They were freaking out over "Cracker" in the office today in GA

[Must_B_Free]

Very interesting. Georgians are people who are trained to live in complete denial. "Don't say that!" they implored. Donna Brazille called George Bush a "Southern Cracker" in 2000. Funny that they don't mind calling northerners Yankees, but they don't want the same treatment

The origin is from "whip cracker"; i.e. slave holders.

This is also the state with a restaurant that gave it's (white only) customers a pick axe handle with which to beat any people of color that might attempt to enter the establishment.

Interestingly, "Yankee" was a british term of american derision until we kicked their arses. Then it turned into a proud way to deride British, by endearing the term.

[whalerider55]

1. must-

wasn't the owner of that little cafe the once and future governor of Georgia, Lester Maddox?

ahh, the good old days, when racists didn't wear suits and republicans didn't wear jeans.

whalerider55

[livinginphotographs]

3. And wasn't one of the members of Maddox's administration

a certain Zell Miller?

Things that make you go hmmm....

[CottonBear]

5. Do ya'll remember J.B Stoner?

He is (was?) a perennial racist, unreconstructed-confederate candiate in GA elections. He had these tv ads where he appeared in a white suit in front of a confederate flag backdrop, all the while spewing vile messages. I saw those ads as a grade school kid and I'll never forget them.

[JPJones]

6. Here's Zell's buddy with his signature pick handle

[deadmessengers]

2. Pickaxes

It's interesting that you would mention the pickaxe handles. The owner of that restaurant was a man named Lester Maddox, who, after closing the restaurant rather than integrate by court order, went on to serve a term as Governor, succeeded in 1971 by none other than Jimmy Carter.

[On the Road]

4. I Never Knew the Origin of "Cracker"

Thanks for mentioning that.

Or that "Yankee" was derogatory, for that matter. Although that connotation is picked up in the song "Yankee Doodle Dandy."

[Must_B_Free]

7. The British originally sang Yankee Doodle

to deride their dissheveled war partners.

Macaroni = a fancy, dandy lad.

Then when we kicked their ass, we sang it back to them to deride them.

[immoderate]

9. Reminds me of the laundered version

of "Yankee Doodle" that we sang in elementary school. About third grade.

The line: "Yankee Doodle keep it up" became: "Yankee Doodle Ha Ha Ha"

And we couldn't have Yankee Doodle being "handy" with the girls, so they told us to sing "boys." They wouldn't do that today, I bet.

--IMM

[baldguy]

8. Maybe we could throw them at duhbya when he leaves.

[RevCheesehead]

19. Oh, no, pretzels fly better!

And they go better with beer! :toast:

[GarySeven]

10. Yankee fits you perfectly

Go ahead - keep alienating the South. Do your master Rove's bidding. Keep on separating yourself from all the liberals who struggle down here; who keep on struggling down here to protect the civil liberties you enjoy; who keep on struggling without your help because you treat us like shit.

Go Cheney yourself. You make Karl Rove proud.

[Must_B_Free]

11. Why are you alienating me?

You make Karl Rove proud.

[Touchdown]

15. Oh' cry me a river!

Touchy, touchy! I live in a red state as well. I'm not bitching about anybody saying "we can't win Colorado" even though Kerry is up by 2 pts here. I swear you southerners have the thinnest skin. The rest of America was right to call us "The HATE STATE" when too many idiots voted in Amendment 2. Overcome your region's less than beautiful legacies, and get over it. "Look Away" is not a good mantra, no matter where you live.

here's a clue...it's not all about you.:eyes:

[DemBones DemBones]

12. I looked up "cracker" and here's what I found:

There must be something in the air. Yours is the second letter I've gotten recently on the subject of racial insults. Back in the 1700s, cracker was a derogatory term used by American whites to describe poor Southerners of their own race. Since then, its meaning has become more generalized and it is often used by blacks to describe whites, especially racist whites. However, the word still retains the flavor of Southern poverty.

Its history is far less clear. You can find the word as far back as Shakespeare. In The Life and Death of King John, Philip the Bastard calls the Duke of Austria an ass (another insult that's been around a while.) The duke responds by saying, "What cracker is this same that deafs our ears with this abundance of superfluous breath?" In this sense, a cracker is a loudmouth and boastful person. Similar instances of this word used about Southerners can be found in literature of colonial America.

<snip>

While there are other colorful ideas about the roots of this word (cracking whips, white people's resemblance to Saltine crackers, etc.), they have less support from the academic community.


Doesn't look like there's much credence for your definition of the term,

"Cracker" can definitely be used as an insult, same as "white trash" though whites may use it of themselves, just as blacks may call themselves "nigger" without that being considered offensive.

I've never thought of "Yankee" as an insult, though. "Damn Yankee," maybe. . .

What about trying this: you stop calling them crackers and ask them to stop calling you a Yankee? Of course, if you're also telling them they're wrong to like sweet tea or grits or to have a Southern accent -- things which many Northerners do when living or visiting in the South -- they may tell you to go to hell.

P.S. Lester Maddox is long dead and his restaurant long closed.

[Must_B_Free]

14. Check wikipedia on both terms

Yankee has in interesting history that sheds light on reappropriation of terms like with the "N" word.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. I still think the best solution is for you to stop calling them names and

then request that they not call you Yankee. You seem to have gone on the offensive against your co-workers. Don't tell me they called you a Yankee first because I don't think it's in the same league of insults and I think most Southerners will stop using the term if they're asked in a spirit of friendship.

You wouldn't go to Mexico and call Mexican people "spics," would you? Or go to Mexico and complain that you hate all food involving tortillas, onions, or tomatoes?
Or complain about Mexicans' lack of fluency in English?

Yet you are in the South, insulting Southerners. . . As I suggested earlier, you may be like other Northerners who diss sweet tea and grits, laugh at Southern accents, etc., and then wonder why they get called damnyankees! Bringing up Lester Maddox and his pickax handle is going back a long way to try to justify your antipathy towards the people you now live and work among.

If you're that unhappy in Georgia, Delta is ready when you are. You can be back wherever you came from in a couple of hours.

[Must_B_Free]

20. Still pushing for separatism, huh?

Go back where you came from?

and what about blacks? WHat did they do to get called the names they are called here?

How about I'll come here whenever I want and say whatever I want. And, thank you very much, I'll be glad to have my Cherokee land back. You can leave the trail of tears this time, Roswell...

[DemBones DemBones]

22. So would you go to Mexico and call Mexicans "spics"? Because that IS

what you are doing.

Pushing for separatism? I just suggested YOU might be happier back in your original home since you obviously aren't happy in Georgia.

[Must_B_Free]

23. Oh really?

Did Mexicans "Spic" their whips at their slaves?

No - What I resent is the pride that Georgians take in their racism and separatism. They are arrogant about it. Just listen to The Steve and Vicki Show. "Oh Bobby Brown got arrested again" (as if to say "Those blacks are ALL no good, just like Bobby Brown")

I wish they would come to grips with their racism and get over it. I can't stand the attitude and the snickering and the pride they take in evil, as they try to purport that they are pious.

And it's not just their crimes against blacks, but also their theft of Cherokee county from the Native Americans. Their history is full of mean spirited caucasians "having their way" from Roswell King to Newt Gingrich.

Is it any wonder they got rid of the hate crimes law?

Oh - and by the way I didn't use he word. A Canuck said she had just learned this word and was trying to remember it- the locals in the office were like "Oh no!". So no, I don't go around calling people cracker. I just find it funny that people can't handle what they so amply dish out.

[DemBones DemBones]

25. People have told you the term "cracker" is offensive so why would you

justify using an offensive term? White Southerners are tired of being depicted as "rednecks," "hicks," crackers," "white trash," etc. You have come to live in the South so it's hardly cool to insult the natives here, anymore than it would be cool to insult Mexicans in Mexico, or Europeans in Europe. Some American tourists operate that way and cause problems for the rest of us. There are good people here in Georgia and if you come up against any real racists, you have the opportunity to help change them.

I don't listen to the Steve and Vickie show, don't even know who they are, but I'm guessing drivetime radio show? (I listen to tapes in my car, never radio.) Maybe the latest on 96Rock? Those shows are always pretty tasteless but surely it's possible they make fun of Bobby Brown because he gets arrested a lot rather than because he's black? I've heard Bobby Brown joked about on national television more than a few times, without any controversy developing. Personally, I don't think it's funny to joke about anyone being arrested unless the arrested person has bragged about how moral and upright he is, so I object to the jokes on general principles whether or not there's any racial implication intended.

The racism of the past, against Native Americans as well as blacks, was a terrible thing, but all of this country was guilty of that racism. Native Americans were treated horribly everywhere, and often still are. Slavery benefited the textile industry of the North as much as the cotton farmers of the South, with the mill owners being able to benefit but not be stigmatized by their connection to slavery Once slavery ended, the mill owners moved their operations South to take advantage of the cheap labor here, the poor whites as much as the poor blacks. At bottom, all these struggles are about the rich retaining privilege and power. No one alive today is responsible for any of the wrongs of the past, either.

The South has changed a lot since Jim Crow days. I remember those days well and have lived in the South enough (seven states over the years) that I've seen the changes myself. I also know that there was widespread de facto segregation and racism in the North.

In my view, either we go forward together or we slide backwards while throwing rocks at each other.

[Must_B_Free]

26. Separatism is a point of pride

True, Atlanta has a veneer of progressives, but underneath the "wanna be california" facade is an ugly truth - an elephant in the livingroom that no one mentions.

The truth is that there is a resentment of losing separatism and thus you have confederate flags and the hatred that Newt Gingrich and Bush have effectively tapped into. It's a subltle, good ole boy "wink and a nod" racism.

You can deny it, but it will still be a problem. Only by bringing it out and confronting it will we get over it.

Perhaps if you listened to Steve and Vicki you'd hear what I am talking about. They are very disgusting Vicki tried to be the good cop and Steve is the bad cop, representing the true internalized hatred of many Georgians. I believe it is on 96 rock.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Well, that's the problem. The crackers lost. And are still losers.

On edit.

OK. That was a little mean. But as my definition of cracker is ignorant racist redneck, I have to hold with them being losers.

Not to infer that all, most, or even a large minority of Georgians fit that definition.

Speaking as a yankee atheist jew.

[mitchum]

16. But Georgia IS filled with crackers!

I grew up in SC, lived all over, and have been living in GA for 3 years and have definitely come to the conclusion that rednecks in GA are...well...more...redneck than the SC variety. I guess Charleston had more of an influence over the rest of SC, than Savannah did over the rest of GA. Or maybe it's the difference in origins as a royal colony versus penal colony. Who knows?

[napi21]

21. I'm surprised at your conclusion. I also lived in SC and Ga.

I lived in the upstate of SC in Greer, between Greenville & Spartanburg. There were some real serious rednecks there.

Lived in Ga, about 45 mins north of the airport off 985. Although there are still some real strong anti black and anti hispanic attitudes, they don't seem as bad as those in SC.

I still remember refusing to go to work one saturday because there was going to be a KKK rally just dow the road from my office, and I just didn't want to be anywhere near that! Sure haven't seen anything like that here in Ga.

[mitchum]

24. Surprised me also!

I never thought that I would rank SC above anywhere. Seriously, I know a lot of progressives in GA and live in the most liberal city in the state, but when I'm just a few miles outside, I often feel that I am truly in Flannery O'Connorland. I think what most freaks me out is people's enthusiatic willingness to talk about your presumed acceptance of JAYSUS (as if it were a foregone conclusion) And of course this JAYSUS is uneasy with anything "different"
But I don't doubt your impressions of Greer. I have had the pleasure of encountering some of its citizens

[mitchum]

17. Actually "cracker" is a reference to the whip used by drovers in...

southern Georgia and northern Florida