Is Michael Moore a good spokeman for "the left"?

[SeveneightyWhoa]

Obviously Moore is now synonymous with the "left" in America. John Kerry may or not be the "number one liberal in the senate", but Michael Moore is certainly the number one liberal in America.

But overall..

[lilymidnite]

1. A**holes only see the fat guy

And immediately discredit him.

Lovely, deep-thinkers, those a**holes.

[NNadir]

50. He's like a fireman who wants to be a hero for putting out fires he starts

I appreciate his Johnny come lately enthusiasm (and money making) but he was a big propagandist for the notion that there was no fucking difference between Gore and Bush.

If someone had followed him around with a camera pointing out the huge disparity between what he said then and the actual case, he'd look pretty asinine.

He's helped this year, but he still is an asshole of the first order for putting us all through this shit in the first place.

[NightTrain]

65. Oh, yeah! Fighting the last war is really going to help.

Live in the fucking present, will you?!

[Union Thug]

2. I think he is a very appropriate spokesperson..

He is a blue collar guy, works hard, is articulate and takes no shit from anyone. He's exactly the kind of guy I like to have speaking for me.

[Dogmudgeon]

3. NO!

Heaven forbid we ever have "A Spokesman"!

Michael Moore is great. He has done more for us -- Americans, not just Liberals -- than we even had a right to expect. I'll give him the highest praises I can. But it's contrary to the nature of the Left to have a unitary spokesman.

Let a hundred flowers bloom -- and a thousand Michael Moores find their various voices!

--bkl

[Union Thug]

4. I didn't read it the same as you. "A" spokesperson is very different...

...from THE spokesperson.

Michael Moore is one of many great voices, and for me, he is a very appropriate spokesperson.

As is Howard Zinn and many others. MIchael is great because he represents traditional lefties.. working class, no nonsense people.

[lanparty]

8. He's a better representative than ...

He's a better rep for us than Tom Daschle!!!!

[Cocoa]

39. exactly!

same with Eminem, let's just hear from some different people for a change. They mainly represent themselves, but a lot of people identify with some of the things they say, they ask some important questions that no one's asking.

:toast:

[lanparty]

5. Moore is right the first time!!!!

Moore is correct the first time. Moore doesn't back down!!! Moore does his reasearch and he KNOWS his stuff.

I sure hope that Moore takes a break from his "sicko" project to document the election!!!

[Kanary]

6. NO!

HE's fantastic!!

What an intellect....... that is one smart fella, and we're extremely lucky to have him!

Kanary, who can't wait to see his documentary on health care!

[Redleg]

7. Yes and no.

He is a passionate advocate for the left BUT some of his research is shoddy and some of his statements lack context (as do many campaign ads from either side). I believe this allows the right to dismiss Moore as a partisan hack.

[Abelman]

9. I say no

He doesn't always tell the truth, whether it be from poor research or what. I have a hard time rallying around him, and I see him as a liberal Rush.

He had credibility with me, but he's starting to lose it.

[trumad]

10. You had credibility with me, but you lost it with your dumb ass post.

[Bridget Burke]

12. List the lies.

So we can debunk them.

[Hello_Kitty]

49. To many he comes off Ann Coulter-ish

I'm not saying I agree with it but he's seen a whacky loose cannon who says outrageous things for publicity. Rush, sadly, actually gets more credibility with the general public.

[Arkana]

55. Nah, Mike sounds more funny than angry, actually

He's a GREAT spokesman for the left. I love Mike Moore. He's funny, smart, and he's tough--we need people like him.

[aden_nak]

11. Yes, providing there are other spokesmen.

He has the ability to fire people up and get them interested. He comes off as anything BUT uptight and politically purchased. We need other spokesmen, of course, to carry the ball once people are taking interest. But as a "grabber" he is outstanding. He gets people interested, which, in the world of politics, is usually the biggest challenge.

[IrateCitizen]

13. He's a great spokesman because of his immense talents as a filmmaker

Not because he presents detailed arguments or anything else. It's because he is the rarest of people who is able to take documentary filmmaking not just to a mainstream audience, but to use it as a vehicle to get out an effective message.

IMHO, the most powerful parts of F-9/11 were the ones that showed the soldiers in Iraq, the segments with Lila Lipscomb, and the ones who were maimed after they came back. He pounded home the message that what this administration did with our soldiers wasn't right, and that they deserve much, much better.

Moore is a propagandist. I'll readily admit that. But he is a BRILLIANT propagandist, and he also isn't afraid to take the media to task when he knows they cannot ignore him. I LOVED the segments he did on Today in which he eviscerated both Matt Lauer and Katie "Navy Seals Rock!" Couric -- not to mention the twist-about he pulled on Hannah "I'm not a journalist but I play one on TV" Storm.

He's immensely valuable because of two things. First, he provides the left with someone who knows how to hit people in their "lizard brain" -- something that the Republicans know all to well how to do. Second, he gives us someone who immediately dispels the liberal = weak label, the way that he stands up to those who seek to discredit him.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. As one of many, yes. We need outspoken partisan spokesmen.

I much prefer Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Arundhati Roy, Howard Dean, Dennis Kucinich, etc, but Moore has done great work in bringing the issues to ordinary people.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. I am torn between one and two. On the one hand he has done

so much for us, but on the other hand he occasionally makes statements that have me wincing.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[MaryBear]

16. I voted for 2 but probably should have

voted for 1. What I would change:

I would have him be better groomed and dressed neatly. I have hated when people said these things about me! But we're trying to reach a non progressive audience. He would be less likely to be written off out of hand.

Also, I would have him be more polite. That C. Heston thing was over the top. For the same audience.

Otherwise, he is great and doing a terrific job being done by no one else so successfully. I think he could be even more successful, though.

[NYCGirl]

17. Michael Moore is better than a spokesman, he's an artist.

"Spokesman" would be a step down for him.

[UdoKier]

18. He's kinda like our Ann Coulter, except not evil.

Since he never runs for office, he doesn't have to be as mindful of what he says. I personally don't mind tirades or outrageous statements, but sometimes he is a little sloppy in his work, (the point about planes leaving the US during the lockdown in F9-11 - it was unclear and left an opening for the right to "debunk" it, even though it was actually factual.)

With a little more attention to detail and discipline, Moore could be the premier populist.

BTW, Kerry is no liberal.

[leyton]

28. Yes, he is very sloppy; a horrible spokesman.

I think he is a horrible spokesman: he is so blatantly uninterested in appearing unbiased (mocking the POTUS in F9/11, for example, when a simple straight-up documentary would have sufficed). I wouldn't consider anything he says authoritative.

To me, spokespeople for the left are our distinguished Senators and Congressmen and former Prezes: Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Teddy Kennedy, Charles Rangel, Fritz Hollings, Byrd (from WV, can't remember his first name), Dianne Feinstein, Al Gore, etc.

[robbedvoter]

29. Oh, yeah? Has he lied? is he delusional? demented? had sex change?

:WTF:

[robbedvoter]

31. He is MY spokesman. I used to have a candidate to do that, now, only MM

P.S. He used to support my candidate too.
I used to be furious with him in 2000. I forgave him at the Oscar speech. Now - he is THE ONE GOOD GUY in this thing.

[UdoKier]

35. I've never calle him a liar. I called him undisciplined.

There is an army of snakes ready to strike at any mistake or distortion he makes.

I've been a huge fan of his going back to "Roger & Me", so I feel comfortable in offering mild criticism. I'm not sure if he realizes what a high profile he has and that his mistakes can affect us all.

To be fair, the flights during the shutdown thing was the only thing in the whole movie that was even close to inaccurate (and as I said, it was more a case of vagueness than inaccuracy.)

[robbedvoter]

36. Name one mistake in F911! One!

[UdoKier]

38. The mistake was a lack of clarity that the right exploited.

Moore's film narration said that in the days after 9-11, while all planes were grounded, Bin Laden family members and other Saudis were rounded up and then flown out of the country.

While this statement is technically true, it can be construed as deceptive.

The families WERE flown about the country during the grounding, but only to airports where they could prepare to leave. They did not LEAVE THE COUNTRY until the flight ban was lifted on the 14th. That they left on the 14th is also indicated in the film, but it's not made clear that thhat was after the ban was lifted. It's a sloppiness that the right has seized on, saying "It's a lie! They didn't fly out of the country during the flight ban!!!"

But the fact remains that these people WERE flying when all flights were grounded - within the US - special treatment most would find shocking.

When throwing such an explosive bomb as this, why defuse it by being sloppy?

[Gabi Hayes]

53. sigh....you are WRONG about that fact, and have fallen for the RW spin

usually agree with what you say, but Moore's site has explicitly debunked this, citing the QUOTED appearance by Unger in the movie regarding this


what the movie SAYS is that certain Saudis were allowed to fly INSIDE the US, to get to gathering points, NOT that they left they country when nobody else was allowed to fly

this is typical of the FALSE mythos created by the right

go to his site for a long exegesis of this, including Unger's REAMING of the lazy, filthy liar Isikoff, who was one of the first to propagate this HUGE LIE

[UdoKier]

58. It says that, but the wording is vague and easily exploited.

They merely exploited a hole created by sloppy writing.

[charlie]

67. Moore's problem isn't that he's sloppy

It's that he's held to a higher standard of accuracy than other pundits and polemicists, because he's from the left -- and there's a paucity of support from the left he can depend on to back him up. A twit like Michelle Malkin can make harebrained assertions and an army of Safires, Medveds, Kauses, Limbaughs, and the like will parse, shoehorn, and tweeze what she said into something not quite so looney. Or at least, obfuscate and divert by "discovering" clauses in her wording that prove she was "misinterpreted" by the liberal media. The left doesn't have such a highly-placed network of shills to go to bat for Moore.

[UdoKier]

68. Of course.

In the same way that a woman has to work twice as hard for half as much money, liberals have to have their facts PERFECT. Repugs can say nonsensical lies and NEVER be called on them.

I didn't make the rules, but it's beeen that way for a long time, and Moore needs to stay keenly aware of it.

The repugs have learned to make the language work in their favor. We need to get a lot better at it, too.

[charlie]

69. The difference, my disagreement

is that liberal hyper-awareness of that fact has long kept valid charges of rightwing perfidy well below the threshold of public awareness. No smoking gun? Well, it'll have to wait for the day we catch them red-handed. Until then, we'll concede that the bobbleheads on our side are spreading unfounded rumors -- the Colmes Effect. Meanwhile Republican manufactured reality continues unabated. It's waay past time for us to give up helping to quash those who point out the direction where known facts are headed, just because the connected dots only go so far.

[UdoKier]

62. NOT RW spin. Here is snopes on the matter.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

Claim:   Secret flights whisked bin Laden family members out of the U.S. over the objection of the FBI two days after the September 11 attacks, while a general ban on air travel was still in effect, and before the FBI had any opportunity to question them.

Status:   Multiple — see below


In the two days immediately following the September 11 terrorist attacks on America, the U.S. government allowed bin Laden family members to fly within the country during a general ban on air travel:   True.
During that same period the U.S. government allowed bin Laden family members to fly out of the U.S.:   Undetermined.
The flights carrying bin Laden family members out of the U.S took place over the objections of the FBI:   False.
The FBI was denied any opportunity to question departing bin Laden family members:   False.

(continues on snopes)

[Arkana]

57. Um, wrong.

The departure dates were all 9/13/01--a day BEFORE the ban was lifted.

[UdoKier]

59. On my DVD, in the scene in question, there is a printout of the flights

and all of them have a departure date of 9/14.

But we're quibbling about minutiae, when the important points are that

a. Bin Ladens were given special permission to fly during the flight ban.

b. They were allowed to leave the country without being interviewed.


Two points that could have been made in a more concrete way had the writer of the narration made the prose AIRTIGHT.

[paulk]

19. I don't know what to think anymore

sometimes I think he's brilliant, other times I find him a loudmouth blowhard. When he gets it right, he really gets it right. When he gets it wrong, he makes me cringe.

I thought 9/11 was a very effective piece of work that only occasionally slipped into propaganda. Recently I saw two speeches of his, one on "FSTV" and the other on C-Span, and my reaction to him was very negative.

The self aggrandizing nature of his work puts him in danger of becoming a leftist Rush Limbaugh, and I don't think that's ultimately of much value. He's becoming a cult figure and that will marginalize his message. So, I guess my answer is no - I don't think he's a good spokesman for the left.

[Taxloss]

20. I voted "he's embarrassing"

because he indulges in cheap stunts, he overstates his case, and he makes himself an easy target. But he's only embarrassing in the sense that Ann Coulter is embarrassing, and she's far more toxic for her side because she doesn't try and play to the people who don't agree with her.

MM does vital work and has been hugely successful in injecting left-wing "talking points" into this campaign, far more successful than your politicians, and that's something to think about.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. far more successful than your politicians?

are they not your politicians too?

[Taxloss]

32. No, they aren't.

I'm British.

But I suppose they are "my" politicians in the sense that they've dominated and shaped political discourse in my country for the past three years.

[donheld]

24. I voted you're embarrassing.

:spank:

[Taxloss]

33. Ouch. Sorry.

I Just said what I thought. I still admire the guy. Did you read my post all the way through?

[donheld]

76. Yes i read it

and disagree most strongly

[robbedvoter]

37. Another new DU-ers disliking MM...Yawn

[Taxloss]

41. I'm really sorry.

I took the question at face value. I forgot the fevered times. I am very sorry - I really do like MM's films and admire what he has done. Whatever criticisms I have are irrelevant. His work speaks for itself.

And he rocked on "Question Time".

[camero]

21. MM is a good spokesman for the left

DK would be even better. I choose DK to speak for us.

[donheld]

22. Quite frankly i don't understand any of you who voted other than #1

If we could have done better who would any of you suggest? So he's not Mr. GQ so what. Those who say he's an embarrassment baffle me.

[Liberal Veteran]

25. I know...it's like saying Peter Jackson is bad director

...because he's short, a bit heavy, and somewhat untidy looking.

But he filmed one of the best (if not the best) fantasy movies of all time and did it well.

[Taxloss]

40. I'm really, really sorry.

I took the question at face value. I forgot the fevered times. I am very sorry - I really do like MM's films and admire what he has done. Whatever criticisms I have are irrelevant. His work speaks for itself.

And he rocked on "Question Time".

[donheld]

75. You are right

these last few weeks have made us all crazy.

[geniph]

26. He's not any kind of official representative,

he's a private citizen exercising his First Amendment rights. As such, he's not any kind of spokesman. All that matters is whether he says things that need saying, which he does.

It's no more up to me to judge him than it's up to him to judge me.

[PatriotGames]

27. He is one of the catalysts that are helping take our country back!

Without people like him, who knows how many would still be sipping the Kool-Aid?

[Selatius]

30. Good for us but not necessarily for the truth

He's done a lot of good for the left in general, but if he were honest with himself as far as corruption in government, he'd also rail people among the Democrats who screw over Americans as well. Just look at that 120 billion dollar pork-barrel tax giveaway that was just passed. How can anyone honestly say that it was not a bipartisan thing?

The truth is on the side of the people. What Moore asserted in F9/11 is largely correct on many spots, but he seems to not want to deal with the same kind of wheeling and dealing in backrooms that many corrupt, corporatized Democrats engage in as well. People who put money, power, and control ahead of lives should be opposed in both parties, not just among the Republicans.

[Robbie67]

34. F9/11 was about Bush

He's constantly speaking out against Democrats (including in F9/11 about the CBC in Congress after the 2000 election) but F9/11 was more about Bush, the media, and the threat they represent.

See Bowling for Columbine if you haven't.

[MsConduct]

42. You need to add the "no" option....

I think all we lefties can speak well enough for ourselves. We are not the sheeple, remember?


Peace

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. Think Fahrenheit 911.

That's all we need to remember! Don't forget the Thousands of minds that movie changed!!! No one has done more for this election. Michael Moore is not only a "good" spokesman, he's a GREAT spokesman. As we speak the man is in Florida and Ohio with 1200 (?) camera people making sure the repukes don't pull any shit. He has been on tour for the last 51 DAYS straight!!!! Doing what he can. He pulls HUGE crowds wherever he goes and those HUGE crowds are listening to the DEMOCRATIC issues. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't turn on Michael Moore! He doesn't deserve that. He's a hero in my eyes. :hug:

[AlbertoMo83]

44. Us Liberals need him

I think he's the best spokesperson for us. He's got balls, and he's a pain in the ass to the Repukes!! I like the fact that he's not afraid to criticize some Moderate Dems.

[eauclaireliberal]

45. RE: "Is Michael Moore a good spokeman for "the left"?"

I wasn't aware of any coronation of this position for Moore.

[H2O Man]

51. Michael Moore is a patriotic American

He has a good understanding of the United States Constitution. He has authored a couple good books, a couple good movies, and one great movie. He's a "working class hero" by definition.

As an artist -- and F 9-11 is art -- Moore gives voice to the democratic left in an arena where they had no voice. So in a sense, there are times when he serves as a spokesman. But in many other arenas, the democratic left has a loud voice. In that sense, he does play the same role.

But one thing is for sure: when the right-wing republicans insult and discredit him, and try to get the left to deny him, it doesn't work. He's done a hell of a job, and his movie F 9-11 comes closer to the God-honest truth than did the commission.

[eauclaireliberal]

66. RE: "Michael Moore is a patriotic American"

He's done a hell of a job, and his movie F 9-11 comes closer to the God-honest truth than did the commission.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I was being a wise-ass, though.

[foreigncorrespondent]

46. My bloody oath he is!!!!

And not just to the left in the U.S. either. This guy is respected all over the world!

A little story, when F9/11 first opened here in Oz, I took my mum to see it. She had never heard of Michael Moore, and she was never into politics.

I would tell her stuff all the time, but she was never interested, but after seeing Mike's movie my mother is a changed woman! She now listens to anything I talk about to do with politics, plus she is forever coming and telling me stuff she has heard about! She also went out of her way to find as many of Mike's stuff on DVD as we could get down here. We now own Bowling for Columbine and Roger and Me. And we will be getting The Awful Truth as soon as I can get into our video place and order it.

Mike is a true hero and a very unique citizen of this world!

[mtnsnake]

47. I think he's a good spokesman for the left but I don't think he's the end

to all our means. For that, I think we have some good people like Hillary or Barack Obama to take care of business.

Anyway, Moore has been a breath of fresh air for all of us. Try to imagine for a second what we would all be missing if he weren't around. This guy has put himself on the front lines for us when it comes to facing an obscene amount of right wing battering. He's done so much to expose criminals like bush and he's done it without apologizing for anything. The guy has major balls.

OTOH, I find him sometimes just a little "too in your face" kind of guy and I worry that some swing voters will find him annoying enough that he swings them the wrong way. His movie was doing all the talk it needed to do on its own merits, yet Michael was still trying to ram it down certain people's throats who just weren't going to have any part of it.

Bottom line, I love the guy, and I'm glad we have him on our side.

[autorank]

48. The "Slacker" tour is the hardest work any volunteer did for us!!!

THANKS DUDE, FOR HELPING US FIGHT THE BASTARDS WHO STOLE OUR COUNTRY!

[SudieJD]

52. If You've Ever Been To Flint, MI

You'd know why he's the way he is. And why he fights so hard for the working person.

I used to live in the S.E. part of MI and visited Flint every summer on my way to Frankenmuth MI for chicken dinners. I also did a photo shoot there for a class I was in.

It's one of the most depressed places on earth. Bar none. They've tried everything to get the city back up, but failed at everything. Very sad.

Michael is the best spokesman anyone has ever had.

Sudie in MN

[Maya29]

56. If you don't want him send him to Canada..We will take him!

I love Michael Moore..I have for years. He used to have a TV show exposing corporate corruption & injustice, it was very revolutionary.

I can't wait for his new film about HMO's. Whomever compared him to Ann Coulter is so very wrong. Ann suggests murdering all Muslim's & preaches about how life was better with segregation & without women having the right to vote. Michael is left-wing, however I have never heard him calling for the slow, painful deaths of the neo-cons & nutso-fundies (not a bad idea though).

[bemildred]

54. He is the anti-Coulter, fight fire with fire.

He is not "the" spokesman for the left, there is no
"the" spokesman for the left, but he is an effective
spokesman for some leftist points of view, and he makes
the current crop of pseudo-conservatives gibber, whine,
amd dribble urine. What more could you want?

[geek tragedy]

60. Michael Moore speaks for Michael Moore and no one else.

He takes Bush behind the woodshed, which I love.

But, he is a critic and a gadfly, not a leader.

[Columbia]

73. Yup

One can be both against Bush and Moore.

[geek tragedy]

74. I'm not against Moore.

He's just a filmmaker. But he's not the savior either. He's much more appealing when he's skewering the right than when he turns on the Dems.

[feistydem]

61. No one from the Left has shown Moore's courage.

I applaud him even when I think he's being extreme.

Thank God for Michael Moore!

[NashVegas]

63. No, But as a Flamethrower, He's a Huge Asset

:)

[vinnievin777]

64. If it wasn't for Michael Moore

whether you agree with him or not on all issues --We would not be where we are today if it wasn't for Michael Moore having the courage when most people didn't.


Vinnie Vin
http://www.vinnievin.com

[Democat]

70. Michael Moore stood up against Bush loudly right after 9/11!

When most others on our side were kissing Bush's ass, Moore stood up and called Bush on his lies and corruption.

Moore stood up when others refused to and he deserves our thanks, even if you don't agree with everything he says.

[vinnievin777]

72. That's what I was saying

Glad you agree.

Vinnie Vin
http://www.vinnievin.com

[Spiffarino]

71. He makes great movies

And he's entertaining. I wouldn't call him a spokesman. He has his passions, his obsessions, and his brilliant way of expressing them.

He represents himself.

[intheflow]

77. I like Moore just fine, but then

I'm pretty far left myself. I've seen him speak in person a number of times, and he always speaks the truth as I understand it.

Overall, I think he's been valuable for forcing LW issues into the spotlight. Both the right and the left need an extreme fringe for the middle to move at all. In that respect, he's been very good for the left because he's managed to make the middle move more left in the past 3 years or so.

But if we're looking for someone to unite the country for truth, justice, and the American way, Moore is no Superman. Like Rush for us, Moore is often perceived by the right as a loud, angry, white male. Because of his in-your-face attitude, he has probably alienated some people who might be persuaded by a gentler leftist view.

[Avalon Sparks]

78. He's AMAZING!

I believe all his efforts on F-911 may have been one of the biggest factors in the current momentum Kerry is having.

We've know all along all we need to do is get the truth out to people and the major media monopolies in this country were NOT getting the job done.

Moore did it, and he did it fantastically.

In fact I believe if Kerry is elected we own a million thanks to Mr. Moore - no question about it.

Michael Moore is our HERO!

Just heard that F-911 DVD's are outselling "The Passion"... what does that tell ya?????

THANK YOU MICHAEL MOORE - you did EVERYTHING humanly possible to get Bush outta Gore's house and you have my undying gratitude!