Did Porn Drive Him to Kill Lacy

[MichaelHarris]

Here they go;

"Your tax dollars at work. Addiction to porn destroying lives, Senate told.

Comparing pornography to heroin, researchers on Thursday called on Congress to finance studies on "porn addiction" and launch a public health campaign about the dangers."

So republicans will fund porn research but not healthcare for children?

"Internet pornography is corrupting children and hooking adults into an addiction that threatens their jobs and families, a panel of anti-porn advocates told the hearing organized by Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., chairman of the Commerce subcommittee on science."

NO, outsourcing is threatening jobs, porn just makes it easier to have a healthy sex life

"Mary Anne Layden, co-director of a sexual trauma program at the University of Pennsylvania, said pornography's effect on the brain mirrors addiction to heroin or crack cocaine."

HEY, lets all do a line of porn

I got one thing to say to these guys, You can have my porn when you pry my cold dead fingers from my mouse.

Feel free to use my quote for any T-Shirt, Bumperstickers, or posters.

Michael Harris

[Streetdoc270]

1. This could be what we need

The Red state 'base' of GoB rednecks will rally to this line like you were trying to take their guns! All we have to do next election is tell them all "If you vote Republican they will take your porn!!!"

[r3verberate]

156. Though I know that everyone would beg to differ ..

.. but try to bundle Las Vegas and the 'what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas' pitch into the the debate of 'right vs. wrong'.

Republicans hate that. Sin City sends a lot of money to the GOP.

[private_ryan]

2. porn is demeaning to women

n/t

[MichaelHarris]

3. even the ones

making millions of dollars?

[private_ryan]

10. even those

the same way prostitution is. Women do it because they are oppressed by men and have no other choice. I'm just repeating what I read here on DU from self-proclaimed smart people.

[MichaelHarris]

16. I've never seen

a nude body that "oppressed" me, but then again I've never seen Dick Cheney naked.

[Quill Pen]

20. Sure you have.

[MichaelHarris]

26. this is as close as I wanna get

Dick, flashing back to his klan days and getting excited by seeing a man in white;

[Quill Pen]

33. Weeellll...there goes my appetite.

So much for dinner.

[MichaelHarris]

36. especially if you were gonna have

kilbasa

[SheepyMcSheepster]

44. lol, good one.

[ornotna]

71. I don't know why everyone is getting in an uproar

over a colostomy bag? :evilgrin:

[MichaelHarris]

76. either that

or a crazy ass squirrel

[Quill Pen]

112. What's that, Beavis and Butthead, the 2050 Reunion?

"Well, my colostomy bag's at high noon...hehheh..hehhehunh..hunhhunh"

[MichaelHarris]

117. hehhh heeeh hhhhheee huh look Bevis

I have a weasel in my pants.

[greblc]

75. I don't think I've ever seen him smile.

[Warren DeMontague]

93. "I'm Your Ice Cream Man, Stop Me When I'm Passin' By...

See, all my flavors are guaranteed to satisfffffyyyyyy...."

[MichaelHarris]

97. LMAO

hahahahahahaaa good one

[Kurovski]

113. It could be that he's just big-time nuts

er, HAS big nuts.

No meat, all potatoes.

[MichaelHarris]

119. my guess is

shoplifting at the Piggly-Wiggly meat department.

[rndmprsn]

50. LOL!

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Just what we need, that fight again.

Come on, hasn't this month been bad enough already?

[chicagiana]

91. Asia Carrera ...

Asia Carrera is a MENSA members. She made straight As in school. She could be doing whatever she wants right now.

She fucks for big money and the ONLY people being exploited are her customers!!

Stop treating adults as if they were children. Adults can decide for themselves whether or not they're being exploited. They can also decide for themselves whether what they do is demeaning.

It may very well seem demeaning to you. But perhaps thats just jealousy that you cannot attract eyes like they can. It's demeaning that they get the attention that you don't.

But it is ironic that liberal feminists and theocrats can agree on something, they both presume to impose their judgements on others.

[mongo]

163. Jenna Jameson, Nina Hartley, Jill Kelly

The list goes on and on. Intelligent women that chose porn for a living. Made millions, now they have their own companies.

[Pithlet]

108. Your enterpretation

of the other side of the argument. You aren't repeating anything.

[Stuckinthebush]

6. Not necessarily

That is an old 2nd wave feminist position. There are 3rd wave feminists that argue that some types of porn can be empowering. Interesting academic argument, actually.

[private_ryan]

18. I'm sorry

I lost count of the waves but women are smart enough to decide whether to have an abortion and be on the Supreme Court but not smart enough to decide whether they should do porno or sell their body. That's why we need to pass laws to protect them.

[St. Jarvitude]

22. Women are "not smart enough to decide whether they should do porno"?

I really, really hope that was tongue-in-cheek. And I still don't get it.

[Branjor]

23. So what?

Just because it's an "old" second wave position doesn't mean it is wrong. "Newer" does not equal "righter".

[private_ryan]

28. yeah

so women are equal and deserve the same rights as everyone else, expect when they decide to do certain things that some see as degrading to 50% of the population.

I see no double standard at all.

[Branjor]

31. Yeah, real double standard....

Am I the only woman on this thread?

[Warren DeMontague]

83. Probably not, but I think you're the only one who seems to be seriously

advocating censorship.

[Stuckinthebush]

138. Not at all

Second wave feminist theories were revolutionary and are still very valid. Third wave arguments take the theory to a different level.

[Pithlet]

115. The poster you are responding to

is just mocking those who aren't thrilled about porn, and acknowledge that in many instances, porn isn't exactly empowering to women.

[Stuckinthebush]

136. OK

Just making an observation. Yes, in many instances porn isn't empowering to women.

But there are feminist arguments that point out that sexuality and sensuality are empowering. This would include soft porn. I agree that porn that depicts women as toys to be used is demeaning. You get no argument from me there.

[Pithlet]

146. I would agree that not all porn is demeaning

and that would include porn with women in it. I agree with what you say. But, a lot of porn is. Pointing that out, to some people, is akin to promoting talabanic principles. There just is no gray area for some on either side of this debate. That particular poster you responded to thinks they're being clever and that his parody of women who disagree with him is right on the nose.

[Stuckinthebush]

149. Oh...

I don't know about the poster - I'll take your word for it.

I just love feminist theory - hell, I love any critical social theory!

[Warren DeMontague]

9. Censorship is demeaning to freethinking adult human beings.

n/t

[Liberal Veteran]

11. My gay porn collection is demeaning to women?

How so?

[Heddi]

12. Even Gay-male porn?

Amazing!

[DrWeird]

13. LOL.

Yes. So is letting them expose their faces in public markets.

:eyes:

[private_ryan]

17. you may have a point

if they are covered they will not be seen (at least seen less) as sex objects by their oppressors (men). We need laws to protect women

[Branjor]

27. What a stupid analogy....

Posing naked for male consumption is not just the same, no better, no worse than "exposing" one's face in public. It's too bad that feminist and right wing positions occasionally intersect but that is no reason to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Men just don't want anyone to take their dirty pictures away from them.

[private_ryan]

30. dirty pictures

would not be there if it wasn't for the women who pose for them. How about jailing those porn stars? I'll talk it over with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. I'm sure they'll put their political capital in this.

[Branjor]

32. How about jailing the porn makers?

The porn stars are just the victims. Maybe you think prostitution should be legalized too?

As to Falwell and Robertson, an occasional surface congruence of feminist to right wing positions does NOT justify throwing the baby (feminism) out with the bath water (porn).

[private_ryan]

34. victims?

because the porn stars are too stupid (some would argue smart) or too lazy to do real work, how is that anyone's fault?

Prostitution should be punishable by death, just like in Iran and Saudi Arabia. A woman has a constitutional right to kill her baby but not the privacy right to decide whether to charge for sex behind closed doors.

[Branjor]

35. My question was not answered...

Am I the only woman on this thread or am I just arguing with a bunch of men?

Here we go again, first it was jailing the porn stars, now it is "executing" the prostitutes. How about jailing the pimps?

Yeah, I'm a woman and I want to see women jailed and executed for sexually servicing men. You men just want to see us free <sarcasm>

[private_ryan]

40. No, but you're the only woman

who agrees with Sen. Brownback, Jerry Falwell, Mullah Omar, Pat Robertson, Ashcroft, James Dobson etc. etc.

[Branjor]

51. Yeah, sure.....

I agree with Falwell and the rest <strong sarcasm> The feminist anti porn position has nothing in common with the right wingnut anti porn position. The right wingnuts are concerned about "morality". The feminists are concerned about women's LIVES, something the right wingnuts have demonstrated over and over again they couldn't care less about. Actually, I don't think porn should be legislated against, but I think that women who are harmed in the making of it should have actionable rights. I agree with the old Dworkin MacKinnon statute that makes harm via porn actionable.

You have a lot more in common with Falwell et.al. You could all sit down and enjoy porn together.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. You mean Andrea "all hetero penetrative sex is rape" Dworkin?

Nope, sorry, the only difference between her crowd and the Ashcroft/Falwell Puritan gang is the symbols they wear around their necks.

[mongo]

173. "harmed by porn"

Actually, I don't think porn should be legislated against, but I think that women who are harmed in the making of it should have actionable rights. I agree with the old Dworkin MacKinnon statute that makes harm via porn actionable.

Sure, lets follow that logic. They found a bunch of girly mags in the apt. of the guy that raped me. So Hustler owes me damages for pain and suffering.

Oh and I only shoplifted that item because I saw a commercial that made me want it so bad and I didn't have the money. I think I will sue the product maker for my fines and compensation for the time I spend in jail.

I only shot that guy because I watched a graphic movie on TV. The TV company should pay for my trial and compensate my family for loss of consortium.

I only blew up that mosque because of how the towel-heads hurt me when they blew up the WTC. I should not be found guilty of any crime.

When you take a crime and put the blame on a third party, you demean the victium.

[DrWeird]

47. No. You're not the only woman.

You're just the only prude.

[Branjor]

53. BS, Weirdo....

If what I am is a prude, then I wear that label with PRIDE.

[DrWeird]

56. Fair enough.

I'm sure Mullah Omar's happy with himself too.

[Branjor]

63. Dr. Weird...

I'm sure you're as happy with YOURSELF as Mullah Omar is. You're both males who think YOU know what's best for women and have no respect for women who disagree with you. The only difference is Omar says women SHOULD NOT be free to do porn (morality, you know) and you think they SHOULD be free to (you want your dirty pics). Actually, as I said, I don't think it should be legislated against, but that is not the same as not seeing it as problematical. Porn is deeply problematical, as are women's "choices" to go into it. It is a complex subject and you would have to study deeply, esp. feminist anti porn writings, to fully understand it. It is certainly not simply a matter of "prudery".

[MichaelHarris]

65. and where will you jail

the individuals who want to do porn and make a good living at it who didn't realize they were demeaning themselves until you told them so?

[Branjor]

74. See my posts above...

I DON'T want to jail them.

[MichaelHarris]

78. just ban them?

take away their livlihood? Tatoo them with porn across their foreheads? Didn't our country try that already, something about burning at the stake?

[Pithlet]

123. But you must!

Anyone who isn't enthusiastic about porn is automatically lumped in with the nuts that want to ban it and jail everyone. It's just like the gun nuts who think that people who are for gun control just want to take their guns away.

You will soon learn that there is NO middle ground on this issue for a lot of people.

[DrWeird]

66. I know, I'm nuts aren't I?

"he only difference is Omar says women SHOULD NOT be free to do porn (morality, you know) and you think they SHOULD be free to (you want your dirty pics)."

I think that women SHOULD be free to do whatever they want to do. Call me a radical.

[MichaelHarris]

70. it's almost as if the poster is saying

"it's alright for a woman to have free choice, as long as she doesn't choose porn"

[DrWeird]

77. What's the poster is saying...

is that it's alright for a woman to have free choice as long as it's what I choose.

Which is the problem I have with Comstock, Mullah Omah, pro-lifers, and prudes in every walk of life.

[MichaelHarris]

79. amen n/t

[chicagiana]

103. No we think that ...

... we think that a WOMAN knows best for herself. If she's content to take $5 for a 5 minute dance, I'm the only one being exploited!!!

If women want to fuck for big money, thats their business. It's THEIR decision.

30 years ago women WERE severly restricted from the workplace. Access to pornography was limited to the nude only (no genital) playboy and under the counter stag films.

Today women have unprecedented access to opportunities at the workplace. At the same time, porn production and consumption is at record levels!!!

I think the feminist arguments that women turn to "flashing their stuff" for lack of opportunity is pretty baseless in this environment. The smut peddlers WERE right all along. The girls working with them just plain LOVE SEX and don't mind exhibiting it!!!

In fact, porn is one of the few industries in which MEN are discriminated against. Thats right, the women make FOUR TIMES as much as the men!!!! The oddity of the thing is that the men's job on the porn set is MUCH HARDER (no pun intended) than the women's jobs.

It turns out that getting an erection reliably with all those people around isn't so easy. Very few men can do it!!! Porn shoots are long ordeals and the "woodsmen" often have to take breaks to go jerk off so they can get their erections back up.

There is a CLEARLY a problem in the porn industry. EQUAL PAY FOR PORN STUDS I say!!! The women do half the work and get paid 4 times as much!!!!

[mongo]

167. So you support a womans right to make choices you agree with

Porn is deeply problematical, as are women's "choices" to go into it. It is a complex subject and you would have to study deeply, esp. feminist anti porn writings, to fully understand it. It is certainly not simply a matter of "prudery".

Perhaps you should read some feminist pro porn writings. May I suggest Nadine Strossen's book Defending Pornography?

[MichaelHarris]

60. it's really very simple

if you find posing for your significant other demeaning then don't do it, if you find it erotic then send me the pictures.

[CatBoreal]

59. No you are not the only woman....

... hang on...(cups self)... you are definitely not the only woman.

1) have no problem with porn where all participants have consented. That means kiddie porn is not okay. That means rape-porn is not okay. Both should be tried as sexual assault in my opinion.

2) In the words of the immortal George Carlin: "F*cking is legal. Selling is legal. Why isn't selling f*cking legal?"

"The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

Cam

[MichaelHarris]

64. free porn?

seriously if porn legislation passes then "porn" has to be defined. Do you honestly want the administration who wants to cover works of art because of its nudity making that definition? (Help me someone with the link of Ashcroft wanting that statue covered) After all as free-thinking humans, supposedly a higher life form on this planet isn't it possible that we can define what is porn to us and what is demeaning? Will you let your government make you believe that all crime is born out of porn?

[Branjor]

69. No....

I don't want that administration doing it. With them, "Our Bodies Our Selves" would be banned faster than "See him cut and tear her".

[Warren DeMontague]

88. Yes, and all porn is "see him cut and tear her"...

I spent close to a decade working for a small chain of indie video stores. Your generalizations about what porn is and who watches it, and what it represents, may fly at Smith College, but they bear very little resemblance to actual reality. For the record, most (but not all) porn is not misogynistic in nature, and in terms of who watches it, it is across the board watched by not just men, but also women and many, many couples. That's my experience.

[MichaelHarris]

96. I'm still trying to figure out

when Jenna Jammison takes her check to the bank who is actually being demeaned? Is it her? Her staff, mostly women? Is it the banker? The producers? The viewer? You know who it is but it's actually very politically incorrect to mention. I'll try and do it in a kind manner, there are individuals in this world who may have been abused who take stands such as these against porn, there are also individuals who, lets say led a "plain" life, maybe they weren't the homecoming king or queen, maybe the phone didn't ring alot when they were growing up, some like me had to smear pork chop grease on themselves to get the dog to play with them. These "plain" people take stands such as this because maybe they weren't one of the "beautiful" people. It's just a theory, don't flame me, after all I'm the one with pork chop grease on me.

[DrWeird]

104. Never mind...

all the millions of amateur pornographers who just enjoy having sex and filming it.

[Warren DeMontague]

151. I'm not enough of an armchair psychoanalyst

to want to delve too deeply into speculations about what drives people (and there sure seem to be a lot of them) who have this weird fixation on telling other people how they shouldn't be getting their jollies. I mean, I was at the big pro-choice march in April in DC, and I can tell you that whatever their other motivations, the 200 or so "pro-life" hecklers who turned out didn't look like they had had a single satisfactory orgasm among the lot of them since, say, 1977...

My opinion? As long as we're talking about consenting adults, I don't think any of it is the government's business.

[Kali]

132. Hi, I'm a woman and I have joined the thread, but you probably

won't like my take. As with EVERYTHING in life there are grey areas and continuums. In general I think both porn and prostitution should be legal. I do agree that it often is exploitive, but not too much more than any demeaning work and in many cases not exploitive (of the women involved) at all. Indeed for some it is probably very lucrative and even enjoyable. Like someone mentioned above, what about gay porn? What about porn aimed or "consumed" by women? I am of the attitude to each his own unless someone is CLEARLY doing something against their will, or is in fact shown to be harmed in some way.

[Liberal Veteran]

37. Actually I do think prostitution should be legal.

I think it makes absolutely no sense to penalize someone for charging for a service but ignore it if they give it away for free (or in exchange for a dinner/movie).

[Branjor]

55. You may have a point there....

It has been said that marriage is only "respectable" prostitution.

[Warren DeMontague]

86. I don't think the government has any business telling consenting adults

what they can or can't do with their bodies in private. If that includes exchanging sex for money, so be it.

[private_ryan]

137. dinner or movie

not both. Please don't raise the prices ;)

[SheepyMcSheepster]

52. hell man, the repubs just need to go ahead and get their sex police going

edit: sorry meant to reply to original post.

by the way well played Private :D

[chicagiana]

102. I think prostitution should be legal ...

In some cases women indeed have no choice. But go visit the Bunny Ranch and you'll find women who make awesome money, they're clean and they can retire after five years.

What is their crime in your eyes ... they LOVE FUCKING!!! And they don't mind having sex with strangers!!!

Prohibition on prostitution is what drives it underground and puts women at the mercies of pimps and the streets. Legal brothels in Nevada do good above the board business. The girls are examined and tested for STDs regularly. Condom use is strictly enforced!!!

No one tells you what you have to shove in your vagina. Don't tell anyone what they can't shove in theirs!!!!

[Forkboy]

122. "Maybe you think prostitution should be legalized too"

Um...yeah,I do :shrug:

[mondo joe]

159. That's the repub abortion argument: jail the docs, not the women

Funny.

[DrWeird]

38. "male consumption"

That's the same kind of thing Mullah Omar says about women who expose their faces in public.

[private_ryan]

41. Coming soon: women should be able to sue

men for looking at them sexually. What do you think, will we see this in our lifetime?

[Liberal Veteran]

43. And we still haven't addressed gay male porn.

Or what happens when lesbians buy porn.

[private_ryan]

45. they're exploiting the weaker females

traitors to the cause. They should be shot

[Liberal Veteran]

58. Reminds me of episode of Ab Fab...

Where they a porn magazine.

Saffy: That's *disgusting*! That is *so* degrading to women!
Patsy: What do you mean? *She's* got the whip.

[MichaelHarris]

54. or to make it more confusing

when gay men by lesbian porn. That will rock the cosmos.

[MichaelHarris]

99. gay male porn is offensive to me

they all have bigger "thingies" than I do.

[chicagiana]

106. Yet another milestone in gay rights ...

Male/gay pornstars make a LOT more than Male/straight pornstars. The difference is so disparate, that many GAY pornstars are actually straight!!!

So again, the feminists seem to oppose opportunities for women and gays to make an excellent living!!!!

Ya know, a career in porn isn't for everybody. But then again MOST careers aren't for everybody!!!

[Forkboy]

124. the only thing wrong with gay porn

is that they charge you nearly twice as much to buy it.

I know,I used to sell it :)

[Liberal Veteran]

126. Buy porn?

:shrug:

I don't understand.

[Forkboy]

134. heh

seems a shame to do so,but some people actually pay for it :)

[Pithlet]

144. If there was porn

where straights hired gays and lesbians to perform in a manor homophobic and degrading by paying them more than they would ever make otherwise, then that would be the equivalent to much (notice I did not say all) traditional porn.

[chicagiana]

105. Technically ...

... they already kinda CAN. Depends on the situation and the aggresiveness of the lawyer!!!

[Branjor]

57. yeah?

Well, it's been said by American feminists too. Go tell Gloria Steinem she's Mullah Omar.

[private_ryan]

140. I'll tell her

what ...we should scared of her?

[Pithlet]

111. I'm not anti-porn

But, your comparison of people who are against it to people who oppress women in that manner is ludicrous.

Really, it's posts like that that make me sorry I'm defending it.

[DrWeird]

128. Bah.

Can't have sexual liberation and sexual repression at the same time.

[Pithlet]

129. But you can

recognize exploitation without condemning all of porn. You can recognize is it there and discuss it without being a prude. But, doing so is like discussing gun control. It's impossible without having a gun nut jump down your throat about their rights, and how you just want to take their guns away. The two issues really are eerily similar in how rabidly defended they are, even though they have nothing to do with each other.

[DrWeird]

130. Sure.

To bad Mullah Omar up there condemned all of porn.

[Pithlet]

131. Forget it.

You obviously can't discuss this subject rationally.

[DrWeird]

133. And you're being rational?

Funny you forget the moment somebody points out a major flaw in your argument.

[Pithlet]

135. What are you talking about? n/t

[MichaelHarris]

39. mmmmmmm

dirty pictures

[Branjor]

42. Not for you

buster.

Yeah, I'm a woman and I find it demeaning to women.

[DrWeird]

46. I'm a liberal.

I find censorship and pruddishness demeaning to everybody.

[private_ryan]

48. I'll argue it more in a while

but now I have to watch this gangbang video...

[MichaelHarris]

61. hahahahahahaha

that was funny, you have to admit it. I spewed coke.

[Branjor]

85. Gangbang your own sex,

"Private".

[private_ryan]

143. you're mad at mother nature aren't you?

it pisses you off that women LOVE men...with the faults that we have. Evolution works perfectly. Those who hate men don't get to breed and dont go that far.

[Branjor]

147. newsflash....

No woman has to LOVE men in order to breed. And, further newsflash, breeding is NOT a matter of life or death. However,if I want to "breed", I'll do so. And I don't have to stick around forever after I do it if I don't want to either. Yes, evolution DOES work perfectly. I'm CRAZY about mother nature!

[MichaelHarris]

49. dang it

I was hoping for pictures :)

I find it demeaning when governments want to pass laws telling you what is demeaning, I've reached an education level in my life that lets me decide what is demeaning. Some will lead others will follow I guess.

"We are like sculptors, constantly carving out of others the image we long for, need, love or desire, often against reality, against their benefit, and always, in the end, a disappointment, because it does not fit them."

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."

Anais Nin


Some women were kinda cool with porn.

[Lone Pawn]

165. And I'm a man and I find the existance of beards demeaning to men.

Obvious secondary-sexual-trait exploitation. I think all beards should be banned so not to offend men.

[mondo joe]

161. I'm pro choice. I trust women to decide what to do w their own bodies

I don't know why you don't.

[St. Jarvitude]

25. The more posts of yours I read, the more I think it's tongue-in-cheek

At least, I really, really hope so. I hope I'm not delusional.

[ObaMania]

29. Jenna Jamison would disagree with you. n/t

[Democat]

62. Women buy porn too!

Some porn is demeaning to women, but so are some mainstream movies, magazines, and other stuff.

Many women enjoy porn.

[against all enemies]

72. names?

[geniph]

87. Me, for one

I'm female, and I've seen porn I enjoy. I'm not a major consumer of the stuff, because most of it's pretty damn lame. But it's also pretty harmless, in my opinion. My husband likes to look at nekkid ladies on the Internet when he has time to kill. I have no problem with this. Why would I? I like to look at the nekkid ladies sometimes too. I'd look at nekkid men, if there were more out there who didn't look like Ron Jeremy (gay porn is way better than straight porn for having attractive men).

[MichaelHarris]

98. this is a woman I can get behind

man o man am I on the short bus to hell.

[Liberal Mommy]

157. Well here is another female who likes porn

I've bought my husband a lot of porn. I especially like lesbian porn, go ahead and bash away. :)

[bicentennial_baby]

155. Me!

I love porn! Straight porn, lesbian porn, gay porn. It's hot!

[mongo]

169. Ladies - thanks for comming out!

I'd say that 40% of my movie business is couples shopping together.

[chicagiana]

107. Lots of porn is being produced by women now ...

... I think Jill Kelly and Nina Hartley are out in front making smut that appeals to both a male AND female audience. Of course everyone's thing is different and what offends one women can turn another on.


Of course, I think this is all over-analyzed by people who think that porn should have real content instead of just the screwing. Plot in porn is probably the #1 reason that fast-forward keys exist !!! ;-)

Though, some of the unscripted gonzo stuff I've seen is kinda interesting since you get people REALLY talking instead of reading bad dialogue and PRETENDING that the production is for anything other than the exposition of sex!!!!

[greblc]

73. What about men?

[Kurovski]

109. Even the ones with hot man on man action?

Even that produced by lesbians?

You may feel demeaned, but not everyone agrees.

You will have to avoid the porn as best you can.

Personally, I find woman making less dough than men for the same work (in the twenty-first century!) to be actually and realistically demeaning.

[Porcupine]

152. Building houses is demeaning to men...

it hurts our backs and knees. We slice off fingers with saws and work with dangerous, toxic and caustic materials. We go home every friday missing little bits of skin where we scraped something. But people need houses. People need sexual stimulation also.

Agriculture is worse, mining or fishing are worse still. Any salmon eating porn-haters out there?

Porn actresses earn two-weeks of a working mans pay per day while remaining squeaky clean, warm and coddled. Just look how healthy those girls are.

There are a lot of jobs with worse working conditions that women do that pay waaaay less. There are a lot of people who don't have jobs at all. Work at Wal-Mart for a month or boink a guy in front of a camera for three hours? Hell I'd bend over and take the boinking and I'm a straight male. (too ugly for porn though)

Sorry but the evidence seems to be that porn is good for women. Societies with fewer restrictions on porn have less rape, murder and domestic violence. Girls who know that the guy they're with is choosing them for something other than visual stimulation have more of a chance of building lasting relationships.

If women want to compete with porn they can do what they've been demanding men do since the beginning of the sexual revolution; listen to their mens needs.

[maxudargo]

172. You're right, but don't try to make that argument here.

You would think pornography was the height of personal expression in this country. And the right of corporations to make millions exploiting human sexuality is a right liberals will apparently defend to the death.

Feminism is dead. Funny thing...they all apparently wanted to be treated like pieces of meat all along. Joke's on us.

[Stuckinthebush]

4. Oh lordy! Now that would be a hoot...

I can see the GOP right wing chruch lady squad going after porn and pissing off every one of those "Nascar Dads" in the South.

Are we ever going to have a congress that will discuss the real things that are a danger to our society?

Jeez....

[Warren DeMontague]

5. I don't think it's your...

mouse they'll be prying your cold dead fingers from...

But, anyway.

Deficit? What Deficit?

I think I remember this study-- when it was done by something called the "Meese commission"

Oh well. Another shining moment of lucidity from the party that wants "less government control of people's lives" (Kaff!)

[MichaelHarris]

14. LOL

well the 'other' thing won't be dead, it'll live on in the hearts and minds of thousands, well not thousands, but alot of women.

[Liberal Veteran]

7. Porn kills! Just look at the per capita murder rate in Denmark!

LOL.

[porphyrian]

8. This is just the strategic next step...

...to controlling the internet. Just wait.

[Reverend_Smitty]

15. do you have a link to this article?

I'd like to read it to a Republican because he thinks they are the party of small government

[MichaelHarris]

19. here is some info I think the links are porn free

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/11/19/porn/index_np.html

http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary_Navigation=Articles&Action=View_Article&Content_ID=206620

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/11/19/congresscritters_tol.html

[Reverend_Smitty]

21. awesome, thanks!

I'll check them out!

[MichaelHarris]

67. It's a shame that a thread with such healthy debates

will probably get locked. Hopefully most will get their say on the matter.

[okieinpain]

68. so now we're going to wage a bigger war on porn then the

drug lords in afghanistian.

[MichaelHarris]

80. yeah it's called

Operation Stop the Wacking Off

[Warren DeMontague]

81. If by "drug lords in afghanistan" you really mean

Tommy Chong selling bongs on the internet, or terminally ill cancer patients smoking pot in Oakland, or persons with crippling pain needing doctors who aren't scared of the DEA to prescribe them pain medication, then have no fear- you are mistaken.

[greblc]

82. Different Stokes for different folks.

Adults should have the right to do and view what ever they like as long as both parties are consenting. No Minors or Animals. With the exception of "Mr. ED" of course.

[porphyrian]

89. No.

Porn isn't the culprit, or 80% or more of American men would be sociopaths. Sexual repression causes more psychosis than mere porn "addiction."

[chicagiana]

90. Yes ...

... it's called preservation of the species.

But we have a bit of a hangup about the nasty in this nation. Go over to Europe where penetration isn't a big thing. And porn just fades into the background. Naked bodies are a fact of life as is sex.

For the real agenda, consult 1984. It explains the whole prudish culture to a tee.

Viva Porn, fuck'em all Kobe Tai!!!!!

[chicagiana]

92. A good start ....

www.89.com

Clearly we all need to do more "research" on the subject ;-)

[slutticus]

94. Wouldn't it make more sense to compare porn with alcohol?

I know people can get addicted to porn, just like one may be an alcoholic. Alcohol is very bad for an alcoholic...but not all of us have an addiction.

These people have no desire to cure people who may be addicted to porn, they simply want to get rid of porn all together.

And what does this have to do with Lacy Peterson....did I miss something?

Now if you'll excuse me, I will go do a line of porn.

[Razorback_Democrat]

95. Actually As a Mental Health Professional

I agree that porn is damaging when a person is addicted.

I don't know whether porn is addictive, or whether there are addictive prone persons who get addicted to anything that stimulates pleasure centers in the brain and is a distraction from reality.

There are thousands of persons who have addictions to sex and while it may be the butt of jokes, sexual addiction can be as devastating, or more devastating than an addiction to a substance.

And it may be that sexual addictions are harder to quit than other addictions.

Food for thought.

[MichaelHarris]

100. If we take the addictive

approach then wouldn't it be wiser to ban alcohol? Thousands die every year from alcohol related actions while porn has killed what? Maybe none?

[slutticus]

101. Of course.

Isn't anything damaging if a person is addicted?
I don't think anyone would disagree with that.



I almost didn't finish my freakin' doctorate because of DU. Seriously. I had to quit DU cold-turkey for a while...

[chicagiana]

114. Seeking substance abuse ...

... yeah but there is physical addiction and mental addiction.

Someone prone to psychological addiction will simply find ANOTHER addiction if the original one is removed. Clothes, shopping, sex, CUTTING ... whatever, it's the JONES that's the problem, not the object of the Jonesing!!!!!

[private_ryan]

145. yeah

if you get addicted to drinking too much water is harmful too. You have to define harmful and addiction to make it stick and what % of people fit that bill. I guarantee you is way less that cigarette and alcohol addiction.

[mondo joe]

160. What constitutes a "mental health professional"?

What's your education?

[mongo]

175. I am so sick of the addictive meme

for everything from shopping to video games to porn.

Are there compulsive people in this world? Yes, but porn itself is not an addictive substance. There is no way to get dependent on it.

I sit at my register 50 hours/week. I do have some regular customers, but they spend $30-50/week tops. If a single guy jacks off every day, that is not a problem, but if the same guy watches porn while jacking off, then he is "addicted"

The new "addiction" model is junk science at its worst.

[chicagiana]

110. Somehow I doubt someone will ...

... I doubt someone will curl up into a ball with a brain busting headeache and outrageous gut-busting nausea if they don't get their porn!!!

Shit, caffiene is more addictive than porn!!!!

[Kurovski]

120. true

and people can become psychologically dependent on anything.

Only some things are actually, physically addictive.

Things like sugar! Ban the honey-buns!

[MichaelHarris]

170. mmmmmm honey buns

both the porn ones and the bakery ones

[barbaraann]

116. Ten Reasons for Not Legalizing Prostitution

http://action.web.ca/home/catw/readingroom.shtml?x=32972&AA_EX_Session=c0e601eb1cadf9f2249e441c93e7467f

Here's an excerpt but the whole article is worth reading.

">>>Governments that legalize prostitution as “sex work” will have a huge economic stake in the sex industry. Consequently, this will foster their increased dependence on the sex sector. If women in prostitution are counted as workers, then governments can abdicate responsibility for making decent and sustainable employment available to women.
Instead of abandoning women in the sex industry to state-sponsored prostitution, laws should address the predation of men who buy women for the sex of prostitution. Men who use women in prostitution have long been invisible. Legislators often leap onto the legalization bandwagon because they think nothing else is successful. But there is a legal alternative. Rather than sanctioning prostitution, states could address the demand by penalizing the men who buy women for the sex of prostitution.
Sweden has drafted legislation recognizing that without male demand, there would be no female supply. Thinking outside the repressive box of legalization, Sweden has acknowledged that prostitution is a form of male violence against women and children, and the purchase of sexual services is criminalized. The inseparability of prostitution and trafficking is recognized by the Swedish law: “Prostitution and trafficking in women are seen as harmful practices that cannot, and should not be separated; in order to effectively eliminate trafficking in women, concrete measures against prostitution must be put in place” (Ekberg, 2003, p. 69).
Sweden’s Violence Against Women Government Bill (1997/98:55 (4), prohibits and penalizes the purchase of “sexual services” (Swedish Government Offices, 1998). This approach targets the male demand for prostitution: “By prohibiting the purchase of sexual services, prostitution and its damaging effects can be counteracted more effectively than hitherto” (Swedish Government Offices, 1998, p.2). The Swedish legislation criminalizing the buyers is based on the policy that “Prostitution is not a desirable social phenomenon” and is “an obstacle to the ongoing development towards equality between women and men (Swedish Government Offices, 1998, p.2).” Furthermore, the law against purchasing sexual services is part of a wider Violence Against Women Bill that allocates resources to support the development of alternatives for women in prostitution
Results of the Swedish legislation thus far have been promising. The prohibition against men buying prostituted women has received strong social support. Several polls, conducted in 2000 and 2001, show that approximately 80% of the Swedish population support the law. Of those who want to repeal the law, the majority are men, with only 7% of women in support of repeal (Jacobson, 2002, p.24). Most importantly, women who are attempting to leave prostitution support the law (Ekberg, 2001). Swedish NGOs that work with women in prostitution also support the law and maintain that since passage of the law, increased numbers of women contact them for assistance. The very existence of the law, and the fact that people know it will be enforced, they say, serve as an aid to young women who are vulnerable to pimps and procurers (Ekberg, 2001).
Street prostitution has declined in the three years since the law was passed. The number of prostituted women has decreased by 50%, and 70-80% of the buyers have left public places. Furthermore, a police representative maintained that there is no indication that prostitution has gone underground, or that prostitution in sex clubs, escort agencies and brothels has increased (Björling, 2001). Police have also stated that the Swedish law prohibiting the purchase of sexual services has had a chilling effect on trafficking (5). According to police, were it not for the law, Sweden, like Norway and Finland, would experience major trafficking of Russian women across the border. In the northern regions of both Norway and Finland, trafficked Russian women are made to service Scandinavian men in prostitution camps (Bystrom, 2001).
Women’s and human rights groups should be advocating for study and replication of the Swedish law. Instead of giving carte blanche to profoundly abusive sex industries, governments should respond to the male violence and sexual exploitation of women in prostitution by legally addressing the demand for prostitution..."

[Branjor]

150. Thank you barbaraann

For one of the few posts on this thread that addresses pornography in a nonsuperficial manner.

And pithlet too.

[Lone Pawn]

166. You mean

Thank you barbaraann for one of the few posts on this tread that addresses pornography in a manner that entirely agrees with my neopuritan viewpoint.

[Skittles]

118. I don't consider myself anti-porn but if you are addicted to it

you have a f***ing problem, no pun intended

[Pithlet]

127. PRUDE!!!!!!!!!

You just want to take all their porn away! And jail them, too! You don't want women to have choices!!!!!

Someone else will do it, so I thought I'd save them the trouble. There is NO middle ground on this issue, apparently. Must. Not Criticize. Porn. Ever!

[eauclaireliberal]

121. RE: Did Porn Drive Him to Kill Lacy

Odd, isn't it? </sarcasm>. This is the same thing that Ted Bundy claimed, yet he wasn't the great GOP hope to push an agenda on the American people.

Of course, this is before Raygun and Robertson brought the "Moral Majority" into the loop...because they were a joke at that point, and for the most part, they still are. Bunch of Ward Cleavers with sniper rifles.

[lectrobyte]

125. blaming murder on porn? seems like I remember some study

that found the number one "inspiration" for scizophrenics who had killed someone was The Bible. I'm personally sort of conflicted by porn, some of it seems kind of distasteful to, but different strokes for different folks. I'm all for freedom of speech. If you've been to Europe, you'd probably realize a healthy attitude towards sex and nudity is OK, and I imagine that our freak out over a second and a half of a nipple on TV is just puzzling to someone who sees more than that every day on a billboard.

Disclaimer: I live in the South, and we have more "massage parlors" and "bookstores" per capita than anywhere else.

[xequals]

139. The views expressed on this thread are why I am a libertarian.

At one time liberals could be depended on to at least fight for civil liberties - no more.

I worry deeply about the nanny state socialism of the left as much as the theocratic moralism of the right. Doesn't matter what part of the political spectrum authoritarianism comes from, it all scares me as an American.

In recent years the left has become especially aligned with female concerns. The Democrats are truly the mommy party now, and are no longer concerned with the Constitution - just what they want society to be: gun control, smoking bans in nightclubs and bars, ridiculous lawsuits against fast food chains. I've even heard reports that liberals are looking to tax cosmetic surgery - perhaps to punish what they see as materialism/greed/superficiality ? Next will be the Internet - which only grew as big and popular as it is due to lack of regulation. The Internet is very libertarian in nature and is not safe from those on the left and right who want to remake it based on their own worldview (instead of accepting the natural order), just as they've attempted to remake society.

The feminists will align with the moralists to censor pornography (and many other things) - it is just a matter of time.

And it is just a matter of time until many other Americans wake up and see that the fight is not left vs. right - it is authoritarianism vs. libertarianism.

Those of you who feel comfortable "giving up" someone else's rights simply because it doesn't affect you directly, may want to keep this quote in mind:

"They came for the communists, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a communist; They came for the socialists, and I did not speak up because I was not a socialist; They came for the union leaders, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a union leader; They came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up for me." Martin Niemoller, 1892-1984

[Pithlet]

141. Crap

Liberals aren't going to ban the bible. They aren't going to take all the guns away. And they aren't going to ban porn.

[Pithlet]

142. And another thing

Take your persecution complex and shove it you know where.

My mother in law had to leave her then communist country because her boyfriend DISAPPEARED. Telling you that some porn exploits some people isn't the same thing. It isn't in the ball park. It's not on the continent. It's not in the friggin universe. So, stop whining about being persecuted because someone points out that the people who make porn are not the same people who make Barny and Friends.

[eauclaireliberal]

154. RE:"The views expressed on this thread are why I am a libertarian."

Well said.

You should stop by Liberty forum sometime (that is, if you aren't already a member).

I come to DU as well as other sites to get POV's from all sides of the "political spectrum"

The freepers go on about how the Constitution does not specifically cover pornography, so therefore their crusade of morality is just. Bullshit.

The Du'ers and the BCF'ers start tearing into it, saying that it is exploitive.

Folks, either look at it or don't look at it. If one thinks that porno is effecting the nation's moral fiber, or is denigrating to women, then we need to take a good strong look at the BASE of our own values instead of zapping something that offends us.

Porno is printed on presses like a newspaper, or put out on the internet like articles from the NYT or the Guardian.

Ted Bundy tried the porno defense-and even with the Xtian RW on his side, his defense got tossed out.

Porno usually involves consenting adults. If a particular individual is NOT a consenting adult, then that is a whole DIFFERENT MATTER. That's a crime. We are supposed to have a judicial system to handle this sort of thing.

Just think about where these crusades will lead us. Chaucer and Salinger will be taken off the library shelves and replaced with the Bible. Read anything else, and society shuns you as an undesirable.

[private_ryan]

168. no one wants to ban porn

we just want to have feminist approved porn. Much more dialogue where the woman is quizzed on her math, arts and science knowledge before engaging in sex. Carefully choreographed positions (not to show then as inferior) of course. Also you have to be careful so men aren't turned on by the sex but by her personality and brain.

I have no problem trusting a few man-hating women sitting in their ivory towers to decide what's best for all women. Women can't make those tough decisions themself and need to be protected just like underage kids need to. Thank god we got a few smart women to stand up for the rest.

[snoochie]

148. This is crazy

Adults are adults. If adult women want to sell sexual favors I have no problem with it.

I do have a huge problem with allowing the government any more control over my body than they already have.

And for the record: I am a woman, and I enjoy porn.

[knight_of_the_star]

153. I'll bring this to my Human Sexuality prof

She has a doctorate, I think she might know if there is substantial proof for the heroin statement.

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gordianot]

162. Bundy made the same claim on the 11th hour.

Really really lame. A Republican hack until the end.

[leftofthedial]

164. They'll have to pry my cold dead fingers from something

but it might not be my mouse.

[Nikia]

171. I think that porn can make a problem worse for some men

That problem is that they don't see women as people, only as sex object. I think that many men can consume porn without having this problem. I think that most men who develop severe problems with porn are inclined this way anyway. I think that porn makes it worse though. Just like many liberals who come to DU become even more liberal after spending lots of time here frequently (not that is a problem just an analogy). I don't have a problem with porn exactly, just the notion that women are mainly sex objects. It really bugs me that many men who I encounter have this belief.

[private_ryan]

174. you have hit the nail in the head

the problem is that all these men are buying sex tapes expecting to get turned on.

[Nikia]

176. It is not wrong to get turned on by porn

What is wrong is to think that all women should be like porn stars. The attractive ones should want to have sex with you and if not, they are bitches. The unattractive ones are worthless. I just think that this is a message portrayed by porn (and unfortunately the mainstream media in many cases)and some men who are inclined to think this way may have their beliefs more strongly reinforced by watching porn. An anti Semetic person may have his beliefs reinforced more by reading Hitler's work. I don't think that either should be banned. I am just saying that it might not all be harmless.