Decriminalize Cocaine?

[Iraqi_guy]

I assume most of you would want to decriminalize cocaine and or heroin.
Tell me why this wouldn't help out the drug dealers even more?

On edit:
I guess the whole point of this post was...if you're gonna try and keep drug users out of prison...you might as well legalize and not decriminalize something. otherwise you're just putting the money into the hands of the drug dealers easier instead of companies.
Come to think of it....some of you would probably prefer it goto the dealers as opposed to companies.....yikes....

[ChrisNYC]

1. They wouldn't have a a job

As drugs would be regulated and taxed and sold at stores.

[Iraqi_guy]

3. I said decriminalized, not legalized.

I guess I was mistaken....would you rather decriminalize or legalize Cocaine/Heroin?

[Walt Starr]

2. Learn from history

Repealing prohibition took the profit motive away from organized crime where alcohol was concerned.

I say legalize it all and tax it. Put it all under the auspices of the BATF and let it roll. Clean out the prisons and take the profits away from organized criminals.

[a_random_joel]

8. Yup

Walt is right on.

The illegal status of a drug does NOT affect its usage.

It only affects its price.

The War on Drugs is a failure; time to look at other options. Especially if they are more humane, not as costly, generate revenue, and free up cops and prisons to pursue and imprison REAL criminals.

Common sense.

[Terwilliger]

12. organized criminals? like the government?

drug companies?

[sendero]

50. that...

.... is the only sane thing to do, but I don't expect sanity in the "War on Some Drugs" to appear any time soon.

Too many people are making too much money just the way things are. And it isn't your street level dealer either.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

4. Theoretically it sounds great

In reality, I can't see it being anything but a distaster.

[Terwilliger]

11. how so?

what do you see as some of the problmes springing from relaxing the Draconian laws now in place?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

14. I'm all for ending the drug war

I just don't feel comfortable with cocaine or heroin being legal the same way that alcohol is - a multinational corporation advertizing cocaine on TV? I don't see how that's a good thing in any way. I've seen what heroin does to people, and anyone selling it is a sick bastard in my opinion.

The drug war that puts people in jail for doing drugs is wrong and I want it to end, don't get me wrong.

[Terwilliger]

17. Legalizing does NOT mean that everybody's going to do it

it means that those who do can get help if they need it, and not be forced to be criminals themselves because of their addiction problems

As bad as alcohol can be, is everybody a drunk? Its been re-lagalized for 70 years...is it a rampant problem? People falling down drunk in the street?...doctors operating drunk?...school bus drivers driving drunk? (well, a few fall down in the street)

[JohnKleeb]

19. terwill got it down man

reminds me of an article in the school paper this kid was saying that even if we legalized drugs most wouldnt do it because of what they know. Thanks that was a great point.

[Terwilliger]

23. and, moreover...

you'll have a much higher moral ground as a parent or teacher trying to keep a kid away from these drugs, if they don't see you as trying to keep them from something (kids are naturally inquisitive, ya know ;-) )

If drugs are legal, then the specific problems surrounding the use of these drugs can be addressed...and they are FAR less damaging than the Drug War.

[JohnKleeb]

28. I see what you mean

You know my old joke dont you
Why republicans hate marijuana and wanna ban it yet they lobby for the Tobacco industry because everyone knows pot is better heh.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

24. yes, yes, and yes

People falling down drunk in the street?...yes

doctors operating drunk?...yes

school bus drivers driving drunk?...yes

Alcoholism is a serious problem in the US. I think prohibition would be worse of course.

I guess I'll come out for decriminization of hard drugs, but I don't think legalizing heroin or cocaine is a good idea.

[Terwilliger]

31. not as serious as all that

and just because of those few incidences, doesnt mean that doctors are operating drunk en masse. Thats been the whole argument for the drug war: hysterical (NO OFFENSE) reaction to the excesses of a few individuals

95% of the people who use drugs dont have a problem with them. Its the focus on the few that cant cope that people focus on. Now, that wouldn't be so bad except that alcohol and tobacco (wholly devoid of any medical benefit) are legal. The hypocrisy must out.

[Brian Sweat]

110. The fallacy of your position is that it assume that

cocaine is less available now as a result of criminalization than it would be if it were legal. This is simply not the case.

[Warpy]

26. Your reality is a theory

We old crocks who lived through the 1960s saw the widespread use of every illegal substance imaginable, yet there wasn't an increase in the percentage of the population who went on to become hardcore drug addicts. Most tried hard drugs a few times and then wandered away into real life.

My guess has always been that there's something going on with brain chemistry that nobody has ever bothered to study, although they do know the addiction pathways pretty well in addicted subjects.

The disaster is happening right NOW, with prisons overpopulated with nonviolent drug offenders while violent criminals get early release due to overcrowding. The disaster is also the street crime we're facing every day, and that crime is increasing. The disaster is also a generation of kids who think selling dope on the corner is the easy way to riches, and why should they bother learning anything else?

This is insanity. It's time stop it and try something more humane.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

34. Yes, decriminalize. Allow corporations to market and sell hard drugs?

I don't think that's a good idea.

[Terwilliger]

40. no wonder you dont think thats a good idea

All drugs used to be legal in this country, and drugs were openly advertised and marketed. It became a problem when white housewives all became druggies that the country gave a damn to begin with.

The actual criminalization STILL only came about because of race-baiting.

[sendero]

54. I missed...

... that part. Just as advertising of liquor is controlled, any advertising (if any, I'd be happy with a ban on traditional advertising) would also have to be tightly controlled.

When people are psychologically manipulated into buying a car, that is one thing, being manipulated into using drugs would be quite another.

[Demobrat]

5. I wouldn't. I think pot should be legal.

Nobody ever died from smoking too much pot. But cocaine is nasty stuff. Ditto heroin. They shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as MJ.

[Aaron]

6. Reasons to legalize heroin

I know OP said decrim but legalization at least with heroin seems like a reasonable solution. I don't know alot about cocaine so I can't comment on that much, although if it's anything like heroin maybe it can treated similarly - or perhaps like marijuana would be if that was legalized.

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030710/USHOTSM/TPHealth/
Safe drug-use site saves lives, study says
<snip>
However, the report of an independent evaluation committee, released yesterday, has impressed neither Australian Prime Minister John Howard nor Sydney business owners near the site of the trial.
The report said a drug-injection room that opened in the inner Sydney suburb of Kings Cross in May, 2001, had saved lives, and got addicts into treatment programs.
It also said the facility, operated by the Uniting Church, had not resulted in any increase in the incidence of drug use or drug-related crime in the area.

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98.n701.a04.html

That one is an editorial from an Australian paper regarding injection clinics with some information on clinics in Germany that have a variety of benefits to users including lower HIV rates, lower OD rates, greater access to social services, and less drug-related crime.

[m_h_lovecraft]

7. My concern

My problem with cocaine and heroin lies in the known quantities:
a. Cocaine & heroin are ferociously addictive and potentially lethal
b. Cocaine & heroin, though of naturally occurring raw materials, are thoroughly processed synthetics that contain, especially in the case of cocaine, volatile, poisonous chemicals
c. Cocaine & heroin drive stupid, dangerous and risky behaviors as a matter of fact making them antisocial drugs
There are possible arguments that are on par or equivalent in regards to marijuana, but there is less support to these arguments. I would say an experiment in marijuana decriminalization would have far less negative social impact. Hence I have serious misgivings about decriminalizing cocaine & heroin, while I would fully support the decriminalization of marijuana.

[Terwilliger]

18. decriminalize nothing...legalize

decriminalization does NOTHING to address the problems associated with the drug war

My problem with a. is that the government has cocaine on Schedule II, so its apparently not bad enough that doctors cant prescribe it.

Pot is Schedule I, by the way :crazy:

[m_h_lovecraft]

27. Pondering

Ultimate legalization of pot, but I believe in small steps.
Do I agree with the way cocaine and heroin are dealt with in relation to the way MJ is? Absolutely not. And I guess in retrospect I would be for the decriminalization of cocaine and heroin, as long as there were programs and a social structure in place that would aid those who fall prey to them. Criminal actions, those that harm others, are already codified so what difference should the motivation have in punishment? So, okay - I would say decriminalize, if only for the fact that a murder is a murder, a robbery a robbery. Then again, this is why I am opposed to hate-crime laws.

Now, an anecdote as to why I am a baby-stepper...
Alaskan were faced with the prospect of re-decriminalizing only a couple years ago. The movement lost at the ballot box because of the way it was written. It asked for way too much -- specifically financial reparations made to those who were arrested and sentenced under the current laws. In doing this, the voters were turned off. Add to that all those in full and vociferous support of the measure were reportedly too lazy or too stoned to get out the vote.

[Terwilliger]

38. reportedly?

who the hell reported that?

The reparaations idea was over the top, but only because the people who haven't suffered criminal penalties for their alcohol and cigarrette usage couldn't relate. I've paid a $300 fine for possession of cannabis before...if it turns out that the law was bogus and criminal itself, shouldn't I get my money back?

[m_h_lovecraft]

42. You've nailed my point though

Because they couldn't relate.
No need to get bristly with me, though. I admit that "reportedly" has come from second person pot-smoker anecdotes. That's why I used the word reportedly.
As for bogus, the law is the law and there is nothing you can say or do that will ever convince a majority of the populace that the law itself was criminal to the point of deserving reparations in this regard. In a similar vein, African-Americans will never see dime one of reparations. Let them go free, fine, hear-hear. Let them file a lawsuit, class action even, double cool by me. But the movement was clearly damaged by asking for too much all at once.
I hear ya, I'm more on your side than you might realize.

on edit: subject line -- added word "point"

[Terwilliger]

49. my point is

slavery used to be the norm, and you couldn't be a black man without having a white owner....

Did that make the laws ok?

People vote for George W. Bush, but we can't criminalize that, can we?

[m_h_lovecraft]

53. Fine, I yield.

I see your point, I agree with your viewpoint, but I respectfully must disagree with your method. Slaves were freed, without any promise of reparations and it took painful baby steps to get blacks to where they are today. They didn't wake up one morning and everything was hunky-dory, things still aren't. Progress.

[McDiggy]

108. ....no...

Quote from Terwilliger:
---------------------------------------------
decriminalization does NOTHING to address the problems associated with the drug war

My problem with a. is that the government has cocaine on Schedule II, so its apparently not bad enough that doctors cant prescribe it.

Pot is Schedule I, by the way :crazy:
---------------------------------------------


Cocaine is only used as a topical anesthetic; but because of it's addictive properties is schedule II. Marinol (marijuana in pill form) is schedule III, meaning while dependancy is still likely, it isn't as likely in the case of a schedule II.

The difference between schedule I and schedule II isn't so much as how bad it is, it's just how medically useful it is. Thus, Morphine, Demerol, and Oxycontin, being wonderful analgesics are schedule II because they have a use, yet are VERY, VERY addictive and destructive when abused. Heroin and crack are schedule I because they have been deemed by the FDA to have no medicinal value while having the same negative properties of schedule II narcotics.

Oh, and legalization of cocaine is the dumbest idea I've ever heard. People addicted to crack will do, literally, ANYTHING to aquire more. Unless you can say you've had a crack-headed stepfather that literally tried to sell your HOUSE for crack, please stop pretending it is some sort of atrocity against your civil rights. It should be made in no way any easier to get. You can play the "it's my body, I'll destroy it if I want to" card all you want, that's not the issue, it's what it does to the person's family and friends emotionally, finacially, and, sometimes in more depressing cases, physically.

Marijuana could be legalized, I would see no problem in that, just as long as you stay inside your homes while using it and don't drive or try to operate a frickin forklift or anything. It's not a millionth as addicting as cocaine and is relatively harmless.

McDiggy
Pharmacy Intern
Stepson of crack addict.

[a_random_joel]

109. Swing... and a miss.

People addicted to crack will do, literally, ANYTHING to aquire more. Unless you can say you've had a crack-headed stepfather that literally tried to sell your HOUSE for crack

Was cocaine illegal? Did illegality stop your stepfather?

There is reason to believe that crack cocaine is a direct outcome of the drugwar.

I firmly believe that your stepfather would have had a much higher chance of rehabilitation were crack legal.

One more time for the cheap seats.
ILLEGALITY does not affect usage. It only affects price.

We tried it your way, it's not working. Time to try other options. It's not as if we don't already have the infrastructure in place to turn back if legalization does not work.

This is your brain. This is your brain justifying and making excuses for the failed drug war.

Any questions?

[GumboYaYa]

9. I have fought the demons

of cocaine and won. I have friends who lost. Some of them are dead.
My stoner friends are all living and looking forward to long lives.

Cocaine and Marijuana are two entirely different drugs. I strongly support legalizing marijuana. I strongly oppose legalizing cocaine. The sole basis of my argument is the tremendously different way both drugs affected my life.

[a_random_joel]

69. Was cocaine illegal at the time?

Did its illegality stop your or your friends use?

I too have lost friends to drugs - heroin and speed. I believe they are the most evil drugs in the world. But the War on Drugs did not stop their deaths, or in the case of my speed addicted best friend, the collapse of his cognitive functionality.

In fact, were drugs legal or at least decriminalized, I strongly believe all these friends would still be here today. As they would have had a much better chance at humane rehabilitation, no fear of punishment, and likely would not have gotten "bad" shit.

There are many other logical reasons why legalization makes sense - even some conservatives and law enforcement folk are coming around.

[GumboYaYa]

81. Of course it was and I know a lot of people

who did not use it because it was so expensive. No one can argue that illegality doesn't make drugs more expensive and with cocaine the price is a deterent. That also creates crime and I understand the negatives associated withthe high costs of drugs.

I am for anything that reduces the use of cocaine. If you can show me that decriminalization or making coke and heroin legal will achieve this, I will become an advocate for your cause.

I do vehemently oppose the draconian and racist penalties for dealing drugs.

[a_random_joel]

106. Whether it reduces cocaine remains to be seen.

It should not be the focus. Practical, humane solutions should be the focus.

When a user does cocaine - it primarily fucks up their life. If it was legal, at least the rest of us would not be affected by:
a. Drug warfare between rival gangs
b. Other drug crime
c. Over crowded prisons full of non-violent offenders
d. Cops wasting time and resources going after non-violent offenders
e. Lost tax revenue
g. Wasted funds fighting a pointless war

It's really quite simple.

[silverlib]

114. An emotional subject -

The more information I get from both sides of this issue, the more torn I am. Still haven't made a decision, but I do have "leanings." My husband lost both his children in the 80's. His daughter was 16 and stabbed in a bad cocaine deal, died of hepatitis related to the stab wound and use of heroine. His son was murdered in 1989 at the age of 22- owed a pusher too much money. He died three weeks before his only child was born. My husband and I are raising her and she is healthy and happy. Would legalization perhaps taken away the outcomes? Or were they on a course of self destruction? Can I support legalization - maybe someday. Can I support decriminalization? Maybe more so than legalization. Tens of thousands of dollars were spent on rehabiliation that did not work. Much of the money spent was out of pocket - the money saved when the house the keys to the house were sent back to the mortgage company. Some of it was covered by insurance. None of it was from social programs. I believe that however this is handled, government dollars will be needed. If the government saves millions by keeping people out of jails and spends the money on good rehabilitaion, that's one thing. But if they use the savings to support the war and give big corporations more tax breaks, that is another.

[Terwilliger]

10. No...legalize

then the drug dealers can be called Merck, Lilly, and Pfizer...who were the cause of the ban in the first place

[shanti]

13. why in the world do you think that

most of the DU'ers would want this legalized? you're comparing it to mj - two TOTALLY different animals!

[blue america]

15. I'm not a Legal Expert

but I'm assuming by "decriminilize" you mean end the ridiculous punishments for possession. If so, I completely agree. I fully support LEGALIZATION of marijuana, and not just medically. I don't believe in ANY prison time for any drug use. I wouldn't treat blow like Pot though. It's fun and all, but very dangerous.

[Terwilliger]

20. and wholly up to the individual whether s/he does it or not

cocaine, cannabis, heroin...doesnt matter what it is, legalize it. The problems stem from the illegality, not from the drugs themselves.

[GumboYaYa]

29. That's where you are wrong.

there is a point where it really isn't up to the individual whether you do cocaine or heroin. That is why these drugs are so dangerous.

I'm sorry but cocaine is a very dangerous drug. One use can kill you. It can also make your brain overheat and make you a vegetable the rest of your life (you don't want to hear the story of how I know that).

Cocaine is not a benign drug. One use can ruin your life. Addiction to coke is a horrible, horrible thing.

[Terwilliger]

35. yep...legalize it

Research it, study it, teach the children well...but dont make criminals out of people who have done nothing to deserve that treatment.

I've done cocaine before and it didn't kill me (though I havent done it again). I do know someone that had a heart attack after ingesting one aspirin. Shall we make criminals out of aspirin users?

[GumboYaYa]

39. Watch your buddy go into convulsions,

take him to the hospital, and then call his parents to tell them what happened because you are his only friend who isn't so whacked out on coke that you still have a sense of decency. Watch your buddy who was once full of life try to learn to hold a fork. After you have done that come back and tell me it is okay to sell cocaine legally to people.

Cocaine has been studied for years and we know it is dangerous. That is why it should be illegal.

[Terwilliger]

41. Many drugs are dangerous

so what? criminalize them?

Cars, used improperly, can do serious damage...not only to yourself, but to many around you. Should you ban their usage? Make criminals out of the users?

By the way, if your friend did one snort and got all whacked out, he wasn't doing straight cocaine, or he had other problems.

[GumboYaYa]

48. It is illegal to possess most

dangerous drugs. In some cases they can be presacribed, but it is illegal to have them withoutr a prescription.

Cars are regulated and dangerous use of cars is illegal. Have you heard of the speed limit, traffic lights, etc.

Most states require motorcylists to wear helmets.

Sometimes the societal cost of an activity is so high that it is illegal to discourage the activity. If you can show me how legalizing cocaine will reduce its use, I will agree with you. I haven't heard any real data on this.

And it was way more than one line, but the point is that cocaine can really f*ck you up.

[Terwilliger]

52. I know it can f*ck you up

but that's no reason to make it criminal to use it

[RevolutionStartsNow]

65. There's no redeeming value to coke

Far as I've seen, it ONLY does harm. There are very few recreational coke users out there, or at least they aren't for long. They either realize it's stupid and stop or they become addicted, which leads to one of three things: recovery, prison or death. There's no happy ending with this drug, and I speak from experience.

However I think the drug laws in this country can be outrageous. Addiction is a disease, and should be treated as such. Dealing is a crime, and should remain so, but the laws should be fair.

[Terwilliger]

66. well...I wont argue with ya *GASP*

suffice it to say, I think your information, and the basis for your reasoning, is flawed

[RevolutionStartsNow]

88. The basis for my reasoning

is personal experience. Enough said. Cocaine kills. It is not like pot. I support decriminalization of marijuana, though I don't use it myself anymore. But cocaine is in another category entirely, and should remain so.

[Terwilliger]

94. but aspirin kills

BAN IT!

Do you see the problem yet?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

102. Aspirin, cars, etc. are NOT the same as cocaine

Millions of people use aspirin their whole lives without dying. Same with driving cars or any other analogy you can think of.

Cocaine use -- in the majority of cases, not all cases -- generally leads to death, prison or (hopefully) recovery.

Put it this way: I would give my kids aspirin for a headache. I will teach them to drive when they are old enough. But I would NOT want them to ever use coke.

[a_random_joel]

104. Cocaine kills

Legal or illegal.
Its legal status does not affect its use.
By legalizing it, or at least decriminalizing:
a. Fear of retribution is absent; greater likelihood of seeking rehab
b. Drugs "cut" with shit go bye-bye
c. Profits go bye-bye

It's not rocket science.

[a_random_joel]

70. Illegality does not stop use.

Your argument is pointless.

[Speed8098]

83. I'm sorry

But your story sounds like what the D.A.R.E. officer at my daughters school tells to scare the bejesus out of the kids.

I had a friend years ago that we called "Odee". We called him that because he had a bad habit of coming to your house, going to your bathroom and dying. "Odee" was really O. D., as in overdose.

This guy is now a pillar of his community, but I performed CPR on him more than once in our youth.

I'm telling you this story because I think making all drugs legal will make stories like this obsolete.

Think of the benefits of using all of the money, spent on the "War on Drugs" , on rehabilitation and prevention.

Prevention starts at home.

I, as a parent have made it clear that cocaine and heroin are really bad, and that you can indeed die from it's use, and I keep an open line of communication with my daughter. However I'm not everyones parent, and neither is the U.S. Government.



We call ourselves a free society, but that is an illusion. Step outside your front door and smoke a joint as a cop is passing by and watch him salivate at the idea of "busting a drugee".

It has to end.

There are too many good people in prison because they got caught up in the "fast money" life that illegal drugs offer.

Legalization would get rid of the kids on the corner.
They would have no customers.
The police could focus on the real crimes.


If the legal distributors are trained properly to spot potential addicts and intervene, the problems would probably be much less than what they are today.

I personally am a 35 year pot smoker. I control 15 million dollars in sales annually and show an increase in sales every year.

I am active in my community.

Who would benefit from me being in jail?

[GumboYaYa]

85. I have no problem with pot smoking.

I have regularly smoked pot for over twenty years. I'm no tight ass anti-drug person. Hell, I'm stoned right now. If there are any more inane laws than the marijuana laws I can't think of them.

I have also lived through coke addiction. I have had experiences that would make your hair stand on end. Coke and marijuana are two entirely different drugs. Some of the stories they tell your daughter are true, although it is mixed with a lot of propoganda too.

If someone can show me that legalizing coke will reduce its use and availability, I am 100 percent for it.

[Speed8098]

86. If someone can show me that legalizing coke will reduce its use......

As I said in my other post.

The money now used for the "War on Drugs" could be used for prevention and rehabilitation. That alone would make a difference.

In some cases, if you take away the intrigue of doing something illegal, you take away the temptation to do it.

Some kids turn to drugs as a way to rebel.

[GumboYaYa]

87. How do you sell it?

and how would it be regulated? It seems awfully dangerous to be selling little gram bags at 7-11? I have no understanding of how proponents of legalization envision responsibly distributing cocaine to the general public.

If you were going to distribute it in any responsible way, it would seem like there would need to be significant restrictions on the method and the places were it could be used. Would the restrictions themselves create another black market or underground?

I see the theoretical point of your argment, but that could be achieved also by simply investing more money and effort into rehabilitation and treatment now, without making drugs legal.

I am also totally opposed to the draconian penalties. I think they are racists and unreasonable, but that doesn't mean there should not be some penalty or treatment for selling drugs. I also believe that we should invest heavily in communities were drugs are prevalent to create other econmic opportunities aside from selling drugs.

I just can't get past the notion that it is really dangerous to let people have unfettered access to cocains.

[Allah Akbar]

97. I have known many that destroyed their lives with alcohol

WHy is that legal? :shrug:

We found out prohibition doesn't work. A pig is still a pig even if you dress it up and put lipstick on it. Or call it a "War on Drugs"

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

99. totally and utterly wrong

"The problems stem from the illegality, not from the drugs themselves"

No, the problems with cocaine and heroin are that they are incredibly addictive, toxic, and dangerous substances. The drug war makes it worse, and corporations pushing them will make it worse too - JUST like you admitted in your previous post about when white women started getting addicted. I don't want to go back to the days when Coca-Cola sold dope in every corner store in America, and the widespread addiction that was the result.

Remember the opium war? You really want corporations and the government getting together to hook whole populations on hard drugs? No thanks.

There is nothing liberating nor libertarian about addiction.

[solinvictus]

16. Nope

I would not decriminalize either drug. Studies have proven over and again that these substances are very addictive and ruin lives.

[Terwilliger]

25. so does alcohol

BAN IT!

Oxycontin

BAN IT!

people use drugs because they want to...only some people go to the hospital or the clinic, while others get sent to jail (unless they're the daughter of a Florida governor, then they'll get treatment and not have to face society's consequences)

[ursacorwin]

30. reclassify

change it from something that lands you in jail, to something that mandates treatment time. the kind that works. and you stick with it until it does. it's a tough, ugly issue but we've got to open our minds if we're serious about solutions.

decriminalize in the sense that yes, the big bad government steps in and (openly admits) its role in distribution. centers for those who are already addicted, not prisons but medical treatment havens, where these kinds of drugs are found. real help in the form of counseling, medication, nuturional therapy, and long term life skills assesment. but no more street dealing. and no use for first timers- this is the hard part but there's no reason why helping addicts means we have to make more to do so.

fantasy? i suppose. but think of how much money is out there being spent on these drugs- billions, if not trillions globally. treatment centers could be paid for by revenue generated by those who are currently buying the stuff, when they are allowed to take treatment as opposed to going to prison. also, diversion of funds currently spent on prisons as they are reorganzied and all the drug related criminals are released. further savings in military and intel costs following the elimination of useless and corrupt programs currently operating under the guise of 'interdiction.' the money is there, it's a matter of will and priorities.

and finally, a real, effective national campaign on the true nature of drug use. factual, sensible, starting with young children. identification of areas most in need of supportive social, education and economic programs (rural and urban) which currently suffer from a lack of them and demostrate a high degree of drug use. inclusion of *all* addictive substances, pharmacutical as well as street, within this program. and an attitude that is devoid of religious or ideological motivations, and instead is based on medical science and the desire to make people well and whole.

but i'm a radical...

[Terwilliger]

43. your suggestions are entirely workable and logical

which is why our government could NEVER support such an idea :eyes:

[ursacorwin]

47. Thanks!

i've thought a lot about it and my mom is a country doctor, we talk about the hidden truth of the drug situation in this country all the time.

i think it's sad that the rhetoric has hijacked the discussion, and made it impossible to even talk about alternative scenarios. witness some on the thread who think pot is often laced with coke. sigh.

[Terwilliger]

51. oh, but it is!

because...cocaine being several hundred times more expensive than marijuana makes lacing joints cost effective :eyes:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

68. Great ideas

...and incredibly reasonable and logical.

A major shift in our approach to drug addiction is what's needed.

[Warpy]

32. You're not my nanny, son. EOM

[Chicagonian]

21. Never Assume.

I favour the de-criminalization/legalization of pot, but something as potentially lethal and addictive as cocaine or heroin(or alcohol for that matter) I'm not so keen about.

I would have pot legalized, but even harsher penalties for coke and smack. I'd also make the penalties equal for crack and powder coke.

[Warpy]

22. At the very worst

...street dealers would have to turn to other crime, as people who use psychoactive drugs would rather have a supply with a reliable dosage and which isn't cut with Drano.

At the best, those drug dealers would BE the new marketers, have to put on suits and pay taxes like the rest of us slobs.

The latter would be worth paying to see.

[The Backlash Cometh]

33. You're going to get bombarded.

This is not a forum for anyone who wants anything less than full legalization.

However, people (like judges and public defenders) who have seen young kids destroy their lives because of addictions will fight tooth and nail to keep any drug from being truly legalized. And to them I say, God Bless you.

Anyone who thinks that marijuana is not a gateway drug has forgotten how often marijuana gets laced with cocaine, which is addictive.

[m_h_lovecraft]

36. My gateway drug

I think your wrong and you've bought into the all-drugs-are-evil hype.
Lacing isn't a free service. Lacing is an urban myth.
My gateway drug was nicotine.

[The Backlash Cometh]

75. Go to juvie court,

and ask the police what they're seeing coming off the streets. If you're using, you should get informed.

[mitchum]

37. Funny...it's always seemed to me that refined sugar is actually...

the gateway drug.
BTW: can you put me in touch with these connections who secretly lace marijuana with cocaine? I'm always looking to save money.

[The Backlash Cometh]

76. If you're already a steady customer,

why would they waste it on you?

[mitchum]

103. I've certainly done enough blow...

to know if weed is laced with it. It's not. This is a new old wives' tale

[Iraqi_guy]

112. refined sugar?

now you guys are just making shit up.

[slackmaster]

44. In 30 years I have yet to see cannabis sold that way

I've seen people mix the two deliberately, but never seen anyone "dosed" with cocaine without their knowledge. Maybe things have changed since I was young and careless, but the crowd I hung around with always considered cocaine to be an expensive luxury item and not something to be given out willy-nilly for free.

Marijuana is no more a "gateway" drug to cocaine or any other drug than alcohol is.

[The Backlash Cometh]

74. I sat in on juvie court recently.

They police get the real thing. It was pretty sad.

[Terwilliger]

46. Anyone who thinks that milk is not THE gateway drug...

do you see my point yet?

Lives are ruined by alcohol and cigarrettes, yet they are perefectly legal.

Let's talk about how many pharmaceutical drugs are wholly addictive and often misprescribed, but lets not talk about prohibiting them...oh of course not.

So...

To each his/her own. 95% of drug users can handle their use. They've reported recently that every Euro in Europe has traces of cocaine. There are TONS of people doing cocaine, yet somehow they make something with their lives. Don't criminalize a group of people because some can't handle it or don't know what they're doing.

[slackmaster]

56. Gee Terwilliger, I agree 100% with your post

Don't criminalize a group of people because some can't handle it or don't know what they're doing.

Perhaps you would consider granting gun owners the same consideration.

O8)

[Terwilliger]

61. nahh

IMDLY? (Is My Drug Legal Yet?)

[slackmaster]

67. CIBAAR15ICY?

Can I buy another AR-15 in California yet?

[Terwilliger]

89. there you go again

You cant have your AR-15? I can't have my M1-Abrams.

You still try to equate these two totally disparate things. Most guns are legal but, of no! You cant get a sub-machinegun!

That's like saying all pot is legal EXCEPT Northern Lights...therefore they're keeping me from my weed! Piss poor gunny logic :eyes:

[Chicagonian]

58. Alcohol & tobacco are the #1 & 2 illegally used gateway drugs

since most people get started with at least one of those substances in one form or another before they ever touch pot...and since they almost always get started before they are of legal age to do so, alcohol and tobacco are by far the most commonly illegally used gateway substances.

[The Backlash Cometh]

77. Alcohol, without question, is the more troublesome of the two.

Families are destroyed when someone in the family has an alcohol problem, and not too surprisingly, restrictions on alcohol use and driving and, penalties that follow, are getting steeper. MADD has done an effective job at whittling away what passes for "social drinking."

But then again, young dead bodies make very compelling evidence.

[Chicagonian]

55. your Ignorance on the topic shows-

"Anyone who thinks that marijuana is not a gateway drug has forgotten how often marijuana gets laced with cocaine, which is addictive."

Ummmm...like, where do they sell all this cocaine-laced pot?(the answer is NOWHERE.)
we used to do bong hits with a little bit of coke or crushed up quaalude(those were the days) on top...but it is NEVER sold that way-
you may be confusing cocaine with PCP, which some pot supposedly used to be 'spiked' with. but again,it was something I've never actually seen or experienced, and I've smoked pot for almost twice as many years as I didn't...

[The Backlash Cometh]

78. Go to the police and ask them what they're seeing on the streets.

*

[Terwilliger]

90. the police are TOTALLY unsuited to make a realistic analysis

a lot of their jobs rtequire that the drug war continue...NOT a good person to ask

[The Backlash Cometh]

101. Okay, how about their moms?

Let me guess. You're going to say it's their fault their kids are using.

[Allah Akbar]

98. In the words of Jay and Silent Bob

Fuck the Po-lice

[sendero]

57. there's that...

... "for the kids" stuff, always easy to dismiss.

Legalization or not will have zero, zero effect on kids' use, which would of course remain illegal. That illegality would stop the same number of kids it stops now.

And yes, I have kids, 3 of them.

[Chicagonian]

59. surveys have shown that kids find pot easier to get than booze or cigs.

since there's nobody standing on the corner selling those things to them, since there's no market for it, since people who want it can buy it just fine in the store.
Legalization works.

[Terwilliger]

62. actually that's not right

legalization will eventually make pot use very minimal

half of the drive for kids to try things like pot is their illegality

When older folks go around screaming about how bad something is for you, kids say "oh yeah? lemme see!" You m,ake it legal, then you can talk about what harms go along with use, and the kids can make more rational decisions.

Does it mean that kids will stop using, or not even try pot? I doubt that, but with it being legal, they can't be as afraid to talk to parents or teachers about it when they have questions.

Legalization will eventually dry up the usage, and it will surely be less noticed when there aren't stupid commericals on television of scantily clad young girls pounding the kitchen with a frying pan. Hell, that just makes them WANT it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

79. What about the children who don't use it because it's illegal?

They do exist, you know.

[Terwilliger]

91. 2 out of 100?

They exist, so LETS THROW EVERYBODY IN JAIL!

DAMMIT! People are eating at McDonald's again...BAN IT! :eyes:

[The Backlash Cometh]

95. Be fair.

This is why you'll always lose to the conservatives on this issue. Be realistic, at least. It will earn you more credibility.

Jail isn't the answer. Rehabilitation is the better choice.

[a_random_joel]

71. Gateway drug, HAH!

Not if it were legal, my friend...

Sex is a gateway drug.
Being cool is a gateway drug.
Loneliness is a gateway drug.
Abuse is a gateway drug.
Nicotine is a gateway drug.
Prescription drugs are gateway drugs.
Alcohol is a gateway drug.
Fraternities and soroities are gateway drugs.
Finding out the big lie about Marijuana (that it is so harmful)is a gateway drug.
A mediocre life is a gateway drug.
Boredom is a gateway drug.

Shall I keep going?

[The Backlash Cometh]

80. I feel your pain,

however, you'll have to be more wiley and organized if you wish to mount a successful counter-attack against those who have to deal with those who "can't handle the drugs" as well as you can.

[Terwilliger]

92. you seem to think drug use is a rampant problem

that's more prohibitionist nonsense

[The Backlash Cometh]

96. Well, Terwilliger seems to think so.

And he's no prohibitionist.

[a_random_joel]

105. I don't use drugs

I haven't for almost a decade.

As for those who can't handle the drugs, there is a greater likelihood they would be able to get the help that they need, and would be more open to the idea, if drugs were legal.

Tax the drugs, revenue generated goes toward rehab(among other things), less stigma against drugs particularly in law enforcement means users are more willing to seek help - no fear of retribution.

The war on drugs is one of the biggest failures of the modern era.

Let's cut our losses, and actually start HELPING people.

[m_h_lovecraft]

45. Ultimately though

LET THE STATES DECIDE.
The US Constitution allows States to dictate the health and welfare of its citizens (to a certain degree). Take it all off the Federal table -- it is not theirs to decide, and the Interstate Commerce Clause is not a valid justification.

[jhfenton]

64. I agree

The war on drugs needs to come to an end. At the federal level, decriminalize the currently illegal drugs. Let each state create its own drug laws. We'll see for ourselves which systems work best to reduce drug use and crime.

[Chicagonian]

60. Never mind.

I'm glad things are easier to edit on this new forum software...For some reason, I thought that a bunch of earlier posts had been deleted by the mods, or something...because when i pulled up the post- they weren't there....but now they are...strange...

[Terwilliger]

63. its the pot, dude

GIMME SOME!

[aneerkoinos]

72. My thoughts

LEGALIZE them.

But keep them governement controlled, heroin and cocaine to be sold only at pharmacies, for certified addicts. Some black market will remain, but now fueled from the pharmacies and doctors so the stuff will be pure and not in hands of mafia, so situation 100 times better than current.

The main point is to take the market away from mafia.

COCA LEAF and poppy OPIUM to be sold commercially together with pot. Advertizing not allowed. Possibly keep them in governement monopoly. Ban tobacco advertizing, possibly make tobacco governement monopoly. Monopoly means license to sell, everybody can of course grow the stuff for personal use.

A vot, The social drug problem is solved! Sure, there will be allways the 10% minority that develop addiction problems with any substance or habit, but treatment is easier when there is no fear of police or debt collecting mafia.

[Terwilliger]

93. thats not legalizing anything

thats saying only people who currently use them (addicts no less) can have them...thats legalizing? Dont think so.

[aneerkoinos]

100. How do you define legal then?

Are you saying that prescription drugs are illegal?

What I'm suggesting treat them just like all other potentially dangerous pharmaceutical products, to be issued only on doctors orders.

[Nikia]

73. I hesistate to legalize cocaine

I would like to say that it is one's right to put in one's body whatever one chooses but cocaine is not good stuff. I don't think that it is something that should be sitting on shelves at stores for anyone to buy. The path of a cocaine addict is death and we should not provide that option to more people. Also, I think that there would be a number of first time user deaths if it were sold at the store. Most people who try cocaine or other dangerous drugs for the first time do so with people who are already experienced in using the drug. If it were legal, there were would a greater number of people who would try it for the first time on their own and might have unexpected complications or take too much. I had a friend that is a coke addict that I no longer see because I am afraid to be alone with him and my husband and mutual friends no longer want to hang around with him because he gets paranoid and has even gotten violent. He had a heart attack and relgiously takes his medicines and eats healthy but cannot take the advice to quit coke. I have a good friend who has lost many of his childhood friends to it. Of course it would be better for users to be treated rather than jailed. I support that but not for open sales to everyone.
Marijuana, on the otherhand, is a relatively safe drug. A first time user who users to much might not have a good time, but he or she will not die and will feel better in a few hours. Most pot users become more sociable and less violent after smoking it. Many regular marijuana smokers can be just as productive, happy, and healthy as anyone else. Regular marijuana use does not lead to death (aside from possible lung cancer which is less likely than with cigareetes). There is no danger in selling it openly and fully legalizing it. It is only a gateway drug because it is sometimes sold by people who sell other drugs. In fact, after several marijuana raids around the area, we were unable to find pot but were offered coke. If we were experimental teenagers, we might have took the dealer up on the offer which I am several did.

[NicRic]

82. Must have alternative to jail !!!!

Certain drugs like coke , crank , I do not believe you could legalize ,they really are very dangerous and some people that use it become paranoid and a danger to themselves and others .Now pot should be leagal ,its far less dangerous the liquor, and its being illegal ,confuses our youth ! However I dont believe filling up prisons with drug offenders ,does anything except waste resources and create more crime .Its time we came into the 21st century, and got real about the failures of the drug war !!

[morningglory]

84. Legalize

Right away the people with a real problem would overdose or get treatment. It would be all good. I think people should be able to grow pot in their yards and sit on the porch and stay stoned. Still keep severe penalties for committing a crime while high, such as the penalties for driving drunk, and vehicular homicide while drunk.

[Skip Intro]

107. Yes, coke should be legal - its my body, not the DEA's.

The most the government should do is educate fully on the issue. Using this drug, imho, is senseless, so I don't. But who the hell am I to tell you not to?

[Nikia]

111. Some further things I thought about

If cocaine was legalized, would there be any company that would really be willing to sell it? Think of the law suits when inexperienced first time users overdose. What regulations would there be? There are generally regulations in order to make a product safe and standard. Another issue is that cocaine is usually cut with something. Experienced users might overdose if they are used to buying relatively diluted product.

[JackDragna]

113. It's time to decriminalize all drugs.

The only thing drug prohibition has brought us are hundreds of Al Capones worldwide. They make huge profits off the insatiable need of Americans to dull their senses because of the emptiness of their lives or their need for forbidden pleasures. Drugs like cocaine are already readily available: making them legal isn't going to change a thing. The surest way to reduce the pernicious effects drugs have on society is to take the money made from dealing them away from organized crime and to make them such an ingrained part of society that they lose their exotic lustre to our youth.