Who do you think will be in good shape in the Bush Depression?

[Dem Agog]

Just wondering. Obviously if Bush alienates "his base" he will be alienating his friends, so my feeling is that some folks will make out like bandits in our next Great Depression courtesy of Bush.

Who will that be? Will the stock market crash? What about the "investor" class?

What about homeowners?

We know the average Joe with mounting debt will be crushed under interest rates, etc.

Who benefits from the boy Hitler's moves?

[havocmom]

1. His REAL base, as he himself defined them in clip from F911: The Haves

& the Have Mores

Edited (after a sip of java) to add: The Fundie base will enjoy their new woes. The seem to delight is finding things to feel persecuted about, makes them feel more like Jesus. They will blame us for their persecution because the propaganda miesters have them so well conditioned. Remember, boys & girls, the Nazis ALWAYS had scapegoats to deflect people's anger to. Gays, liberals, pagans, people of color and uppity women are the prime scapegoats

[Deja Q]

2. Only people with boatloads of cash. But if a loaf of bread costs a

wheelbarrow full of money, their boatload won't last for long and who's gonna be able to buy their extraneous weekend yacht?

[MASSAFRA]

3. I think that I will be alright.

I have a state job and will be able to retire in four years with medical benefits. My house is paid off and my daughter should graduate college in two more years. I was putting money into IRAs in the early 1980's and they are doing well. I may not be a millionaire, but I should be alright.

I voted for Kerry because four more years of debt will hurt my daughter more then me.

[Deja Q]

4. Don't be so sure.

I know many people who had state jobs and lost them; some close to retirement time.

Be vigilant. When my union president says 'no job is safe', I've taken the words as a form of comfort. I know that, as with my life, my job is not infinite in length. With my weakened physiological condition, I know my time is coming too.

[MASSAFRA]

8. I could retire now

put would not get the benefits. There are a lot of people with less seniority then me. We have been working for four months without a contract. We are waiting for the arbitration.

I also do not know how bad things are going to get.

[havocmom]

7. anybody counting on a pension/benefits is probably in for a nasty surprise

As budgets get crunched by the robber barons stealing treasuries, do you really think state governments are gonna make good on their obligations? Private companies are already backing out of their obligations. Soon, government pensions will be attacked as the junta pits young workers against the retirees. Mark my words. And store some food staples.

[MASSAFRA]

15. I can see a French Revolution scenario

being played out here. Bush will run up the deficit to give the illusion that everything is going well. I don't see a real collapse coming until the end of his term. Until then we will here a lot of crap about coming together as a nation to fight against evil doers. This will pacify some until the damage is to great to ignore.

Until then, I will support progressive candidates and hope for the best. Things that are out of my control are not going to bother me.

[havocmom]

22. I find gardening to be a good stress reliever

It also teaches useful skills too ;)

[salin]

24. am starting to plan for a new garden

for the spring, already. Was thinking mostly flowers and self-done landscaping... now am leaning more towards a healthy vegetable garden...

[goddess40]

26. Don't count your chickens

This is Goddess40's mom. I am a retired state worker who gets health benefits, including prescription drug coverage, from the state. Sen. Feingold told me there is a real possibility the state will discontinue that drug coverage when the Medicare Prescription Bill kicks in. That would cost me $4000/year if I were to continue the medications I am on now.

[mulethree]

5. The 'Haves" who invest in defense and in overseas companies

and in companies that make police riot gear

[zeemike]

6. The one that has real property

and not wealth on paper.

If the dollar continues to fall I really do not fully understand the total effect on the economy but I do know that the only thing that holds its value is real tangible assets like land and real estate, gold or precious metals or something like that.

[SoCalDem]

11. We have cash..and our house is almost paid for..

Not a LOT of cash, but enough to move somewhere cheaper.. I am a good grocery shopper and a "frugal gourmet".. If we do not live too long, we should be able to weather the storm.. (fingers crossed)

[havocmom]

12. How does real estate get/hold its value? Marketplace, isn't it?

So if nobody can buy anything, what happens to real estate values? If the land will grow food, that would be valuable. Otherwise... ever hear the term "land rich and dirt poor"? There are lots of people where I live who know that phrase all too well.

edit: typo

[salin]

23. agreed ... if value drops to a great degree

at least in the near future the only value is that one doesn't risk becoming homeless and has driven down living costs (no rent). They way I have watched over development happen with weight on high end homes... were a real estate bubble to burst - there would be a huge flood on the market. In the mid nineties I watched a family in the Bay area (before the housing market took off again) take a near $100,000 hit on their home, but after a year on the market - (and they had already relocated) they couldn't afford to keep paying two mortgages - and had to sell at a greatly reduced level.

[Tsiyu]

31. Resources can make a difference

in a large land holding. But in the case of housing, owning a home has a security value - you know, just in case the banks call their loans due.

[salin]

9. I won't "lose" anything

as I don't have debts and have nothing that can be foreclosed or repossessed... however that doesn't solve the eating problem - and in the north - gardening can't be done year round...

As to who benefits? The financiers - will take a hit (overall value dives to an extent) - but have enough to ride out the storm - and to take advantage of bargain basement prices on goods (and properties, etc.) Call it an opportunity for them - for more wealth consolidation/concentration - in the end, while they take a short time hit, they will end up with far more than anyone else.

[havocmom]

17. Pity the folks who have bought into the 'cash in your equity' ploy

They will be homeless and heartbroken first.

Hey, salin, wanna join my chapter of
'Soon to be gray-panther-loose-cannons with nothing to loose, North 40+ Division'? I promise, no meetings... ;)

[salin]

19. Count me in...

just barely qualify for that 40+, though...

I am the daughter of a depression era economist - and have always bought used cars that I could buy outright.... and didn't buy a home until I found a phenomenal deal (courtesy of the bush forclosure rate) that I could buy without debt. Have to say that I can not bring many people to the chapter - as most of my peers who also entered the workforce in the Reagan years followed the spend (with debt) as much as you earn monthly.... live large and owe - but have all the trappings now. :-( Still have some colleagues who think I am a bit odd taking a "buy what you can pay for" approach through life.

I don't mean to sound holier than thou to others - our society has been selling the live large pay later approach for more than twenty+ years. Meanwhile I kept living like a grad student both while I was in grad school (did without debt at the end) and when I was working. Sadly, even my siblings didn't get the same lesson from my Dad - though one family (with two MDs) has accumulated enough to be safe (though their aspirations to put numerous kids through college might be challenged were there to be a big crash in the economy) but the other.... who is about to pay off their mortgage... wants to get a small refinancing on the house... why? because she can't budget well and would spend the money, says she, if it wasn't going straight to pay off the mortgage (how foolish is that in these times?)

[Thtwudbeme]

10. I work for a Bush Loving small business owner

they employ about 25 people....

However, they bought their business, land and building, and are under EXTREME debt----Probably into debt to the tune of about 300,000 or so right now...so, they are putting extreme pressure on their employees to produce.

Unfortunately, there is something that is going to take them out financially: their business provides a luxury service, and we are in the mill area of NC.

It's going to be a crap shoot to see if they survive.

[shesemsmom]

13. none of us.....n/t

[greekspeak]

14. Folks with off-shore accounts to which they quietly transfer more money

You know, the money that they alledgedly invest in America when Shrub gives them tax cuts. People STILL beleive in Reaganomics...there was a LTTE this morning in the Tallahasee "Democrat" praising Reaganomics to the heavens. The rich do not invest money back into American jobs...they invest it into their own pockets. The only thing that trickles down is...well you know.

[SoCalDem]

16. Most of the people in my husband's company lost money in their 401-ks

but we were among FOUR people whose plans gained.. We have it weighted in OVERSEAS stuff.. I know NOTHING about stocks & bonds, but when *² got in the first time, I said..let's look outside the US..

The company just got a new plan (used to have oppenheimer)and we increased the overseas..

Here's hoping :)

[robbedvoter]

18. Billionaires CEOs. Everyone else loses. yeah you mediawhores too

and you grubby politicians too. Senators, reps, governors - if tou are not zillionaires in your own right - you lose.
I voted for my economical survival. So, obviously, I won't make it.

[SmokingJacket]

20. Just bought a used volvo station wagon.

If I have to move into it, I'll at least be able to stretch out.

[salin]

21. folks need to get rid of their debts

and then start saving - have nothing that can be lost, and nothing that needs to be bought... and hope for enough reserves to weather the storm. Live cheaply and simply if one has the 'luxury' to do so. I recognize that it takes a certain level of income to be able to do this - having lived most of my adult working life below that level.

[codegreen]

25. China.

[Festivito]

27. The lucky. nt.

[MsConduct]

28. The top 1%. n/t

[barb162]

29. the very rich, that's all. The fundie base won't get negative

about increased suffering...it's a sign the rapture is coming.

[dkofos]

30. Anyone with an offshore bank account!!!

[Jose Diablo]

32. No one will be in good shape

With economic collapse also comes civil unrest. The 'class' war that has only been simmering these last 70 years will become hot. We are always only an full stomach from revolution. Anger, fear and hatred will blossom full bloom.

The poor will starve and the rich will be murdered and burned within their communities. The police and military will not be able to contain it. There are good reasons for a society to maintain safety nets, stability is one.

The rich will then see, that Bush and themselves made it happen. There will be no FDR this time, to save the wealthy from the effects of their greed. There will be no FDR to shield the rich from the hatred from the poor. There will be no white knight to ride in to save them. They will have made their bed, and they will then sleep in it.

Socialism will emerge from the ashes and the survivors will carry on, but at a much reduced level of consumption and a much lower population. Which is probably what the earth needs anyway.

I doubt there will be any monuments remaining for this batch of so called 'leaders'. I doubt history will be kind to any of them.

This is how I see the future.