There will not be a United States of America in 20 years.

[tjwash]

Hey, look at it this way: we have kick ass seats to the end of our country. In the same chain of events that befell the Soviet Union, we are doomed as a nation. There are amazing parallels.The Soviets, had a crushing national debt, widespread religious intolerance, a horribly biased media, and a one party system of government. Yeah, go ahead and tell me we have a two party system, but who was the last TRUE liberal we ever elected? Also, we are two years away from having such a huge imbalance of power in all branches of the government that our voices as democrats will no longer matter, as we are phased out of the equation.

Corporations are just the first rats leaving the sinking ship, as they outsource and move their factories closer to their new market in China. Look for the USA to splinter into several different territories, as countries like China buy up more and more of our national debt and attempt to dominate us economically, Japan starts cashing in the US bonds they own to fund their own large national debt, causing a downward spiral in the value of the US Dollar against the Euro, and the middle eastern oil countries like Kuwait (who already own large parts of Citibank, and Bank of America, as well as billions in US treasury bonds that can be liquidated immediately) and Saudi Arabia stop being covert, and flat out start writing policy for our government.

I am probably wrong, because I'm feeling a little grim this morning. But you know what? We get what we deserve. And spare me the song and dance about the Bush family stealing the election. We have what we have right now because the American people have become arrogant, lazy, complacent, and have accepted our role as the world's superpower like it is some god given birthright, and not as the massive responsibility that is really is.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. I don't think you're wrong at all.

And yeah, I'm scared too.

[democratreformed]

9. Second this sentiment.

Either way, we have to deal with what comes. And, yes, it's very scary.

[cheezus]

2. feingold?

[helnwhls]

3. I agree

firmly adjusting my tinfoil helmet

:tinfoilhat:

This war over oil is like a war over the canteen on a life boat. The winner only gets enough to keep them alive to watch the others die.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. no this talk has been had by many of us

in private settings

Yuo know when I knew this was the case, 9.12

You DO know what happeend on Dec 8, don't you? The greatest generation went to the recruiters in such numbers that they had to be turend back

On 9.12 well I went a week later and was told no for one reason, married at the time to a deplioyed chief, (now he is retired thankee)... anyhow I asked the recruiter... and for the most part the people who walked in were old and not able to serve, truly. Not the yuong and the able to fight.. what does that tell you about the coutnry, me plenty.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

6. I don't believe in the "greatest generation"

My grandfather met bigotry and corruption at every turn from his "great" generation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Yes but the point is they were there

we, our kids, were not

Even the recruiter was shocked

One person that showed up was a 75 year old B-17 pilot, but no kids... so tell me what does this tell you?

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

10. Gives me hope

We are no longer compelled by a rigid definition of masculinity to join up or face shame. I'm pretty comfortable with that, actually.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Tell sme the nation is no longer having an identity

hence ready to split apart

[helnwhls]

12. excellent point

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

13. That also gives me hope

The nation is too big IMO

[truthseeker1]

20. This is required in order for the power elite to have full authority

in the New World Order - all part of the plan.

[sadiesworld]

25. Yup.

The pieces are falling into place.

Edit to add: I'd hoped for a slower slide with Kerry but apparently it is to be 'shock therapy'.

[lectrobyte]

29. I think you forget too quickly how much folks did in the aftermath

Even here, 1000 miles away, the blood bank line was down the street. I don't know about recruiting offices directly, but I seem to recall news stories showing lots of folks signing up. This country can come together. It did then. Things could have be so much different now, but they're not, and that's the pure hell of it all. If we'd had some leadership, he'd have stood up and tried to do something about an energy policy instead of more tax cuts for SUVs.

[libertad]

39. It tells me that every veteran knows the rules and knew it was

safe to go pretend to volunteer.

[Wright Patman]

5. Media pundits

who were all for Bush's wars like Tom Teepen are now suddenly worried at the emergence of a one-party state dominated by evangelical Christians.

The media have a vested interest in keeping a viable opposition alive. It's just like professional wrestling. There have to be two sides.

If we ever get to a point where there is only one viable party--and we are damned close to that already, especially as more and more of the nation is converted to electronic voting--the TV stations and networks lose hundreds of millions in advertising revenues as there will be no more contested elections.

[Indiana_Dem]

7. I agree. Get the tinfoil hat before you read this:

With the economy in shape it is as you described above, the perfect thing for the powers that be to do would be to privatize our Social Security into the stock markets and everyone rich and poor in this country is then vulnerable to a stock market crash. If China, Japan and other countries decide to pull away from the dollar and to the euro, we're done. That's the only way I see it and it may not happen tomorrow but it will happen someday. Tell me another scenario.

[katmondoo]

19. If not the total collapse

we are definitely witnessing the down fall of American Democracy. I am not sure we can recover this time. In a hundred years or so we may be divided into several states no longer one nation. This will happen unless we have some strong leaders to unite us and fight for the return of the Constitution and bill of rights. We are divided by hate now, unless that ends I feel we as a nation will be doomed. We are already weakened with the Bush policies.

[atreides1]

14. There Will Be

If anyone is willing to fight for it, not all of the military supports Bush, and not all Christians are closed minded bigots.
But if we want to keep our country then we have to fight the Xtian Taliban, because talking does not work with a fanatic, only one thing does.

The Xtian Taliban does not work together well, and the hierarchy does not share its leadership with their kool-aid drinking followers. In fact they try as hard as they can to keep control within the family ranks, Robertson and Graham are just two examples.

And then there is Fred Phelps, who keeps it all in the family. There are few if any who are associated with these fanatics that have the charisma or the ability to lead these groups.

They are not a hydra, with the hydra all of the heads work in concert with the same end in mind, there are differences between Robertson, Falwell, Graham, Swaggert, and the others. One of then wants to be top dog, and they all know that only one can be in charge.

Cut off the head, and the body dies.

[Birthmark]

15. I wonder how many times I've heard that.

I think the first time I heard it was in the 60s sometime. They were wrong. I heard it in the 70s. They were wrong again. I heard it in the 80s. They're wrong...so far. Given such a track record, I'm not selling my bonds just yet. :)

[charlie]

22. Yeah, it might be premature yet

But still, the Party of Fiscal Responsibility is trying to run a program of guns, butter, and tax cuts, with no end of it in sight. I might be wrong, but I don't recall a gov't in our history that's been dumb enough to even think of doing that. It's reeeeally unnerving me.

[sadiesworld]

28. I didn't believe it in the 70's

I didn't believe it in the 80's
I didn't believe it in the 90's

I believe it now.

[truthseeker1]

16. I'm starting to think this too

Not sure there will even be much of a world left in 20 years with the inevitable nuclear war Bush will wage

[Q3JR4]

17. I think 20 years is too optimistic.

Right now, we're set to loose every branch of government no matter what we do. Don't tell me that the whole Bush-stole-the-election thing is unimportant.

The Dem. party will become irrelevant only if we don't have the cajones to do anything about it.

[Tesibria]

18. My Evangelical Rapture Ready (and Kerry supporter) Mother agrees w/ you

Ok -- she was always -- unique.

She's the only other person in my Evangelical.. blah blah balh RED family who is a staunch Democrat/supported Kerry.

She and I were sharing our depression on the phone and she explained to me how "you know, the US is not mentioned ANYWHERE in the Bible in terms of the End Times/Tribulation period). Europe is, Russia is, Asia is. But there is no reference to the US. We just won't be here much longer.

...

--------------------
Store: www.cafepress.com/tesibria.com (All proceeds go to buy PROGRESSIVE books and magazines for small town ("red") library.)
Blog: www.democracyiscoming.com

[Indiana_Dem]

34. I'm similar to your mother....

except that I don't believe in any secret rapture.

I often wonder if the U.S. is the Mystery Babylon mentioned in Revelation that gets destroyed in one day and that all the world will mourn? That's probably why we aren't mentioned. I've read where a path is made so Russia (the bear) and China (the dragon) can come down and destroy Israel but that is after a peace treaty is made. Don't know if any of it is the truth but that's what I've picked up in my evangelical studies in the past. Looks like to me the powers that be are setting up that scenario whether it is intentional or not. I'm also a firm believer in peak oil and that it will be the cataclysmic event that spurs on our destruction. Oil and access to it will be the thing that effects our economic system as well as the U.S. deficit.

I was just hoping that Kerry and the Democrats could slow the process a little bit. Now my hopes are kind of dismal. We, the people, are not in control, I at least wanted to choose who was going to control me. All I wanted was to change the path we were headed. I guess it's not in the cards. Doesn't mean I'm going to give up. We just have to play a little smarter now for our own survival.

[patricia92243]

21. The Chinese own our national debt. Bush will run more and more debt, and

THAT is how we are going to lose our identity - fast. I wonder if they - the CHinese - will let us keep our name?

[booksenkatz]

23. Or sooner; and the question is, how do we prepare?

I'm wondering how to prepare for it. Oh sure, I can love America, I can love her until the mountains fall into the sea, but it won't change the natural progression that is coming. Nature and history have a way of dealing with the type of arrogance and ignorance and greed that has taken over our country.

Today, I'm trying to figure out how to best protect my family for the coming days. Any charity from my household will be DIRECT and LOCAL. I'm networking with local Dems and thinking towards co-ops. My dad has a farm he was thinking of selling, but he has now decided that it may be our only hope for survival at some point, so he's keeping it. I'm having nothing whatsoever to do with repubs UNLESS they can do something materially for me -- fuck them otherwise. If they can't see the writing on the wall, I can't help them. If the majority of Americans don't want to help themselves, how can I possibly care more about helping them than they are willing to care themselves? I advise all Dems living in red states to relocate to blue states -- there's strength in numbers, and we can help each other. If anything is going to get done, it's going to get done by changing electoral college numbers.

Sorry to be so dark, but I'm thinking on a strictly pragmatic basis these days. The time for emotion is over. I'll always have some hope, but I can't eat hope or pay the bills with hope or warm my home with hope. I have to think about my son's future.

[Cleita]

24. I think this is why we can't let our country deteriorate into

the Soviet Union. Like Russia, we may not be able to pull back from the brink if the country gets to far into the abyss once we do boot out the Busheviks.

[Maestro]

26. I want to be the benevolent leader

of the new country. I am starting my campaign now. :)

[charlie]

27. King of the Smoking Ruin

You've got my vote!

[Maestro]

30. Okay but you must accept the fact

that I will treat all with respect, have a strict separation of Church and State; believe in the education and health care for all, have no official language, religion and all members of the government will have to give up their seats after six years, a little longer than the four we have now. This way no seated politician will have to worry about reelection. We are all out of there in six years.

[charlie]

32. Way cool

And if we'd lived long enough to see it, I'm sure most of us would be ecstatic with such a truly enlightened society :D

[Maestro]

35. Cool that is one vote.

How many millions more to go? ;)

[m berst]

31. things are moving much faster than that

20 years???? We won't get 20 weeks. That is, if you go by what everyone was saying here just a few weeks ago. What has happened since that is leading people to think that getting over this or moving on as though things were going to be more or less OK?

It is amazing isn't it that people here are more complacent today, after a text book case of a stolen election (which is being endlessly argued, debunked now blah, blah)than they were a couple of months ago.

Is it massive denial? Are people over-medicated? Paralyzed with fear? Clinging to the illusion of things that are now longer there?

"Song and dance" is how we are desribing the discussion about a stolen election now?

We may be spared the song and dance, but we won't be spared paying the piper, and the price is going to be a rude awakening for many I am afraid.

[Terran]

33. Don't think you're wrong.

It might take longer than 20 years, but I think you're correct, especially re China and the EU moving to dominate us economically. At this point, I don't quite see what they're waiting for, unless they fear our military lashing out against their bloodless takeover.

[Blue_Tires]

36. i also see a former USSR-style breakup

[Fifth of Five]

37. Sometimes I think that the best thing that could happen

to the US is for it to cease being the only "superpower" left. We are well on the way to becoming just one of many industrialized "equals."

Does the world really need a superpower? Will one rise to take the place of the US? Will it be a danger to the world, or a benevolent power? I don't think any superpower yet has acted benevolently (on the whole - there are individual examples). If we are not a superpower, does it mean the end of the US, or just the loss of prestige?

Any claim to moral superiority is gone, as is our claim to be the leading democracy in the world. Our military is spread incredibly thin, and we don't seem to know how to recognize, or even define, the enemy.

Financially, we are teetering on the edge - weak dollar and huge debt, which may grow exponentially over the next years if we continue down the path we have chosen.

If we were just one among many, instead of the world's lone superpower, would we would stop acting so arrogantly, and see the need to get along with the rest of the world?

Am I just depressed? Will things get better?

[libertad]

38. Is there a United States of America NOW?

Not really.