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Gothic Sponge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:17 AM
Original message
The parallels between 1930s Germany and the USA are scary.
If/when our economy is gone, who will Bush blame?

:scared:
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RawMaterials Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. get ready for hyper-inflation
hopefully I will be in canada before it happens.
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Lone Pawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Don't think that'll happen
There's no massive debt being militarily enforced. Inflation, yes. Hyperinflation, no. Not unless there were somehow nuclear attacks on all major cities, destroying our economic infrastructure.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. Except for the parallel that the German economy got better
with war, just like ours does.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Dutch
it's all those dikes!
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. He can't blame Clinton now
The 59 million that reportedly voted for him will deny they ever did.
In fact they will be responsible because they ratified his agenda.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. the einviger jews (and gays) of course.
actually, tired of not finding terrorists abroad? They're going to start re-categorizing unpaid parking tickets as terrorist activity and start seizing bank accounts and holding public auto da fe's for unrepentant liberals.

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Hey Zeus Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. please provide the parallels. (nt)
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Here are just a few DU links to keep you occupied for a while
And not NEARLY all-inclusive, either. Lotsa links in most of these threads...educate yourself.

George W Bush is a NAZI Stooge
(thread includes a number of good links and related discussions)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2418676#2418764

What is the difference??? bush-Iraq; Hitler-Poland.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2406622&mesg_id=2406622&page=

Wanna know where today's Fascism came from? Look here 8/29/04
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2282969#2283235

Bush,Machiavelli,StraussIF NO EXTERNAL THREAT EXISTS ONE MUST BE INVENTED
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2255230

Fascism, Nazism, & Eugenics supported by Oil Barons of America &
esp. the Rockefeller Foundation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2248507

I'm scared - I've got a mail, sounds real!!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1822699#1822720

It's Time for Another Bush/Nazi Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853#199887
(most links already harvested)

1944: American fascism (re 1944 article)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=212387

Enough with the "_______ is worse than/ as bad as Hitler"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1730317

How Reagan Got Elected in the first place -- My little tribute
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1773894#1776990 (See Octafish post #33 for links to some books on Amazon)


Is U.S. REALLY like Germany in the 30's? (elementaryPenguin)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1772363#1772645
See also: Is US like Germany of the '30s? (Kayell)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1777406#1780958

Are we on the road to becoming Nazi's?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1784358#

Second Circuit Judge Tells It Like It Is: Bush Is Illegitimate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1833026
re this news story: http://daily.nysun.com/Repository/getmailfiles.asp?Style=OliveXLib:ArticleToMail&Type=text/html&Path=NYS/2004/06/21&ID=Ar00101

Comparing Bush to Hitler hurts our credibility
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1873137#1873330

The Fascism is getting harder to hide. And harder to fight.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=750446

"American fascists" among us
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2026031

Joe Stanton: "Bush's Operation Clean Sweep: World War IV in 2004?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=808293

Fascism?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1948137

Way, Way Past Time To Label BushCo As Nazis
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1966911#1967150

I'm crying (Elf sees the warning signs)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1791526#1791609

Is America Becoming Fascist?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2159330

What Would Machiavelli Do? The Big Lie Lives On ...Thom Hartmann
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2276024

Do you understand that a Kerry win is only the beginning of the fight?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2370107#2370221

When Fascism Comes to America
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x74736

Fascism Rant
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2516368#2517430

Bush is *not* Hitler!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1868574
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Here's a nice read, from VP Henry Wallace, 1944.
The Danger of American Fascism
By Henry A. Wallace
The New York Times
From Henry A. Wallace, Democracy Reborn (New York, 1944), edited by Russell Lord, p. 259.

Sunday 09 April 1944

On returning from my trip to the West in February, I received a request from The New York Times to write a piece answering the following questions:

What is a fascist?
How many fascists have we?
How dangerous are they?

A fascist is one whose lust for money or power is combined with such an intensity of intolerance toward those of other races, parties, classes, religions, cultures, regions or nations as to make him ruthless in his use of deceit or violence to attain his ends. The supreme god of a fascist, to which his ends are directed, may be money or power; may be a race or a class; may be a military, clique or an economic group; or may be a culture, religion, or a political party.

The perfect type of fascist throughout recent centuries has been the Prussian Junker, who developed such hatred for other races and such allegiance to a military clique as to make him willing at all times to engage in any degree of deceit and violence necessary to place his culture and race astride the world. In every big nation of the world are at least a few people who have the fascist temperament. Every Jew-baiter, every Catholic hater, is a fascist at heart. The hoodlums who have been desecrating churches, cathedrals and synagogues in some of our larger cities are ripe material for fascist leadership.

The obvious types of American fascists are dealt with on the air and in the press. These demagogues and stooges are fronts for others. Dangerous as these people may be, they are not so significant as thousands of other people who have never been mentioned. The really dangerous American fascists are not those who are hooked up directly or indirectly with the Axis. The FBI has its finger on those. The dangerous American fascist is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power.

If we define an American fascist as one who in case of conflict puts money and power ahead of human beings, then there are undoubtedly several million fascists in the United States. There are probably several hundred thousand if we narrow the definition to include only those who in their search for money and power are ruthless and deceitful. Most American fascists are enthusiastically supporting the war effort. They are doing this even in those cases where they hope to have profitable connections with German chemical firms after the war ends. They are patriotic in time of war because it is to their interest to be so, but in time of peace they follow power and the dollar wherever they may lead.

American fascism will not be really dangerous until there is a purposeful coalition among the cartelists, the deliberate poisoners of public information, and those who stand for the K.K.K. type of demagoguery.

The European brand of fascism will probably present its most serious postwar threat to us via Latin America. The effect of the war has been to raise the cost of living in most Latin American countries much faster than the wages of labor. The fascists in most Latin American countries tell the people that the reason their wages will not buy as much in the way of goods is because of Yankee imperialism. The fascists in Latin America learn to speak and act like natives. Our chemical and other manufacturing concerns are all too often ready to let the Germans have Latin American markets, provided the American companies can work out an arrangement which will enable them to charge high prices to the consumer inside the United States. Following this war, technology will have reached such a point that it will be possible for Germans, using South America as a base, to cause us much more difficulty in World War III than they did in World War II. The military and landowning cliques in many South American countries will find it attractive financially to work with German fascist concerns as well as expedient from the standpoint of temporary power politics.

Fascism is a worldwide disease. Its greatest threat to the United States will come after the war, either via Latin America or within the United States itself.

Still another danger is represented by those who, paying lip service to democracy and the common welfare, in their insatiable greed for money and the power which money gives, do not hesitate surreptitiously to evade the laws designed to safeguard the public from monopolistic extortion. American fascists of this stamp were clandestinely aligned with their German counterparts before the war, and are even now preparing to resume where they left off, after "the present unpleasantness" ceases:

The symptoms of fascist thinking are colored by environment and adapted to immediate circumstances. But always and everywhere they can be identified by their appeal to prejudice and by the desire to play upon the fears and vanities of different groups in order to gain power. It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice. It may be shocking to some people in this country to realize that, without meaning to do so, they hold views in common with Hitler when they preach discrimination against other religious, racial or economic groups. Likewise, many people whose patriotism is their proudest boast play Hitler's game by retailing distrust of our Allies and by giving currency to snide suspicions without foundation in fact.

The American fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact. Their newspapers and propaganda carefully cultivate every fissure of disunity, every crack in the common front against fascism. They use every opportunity to impugn democracy. They use isolationism as a slogan to conceal their own selfish imperialism. They cultivate hate and distrust of both Britain and Russia. They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection.

Several leaders of industry in this country who have gained a new vision of the meaning of opportunity through co-operation with government have warned the public openly that there are some selfish groups in industry who are willing to jeopardize the structure of American liberty to gain some temporary advantage. We all know the part that the cartels played in bringing Hitler to power, and the rule the giant German trusts have played in Nazi conquests. Monopolists who fear competition and who distrust democracy because it stands for equal opportunity would like to secure their position against small and energetic enterprise. In an effort to eliminate the possibility of any rival growing up, some monopolists would sacrifice democracy itself.

It has been claimed at times that our modern age of technology facilitates dictatorship. What we must understand is that the industries, processes, and inventions created by modern science can be used either to subjugate or liberate. The choice is up to us. The myth of fascist efficiency has deluded many people. It was Mussolini's vaunted claim that he "made the trains run on time." In the end, however, he brought to the Italian people impoverishment and defeat. It was Hitler's claim that he eliminated all unemployment in Germany. Neither is there unemployment in a prison camp.

Democracy to crush fascism internally must demonstrate its capacity to "make the trains run on time." It must develop the ability to keep people fully employed and at the same time balance the budget. It must put human beings first and dollars second. It must appeal to reason and decency and not to violence and deceit. We must not tolerate oppressive government or industrial oligarchy in the form of monopolies and cartels. As long as scientific research and inventive ingenuity outran our ability to devise social mechanisms to raise the living standards of the people, we may expect the liberal potential of the United States to increase. If this liberal potential is properly channeled, we may expect the area of freedom of the United States to increase. The problem is to spend up our rate of social invention in the service of the welfare of all the people.

The worldwide, agelong struggle between fascism and democracy will not stop when the fighting ends in Germany and Japan. Democracy can win the peace only if it does two things:

Speeds up the rate of political and economic inventions so that both production and, especially, distribution can match in their power and practical effect on the daily life of the common man the immense and growing volume of scientific research, mechanical invention and management technique. Vivifies with the greatest intensity the spiritual processes which are both the foundation and the very essence of democracy.

The moral and spiritual aspects of both personal and international relationships have a practical bearing which so-called practical men deny. This dullness of vision regarding the importance of the general welfare to the individual is the measure of the failure of our schools and churches to teach the spiritual significance of genuine democracy. Until democracy in effective enthusiastic action fills the vacuum created by the power of modern inventions, we may expect the fascists to increase in power after the war both in the United States and in the world.

Fascism in the postwar inevitably will push steadily for Anglo-Saxon imperialism and eventually for war with Russia. Already American fascists are talking and writing about this conflict and using it as an excuse for their internal hatreds and intolerances toward certain races, creeds and classes.

It should also be evident that exhibitions of the native brand of fascism are not confined to any single section, class or religion. Happily, it can be said that as yet fascism has not captured a predominant place in the outlook of any American section, class or religion. It may be encountered in Wall Street, Main Street or Tobacco Road. Some even suspect that they can detect incipient traces of it along the Potomac. It is an infectious disease, and we must all be on our guard against intolerance, bigotry and the pretension of invidious distinction. But if we put our trust in the common sense of common men and "with malice toward none and charity for all" go forward on the great adventure of making political, economic and social democracy a practical reality, we shall not fail.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/082103F.shtml
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Try reading "I Will Bear Witness" by Victor Klemperer.
He was a German Jew. World War I veteran, married to an "Aryan". Thus, he was spared a trip to the gas chambers. He kept a diary all his life.

The years after Hitler assumed power are chilling and all too similar to what we see here today. Contrary to common belief, Hitler didn't start killing the Jews until late in his reign - at least not on a massive scale. His first persecutions were against his political enemies the Communists and Socialists.

For most Germans and Jews, the persecution was one of slowly boiling the frog. A little here (more taxes for Jews), a little there (Jews are restricted from certain areas), a little more (Jews lose their jobs), then more and more (house searches, beatings, the star), until it reaches it's peak with the "evacuations" to the death camps.

All of this done under the veil of "patriotism", "love of country", "defending ourselves", "supporting our troops", and the same hollow sloganeering that we hear all to much here.

It's a bit of a stretch to look for equivalence to the 3rd Reich of 1942, but not far from what it was in 1935 or 1936.


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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. China ... and as a consequence, Clinton.
While visiting Texas, one winger told me that Clinton had "sold" Antarctica to China. Why on earth would they want Antarctica? I asked. "For its water!" When I pointed out that Antarctica was pretty distant for China to exploit, I was told that my Clinton loyalty blinded me to the truth, that Clinton handed over America's security to China.

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fugue Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
8. This is how I've been feeling ever since 9/11
It's Bush that scares me.

Hell, I'm willing to volunteer to be terrorist fodder if and only if BushCo will stop their Nazi-like rampage through the country's civil rights!

I'm now officially terrified, folks. Where do I go? I expect an Anschluss with Canada within the next four years. Do you think New Zealand is far enough away? Are they dog friendly? Will they take a forty-year-old with a disability but with a job, too?

Damn, I wish I hadn't gotten my degree in European history. . . .
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
11. Disagree. This country is evenly divided
not so of Nazi Germany once Hitler had assembled his political coalition.
Also, we are generally in better shape economically- a long way to go to devestation of post WWI Germany.

We are a lot more like the declining Roman Empire.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. On the Economy
all it would take is the world calling in it markers for the debt the country as amassed and our economy would cease to exist.
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. Reichstag Fire = 9/11
The rest falls into place...
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. The "Long knives" are out TODAY
even as we type...
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. Yes - yes they are indeed.
But many choose to be blind and deaf.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. fun fascism test: the F Scale
Someone came up with this after WW II.

Take the test for your right wing friends, Rush Limbaugh, or Bush.

Better yet, send it to them.


http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. Liberals are the modern Jews
Liberals will be blamed for the failures of society.
Prepare to wear a Yellow L on your clothes and a number on your arm.
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