mother's health, but oh, by the way, the provision doesn't apply if it might kill the mother.

The internal inconsistency of the provision is reason enough for Kerry to have voted against it.

onenote

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/abortion/2003s3.pdf

[Virginian]

49. Thank you onenote

That makes sense.

[Anakin Skywalker]

22. *sigh*

You said exactly the right thing. Too bad people like that woman are not thinking, but going by what they were TOLD. Yeah, I get depressed too whenever I have such exchanges. Too many emotional people of her type out there :(

[WLKjr]

26. There are a lot of people I work with that proudly say they aren't voting

at work (guess), they act very proud when they say that and I just laugh and tell them they are part the reason things are fucked up and that they are idiots for not voting at least this time around. When I say this, I mean there are a lot of people I know that won't vote becuase they think its a badge of honor when it's so imature and adolescent of them.

[hippiegranny]

28. maybe it is better they don't vote,

because if that is their attitude, they obviously aren't paying attention. And the likelihood they would buy into the MediaWhore spin and vote Booosh is too great to chance it.

[WLKjr]

31. These people are really a bunch of idiots

It shocks me at how ignorant they are of what is going on.

Here's a great example. Someone told me that they would not vote for Ben Konop becuase he hasn't lived in the area that long (Ada OH for 9 months, originally from Toledo OH, still in the 4th district mind you as is Ada. She said Oxley is better becuase he has lived here longer (Findlay OH) but here's the catch.......wait for it.........wait for it....


I don't think Oxley has lived in Ohio in like 11 years. He's always in France or McClain VA. No joke.

The other day at the Edwards Rally in Lima, OH, Oxley was asked to come and speak, hell, even the Republican? Mayor of Lima came to speak, said it was great to see the town so motivated and that it excited him. Konop was there, and when it was time for Oxley to speak(he wasn't there obviously) they just announced that 'no show' was a no show again, typical of Oxley.

That is the way people think around here. they do not read into anything at all and it's frustrating as hell. I can't stand running into people like that becuase I actually try to inform them and tell them where they can find the information so they can make thier own decisions.

[baldguy]

27. Google images for "dead iraq child"

and multiply by about 10000. Does that count as a sin?



Thank you George.

[dddem]

29. First of all...

Tell this person that nobody "believes" in abortion - it's not like the Easter Bunny.
Kerry supports a woman's right to choose. Very simple. If a woman chooses abortion, that's between her and God.

Secondly, What were you doing at a Sam's club anyway? Shop Costco.!;-)

[young_at_heart]

37. I was trying to find the cheapest Zocor for my husband

We don't have Costco in Asheville and Sam's Club was the cheapest I could find....$366.49 for 90 tablets! I NEVER shop at Walmart and only go to Sam's for prescriptions.

[brook]

48. Have you looked into...

getting your Zocor from Canada? I have friends who get their meds at a much lower price than available here. You need a prescription from your doctor - and a good insurance agent who handles your health policy will help you find a reliable Canadian firm to deal with as well as handle the original paper work. 90 5 mg. @ $115-124 - and similar savings on 10mg., etc. It's really the way to go.

[WLKjr]

40. Sometimes I think they try to endoctrinate employees

with Republican Ideolouges, IMO

[Djinn]

30. I can't help thinking if people are that

clueless it's probably best they don't vote.

[Wind Dancer]

32. I know your frustration!

I have been beating my head against the wall with the "one issue" voting fundies, it's left me so frustrated and angry, I give up. NC has been infiltrated with these faith-based family groups, you can't get through to the "One World Order" bunch, they have an answer for everything.

They are waiting for the rapture, believe * is chosen by God and are extremely dangerous.

[SemperEadem]

47. One thing I've noticed during my move from L.A. to St. Louis was that

religion is huge bu$ine$$ in these parts... Money changers everywhere and no one seems to have a problem with it.

[Autobot77]

33. Next time try to reframe the arguement

I recommend reading George Lakoff's "Don't Think of an Elephant" Next time a conservative mentions abortion ask them:
"Do you think the government should be able to tell you what to do with your body?"

[OutsourceBush]

34. Republicans are PRO-INCEST

[OutsourceBush]

35. Republicans are PRO-RAPE

[chefgirl]

38. The way I see it

The Republicans have now made it illegal for me to save my life, if need be, by opting for a late term abortion. Kerry voted against denying ME the right to life. I have NO argument with that.

I just had this same discussion with someone yesterday and that was the position I took. The discussion didn't last very long.

-chef-

[ignatius 2]

39. I can't vote for Bush because he believe in coat hangers in the alley

and bleeding young poor girls with their insides ripped out because their daddy can't pay for a trip to the abortionist in Mexico.

I can't vote for Bush because he starts unnecessary wars that have killed over 1100 young Americans, injured and maimed 8,000 more and killed over 13,000 innocent civilians including children.

He uses abortion as a wedge and sadly it works. Morally, he could care less, it is just something Rove told him to do just like using gay marriage to shore up his intolerant, hate mongering base.

[Hello_Kitty]

Well at least she's not voting for *

[Crowdance]

41. "Anti-abortionists kill women"

That's a sign I'm having made up to carry. I'll bring it out every time someone says something stupid like this....

[grannylib]

42. Pro-war is not pro-life. Pro-death penalty is not pro-life. Pro-pollution,

especially mercury in our air and water, is not pro-life.
Dropping depleted uranium bombs on innocent Iraqi civilians is not pro-life, and it's not supportive of our troops to have them guarding contaminated sites without telling them of the danger of the radiation there.

Damn, I wish some people were not so brainwashed into thinking that just one issue or another is all that matters.
Morality encompasses much more than sexual behavior or its consequences, or religious belief and practice.

Economic choices are moral issues. Peace is a moral issue. Corporate scandal and thievery are moral issues. The bearing of false witness is a moral issue (hear that, Swiftie Liars?)

[dave502d]

44. abortions:I think it up to the women.

When i was a kid,i remember people talking about back ally and coat hanger.Now if we over turn the abortions law.What do we do than,lock
the womens and doctors up or put them to death.If this makes anyone
mad,I'm sorry.

[sangh0]

46. Don't be depressed!

She's not going to vote!!!

[SillyGoose]

52. Rightwingnuts are hypocrites.

My SIL is one of these rightwing nuts who absolutely drives my crazy with her nonsense talk about how its vitally important not to vote for Kerry because he is "pro-death" and the catholic bishops say not to vote for him because of this. First of all, she is all for this Iraq invasion but she doesn't want to discuss the fact that the Vatican was 100% against the Iraq war. Then if you ask her how the hell she could call herself pro-life when she is advocating the murder of thousands of innocent Iraqis, many of whom are children, she says they would have died anyway if Saddam was left in power so its acceptable. These people disgust me. :puke:

7 days to go so we can tell these ringwingnuts to SHOVE IT!!

[MsTryska]

53. Can we please stop calling it a "Partial Birth" Abortion?

and call it a late-term abortion because that's what it is?

can we also please stop calling it a "death tax" because it's a an estate tax.


And let's get rid of Marriage Penalty, while we're at it too.

[libertad]

54. at least she's not voting at all.