Ireland first in "best quality of life." U.S. 13th.

[Sputnik]

I have no intentions of leaving the U.S. now, but if I change my mind then Ireland doesn't sound too bad.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/11/18/survey/index.html

"Displayed on a notional scale of one to 10, rain-washed Ireland emerges with a gleaming top score of 8.33, well ahead of second-place Switzerland, which manages 8.07. The U.K. languishes in 29th place on 6.92, narrowly in front of South Korea (6.88). Zimbabwe, racked by political insecurity and hunger, is rated the gloomiest, picking up only 3.89 points."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. Oh, yeah? How many missles does it have? Or, murders? Or, prisons?

Or, lunatic asylums? Or, soldiers? Or, cops? Or, homeless?

I'm tellin' ya. Say it loud! Say it proud! "We're Number One!"

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. Heh!

USA! USA! USA!

[DenverDem]

3. I just returned from a week in Ireland and I heartily concur with this.

Ireland is a beautiful country, with very intelligent and engaging people, a wonderful city in Dublin, great food, a mild climate, awesome golf courses (my business and my passion) and a booming economy. We were planning on opening a EU office for our company in 4 years, but are accelerating our plans toward Dublin, now.

BTW, they all hate busholini there, too. Even the rich, conservative businessmen that I played golf with at the K Club could not believe that he could steal a second term without revolution in the streets. Ireland is a lot more tuned into revolutionary thought, however, than the sheeple lemmings of amerikkka.

[joelogan]

4. my grandmother was born in Belfast, NI

If I request her birth certificate from the department in charge of those records, Ireland will make me a citizen for about $200.

I am thinking of moving there if I cannot find a way to obtain affordable health insurance here in America.

[murray hill farm]

6. would you have dual citizenship then?

Both in the USA and Ireland?

[obreaslan]

14. YEs, Ireland is one of the few countries ...

that doesn't require you to drop your US citizenship when you become an Irish citizen.

Talk about playing both sides. :)

[maveric]

18. Would you be an Irish citizen or a British subject? NI is Britain.

[joelogan]

25. I could be either or both

Ireland would accept me. They consider North Irelanders to be irish. The Brits consider them to be Brits.

Irish citizenship would be conferred immediately upon acceptance of the docs. UK citizenship would only be conferred after living there and being self supporting in the UK for 4 years.

BTW, Italy will also grant citizenship from the "granny rule"

[rinsd]

20. I'm not so sure about that...

My grandparents are also from Ireland and while my mother and her siblings can have dual citizenship(my uncle who was in business in England has it), I have to go through a different process.

Here's the info I found from the Irish Embassy.

http://www.irelandemb.org/fbr.html

[joelogan]

24. what about that document you cited contradicts what I said above?

I asked around, and read a lot of websites. You can get irish citizenship via the grandmother rule. You just have to get the docs and apply and pay a fee and wait.

[MsTryska]

5. How ironic would it be that the next Great Migration

would be back to ireland?



hmm...America? We tried it. Not so good.

[Sputnik]

7. Both sides of my family

came to the U.S. from Ireland. I think I could adjust to living there. It is very beautiful.

The Irish detest Bush and adore Clinton. Yes, I think I'd fit right in.

[MsTryska]

9. I'm from

India and even I want to move there now.

[firebee]

11. Ironically... They have a female President also..

Mary McAleese is her name I believe. Anyhow, if I do vacate the States of America, I'll probably be looking at Canada, Ireland or Jamaica... possibly Mexico since my friends have a lot of family down there.

I know Jamaica doesn't have the greatest living conditions, but I like the Rastafarian's old zionist faith. I guess you can say that I'm looking for a lovey dovey type of nation to move to if I'm gonna move. Personally, I think living in poverty around people who love and want peace is better than living in prosperity around people who hate, wage war and use Christ as a crutch for their moral ineptitude.

Anyways, I'm still here serving the true purpose of God, Allah, Jah or whatever you want to call it. I guess I have a hard time running away and remaining indifferent to the dark shift in the balance of power.

[MsTryska]

28. Despite the Rasta culture,

jamaica is a pretty violent country.

and altho the zionist faith is there, don't think a rasta won't shoot you dead or knife you if he/she felt you deserved it.

[obreaslan]

15. Our releatives that had to leave during the Famine...

would be so happy to see that their decendants we able to return to their homeland after all these years.

Think they'd let me have the old land back? ;)

[maveric]

19. Half of my lineage also left during the famine.

I've been thinking about repatriating if things get really bad.

[Bridget Burke]

22. Your ancestors probably didn't own the land.

The landlords found the Famine a great opportunity. Tenants who didn't die were turned out; sometimes they even got a ticket on a coffin ship to Boston.

Sheep are more profitable than people.

[ParanoidPat]

8. It's a cold wet rock in the middle of the North Atlantic that........

.......not even the Romans wanted but I'd be happy to make it my home if I could. I guess I was just born for the "pub culture". :beer: :toast::toast::toast:

[CBHagman]

10. That does it. Off I go.

I'll throw myself on my knees before immigration officials and brandish copies of my Irish great-great-grandfather's naturalization papers (dated 1877, I think) and beg them to accept me. Grovel, grovel, grovel.

[Cat Atomic]

12. Ireland really is nice. I went around some of the coast last year.

The little towns that dot the coast are the closest thing I've seen to a movie stereotype in my life.

I'm of Irish decent myself, but I live in Los Angeles. It was very strange to be in cities where everyone looked just like me. Fun. :D

[ObaMania]

13. I was suprised that Canada was 14th..

.. but that's only because it is very expensive I'm sure! :shrug:

[SemperEadem]

16. have they legalized divorce yet?

[Buck Rabbit]

17. So where does Ireland stand on Red State Values issues?

Pro-choice?, Gay rights?

How are minorities treated? Do they integrate religion in government? Is there religious freedom?

These are serious questions, not comments, as I don't know the answer to any of them. Is Ireland Reddish-Green or Bluish-Green?

[Bridget Burke]

21. Fuck "Red State Values" issues.....

Are you sure that all the folks in beautiful Eastern Oregon agree with you 100%?

Just off the top of my head: Abortion is still mostly illegal in the Republic of Ireland; the struggle is ongoing. Divorce & contraception were legalized--partly through the wishes of the people & partly to allay the fears of the Northerners who foresee a day when a Catholic majority might vote them out of the UK. Incidentally, abortion is hardly more legal in Northern Ireland; the powers of the RC Church & the more Orange types have united on this issue.

Don't' know about gay issues; check this out:
www.gaire.com/~gay_lesbian_and_bisexual_community_organisations.asp

Officially, the Republic of Ireland is a Roman Catholic country but the constitution absolutely guarantees religious freedom to all.

As far as minorities go, there has been some friction in the cities with descendants of other parts of the old Empire who moved to Ireland. The indigenous Travelers (formerly Tinkers) are also working for fuller equality.

Ireland isn't perfect, but people are working together. Many more resources are available for those who seek.

[joelogan]

26. Ireland is also economically liberal

healthcare is available to everyone there. Also any poor person can go on the dole there. It is not much, but it would keep you alive. here in the USA, unless you are a disabled person (and have gone through all the timeconsuming hoops to get disabilty payments) or are over 65 (soon to 70, if Howard Dean, George Bush, et al get their way), or are a single woman with young children, then you are screwed.

[Buck Rabbit]

29. Thanks for the info! I was curious, as to whether Ireland

would be a good sanctuary for immigration away from Red State domination as so many people at the top of the thread seemed to be implying.

The same article had South Korea and the UK listed about equal and unlike Ireland, I know a great deal about South Korea. As a destination for a liberal to expatriate themselves to, they are far from equal.

Alas, I am quite sure the folks in Eastern Oregon disagree with me on most everything. That's why we out breed them, so we can subjugate them at the ballot box.

[rinsd]

23. Some answers...

I believe that abortion is still illegal.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/nov/04110202.html

Here's some encouraging news on gay rights

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=174442

[Maeve]

27. "Best quality of life"--I could have told them THAT!

Seriously, it's a lovely little country, slower in pace still, with a certain something I can't define....a magic, if you will, that I hope never gets modernized out of existance.

[chieftain]

30. I've been to Ireland twice and it was wonderful . I

would give serious consideration to living there but for family ties here . My Great grandfather , Black Jack O'Neil , would marvel about how far his homeland has progressed and would be appalled that his chosen country had replaced England as the world's biggest seeker of empire .

[Chomp]

31. Hello from Ireland!!

Hahahahaha! I can't believe this study! I suppose grass is always greener and all that, but I tell you there are LOADS of terrible things about this country! Lots of good things too I suppose, but I promise you that daily life for many people is not some Disneyland-Oirish thing like The Quiet Man.

On paper, we've done very well over last few years - 20 years ago we had 18% unemployment, now it's low single digits. We had crippling national debts and could even have been considered a "Third World" country (hate that phrase, but that's what we were told in school in the 80s!).

The problem is that we still have 1/3 of the population living in poverty and many Irish people have not shared the benefits of the huge economic boom of recent years. Modest house prices in Dublin are routinely 8 and 9 times the average salary (c. $35,000 IIRC, and many people earn much less). And our state benefits (unemplyment benefit, free healthcare, state pension, disablity benefits etc.) lag behind many of our European neighbours' standards.

Oh, and we also have regular financial-political scandals (although no question of bent elections yet!).

To answer 2 queries from above:
1. Yes, divorce is now legal in Ireland. Was voted on in a referendum about 5 years ago and only passed by around 9,000 votes (it was a very, very bitter campaign, even in this day and age.)
2. People from Northern Ireland can chose either British or Irish citizenship. Neither jurisdiction "forces" people to chose one over the other. (BTW Ireland and the UK are extraordonarily intertwined countries. A huge percentage of UK residents and/or citizens are 1st or 2nd generation Irish - perhaps 10% or more.)

BTW, in Europe, one's political or economic background matters very little with regard to one views on Bush. From Ireland to Greece and Portugal to Finland, EVERYONE over here thinks he is a dangerous, maniacal , moronic asshole.

[Sputnik]

32. Hello, Chomp! :)

Thank you for posting. It's nice to hear from one of Ireland's own on this topic.

Don't worry: we're not ready to flood into your country just yet. We're still hopeful that we can change things here if we keep working. When I saw the article though, I just had to post it because it was a nice daydream on which to think.

I do have a question if you don't mind....No doubt Bush is disliked in Europe. From your viewpoint, how is Bill Clinton viewed there (during his presidency and now)? I know in Ireland, Clinton received a much more vigorous welcome as president than did Bush on his last visit.

[joelogan]

33. At least you have national referenda; also tell us about "The Dole"

Here in the "world's greatest democracy" we have no national referendum process. Our representatives decide everything for us, and they are pretty much completely owned by the corporations.

Now let's talk about how Ireland shares the wealth. Let's quantify some of this quality of life stuff:

You mention high unemployment. The true unemployment rate here in America is about 9-10%, and there are many who work very crappy jobs that pay very little. About 1/3 of all workers make less than $20,000.

Now for social services and other social aspects:

There is no national healthcare service. About 15 percent of all Americans have no healthcare except the emergency room, which would bankrupt them for cost. Health insurance for the unemployed/self employed is usually at least 10,000 dollars a year or more.

What about "The Dole"? We have no dole here. The only way to get money from the state is to have young children or be disabled. And getting that money entails going through a long and tedious process. And that money runs out in 5 years.

No able bodied person who is without dependent children may receive substantial monies from the state. A small amount may be obtained in some states for food, on a limited basis (in the vernacular, "food stamps"), and I believe those monies are available only for a limited time.

Unemployment payments are available to those who are laid off from their jobs. Usually about 300-400 dollars per month. Usually lasts 6 months, maybe a little longer in some places.

College tuition in a state funded school usually costs about 3000 dollars per year and takes about 4 to 5 years to complete the degree. That does not count housing and other costs. If the student is destitute (without substantial savings), the state may pay them about 1000 dollars per year).

As for vacation, the median vacation for a year here is about 10 days. About 50% of all workers get about 5-7 days of vacation a year. We have about 6 days of national holiday. About 10% of all workers have to work on one or more of those national holidays.

How does Ireland compare with these numbers?