A Born Again Ex- Friend sent me a Gloating Email...

[greblc]

with a Blue County -Red County Nation wide break down of the vote.
He Wrote:
"Well I guess by this map of the county election breakdown across the country,we can see that the large majority of this country loves the strong moral back bone we are know for, not the world of relativism that the rest of the wants us to fall into. We have all heard the saying " Misery love company" there is truly a reason everyone else in the world strives to come to America, it's just simply the most awesome country to be able to call home. We are not perfect,but we are free, this is what gives us such huge hearts why we as individuals give more than any other countries combined. FREEDOM does come with great cost, so be sure to share with you family, friends and all you come across, to thank those who are sacrificing their lives at this very moment for you and them. We do need to be sure to pray, pray hard for our men and woman in the military, thank any you meet, show them the LOVE and COMPASSION they deserve. I planned a little note to go with this I guess it got away from me.

Take care and God bless you all,"

This is verbatim.

I've fired back 3 replies "to all" 16 recipients of this well written heart warming
God Bless it Patriotic Email. I intend to send many more after they all reply back. I don't think the lot of them take much time to read (or write well). I pointed out that the geographic area that supported Bush was large but he won by the narrowest percentage since 1916. Those are big words and he may not understand. Does anyone have a Pie Chart with the National Vote % I can send him and the 16?

He and I were Best friends in High school and we both enlisted in the Marine Corps. We are both Very Patriotic and Value Military Service. Anything I can forward to him to illustrate how Bush is failing our Military would be appreciated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. any halliburton story

but truth be told yuo may want to cut your ties

As painful as this is, you cannot argue with Fundies, they are faith bsed not fact based

That said, the coutnry is overall purple, not blue or red, but yui can do some glating of your own

THe red staes are the same ones taht went to war in 1860, and they are at it again, maybe he is proud they want to arrest progress AGAIN... assuming yuo want to go that way

[greblc]

17. I have cut ties but...

I now have 16 people from his adress book to forward information to. I don't plan to win any arguments with fundies. I only hope to plant a seed of doubt.
I've never been able to explain anything to a fundie. If you leave a trail of bread crumbs to the facts there is a hope they may question themselves.

Repuplicans Voted for Kerry. Not because we told them too.

[shuffnew]

42. Letter to Bush/Rove & Some Bread Crumbs For You.

I received an email with a "Letter to President Bush" that I have beefed up somewhat (written in jest, but quite true actually). The examples in the letter are to show how ridiculous it is to change the US Constitution to implement all the extreme religious right's wishes. Perhaps send your friend a rewrite of your own with links and suggestions to take a "Separation of Church & State Quiz" appended at the bottom of whatever type letter you send them.

Good luck with your effort. Hope you gather enough crumbs to help, but don't bank on it. If extreme right "born again", many are blinded beyond reproach.

There are plenty of links on this DU message boards (home page) to point to the "Election" Fraud and the two empires of the religious extreme right who own the two electronic voting systems that have no oversight committee at all!

***** draft letter you could rewrite to your liking ********
A LETTER TO PRESIDENT BUSH (COPY "BROTHER ROVE")

Dear President Bush (copy to: "Brother" Rove),

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law and to try to justify your efforts to irradicate the US Constitution to appease your campaign donors (who wish to replace or add constitutional amendments to be precisely stated with your God's Law definitions). I have learned a great deal from you and understand that you wish to remove the church's and state's responsibility on defining marriage and place a mandated definition into our US Constitutition because our churches and states and judges are not godly enough to continue to exercise that task without you inserting your interpretation of God's Law into our US Constitution and make it a mandate for all Americans.

Will you be printing new National Bibles based upon a new US Constitution or must that cost be undertaken by those in the churches and states? Will you be providing free training or mandate our public schools systems to become non-secular government entities to teach us your version of God's Law?

As you said (for instance) "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman" and when anyone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, your God's Law is not debatable because Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination?...
End of debate, right?

In abortions, is the mother not a human worthy of living in the eyes of your God's Law? Does your God's Law love gays? Does your God's Law only love the white supremist or all? Does your God's Law love persons of all religious faiths or one? Please be more precise on who we should love based upon your God's Law and just who is to be considered worthy of living? I thought we were supposed to love "all", but you have me greatly confused. Does your version of "God's Law" support pre-emptive wars (war as last resort has no meaning?) resulting in thousands of military and innocent civilian deaths?

Your recent actions have confused me in dealing with other daily matters that are not yet clarified currently in our US Constitution either. I need some advice from you to better understand how your book of God's Law directs me to deal with the following and when are
these clarities going to be mandated to us by you replacing sections of our US Constitution with your God's Law -- remove additional church and state and city officials laws and replace with your flock's God's Law in our US Constitution?

I have many questions for you, but include only the below examples.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you please clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus. 21 : 7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? (I'm pretty sure she's a virgin-more valuable?).

3. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev. 1 : 9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

4. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? How can I help you in this situation?

5. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10 , it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. Should I agree? Can you settle this? Aren't there 'degrees' of abomination?

6. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

7. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27 . How should they die?

8. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

9. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really
necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16 . Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help and probably have all these answers already while working with the experts who define God's Law for you while filling your campaign pockets simultaneously. What a great job you and your Brother Rove did in conning these experts. I guess with all those donations and conned votes you, understandably, must at least offer them one dagger to be inserted into our US Constitution. Or maybe you best get to work on overturning Roe v Wade (after all, we've had it in place since 1973 and all it has done is provide freedom of choice, improved our family planning and education on alternatives to abortions, improved our education and advances in science & medical care, and given us the ability to track real abortion numbers which have declined since 1990 and are now below the 1973 levels, etc.)- of course, how silly of me, wouldn't we rather step back to the dark ages and start over?

You and Brother Jeb also did a fine job of promoting "Election Fraud". Have you thanked Diebold and all the professed Christians that helped you out again in 2004? Bet those are some folks your God's Law allows you to love?

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. It must be really great to be on such close terms with God and his son, ... even better than you and your own Dad, I suppose.

Mr. President, I thought I had a clear understanding of our US Constitution and the intent of our founders and a clear understanding of my church doctrines and Bible. But, you have confused me greatly because I simply do not see how God's Law could be allowed to interfere with your oath of office of President of The United States
to support and execute the US Constitution and related documents for "We, the People" (not for one right-wing group professing to be Christians) in a "secular" manner. Aren't we all "people"? What are your limits and plans in this second tenure as it relates to destroying our US Constitution and replacing it with your selectively defined God's Law?

Also, where are you planning to get more military to cleanse the
world without a "real draft"? Your "back door draft" military is being exhausted and overextended past legal limits:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/11/05/extended.enlistments/index.html
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20041107%2F0320964781.htm&sc=1110

We, the People, truly need to know these answers and feel you should have communicated your true plans in this arena before we went to the polls on November 2, 2004.

Mr. President, I anxiously await your response.

Regards, A True American

PS: Mr. President: I have included information below that should help you to understand your sworn oath of office duties to support ALL in the secular era-less manner that our US Constitution and founding documents set forth (there is no mention of your God's Law as an acceptable replacement).

(Mr. President, exercise from a Quiz I found on the internet)
(Letter Attachments)

What Do You Know About The Separation of State and Church?"

------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. Where in the U.S. Constitution does it say that the United States was founded as a Christian nation, based on the sovereign authority of God?
nowhere. Our nation was founded as a secular government, based on the authority of "We, the People," not a god, king, or dictator.


2. How many times does the word "God" appear in the U.S. Constitution?
Zero(0). The U.S. Constitution does not contain the word "God" in it at all.


3. Does the Declaration of Independence refer to Christianity or Jesus?
No. There is no mention of Jesus, Christ,
Christianity, religious persecution, or religious freedom in the
Declaration of Independence.


4. The US Constitution guarantees religious liberty for Christians, all religions, atheist, agnotics, or all of these?
all of the these. Religious liberty is meaningless unless we all have it. Freedom From Religion Foundation president Anne Gaylor says, "There can be no religious freedom without the freedom to dissent."


5. Where did the term "separation of church and state" originate? (France, Soveit Union, US, or Nazi Germany)?
United States of America.


6. What does the First Amendment say about religion?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting free exercise. The First Amendment begins with these words: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; . ." The two clauses are referred to, respectively, as the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause.


7. The phrase "wall of separation between church and state" originated with?
a letter written by President Thomas Jefferson. President Thomas Jefferson coined this phrase in a carefully crafted letter to the Danbury Baptists of Connecticut in 1802. It has since been widely picked up and invoked in major Supreme Court decisions. President Thomas Jefferson's letter (Re: http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html ) contains the phrase "wall of separation between church and state," which led to the short-hand for the "Establishment Clause" that we sue today: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1 : "Separation of church and state."


8. Which early colonies practiced freedom of religion?
Roger Williams' Providence settlement. Trick question! Roger Williams' Providence settlement founded in 1656 expressly guaranteed religious freedom. However, the Pilgrims originally were a tolerant people, when they founded Plymouth in 1620. By 1691, the Pilgrims had adopted the theocratic, intolerant Calvinism of the Puritans, who founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1628. The Puritans came to this land expressly to establish a bible commonwealth, and banished "heretics" and dissenters. In Virginia, heresy was a capital offense punishable by death by burning. Quakers were particularly persecuted. People who were not orthodox Christians were not legally protected, could be denied civil rights and jailed. The founders of the new nation of the United States of America, conversant with extreme religious intolerance and violence in the several colonies, were determined to put an end to it. That is why they established state/church separation.

9. The Puritans escaped religious persecution and,
in their own colony, allowed religious freedom for everyone, all Christians, or Puritans only?
Puritans only. Puritans Congregational Calvinists) only were allowed. Even practicing Puritans were held to strict litmus tests. (The Puritans loved religious freedom so much that they kept it all to themselves.)

10. Where does the phrase ". . . the government of
the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; . . ." appear?
U.S. treaty signed by President Adams. In 1797 the United States entered into a treaty with Tripoli, in which it was declared: "As the government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no
character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquillity of Musselmen . . . it is declared . . . that no pretext arising from
religious opinion shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony
existing between the two countries." This treaty was written under
Washington's presidency, and it was ratified by Congress under John
Adams, signed by Adams.


11. By an Act of Congress, U.S. currency has carried the motto "In God We Trust" since when?
1957. In 1955, Congress passed a law requiring that "In God We Trust" appear on all U.S. coins and currency. The first paper currency with the motto appeared in 1957. This was right after the McCarthy era, during the early Cold War, when no congressperson would dare be seen voting against "God." "In God We
Trust" did appear occasionally on a few coins, starting with a 2-cent
piece in the 1860s, in an attempt (it is surmised) to put "God" on the
side of the north during the Civil War. In 1956, an Act of Congress
adopted "In God We Trust" as a national motto. The original motto,
"E Pluribus Unum" ("out of many, one,") celebrating plurality,
still appears on the Presidential Seal and on some paper currency.


12. The Pledge of Allegiance, first published in 1892, has included the words "under God" since when?
1954. As with "In God We Trust,""under God" is also a Johnny-come-lately. It was inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance during the McCarthy era. The original pledge was first published on September 8, 1892 in the magazine "Youth's Companion" with no reference to a deity.


13. Who made the following statement?
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because
such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . We need believing people."
Adolf Hitler. April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933.

a Roman Catholic family. A Roman Catholic family objected to the exclusive use of the Protestant King James Version of the bible. The court barred all bible reading from Wisconsin public schools. <[i>State ex rel. Weiss vs. District Board,
76 Wisc. 177 (1890)]. Catholicism was a small minority in 19th-century
America. It is usually minority groups who need the protection of the http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/bill_of_rights.html
Bill of Rights.


15. The U.S. Supreme Court outlawed student-initiated prayers at high-school football games in 2000. Who were the plaintiffs in that lawsuit?
Roman Catholic and Mormon families. The Texas lawsuit was taken by a Catholic family and a Mormon family who had children who were being harassed by the born-again majority in the
public schools.


16. According to the "Lemon test," in order to be constitutional, a law or public act must have a secular purpose, have a primary effect that neither advances nor inhibits religion, not result in excessive governmental entanglement with religion, or all 3?
all 3 are correct. The 3-pronged Lemon test: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=403&invol=602
Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602 (1971),(which dealt with public aid to private schools) has almost consistently been utilized by the Supreme Court since the early 1970s. ALL THREE prongs of the test must be satisfied.


17. All American Presidents have been practicing Christians (True or False?)
False. John Adams, John Q. Adams, Millard Fillmore and William H. Taft were Unitarians*. Jefferson was a Deist/Freethinker. Harrison, Johnson, Grant and Hayes were not members
of a church. Lincoln was a Deist. Etc. (*Although some Unitarians
of that time considered themselves "Christians," they rejected the
Trinity and other doctrines that most Christians today consider
essential.)


18. The U.S. Constitution says there shall be no religious test for public office. True or False?
True. Article VI: . . . but no religious
Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public
Trust under the United States."


19. John Adams declared Christmas to be a national holiday. True or False?

False. Christmas was outlawed in some colonies. Alabama was the first state to make it a holiday in 1836; By 1890, all other states had done likewise. http://www.holidayorigins.com/html/christmas.html
Re: Holiday Origins Website (Christmas & Other Religious & Miscellaneous Holiday History)


20. A president, being sworn in, is required to place a hand on the Holy Bible and say "so help me, God." True or False?
he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--'I do solemnly swear
(or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of
the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve,
protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.' " Constitution, Article II, Section 1] This is the only oath given in the Constitution, and it is entirely secular.

21. Since the First Amendment deals with
"Congress," states are free to advance religion if they wish.
True or False?
False. http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html
The 14th Amendment makes the entire Bill of Rights applicable to the states: http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/bill_of_rights.html
The first Supreme Court case to declare a state's religious practices illegal under the 14th Amendment was the McCollum case (1948) which removed religious instruction from the public schools. Re: Supreme Court case: "Illinois ex rel. McCollum v. Board of Ed. of School Dist. No. 71, Champaign Cty., 333 U.S. 203 (1948)"

Links to Historical Documents

U.S. National Archives & Records Administration

The Declaration of Independence:
http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/declaration.html

The Constitution of the United States:
http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/constitution.html

The Bill of Rights:
http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/bill_of_rights.html

Constitutional Amendments 11-27:
http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html

About the US Supreme Court:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/about.html

Where to Obtain US Supreme Court Opinions:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/obtainopinions.pdf

The Avalon Project at Yale University School of Law:
The Federalist Papers
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed.htm

[Sparkle]

2. You should attach the purple map that's been floating around

on DU. It doesn't show as much red as the right wingers like to gloat about.

[aquart]

3. Send him to the anysoldier website.

http://www.anysoldier.us/index.cfm

Tell him to put his money where his mouth is and feed our troops.

[greblc]

6. Thanks I will.

[girl gone mad]

19. also, operation truth.

www.optruth.org

[greblc]

30. I have sent him this link.

I'll send it again.

[Hobarticus]

4. Ask your born-again friedn when he ships out for Iraq!

Obviously anyone so enthusiastic about the war has signed up, and surely God will see him home in one piece! Surely Jesus would protect his children in this righteous war, so that they can be brave with their own lives and limbs and spare someone else fromthehorrors of war who may not be protected by God's grace!

Onward Christian soldierrrrs....

BTW, this tends to shut people up in a hurry when you ask them when they're signing up.

[greblc]

11. We both did our time...

but I'll encourage him to Re enlist in the Reserves.

[Hobarticus]

13. You've got to be kidding!

Even after serving, he's free-and-easy with the troops' blood?

Did he learn anything while he was in?

Sheesh.

BTW, thanks for serving. Seriously.

[greblc]

29. Your ,Welcome

[grasswire]

5. send him this link

It will blow his mind.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Emejn/election/

Here's what the red state blue state map looks like when adjusted for population (from the site linked above)

[Hobarticus]

14. Think I'm gonna barf....

[girl gone mad]

21. I think someone beat you to it.

:evilgrin:

[Hobarticus]

23. Never drink Blue Maui with a spaghetti dinner, girl gone mad...

This is what you get, and it ain't pretty.

[K8-EEE]

7. You Might Want To Ask Him

...and all his list to send a phone card to the troops recovering in Walter Reed since the government is not picking up the tab for this and a lot of them can't even call home.

Then ask them to call their representatives and demand that the wounded troops get what the need when the get home. If freedome comes with cost then pay it -- instead of concentrating on protecting tax breaks for millionaires.

Flag waving is easy but supporting the military does not mean supporting the Bush administration using them and then throwing them away when they come home wounded.

The address for Walter Reed is posted in a current thread on the "Activism" section here -- or I can find it for you if you want.

I would kind of like to organize a DU phone card drive. They can't bet too many of these and they are a really cheap gift that would mean the world to a newly returned soldier who doesn't have the means to call home. A bunch of us sending a $5 card would really help -- we can write "from democraticunderground.com" on them too!

[greblc]

20. I'll look but post if you can find it.

[K8-EEE]

38. Sure Here Ya Go

Mine got there with the first address I was given, but the more complete address is in post #5 on this thread, with building # and all that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106x12563

[crispini]

8. Ask him if he thinks

that cows, salamanders, and cacti deserve votes? Most of that red spaces is simply... EMPTY space. heh.

[madmax]

10. In 2000 I argued with posters at WP Forum

Trees and rocks don't vote!

[donheld]

46. Are you sure?

how else could bushie win :evilgrin:

[madmax]

9. Another link for you to send your friend

Defending America
Hack's Weekly Column
11-08-2004
Nailing the Guilty
- By David H. Hackworth, DefenseWatch Senior Military Columnist
Now that the election’s over, President Bush needs to deep-six his candidate hat and get serious as commander-in-chief. His first priority should be to hold accountable those defense and intelligence chiefs and their high-level underlings responsible for the many grievous, even criminal, mistakes that have occurred in Iraq on their watch. Without a constructive critique of what’s gone down in that beleaguered country – a no-holds-barred appraisal that actually changes America’s ill-conceived counterinsurgency direction – we'll be stuck in a protracted struggle that will only get uglier as the terrible weeks, months and years bleed by.
http://www.hackworth.com/

[Indiana_Dem]

12. This looks like a better map.

I'm trying this gain--at least the links:

Electoral maps got you seeing red? Here are a few alternative visions of the American electoral cartography - some statistical, some satirical, some historical, and some purple.


+ Red vs. blue? Na, we're all purple! (except Utah, Wyoming, and Idaho)


+ Red and blue states according to population - not landmass


+ Slave states and the 2004 election


+ Baja Canada and the United State of Texas

on edit: Well, this didn't work either.
But it's on www.sojo.net somewhere. I got it in an email from them but I can't find the correct links.

[azstefano]

15. A map proportional to population

Found on this link:

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writing/2004/11/the_us_electora.html

There your friends can see the 50/50 split red vs blue.

stefano

[immoderate]

16. Here are some good election maps

They show the "purple." And one shows where the people are. So happens where the people are, it's more blue.

Matter of fact this is it:

It's a night time satellite photo.

http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/

--IMM

[geomon666]

18. Here's my response to the slime.

First of all, the men and women overseas are not fighting for our freedom. The battle for liberty in this country was fought over 200 years ago. They are fighting and dying for a lie, a lie that you support. A lie that the rest of the world rejects.

Second, I have never heard of prayer saving a single person. Bush has personally approved the deaths of over a 100 people and I'm sure most of them were praying as they were being strapped into the chair. They still died so instead of prayer why don't you get off of your high moral horse and do something for the troops you support so much. Send them the supplies that our government won't give them like bullets! and body armor! I mean they're going to need all the protection they can get so they can fulfill Bush's orders to slaughter as many brown people as possible.

And while on the subject of morality and brown people, tell me please, how moral is it to support the slaughter of over 100,000 people? Whether Iraqi or Afghani they are still human, just like you and me. They did nothing to us but yet you want them dead and our sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, to kill them. Why? What does it gain for you? We all know Bush and his friends will benefit greatly but what do you get out of it? The right to discriminate gay people? Which is worse Oh Moral One? Banning gays from marrying and being happy or killing thousands for money? Where does your morality lie?

[greblc]

24. Yes he's a hypocrite. The fundies just don't get it.

They will never listen to us. We have to leave them Bread Crumbs of truth to follow and digest . Then hopefully they will arrive at their own conclusion that we are making grave mistakes

By the way. I have dirt on him, he'll never run for office.

[FizzFuzz]

31. I just might print this out and give it to the twinkly happy fundies

at work. I could puke, and every time I see a good one like this, I want to print it and silently hand it to them when they get all happy and praise the lord-ly around me.

Ughh. The ignorance and and and.....ugghhhh I just cant stand it. It leaves me totally gaping and speechless. Thats why I want to print up responses like this.

[Dixon Cox]

41. I Agree with the Pic!

More War in '04!!!
Vote Bush!

[Straight Shooter]

22. "men and woman in the military"?

Looks like this guy needs some community college, bush-style.

Lip-service evangelical, multiple-choice Christian.

[greblc]

26. well, we only need to pray for one of them.

I just want to tell him he's F'n nuts after reading his emails.

[Straight Shooter]

37. Well ...

if your friend is fucking nuts, he needs God to forgive him for his weird habit, eh?

[idiosyncratic]

25. Also send them the maps from this link

Pascals Diary




It shows the individual states divided red and blue by red and blue voters.

The U.S. ain't so red then.


P.S. Boy are these people "sore winners." Wonder how they are going to act once the election fraud is exposed?

[Sparkle]

27. Hey, I like that one too. I was trying to configure that one

but when they came out with the purple map, that pointed out what I was trying to do. Thanks.

[greblc]

28. Nice. I sent this one.

[cushla_machree]

32. some websites

Bush’s War Against the Military

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/1401/

Iraq on the record:

http://democrats.reform.house.gov/IraqOnTheRecord/

Adventure capitalism:

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/adventure_capitalism.php


I also like Naomi Kleins articles on war profiteeromg.

I have other links somewhere on how bush has slashed veterans benefits and active duty pay.

[judaspriestess]

33. what a sick twisted message!

I'm telling you alot of these same evangelical born again weirdos are the same ones who molest kids, cheat on their spouses, cheat on taxes, etc, etc, etc.
I'm sorry you have lost a friend.

[greblc]

34. Me too. There is some irony that I lost him to his JESUS.

The way he talks I think I pray to a different God.

[Maraya1969]

35. Remind him that Jesus would never condone a war

especially against an unarmed country. Tell him that George Bush is pro-war, pro death penalty and so cannot be pro-life, (he is pro-birth). Remind him that 100,00 Iraqi civilians are DEAD including 40,00- CHILDREN and over 1,000 US soldiers are DEAD because our moral president wanted to go to war with a country that never attacked us and harbored no terrorists. Remind him we are in more danger since the attack on Iraq. What was once a small number of terrorists in now numbering in the thousands.

If his idea of "morals" is stopping people who love each other from getting married and only supporting pro-birth then he doesn't have many morals after all. (learning the "framing" thing from the thread about Nightline.

And remind him that Bush supports the Conservative "elite" not the average American, (learned that one too from the thread on Nightline)

[DianeG5385]

36. Speaking of gloating, My dad (Boca Raton Fla)

called my sis yesterday and said, I'm calling to gloat, "Our Man won the White House" (He's a devout Catholic conservative as is 80% of my family with the exception of my sis and I and our mom). She knew he would be calling me tonight as we are planning a trip to visit them and we were having a family birthday party. She said to him, "I can take it but don't you dare do that to Diane!!! I have always had a "fun" interplay with my dad that he greatly enjoys where we joust and argue politics which are not in agreement. I know he loves the discussion and it keeps this 83 year old sharp and young along with the fact that he is into everything and travels everywhere! I enjoy it too! May I say, I love my dad, he is a truly amazingly good and loving person!
However, this year, I think my sister did my dad a big favor. When I talked to my dad tonight, NOT A WORD of POLITICS!! Which by the way is our way of jibing at each other. I didn't know this until after the call but I do appreciate my dad's sensitivity. I would have listened to his gloating had he done it and not responded. That would have been worse for my dad than if I had lost it!! I tried so hard to make him see my point of view and let me tell you he had serious doubts about Bush, but he still voted for him!!! Many many people who voted for Bush are good good people, I just don't understand why they support this guy who is set upon destroying the safety net my dad and millions of others rely on and they still vote for the guy!!! Better we keep politics off the table for 4 years!

[Susang]

39. Here's a link to help you out

Though you might have to do a little simplifying so they get the concept. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/

[itsrainingkarma]

40. understand this

Generally fundies are people on a lower intellectual platform. Harken back to the puritan days and tell them Bush is a witch and they should tie a rock to him and if he floats then he's a witch and if he sinks then he's in heaven. NOW THAT'S FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN VALUES. Then again Bush survived war, economic meltdown, vast incompetence, and moral failing and still seemed to float to victory. I think the evidence speaks for itself, aye.

Edit... look at me i've posted 6 messages on this board and i've already picked up the jargon... fundies... remind me not to call them fundies on the campaign trail... "superstitious individuals"

[cap]

43. have him go visit the very people in nyc etc

who are most likely to become victims of the next attack on America. Ask why they are not completely on board with this foolishness. Ask your friend why he didn't think it was important to listen to the victims of 9-11.

[LynnTheDem]

44. Pie chart for you

http://www.pandagon.net/mtarchives/003883.html

[mr blur]

45. Well, as old George W. Said,

There's such a thing as too much freedom. When did "freedom" become exclusively an American thing? Is nobody else free? I may not go to church but I'm free to live in a country where no-one is threatening to put my gay friends in jail. Or getting biology teachers at my kids' school to ignore Darwin and teach them the Christian creation myth as if it was FACT.

[donheld]

47. Did you ask him what it is republican's actually won?

Sure maybe now he doesn't have to allow a man to marry another man. He doesn't have to worry about the president getting a blow job in the oval office, but

Did he get better health care?
Did he get a more secure job?
Did he get better taxes?
Did he or his kids really get better education?
Did he get more safety for him and his family?
Did he get honesty in government?
Did he get more out of the Bill of Rights?
etc

The freepers may have won the election, but what did they really win a better country? Yea right.

[Sugarbleus]

48. "but we are free"....*ahem*, we are free to be poor...

this is what gives us such huge hearts why we as individuals give more than any other countries combined. Okay then...send this link to your friend. And they say WE don't get it.. bullpucky!

http://www.kwru.org

Kensington Welfare Rights Union and Poor People's Economic Human Rights Campaign... Check these out, Mr. we are compassionate and generous...