Could it be that Kerry conceded so that

[Ithuilwen]

when the issue of fraud breaks wide open, it will appear to the masses it is not one fueled by partisanship, but one fueled by a desire to protect democracy? That thought struck me as I was watching the Countdown segment for a second time (http://home.comcast.net/~hugh.moore/countdown_on_voting_irregs.wmv). Specifically, during this exchange:

OLBERMANN: Let me ask you bluntly. Do you think that what happened, what evidence there has been of irregularities in Ohio and Florida, altered the outcome of the presidential election?

CONYERS: I can‘t tell you yes or no because I haven‘t had the investigation yet. That‘s what we really need. I don‘t have any reason to suspect that‘s the case, because our candidate, Senator John Kerry, has conceded the election. What we‘re trying to do is improve the process, make American know that what happened in 2000 and now what is happening here are things that we‘re working on. We passed a federal election law, Help America Vote Act. But we see that there still lots of problems that have to be addressed.

(full transcript: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6442857/)

Conyers emphasized the democracy issue throughout the interview, and did his best to stamp out the possibility of any political motivations.

Thoughts?

[takumi]

1. Very Insightful Observation

Additionally, just because he conceded doesn't mean that if fraud charges 'stick' he couldn't be declared President!

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

39. "Conceding" has no legal standing

State Boards of Election certify the vote for the Electoral College, and that group votes on December 12 (?). Should the vote scandal erupt into something big (and I doubt there will be enough the change the outcome), Kerry could still be elected regardless of his conceding to Bush.

[MotownLew]

2. A stroke of brilliance? Conyers is tough. n/t

[rodeodance]

3. Keith to continue with voting reporting TOnight

from Olberman websit (Tuesday),, Nov 7
Naked promotional announcement

With 6000 emails and counting Keith will indeed be resuming his coverage of the voting irregularities in Ohio and Florida -- and elsewhere -- on this evening's edition of Countdown.

[cjbuchanan]

4. I don't think so

I think he conceded because he thought there was no way he could win. I think that some serious questions have come to light since he conceded, but because he has said that it is over, he can do little about it.

If we want to make this happen, we are the ones who have to do it.

[kostya]

10. Not so sure about that... here's why...

The Dems were not unprepared for another 2000 election fiasco. This time they literally had 1,000s of lawyers prepared ahead of time and running through various scenarios. Yeah, it's a long shot, but what if the early concession is part of a strategy worked out in contingency? It's hard to believe they didn't anticipate just this sort of thing happening. - K

[cjbuchanan]

19. I don't think it is part of a bigger contingency because...

By now, some of the bigger names should be talking about it. You know, get some media build up. I might be missing it, but the only folks I see talking about this are a few congressmen, a few liberal radio talk show hosts and blogs. For this to start gaining traction with the media at large, we need a few bigger names to start mentioning it. Even if it is to say "we don't know what's going on, so we are just going to look into it further." I don't see that happening.

I could be wrong, but I do not think there is a stealth plan in effect.

[kostya]

40. On further reflection, I agree. n/t

[AndyP]

16. I think he conceeded more

to not look like a whinning democrat. I agree that this may be an oppurtunity for us to make this process better (or at least less shitty).

[RobbyRoo]

5. Yes...

...in my fantasies. Hey it could happen.

BTW, wasn't Conyers the guy in F911 who said that they don't actually read the bills?

[Ithuilwen]

8. Yep!

He's a straight-shooter, no bones about it.

[RPM]

37. THAT PISSED ME OFF

goddamnit - if you arent reading the bills GET MORE INTERNS!!! HAVE SOMEBODY READ THE SHIT YOU PASS!!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Nixon 1960

if they have the evidence, they will come out, otherwise an enterprising historian may get to the bottom of this well after we are all dead and buried...

[Cobalt Violet]

7. Yes,

I don't think he needs to be called Senator Tinfoil by the right wing nuts for the next month while all this is still coming to light.

[The Blue Flower]

9. His concession is irrelevant

It's irrelevant to the process that will take place when the electors meet to submit the final tallies from their respective states. What happens if between now and then the vote counts are retallied and reveal fraud? It's possible (although not probable) that the electoral count would be recalibrated and he'd be certified the winner. That's why there has to be a push to investigate right now.

[Ithuilwen]

11. Isn't an investigation what Conyers and company are pushing?

I find it encouraging that members of Congress are taking at least some action right now.

[blue america]

17. Exactly, I think it was brilliant-conceeding

The fact is, Perception is Reality. Kerry looks gracious, not like the sore loser Gore was portrayed to be. But the concession is little more than a formality.

[RegexReader]

28. As I said before

This story is going to break before the Electoral College votes!!

RegexReader
$USA =~ s/Republican/Democrat/ig

[THUNDER HANDS]

12. the only problem is

the only way it'd be covered is if it's partisan. If half a million people protested in the streets won't get covered, then the only way to expose fraud would be for Kerry and the Dem leadership (what's ever left of it) to stand in front of a big backdrop with the word FRAUD written in big letters.

The media live for the game of politics, not the minute details of policy.

[Old and In the Way]

13. Democracy loses if people lose confidence that their vote counts.

Do Democrats or Republicans really want this? Don't we want a marketplace where the Party with better ideas and the majority support deserves to be rewarded?

For sporting types lurking here, if your team wins because the refs are being paid off by your team's GM, it kinda takes the bloom off the win, doesn't it? And eventually, the losers stop playing, so the game ends.

[Ithuilwen]

14. And perhaps this point will be the one capitalized

in the push for an investigation? It's a very good one, and it cannot be argued. Well, unless one wishes to argue against democracy.

[Redleg]

15. That's why the Rethugs don't want real democracy.

They have long resented the "black vote" and now they don't like the "non-Christian vote." I know I am painting with a broad brush here but if the moderate Repubs don't do something about their run-away party, it will run as a "White Christian" party.

[Ithuilwen]

18. kick

[Marymarg]

20. Agree

That was exactly what I thought when I heard Conyers say that. I felt he was making the point that this is nonpartison by pointing out that the Democratic no longer has a dog in this fight. Thus, pre-empting any poor loser complaints.

[Hubert Flottz]

21. Suppose a burglar broke into your house and stole all you stuff.

Then suppose that you in fact, knew who that thief was, but you didn't have quite the amount of evidence needed, to have him busted and put away for the robbery! Then suppose that you happened to see that same thief four years later, sneaking around your house for a few days, checking out the neighborhood and looking for ways to break into your house again and to steal you blind one more time! If you just got mad and walked out into the street and hit the thief with a baseball bat as soon as you saw him there, YOU would then be the one in trouble! You would no doubt end up suffering for bashing him and the thief would then become the victim and you the bad guy!

But suppose you laid back and kept an eye on the thief, until you caught him back inside your house again some night, loading up a sack full of your goodies! Then you could slowly walk up behind him and knock his legs out from under him, with your ball bat! Then you could call the cops to come and pick that thief up and you would then have the evidence to put the thief on trial and lock him up, so that he didn't EVER steal anything from anyone else again!

Once the cops get the thief down town and he's looking at about thirty years hard time, I'll bet he'd even start telling on some of the people who bought and resold the things he'd stolen for those four years! Hell who knows, you might even get all your stolen things back, once one rat starts to rat on the next one!

Folks, I may be wrong, but I think this thing is FAR from over! too many signs and red flags are telling me, the same thing my gut has been telling me! If the democrats learned one lesson over the last four years, that lesson was to make DAMNED sure you connect ALL the dots, before you try and make your case! I think this thing will come to a head very shortly now! If John Kerry is crazy, he's crazy like a fox!

[Ithuilwen]

22. Gorgeous analogy! nt

[kayell]

23. Kick for a good way of thinking about the possible strategy

[Old and In the Way]

26. Flottz, your crazy

and so am I. I, too, find it inconceivable that they wouldn't be prepared in this election after 2000/2002. Here's hoping that your right!

:toast:

[Hubert Flottz]

27. Like the song says!

Being crazy is all that's keeping me from going insane!

John Kerry was probably as crushed as you and I were, on 12/12/2000!

[FizzFuzz]

43. thank you, this makes alot of sense!

When I feel down, I remind myself, Kerry KNOWS they're the worst bunch of crooks and liars ever, he said it himself. I sure don't get the feeling that he's the sort to really roll over like a dead cockroach and say "oopsies oh well better luck next time" to them.

It makes much more sense to figure they are planning, than to think they're giving up.

Thanks!

[Ithuilwen]

24. kick again

[EdibleEgg]

25. I think he conceded because he had less votes

When you have less, you lose!

[Hubert Flottz]

29. Do You Think?

I mean Really?

[LittleClarkie]

32. He's not allowed to think yet

Not with 16 posts. He'll have to get back to us later.

[Hubert Flottz]

33. Already more posts than firing neurons!

Or is that Neurans?

[HuskerDem]

30. GOD I hope so.............. I'd be happy to take back everything I said

and sit down to a nice cold plate of crow. I would DANCE FOR JOY if this is true.

[mom-mad-about-bush]

31. So what can we do to facilitate this investigation?

I pray this is true and that every vote will count. I want to believe that we do still live in a democracy. But, what can we do? How will we know that people really are taking this seriously???

[Hubert Flottz]

34. Start emailing your congress critters!

If they are GOPers use mine they are:

Senator Robert C Byrd

Senator John D Rockefeller III

Tell them to count EVERY vote!

You can do a Google search and find their email addy!

[AgadorSparticus]

35. i hope and pray that you are right about the issue of voting fraud

busting wide open. i'm leaning 75/25 that our diligence will pay off. i'm slowly coming back from shock and a myriad of emotions this past week to DO something about this. i don't want to look back and have any regrets on being so pessimistic i didn't do enough to get the voting fraud issues out. i want to do as much as i can--no matter what the outcome will be.

[Ithuilwen]

36. third and final kick for the morning crowd

[Hubert Flottz]

38. The troops here lost the mighty Mo last night over countdown!

One TV show does not a Campaign make! Keith Oberman is still telling our story! If we lose hope EVERYTHING becomes hopeless!

KEEP HOPE ALIVE!

[FizzFuzz]

44. a dummm question from someone who doesn't watch TV

Who is mighty MO?

:dunce:

[Hubert Flottz]

45. MO-mentum

Strength or force gained by motion or through the development of events.

Oberman didn't have the "Election Fraud" story on at the beginning of his show, like he did the night before and his guests last night were a little on the weak side, in favor of learning the facts about the stolen election! The fact that Keith Oberman is still telling the story, when the rest of the mainstream media is not picking it up, gives me hope that things will go better for us soon!

[FizzFuzz]

46. I see..well I never have heard that nickname for momentum before

Is that something I should have picked up by now (so I can feel uninformed heh heh;) ) or is it a FLOTTZ(tm) original?

(Anyway, tangentially to the above issue, I just want to say Flottz. I love it. flottzflottzflottzflottzflotttttttzzzzzzzzzz. Woo! fun!!)

:D :hi:

[Carni]

41. Could be!

Anything is possible!

I am not sure I would agree with the strategy however because as per usual now anyone who thinks bush heisted the election is a "conspiracy nut"

It doesn't take a rocket scientist... to determine that computer voting, with no paper trail, is dangerous to Democracy and the media has a lot of balls talking about "conspiracies" IMO

[mom-mad-about-bush]

42. HAVE YOU SIGNED THE PETITION???

This is the petition that is going to congress...sign it, and pass it on. Thousands have signed already....

<http://www.petitiononline.com/uselect/petition.html>

[FizzFuzz]

47. signed. You should post this as a separate thread, get more people to see

it. Like in GD.