The explanation on Franken - Dixiecrats in Fla

[Jersey Devil]

For those posting about the Bush huge majorities in Florida districts that had huge Democratic majority registration, some guests on the Franken show explained that they were largely Dixiecrats (DINOs) who registered as Dems only because in the past you sort of had to be a Democrat because no Republicans ran in those districts and the primaries usually decided the elections. So if you weren't a registered Dem you could not vote in the primary and thus would have no real say in local representation.

[htuttle]

1. So all those Democratic voters are actually Republicans. Makes sense...

..IN CRAZYWORLD!!!!!!

If there is so much Republican support in those districts, why do none run in the local races?

I understand what Al's guest said about Dixiecrats, and sure -- about 20 years ago, I would have believed that explanation. But it's been 40 years since the Civil Rights legislation created 'Dixiecrats', and most of them have already just switched to Republican (other than Zell, who might have been the last holdout).

I don't buy that one.

[Jersey Devil]

4. These are old people and their registrations go back decades

Look, just because I posted it does not mean that I accept it fully myself. But it is at least a plausible explanation. It would also explain a lot of the Dem registrations statewide in Florida for the elderly.

[rockydem]

5. I looked up these counties and found that they voted for Bush

in 2000 and most went for Dole in 1996 (perot factor). If you want to prove voter fraud I don't these counties are where you'll find it...

[Jersey Devil]

7. which is consistent with them being Dixiecrats

There is no one more than I who would want there to be provable fraud and Kerry elected, but we cannot bury our heads in the sand and ignore reasonble explanations.

[rockydem]

9. exactly I'm real sick of DUers who act like freepers

and run around with saying fraud is proven - it has not been fucking proven - especially not in Florida.

The closest thing I've seen are some things that happened in Ohio. But I haven't seen any evidence that what occurred there was enough to throw the state to Kerry, much less the country.

[AnIndependentTexan]

18. did you ever think we aren't trying to prove the fraud, but the machines

have to go? If we don't get proof that the machines are at fault then it doesn't matter what happens. They had 4 years to fix those machines and they only made them worst! We have people going to FBI because they have proof that the machines were hacked. The person says it is the same people from 2000, 20002, and now 2004. I just heard on air america radio.

[rockydem]

23. I agree the machines either need to go or be vastly improved

I want the whole voting apparatus overhauled in this country. People shouldn't have to wait in line for five or more hours just to vote.

But all I'm saying is that fraud has not been proven yet, not even close. It's the discrepencies in Ohio that catch my eye the most. I hope that people in Ohio are looking into those.

[John Q. Citizen]

33. Wow! Got a link?

[hlthe2b]

14. Easy way to disprove: do an agegroup comparison....

Should be limited to older age groups....or at least significantly more frequent.

[Jersey Devil]

22. Sure, maybe, but has it been done?

I am not saying this explanation should be accepted as fact, only that it is plausible and if we are going to use these types of things as "evidence" then these explanations must be thoroughly debunked before any attack based on them.

[Ducks In A Row]

2. I guess Jeb Bush wasted all the effort rigging the election

It's surprising the size of the yellow streak back franken's back

[John Q. Citizen]

3. It's a lame exuse that can easily be debunked.

In Florida, the only factor that determined major Dem to Bush movement was the kind of machine used to vote on.

[Jersey Devil]

6. I didn't hear Al doing any disagreeing - in fact

I thought he did in fact agree with them. Look, I know that maybe this is not what we want to hear but before we start screaming fraud all over the place maybe we should look more closely into things like this before claiming we have solid proof.

[Patiod]

8. Agree - he's just waiting for something more solid than "patterns"

As I've said before, I donated to BBV.org because I want this ferretted-out whether it influences this election or not.

[Jersey Devil]

12. Then we agree to agree

I donated myself 2 days ago. Hopefully something can be done with regard to this election but the BBV problem is also a long term solution that we must fix even if this election stands as is.

Going forth now with just an series of oddball but possibly easily explainable circumstances like the Dixiecrat thing would make us all look like fools and any further claims would be dismissed as nothing but the rantings of a bunch of tinfoil hatters.

[hlthe2b]

17. It irks me too, but Al is being very cautious-- Franken is a lightnening

rod for the O'Lielies first and foremost, many associate AAR specifically with Franken, Franken also represented the campaign on several appearances (unrelated to AAR), and finally I think this proves Franken has MN Senate 08 on his mind.

[Jersey Devil]

19. I am not the least bit disappointed with al, think he is doing it right

They will mock us to high Heaven if we open with a bunch of specious claims that cannot be proven and we will never have any credibility whatsoever thereafter.

[hlthe2b]

34. Yes, JD , He is being smart.... I'm just so tired of our having to

step on eggshells, while the REPUGS pull every nasty (and quite probably felonious) trick in the book....

But, yes, Al is being smart.

[okieinpain]

29. yes, we need good proof before this proceeds further. else we

will be drowned out by a chrous of whinning babies. but there seems to be something new every day. today on npr they were talking about some countie in nevada that went heavy for bush, but it also surprising voted down a ban on brothels. so now the two brothels that had be voted now are now going to be reopened. the owner of one of the brothels said that he was really shocked that the measure passed.

[Redleg]

21. Yes- that is the point.

All other is bullshit.

[stopbush]

10. My mother-in-law is still a registered R but hasn't voted for an R

in years. She complains about bush and the Rs constantly. But her father was an R and was the mayor of a city in CA back in the 50s, so she's always been an R. The past eelction she was bothered 4-5 times a day by R's calling her on bush's behalf. She told them all she was voting for Kerry and to please take her off their call lists, but it's obvious that won't happen until she changes party affiliation.

Sometimes those allegiances die hard. I can imagine it going the other way in the Dixiecrat south.

[Jersey Devil]

13. Same here - an uncle in NJ who is a Dem but last voted for Truman

and then for every Republican thereafter. I also have several friends who are really Republicans but switched registrations to vote for personal friends in primary elections.

[Mr_Spock]

11. I've said this a thousand times here

Why doesn't somebody tell Randi this?

[Mistress Quickly]

15. In GA its the same thing

well, except we don't have to register with either party. But most local politicians ran as Democrats, regardless. You could NOT get elected as a republican, local/state-wise, until about 4 years ago.

That's all changed.

** sigh **

[Jersey Devil]

16. That's how it is in Fla now they said

but these people just never bothered to make a trip to the town hall just to change their registrations. Why bother?

[Mistress Quickly]

25. Exactly

why bother? Not everyone is as concerned about party registration as we are. As long as they can vote, why bother. Its probably more of a hassle than anything.

[Redleg]

20. I don't buy it.

I'm not saying there has been voting fraud but I don't buy the explanation that these folks were once, a long time ago, registered as Dems and never changed their friggin' registration. In every state I have ever lived, you changed your registration every time you moved. Do these Floridians never move?

[Jersey Devil]

28. Do we even know if these are retirement areas?

If they are and these people moved in say 20 years ago, why would they have moved? And if they did move, do you know anyone who goes back to the place they used to live to unregister themselves?

My daughter was registered in NJ when she lived at home with me. Then she moved to Fla when she got married and registered there. Then she moved to NC and she registered there. Every year she gets a sample ballot at my house from NJ even though she is registered in elsewhere and her name is still on the books at the NJ polls even though she has not vote here for about 5 years. Why? Because her mail still gets delivered to my home from the election board.

Don't you think the same thing happens in Florida?

[Mistress Quickly]

32. In GA we don't have to claim party affiliation

[theboss]

24. It's that way all over the South

Am I the only one who remembers the Solid South? The Republicans didn't even try to win in the south until the 80s. The voters may have changed habits but not necessarily registrations.

By the way, has anyone noticed that New York City has had a Republican mayor for ten years now?

[Dr.Phool]

26. Also, No Party affiliation

About a third of my county is registered as NPA.

We're pretty damn sure that fraud DID take place, but we have to find solid evidence. We're having a meeting tonight to plot strategy.

[Shopaholic]

31. You don't have to declare a preference in South Carolina

at all--

[Minimus]

27. Same in North Carolina

I worked phone banks and one of my call lists was registered Dems aged 65 and older (senior citizens, home during the day). 99% were voting repub. It drove me nuts! Why don't they just change their affiliation?

I guess they are like Zell "I was born a democrat, I will die a democrat" Miller.

[Jersey Devil]

30. My daughter had the same experience in NC

She lives in Goldsboro where her husband is stationed at the AF base.