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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:11 PM
Original message
Predicted rise of Millennial Generation arrives in the NICK OF TIME!
In 1992, Strauss and Howe predicted in their book 'Generations' that the more conservative Generation X would be followed by an activist progressive Millennial Generation (born 1982-2002). They would become the new leaders, the Washingtons and Jeffersons of a second American Revolution overthrowing corporatism. The Battle of Seattle to the WTO demos to the pre-Iraq War to the Dean Generation to the huge Kerry crowds are all lifted up by the Millennials.
In 2000, hardly any Millennials were eligible to vote. This year there are 15 million of them old enough. The 87% registration rate among students and the 60% to 33% vote for Kerry means the Millennials are here! But that's just the beginning. This country is going to go so far to the left you won't recognize it! In 2008, there will be 30 million Millennials eligible to vote.

In 2012, there will be 45 million Millennials!

In 2016, there will be 60 million Millennials!

In 2020, there will be 75 million Millennials!

It's a Generation X Sandwich, between the Millennials and their Boomer parents!

I remember seeing Howe on Donahue in '96 predicting the rise of the Millennials

NOW THEY HAVE ARRIVED IN THE NICK OF TIME TO SAVE THE WORLD FROM A BUSH DICTATORSHIP! IS THIS A HOLLYWOOD ENDING OR WHAT??
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. I hope so.
My neices' generation (born in the '80s) seems so much hipper and smarter than mine. I was born in 1966 and there are too many Republicans, Reagan fans, and golfers amongst them (sorry golfers!).
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SeanQ Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Interesting
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. ROFL ... I love your sig pic!
:toast:

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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Read the Future of Man by Teilhard de Chardin
particularly the last 2 thirds of the book

His discovery of reverse entropy is the greatest discovery of the 20th Century.

Sorry Albert, E=MC squared comes second...

How do you like the REVERSE ENTROPY of this election so far??
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
34. kick
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:16 PM
Original message
I'm a millenial and I hope to become a higly active player....
in our system someday!

Also, I vote too, in EVERY election!!!
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susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. I love the Strauss and Howe books.
Especially "The Fourth Turning." And I, too, hope they are right.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. I was thinking along these lines just last night
Or rather - "hoping" along this line. Thanks for the heads up. Thanks for posting about the authors. Anyhow, here's a link to their book that I'd never heard about. http://www.fourthturning.com/
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Interesting book
We Boomers are also referred to as Prophets.

This from the book:

"Sometime around the year 2005, perhaps a few years before or after America will enter the Fourth Turning."

A few senarios are listed that could bring about the Crisis

This one is particularly chilling:

"A global terrorist group blows up an aircraft and announces it possess portable nuclear weapons. The US and its Allies launch a preemptive strike, THe terrorists threaten to retaliate against an American city. Congress declares war and authorizes unlimited house to house searches. Opponents charge that the president concocted the emergency for po;itical purposes. A nationwide strike is delcared. Foreign capital flees the United States"

Pretty amazing stuff particularly since the book was written 4 years before 9/11.

MzPip
:dem:

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great to see the Millenials coming along to help us aging Boomers who
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 12:24 PM by KoKo01
were out there for Dean/Kucinich with you all! :hippie:

Generation X has been missing in this...so glad the "Millenials are going to "carry the torch."

From what I've observed in all the campaign activities and protests I've been to it's been the "20 to very early somethings" and the "older wing of the Boomers who were born closer to WWII than the later group who have been out there handing out flyers marching against Iraq Invasion and urging people to get active and get out the vote.

It's the mid thirty somethings through about mid-forties that seem to be missing. (not that there are folks here on DU and out there who are active...but it's not the numbers I see in the "greying hairs" and "the under 35" crowd.

Plus, you would believe the folks I'm seeing who are "active" for Dems in the 65 and over crowd. Showing up to vote in a wheel chair from a Nursing home is not something to be overlooked! They know what a mess the Bushies have made of America and they don't want to see the accomplishments in social programs in this country go down the tubes before they "pass on."

Thanks for the post.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Great, more Gen X bashing.
Do you realize that demographically there are almost 4 boomers to every Gen Xer? Perhaps that's why we've been "missing." Or maybe we're really just a bunch of lazy slackers waiting for the Millenials to save us all :)
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. THere are Progressive Gen Xers
Look at the polling 30-44. Most Republican voters of all.

Nothing personal!
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Zing Zing Zingbah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. I have no idea what generation I belong to.
I was born in 1979. My husband was born in 1977.
Our son will be 18 in 2020 (for right now he's still in diapers). I guess he would be considered a millennial, if that's still what they are calling it by then.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Nah...I said there are "active exceptions" here on DU and out there...
and maybe the "numbers" are the factor but I know Gen X'ers and they do seem "quieter" about expressing themselves. Maybe it was their parents who turned them off because of their own activism.

It's not a judgement ...it's an observation. And not meant as a diss...
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BamaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. Thank you
And let's not forget that we are in this mess because of a Boomer president and Boomer controlled Congress. Geesh, I'm grown and still the scourge of society lol. Those idiot repug pundits and hate mongers are mostly Boomers. You haven't heard from Gen X because we can't get a word in edgewise lol!

I like Straus and Howe. I enjoyed their books and they made some good observations, but the Millenials down here are not part of some great liberal movement. We are still going to have the Conservative South problem in 20 years.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. One would hope. However, I see a lot of LABEL slaves out there.
Young people who take on the hip 'look' as marketed by corporate designers--Disel, etc. Do they REALLY have any idea how the world works? I know a lot of 20-somethings and I love them a lot. But, as a whole, they are CLUELESS. They do not READ; their information mostly comes from film and video. Ready or not, the torch IS being passed to them.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. I hope your're right about our country moving to the left.
But as a Gen Xer I'm irritated at this prosepect that they are going to "save the world." This sounds to me like a repeat of the boomers' immense narcissism. I reject the idea that Gen X is somehow more conservative and I'd like to point out the often ignored fact that there are only 19 million or so of us. Obviously that large demographic difference didn't leave Gen X with much political power and didn't allow the formation of the kind of large youth movements that the boomers are always pining for.

But anyway, here's hoping these demographic shifts do move the country to the left.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Both the Boomers and the Millennials have the save the world syndrome
It's just that the Generation Cycle led to the rise of Reagan and full-blown corporatism and so the Boomers failed. Now the pendulum swings all the way the other way and the Generation Sandwich defeats the conservatives for decades.

So the Millennials and the Boomers do save the world after all.
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awgoodkitty Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. As a Gen X'er...
I am confused as to how my generation led to the rise of Reagan. If Gen X'ers begin at 1963 or 1964, the oldest of us wouldn't have been old enough to vote in 1980. Somebody voted for Reagan. Wasn't us.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'm a Gen X'er, too
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 12:51 PM by BattyDem
I'm certainly not conservative ... but there are exceptions to every rule. ;-)

You're right, I don't know how Gen X is responsible for Reagan. We're too young. :shrug:


But I do believe that it goes in cycles .. and the "liberal" cycle is scheduled to begin. Once the pendulum swings as far as it can go to one side, it will inevitably swing bang.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. The first Gen Xers were18 in 1980 according to the theory
Then they arrived in force and kept the Conservative Backlash going and going and going...
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. So that means Gen X began in 1962 ...
That's the earliest date I've ever heard for Gen X ... but it makes sense. :-)

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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I don't get it either
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 12:51 PM by Blasphemer
And, I think the almost 20 year span for the generations is way too big. There is a HUGE difference between someone born in '63/'64 and someone born in '80/'81. Up until the Presidential race got going, they were reporting a conservative shift among college students (born what between '82 and '86) - but the political climate changed and now they're not conservative anymore. Young people are generally reactionaries. I don't think a generation can really be branded one way or another without taking into consideration world events. As teenager/college student in the early 90's, we weren't protesting illegal wars but at the time we were given credit for being a big part of Clinton's victory in '92.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Thanks....I love looking at it that way! (n/t)
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. I beg to disagree
I read the entire book and posted on this subject a few weeks ago. I got about 3 posts and it died. The Gen X'ers are the "Nomad" generation. Think "Han Solo". These are who were basically on their own growing up. They are tough and pragmatic and can be depended on to come through in a crisis situation.
They are sandwiched between the prophet generation (boomers)and the hero generation (millenials)

According to the book the passions of aging prophets can lead to extremism in carryingout their goals or responding to a threat. The
young heroes will generally follow the lead of the prophets.
The Nomads are the ones who do the shitass jobs no one else can or will do. They do it without complaining and with little expectation of reward from either of the other generations. The nomads can temper the extremism of the prophets and may save us all in the end.

{P.s. I am a boomer)
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. Point Well Taken NT
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. boomers, gen-x'ers, millennials ... oh my !!
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 12:59 PM by welshTerrier2
first, i think there's been a real hunger among us boomers to find some "fresh troops" coming up to reinforce our ranks ... it was a real shock to me as gen-x'ers first entered the workforce to find myself working with younger people who were often very conservative in their political views ...

i really think that a significant cause of this generational divide was the right's successful effort to show gen-x'ers that the boomers were going to suck up every penny they were paying into Social Security and there wouldn't be anything left for them ... it's a very simple divide and conquer technique ... gen-x'ers should have realized that boomers were not their enemies ... the real enemy was the corporate state and Reagan's insane defense build-up and its resultant massive budget deficits ... i haven't given up on gen-x'ers yet ... i hope they come to understand just who the real enemy is ...

comment two: what has always been necessary for a real leftist movement is a unity between workers and students ... too many boomers have rejected the labor movement ... many white collar boomers with high incomes have chosen to "go it alone" ... students who came of age during the Vietnam war and "Archie Bunker" union workers were driven apart by Nixon's clever divide and conquer strategy ... the promise that could have been realized with the social unrest of the 60's had no chance of success once this wedge was driven between students and union workers ... again, both groups failed to realize their common interests in providing more power to citizens than to the corporate state ...

the point of all this is that aging boomers need to actively make a connection to the Millennial generation ... we need to come to them as teachers and friends ... we need to form grassroots groups that include them ... in the union of the generations, in the union of students and workers, in the union of individuals against the corporate state, we will have a future that holds some hope for all of us ...
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Agree....and a nice post inspite of the first reply....
:D I agree with you....having observed what you say and enjoying all the Millenial activism. We can learn from each other...How much better can it get when the young and old can talk to each other and work together for the future.
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retread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. uhhhh-chimpy is a boomer!! In 1972 the "youth" vote went
for Nixon. If today's young people vote consistently left/liberal, they will be the first in my lifetime and I am a "boomer".
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. Gen-X sandwich?
This generational labeling shit is no more accurate than the horoscope. My "generation" is as diverse as a population can get. For anyone to call us "more conservative," one has to make a number of false assumptions, most of them ignorant. Only "Boomers" have this narcissistic need to identify with a "generation," and the rest is projection. Other people see generation in relation to members of a family, not as a political movement. Get the fuck over yourselves already.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. This is just polling and demographics
30-44 is the most Republican group consistently in polling and 18-24 year olds the most progressive.

But there are millions of rabid Bush Millennials and millions of Progressive Gen Xers.

Polling reveals the difference, not astrology.

It's not either/or, black and white. It's trends among generations.

You must admit there was a "Generation Gap" in the 1960s, no??
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You must believe polling to be more accurate than astrology.
If polling were done solely by scientists with pure motives, I might believe that as well. However, knowing what I do about polling, I really don't think there is much difference between polling data and astrology.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. There are false polls and accurate ones
The Economist poll just had Kerry up 49-45, making it an honest poll and the 18-24 group was for Kerry 60-33%. If it had just been 18-22, it would have been more like 66-30.

Check it out (it's in there somewhere):

http://economist.com/media/pdf/YouGovS.pdf
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Well, from what's listed it looks like it's more accurate than many...
However, it doesn't mention response rate, the method of sample acquisition (most likely land-line phone only), or whether the interviewing was done by the statisticians themselves or by a contracted telephone interviewing business. All of these factors skew data, and many statisticians don't bother to weight for them, if that's even possible.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. I don't know what to conclude from your numbers since they don't actually
coincide with any specific generations. Generation Xers are roughly between the ages of 24 and 40 right now. So your numbers include one year of Gen Xers in the "most progressive" group, 10 years of Gen Xers in the "most conservative" group and you leave out 5 years of Gen Xers all together. Considering the much smaller size of Gen X these numbers may not even mean anything.

Do the 30-40 year olds (Gen Xers) in the "most conservative" group really outnumber the Boomers (41-44) in that same group? We just don't know. Even if you figure as a conservative estimate that there are only 3 times as many boomers as Xers then the "most conservative" group would still be dominated by boomers. For every 10 Xers in that group there would be 12 boomers. Which are conservative and which are liberal?
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Nicely put porphyrian :) -nt-
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
26. Your Right
I know several of this age group. We have two granddaughters in this group, straight A students and solid Democrats. I will be very proud to turn America over to them. I wish I was half as smart as these kids when I was there age, or now. lol
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. My wife and I were just talking about this the other day
The young are MUCH smarter in the last few years, very different.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
38. I personally think all the generational labelling is bullshit...
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 04:05 PM by Jack_DeLeon
There isnt anything inherintly special or different about the "millennials," just like there wasnt anything inheriently special about GenX or the baby boomers.

We are all human beings just like everyone else.
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Zing Zing Zingbah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I tend to agree too.
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toddaa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. Pissing off a Gen Xer
Nothing worse than a bunch of Boomers telling us Gen Xers what we believe. The fact is, Gen Xers tend towards pretty extreme independence in political views. We lean towards fiscal conservatism but are socially quite liberal. Calling us primarily Republican makes no sense when most of us are not aligned with EITHER party.

Don't make me take out my Black Flag records and start playing Rise Above over and over. God, I hate boomers.
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
41. Reposting my summarization article on this book
It is somewhat long but I think it is worth the read. Notes: The generational lines do not necessarily correspond with those of others authors/articles. Per the authors over time the generations define themselves (and sometimes even name themselves). The Gen X'ers (Nomads) have been taking a beating on this thread and I know many fine young GenX'ers including my own socially conscious and liberal children.

Original Post:

The Fourth Turning
(An American Prophecy)
by
William Strauss and Neil Howe

As a history buff, I have often been intrigued by the fact that we humans seem to be repeating ourselves and making the same mistakes over and over again. This book discusses this issue and has some very enlightening and frightening insights into our current situation. I highly recommend that everyone who can get a copy of this book and share its insights with your family, friends and community. I am offering a brief explanation of the book. It is not hard to read, but is detailed and has many charts to further clarify.

The authors state that we post-renaissance westerners tend to look at history and progress as a linear, straight-line progression. They postulate (along with others of note) that our history is cyclical in nature. If we are lucky we will spiral upward, if not then we will spiral downward.

Our history moves through 4 Turnings in a Cycle or Saeculum. This cycle is generally 80 to 100 yrs long and most of us will live to go through the 4 cycles. Since 1465 there have been 6 completed Anglo-American saeculums. At the time this book was written in 1997 we were in the third turning of the 7th saeculum. During each saeculum a generation is born. This generation will be shaped by the cycle it is born in and will have distinctive characteristics that will hold true for the entire generation over time. In addition, throughout history these generations will also share characteristics with its prior ancestral generations. (Example: The Lost Generation of 1883-1900 shares characteristics with the current generation GenX born 1961-1981.)

At the time this book was written the authors anticipated a crisis sometime circa 2005 that could be triggered by a Constitutional crisis, terrorism, economic devaluation or some other unforeseen problem. A Crisis is a critical time for the country and there is no guarantee that the society/nation will emerge intact at the end of it. The reason for this is simple: The elder leaders in the Crisis will be the Prophet Generation who may carry their passion and idealism to a fiery extreme. The followers will be the Heroes who will be entering into young adulthood. The Heroes will follow the lead the prophets set forth for them. This can mean that if there is a war the heroes will willingly go forth to fight. Wars fought in a crisis tend to be all out without regard to death & destruction (WWII). A crisis does not necessarily mean war but if war does occur, it will be deadly and serious. The generation in the middle, the Nomads, will be entering mid-life and moving into positions of authority. The Nomad generation can be tough, pragmatic and may be the ones who need to step in to temper the Prophet generation’s passion if it gets out of hand.

Personally, I think we entered the beginning stages of the crisis in Dec. 2000 with the unconstitutional installation of GWB as president. The 9-11 attack is a continuation. We are just in the beginning stages of this crisis. All of us Boomers need to be aware of our generational characteristics as we lead in this crisis and you Gen X’s please be prepared to do what you can to temporize the passions. I hope that we come out of this crisis a better nation but there is no guarantee.

I will now explain the current saeculum with its 4 turnings and the generation that is born during that turning. A saeculum begins with:

1) A High (The American High – 1946-1964). A high occurs when a previous crisis has been resolved. Characteristics are strong government and community institutions. Strong respect for authority. A united, can-do, optimistic attitude. The Prophet Generation is born during a High (Boomers 1943-1960). Child Prophets are loved, indulged, and grow up in a permissive but conformist society. Prophets are passionate, idealistic. Their principle endowments are in the domains of vision, values and religion. (Famous prophets: Obi Wan Kenobi, Darth Vader, Gandalf, Franklin Roosevelt, Churchhill, Lenin)

2) An Awakening (The Consciousness Revolution – 1964-1984) During an awakening new spiritual and social ideals burst forth. Individual enlightenment is sought versus community conformity. During this generation Nomads are born (13’ers or GenX 1961-1981) Nomads grow up as under protected children in an increasingly alienated society. In their youth, they are thought of as hell-raisers. Their principle endowments are in the domains of liberty, survival and honor. (Famous nomads: Han Solo, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Hemmingway, George Washington, Patton, Hitler)
3) The Unraveling (Culture Wars – 1984 – 2005?) During an unraveling the changes/values of the Awakening are incorporated into society but there is a deep feeling of dissatisfaction leading to pessimism. During this time, institutions, communities and government are at their weakest. Pragmatism, self-reliance and laissez-faire attitudes prevail. During an unraveling a generation of Heroes is born (Millennials – 1982 -- ?). Heroes are increasingly protected by their parents, cherished & brought up with high expectations of their abilities and accomplishments. Their principal endowments are in the domains of community, affluence and technology. (Famous Heroes: Luke Skywalker, Frodo, Thomas Jefferson, JFK)
4) The Crisis— (Millennial Crises – 2005? - ?) This 4th Turning arises in response to sudden threats or previous issues which are now perceived as dire. One simple imperative arises: The society must prevail. This will require solid public consensus, aggressive institutions and personal sacrifice. During this period the Artist Generation is born. The Artist is a protected child who is expected to obey, be helpful, and be self-reliant during the period of the crisis. Their principal endowments are in the domains of pluralism, expertise and due process. (Famous Artists are Woodrow Wilson, Colin Powell, Walter Mondale, Martin Luther King Jr.)

Much of what I have read on DU during the past 2 yrs. supports this thesis. I do believe this nation is on the threshold of a series of major crises in the next few years: environmental, fiscal, constitutional and international. The current administration is certainly (in my opinion) making all of these issues worse than they should have been when the final reckoning comes. The thought of the Dark Prophets—such as Gingrich, Bush, Delay, Cheney running this country during this time gives me pause for great fear and worry.





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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. only working from your summary, it doesn't make any sense to me
Maybe the full book helps.

The description of a Prophet ("passionate, idealistic. Their principle endowments are in the domains of vision, values and religion") obviously applies to Martin Luther King. I would describe Churchill as a Nomad (maybe FDR too - I don't know if he was a 'hell-raiser' as a youth). Surely Hitler was more of a 'Prophet' (albeit an evil one) than either Churchill or FDR.

Why is a 'Hero' "in the domains of community, affluence and technology"? That sounds more like a Businessman, or an Organiser. What's Heroic about that?

I don't understand the 'Artist' generation at all. Who would call someone with "principal endowments are in the domains of pluralism, expertise and due process" an Artist? How about 'Lawyer'?

And what about all the people not mentioned? Can we really lump Eisenhower in with Patton? Their approaches were very different. Was Nixon similar to JFK?
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69KV Donating Member (444 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Strauss and Howe's two books
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 07:53 PM by 69KV
"Generations" was written in the early 1990s, "The Fourth Turning" in the late 1990s.

The generational labels they use in "The Fourth Turning" like prophet, artist, nomad, hero, don't make much sense - except as a Gen Xer I can identify with the nomad label. In "Generations" they used different names: Civic instead of hero for the G.I. and Millennial generations, idealist instead of prophet for the Baby Boom.

In "Generations" they called Gen X a "reactive" generation instead of nomads. This is the only generation that I think the label they used in "The Fourth Turning" fits better. In 1991 when they wrote their first book we were still coming out of the 1980s and they were trying to promote a theory that Gen X was politically conservative, following the liberal Baby Boomers and Silents. Maybe it looked like that when Gen X first started coming of age during the Reagan era but after 1990 a lot of us swung left. In any case, I think the authors are onto something, but take extreme issue with any portrayal of Gen Xers like myself as conservative as they do in "Generations", and think "The Fourth Turning" gets way too far into mysticism, Jungian archetype stuff, and trying to predict the future.

As even Strauss and Howe would concede, many Gen Xers including myself think that kind of mystical mumbo-jumbo is a bunch of hooey.

But I like the "nomad" label for Gen X and the comparison to the Lost Generation that came of age 1900-1925 - the "bad boy" generations. Seems to fit. Also any good epic novel or movie (Star Wars, Lord of the Rings) has characters that line up with the Strauss and Howe generation theory. Strider and Han Solo the nomads, Gandalf and Obi-Wan the prophet/idealists, Bilbo the artist, Frodo, Princess Leia, and Luke Skywalker the civic/heros. That may be why those epic stories strike such a chord with audiences. So like I said, they may be on to something.

Getting back to politics, if it is true that the Millennial generation is an echo of the G.I. generation (which was civic-minded and strong in support of FDR and the New Deal), then we may be looking at a major political realignment. 2004 = 1932, 9-11 = the 1929 stock market crash, and Bush = Herbert Hoover.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Good Comments....I think their book might have missed some insights
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 08:37 PM by KoKo01
because they tried to satisfy the "publisher to sell" and so included stuff that might not have withstood the test of time.

And, I myself hate "pidgeon holing" folks into some marketing/polling category with social psychologists pouring over us like we are a "clinical study."

I think there's more that can be written. But, I was giving My personal observations of what I've seen since I've been an "Activist" these last years since "Bush Selection." And noticing the groups I see out there on the activist trail.

My Gen X Family Members have not been interested much in this what I've done...or Dean/Kucinich or that the 2000 Election was Stolen from us.

I find them very pragmatic. And, I have close personal ties with them..even though I'm an Older Boomer. Trying to get even the most liberal of the "Gen X'ers" (those who loved Marlo Thomas's "Free to Be You and Me" and Judy Blume Books) has been almost impossible.

I don't know that I would say they are "Nomads." I think they might be "Ostriches" or "opportunists" who are not committed?

I don't know. But I think "Security" is the most important to GEN X than anything else...so not Nomads who are willing to move or need to move for their livelyhood but they are a group looking for some kind of stability they didn't get growing up?

I don't know...they are an interesting generation...I am only speculating from what I know of them, not being "of" them.

But they are very "Selfish." Compared to the generations preceding them...in many ways... Credit Cards to the Max...and gotta have it NOW..not later...:shrug:
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