OUTRAGE! "Religious LEFT" (UCC) ad banned by networks!

[regnaD kciN]

The United Church of Christ has prepared a national television ad campaign, whose spots portray a church with a couple of skinhead-type bouncers blocking the front door to all but "acceptable" families, while turning away gay couples, minority group members, etc., followed by the message "Jesus didn't turn people away. Neither do we."

You can see the ad at http://www.stillspeaking.com/default.htm. To put it in religious terms, it kicketh ass. ;-)

However, while you can see it at that website, you won't be able to see it on NBC, CBS, or UPN. "Too controversial," the networks say. (http://www.ucc.org/news/u113004a.htm)

:wtf:

Most interesting is Viacom's (CBS and UPN) rationale for rejecting the ad:

"Because this commercial touches on the exclusion of gay couples and other minority groups by other individuals and organizations," reads an explanation from CBS, "and the fact the Executive Branch has recently proposed a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman, this spot is unacceptable for broadcast on the (CBS and UPN) networks."

Now, wait a minute...are they saying that ads which take a position on current politics are "unacceptable?" It's funny, then, because I definitely seem to recall a lot of TV ads taking political positions over, say, the last two or three months -- some of them even running on CBS and UPN. ;-)

Or are they saying that it's only political ads that criticize the position of the "Executive Branch" that won't be allowed? (Given the situation, it shouldn't even be necessary to mention that the ad doesn't refer to politics at all.)

Folks, this is one of the most outrageous things I have ever read. Those of us on the "religious left" need to be mobilizing right now on this one. For what they are saying, essentially, is that expressions of Christianity that mention how Jesus accepted everyone are not fit for the public airwaves.

(Ironically, Fox is going to be showing the ads.)

[BRLIB]

1. Petition for these networks to lose their FCC license

for failure to support the first amendment.

[TahitiNut]

23. I think it's only the stations that have FCC licenses.

I don't believe the network, per se, is licensed by the FCC. :shrug:

[KamaAina]

35. Many stations are owned and operated by the networks

an ever-increasing number, in fact, thanks to Michael Powell and his lackeys over at the Friendly Candy Comapny (FCC). Networks are now allowed to own stations that reach up to 35% of the total U.S. audience.

[KingChicken]

2. Fuck the networks

It's not their job to decide what material, aired on their network, conflicts with the policy of this administration. The network execuitives bend over for bush. (not bend over backwards, just bend over)

[GOPBasher]

3. This is what fascism feels like. Let's get used to it.

I can't figure out if I want to stay and fight or just get the fuck out of this theocratic, fascist country.

[The Straight Story]

4. Hmmmmm

On this ad - are they comparing turning gays away to turning blacks away (ala minorities and gays both being turned away by skin head bouncers)? I am just wondering how this will play in a broader sense (ie, minority churches sometimes turn away gays as well).

It is a good comparison if that is what is meant by it from an advertising persepctive (imho) but could also have a backlash - suppose for instance they ran the ad showing black bouncers not letting gays into a church (and why wouldn't they or shouldn't they?)

Overall though - they should air the ads and if nothing else will cause discussion to erupt on the whole thing (the only reason I critiqued the ad above is I fear that the discussion could end up centering on the ad makeup more than the ad idea, which could hurt the cause more than help it - but we won't know if they don't run it...)

[regnaD kciN]

6. Check it out yourself, then decide...

http://www.stillspeaking.com/default.htm

[LeftHander]

46. Both uuc.org and stillspeaking are overloaded...

or being attacked...

[Bridget Burke]

7. So maybe (racial) minority churches are not perfect, either?

Why not just let them run the ad?

[Tuddie]

74. Hey! Did you even SEE the ad? I think not.

Get a grip "Straight Story" - of yourself. WTF - why do you care if the ad for the UCC will "play in a broader sense"? Do you know anything about the UCC? I doubt it. Who gives a sh*t about an advertizing perspective and "backlash" The UCC is saying IT WILL WELCOME ANYONE AND EVERYONE - PERIOD. That is what it means to take a risk on behalf of INCLUSION. Let's get deontological about this: if it applies to one group, it must apply to all. Exclude one, excude all. I do not usually resort to cursing but, holy crap, this issue makes me ANGRY. The Regime is working faster than we anticipated and we cannot pick and choose who is "in" and who is "out" - for cryin' out loud!

[RUDUing2]

99. I think you are missing the point of the ad..

it is aimed at the mindset that god hates gays and that gays can't be preachers, priest, etc and that there should be a constitutional amendment against gays..and that ALL churches and ALL christians believe this. This ad is saying don't lump us (liberal Christians and liberal denominations) with the fundies who claim this and who are trying to (and apparently winning that battle at least in the minds of most Americans)make it appear that they are the only type of Christians...

[daleo]

5. Too bad it used "skin head type" bouncers

Not all people who look that way or racists or anti-gay. It would have been more effective if an all-American suburbanite family was turning people away, anyway.

I know it is kind of a moot point since the ads were turned down by the SCLM.

[regnaD kciN]

11. When I said "skinhead"...

...I basically meant big, tough, thuggish types of the sort often seen as bouncers. There was no indication that they were neo-Nazis, white supremecists, or anything like that.

I should also clarify that the ad doesn't indicate that the minority-group people being turned away are being rejected because of their race. Generally, they are younger, casually-dressed, possibly poorer -- not the comfortable, affluent white suburban nuclear family dressed up in their "Sunday best" that the ad shows being admitted to the church while the others are being turned away.

[keith the dem]

12. These bouncers are only meant

to symbolize the type found outside "exclusive" clubs. Realize that those clubs probably wouldn't allow those bouncer types in if they were not working for them.

[Laughing Mirror]

26. Yes, that's what I saw too. A church with a door policy like Studio 54

That's exactly what they are in this church ad: bouncers. If you watch the spot closely you see they even continued the club motif down to the velvet cord that the bouncer opens to let the people in they want in, only to hook closed to the people they want out.

[jallgood]

92. It is not the ad that is at issue.........

it is the censorship of the networks. As a UCC member, I am angry with the decision of CBS and NBC to not run the ad and I'm dismayed at the critiquing of the ad going on here versus staying focused on the censorship.

[berni_mccoy]

8. Seems like there are very reasonable grounds...

for a lawsuit against discrimination by the Networks. The Networks certainly shouldn't be afraid of this ad as they have much more controversial programming. Furthermore, they certainly air ads by plenty of other religious organizations.

[cmd]

9. Santa was sitting in a pew in our local UCC ad

About 15 years ago our local church ran an ad with Santa sitting in the front pew. The message was that everyone was welcome in our church. The fundies around here were shocked that we would have a heathen symbol in a church ad.

[Rose Siding]

10. That's a beautiful ad

I'm glad I got to see it. I'm going to find their local church and attend Christmas services there this year.

[RaRa]

66. Be sure to check what kind of UCC

You will likely want to attend one that is "open and affirming". Not all UCC are. My parents checked one out and were appalled at the pastor's sermon which read like a Bush propaganda speech. I doubt they perform same sex marriages like mine does.

[damntexdem]

13. Will air on Fox, but not on NBC or CBS?

So, tolerance and love are too controversial for American airwaves, but intolerance and hate are not.

I just can't figure out why people are down on the media.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

16. Fox (Murdoch) is a moneywhore so he will air it just to get....

the $$$$$$!

[noiretextatique]

79. it needs to be seen on faux the most

O8) god works in mysterious ways O8)

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

14. What about networks that show the 700 Club?

Isn't that the same thing?

[noonwitch]

19. Those stations always precede the broadcast with a statement

"The views of this program do not necessarily reflect the views of the station" kind of thing.

[ooglymoogly]

21. haven't y'all heard the media is censored

the evangelicals control the press. anything derogatory against the Christian right will be censored. period the new policy of the press is to promote discrimination.

[K to the YLE]

15. I saw this add this morning...

but I can't remember what station it was on, Comedy Central maybe? It would seem possible as I was watching the repeat of last nights Daily Show...it is a very effective ad and appalling that the networks won't be showing it. It seems like everywhere you turn you have to overcome extreme right-wing authority now...scary...

[Rose Siding]

17. I found a local UCC site and they say it has aired

Looks like word about the network decision hasn't come down yet.

snip>
"God is Still Speaking Initiative" – The United Church of Christ "Never place a period where God has placed a comma." –Gracie Allen

This month keep your eyes open on national TV for the 30 second commercial about the United Church of Christ. It will be during non-prime time hours, I expect that means 4-6pm. The commercial has already been shown in a trial area on the East Coast and the UCC churches there received a noticeable increase in visitors. We are being asked to be alert to a possible increase in visitors during the season of Advent due to the commercial. During the month of December we will be using a new registration sheet on Sunday mornings to be able to track how visitors learn about us.

May we continue to be a warm and welcoming congregation to some potential new friends!

http://www.rbccucc.org/

[xpunkisneatx]

58. Thats why I saw it already!

"The commercial has already been shown in a trial area on the East Coast and the UCC churches there received a noticeable increase in visitors."

That must be what they showed here. I knew I had seen it already. I don't see any problem with it. If the Mormons can shove their cult shit down my throat in those "ask your Mormon neighbor for the Jesus video" commercials, then the UCC should be able to advertise that they accept everyone at their church.

[janx]

63. This was the church I attended as a child/young adult.

http://www.uccwebsites.net/firstcongregationalwebstergroves.html


I haven't been a church goer in years, but I think it's time I joined the Cong. church where I live now.

I cannot tell you how this situation sickens me.

[Voltaire99]

18. "Ironically, Fox is going to be showing the ads"--LOL!

Yes, it's a delicious irony, in part because it exposes the fraud of believing that FOX is worse in all respects than, say, CBS, NBC, or UPN. In some respects it is worse; but not in this one. These corporations have no allegiance to anything but the dollar--the ad is being rejected because the others fear loss of business in their demographic.

FOX's decision is intriguing. I would guess the Murdoch boys feel triumphant, and supremely confident, about their demographic: they know their rubes. What the FOX droolers need above all else is grist for their rage mills. So FOX runs the ad, confident that it will generate anger as a new input for its on-air "talent" to harness, shape, mold, stoke. Other networks are impotent in the face of such anger, but FOX is its svengali.

One more thing: religion is poison in politics. Do not look to lovey-dovey churches that admit gays and lesbians to save you from right wing extremism. We need LESS religion, not MORE, in our civic lives. The other way lies theocracy.

[MsMagnificent]

88. I don't think the UCC are going the political way

Nothing I've read on their site seems to point to any political side unless you automatically assume since they actually DON'T hate any special group, they must be "Liberal" or "Democratic"
--and that is the fault of religious Right churches & groups for being exclusive, judgmental & hypocritical; not UCC's.

It's unfortunate that you (and many others too) have the knee-jerk reaction that, in this day and age, if you believe in Jesus Christ and are American you automatically think our belief has to be politcal. There are still a ton of us who believe in Jesus Christ and who believe in the separation of Church and State, all at the same time!

I'm tired of American KKKristian "Churches" giving Jesus Christ a bad name.

And if I'm weary of it... well, if I were them, I'd hate to be in their place come Judgment Day.
Even if Jesus Christ merely asked them to reconcile their militant, bellicosal actions and their Hate with what He actually taught. Nope, wouldn't want to be there.

[keith the dem]

96. Well Said

My urban UCC church is full of well educated thinking people who have strong faith ....and believe in science, freedom of thought, and separation of church and state.

You do not have to leave your brain at the door when you enter church!

[flamingfly]

20. United Church Ad

True belief in Christ cannot be right or left, just truthful. I do know that Christ loves everyone, and is for the poor and humble. The disciples of the first Christian church had all things in 'common'. The concept that Christ never rejects anyone means that he accepts everyone who comes to him, gay, straight, murderer (St. Paul), prostitute (Mary Magdalene), gentile (non Jewish )etc.

He accepts us all to come and receive him as Saviour and takes away our sins, because no sin can enter Heaven, and gives us eternal life. We receive his spirit and become new creations turning away from sin and walking with him. Paul repented. Mary Magdalene repented.

How would you feel if they played this ad, but added the people coming back out of the church after the service no longer involved in a gay relationship, or anything considered sin but rejoicing? This would really be fair and the complete concept of his acceptance as understood by Bible scholars.

It's not that people change their outfits and become middle class white people, but the change is the spirit of Christ that comes into their heart making them want to follow Christ. This is something we all have to remember, because Heaven is a place of the spirit and that's the part of us that goes to Heaven.

[Rose Siding]

25. Don't you be spreading that garbage

"How would you feel if they played this ad, but added the people coming back out of the church after the service no longer involved in a gay relationship, or anything considered sin but rejoicing? This would really be fair and the complete concept of his acceptance as understood by Bible scholars.

You don't get to judge the heart of others. Puffed up "Bible scholars" DON'T get to judge. That is how the right has fouled an entire faith.

[keith the dem]

51. The UCC denomination is open and affirming

of gays and lesbians; however as the church inherited the policies of the Congregational churches, each individual church votes wether or not to be "open and affirming". I am proud to say tht my church approved this policy by about 98%. We believe, in accodance with Jesus teachings, that those people who hate need the healing.

[Lizzie Borden]

56. Yup. My father was a UCC minister

and one of the most enlightened men I ever knew. As a child, all I was ever taught was the kindness of Christ, and while I'm not a Christian today, my church background insures that I'm going to have a liberal view.

[Calvinist Basset]

61. My denomination is still embroiled in debates about gays.

I think, when all is said and done, the progressive side will win (i.e., ordaining them, performing union or marriage services, etc.). In the meantime, it's quite a frustrating battle here in the Presbyterian Church (USA). But what I perceive is that we are merely battling on a denominational level what is already going on in the larger culture.

Those who oppose inclusivity tend to speak of gay relationships and such as sinful, requiring those involved to repent. However, they really fail to take notice of the fact that sexual ethics of the ancient world differ significantly from what we understand today. After all, women were regarded as property--or at least 2nd class humans--and procreative sex was crucial for yielding many, many children in the hopes that some of them might live to adulthood. Not to mention, much of the language in the Bible that people now use to condemn homosexuality has been incorrectly translated, or translated with certain biases of meaning. I wish I had more time (and space) to explain in detail.

Suffice it to say that this is how I see it. Jesus did not imply God to be male by using the word "Father" (actually, "daddy"). He was trying to drive home the concept that we are able to have an intimate relationship with God. In the same manner, we should not look at the Bible as though it were telling us "whom" we should love, but "how" we should develop genuine, meaningful and good relationships with those we love.

I'm taking a long path in order to make this final point: whenever people say that Jesus' disciples were "repentant" and that we should expect the same of all sinners, I have several replies.

1. Jesus' disciples included people from all parts of society. For example, here was Simon the Zealot--who would have been part of a group that believed in overthrowing the Roman government by any means necessary; and there was the Roman collaborator, Matthew the tax collector. And if you read through the gospels, you discover that the disciples didn't always demonstrate repentance.

2. Repentance is a process, not necessarily a sudden change of heart.

3. We need to be careful when condemning something as a "sin." We have to first ask and evaluate, is it really something that dishonors God and/or others? Or does it just run counter to something we believe or prefer? There's a significant difference here!

[Old and In the Way]

28. "I do know that Christ loves everyone"

Apparently not the Iraqis.....

If there is a righteous God, the religious hypocrites will have the warmest place reserved for them in Hell.

[RetroLounge]

30. "I do know that Christ loves everyone"

bullshit. You don't "know" anything of the sort.

RL

[Old and In the Way]

32. Sure, no problem.

"How would you feel if they played this ad, but added the people coming back out of the church after the service no longer involved in a gay relationship, or anything considered sin but rejoicing?"

The Religious Right lies about everything else, why would that lie bother me? I'm for letting all points of view be expressed and letting the consumer decide the truth. Problem is, the Right has no interest in letting opposing viewpoints be broadcast. They want a Religious dictatorship. They want to have the exclusive selling rights to the God Franchise on Earth, truth be damned.

[Tuddie]

78. Thank goodness I'm not God - My God is bigger than yours

Okay, flaming fly. Its nice that you are a newbie and all. I'm not so "old" myself. But thank goodness the divine is so much bigger and broader and mysterious than you could EVER imagine. Your "take" is not by any means mainstream Xn.

[lgardengate]

84. Oh My!

This is EXACTALY what my familys church teaches...No difference at all. I could not have explained it in detail that well. I used to go but have not been in a while.I must admit the people there have been very good to me.I have health problems and they constantly contact me and let me know they are praying.I can't bring myself to be at all critical because they are so kind.

[MsMagnificent]

89. Excuse me?

How would you feel if they played this ad, but added the people coming back out of the church after the service no longer involved in a gay relationship, or anything considered sin but rejoicing? This would really be fair and the complete concept of his acceptance as understood by Bible scholars.

It is beyond me how you can put conditions down for 'the right outcome -- being no longer gay' The point seems to be lost upon you -- Jesus welcomes us ALL, Jesus loves US ALL unconditionally.

And the personal relationship between a gay person and Christ, and a straight person and Christ is not something that any one of us on earth --not even the Pope, not even Jerry Falwell-- can dare to assume the knowledge of.

Again, Jesus does in fact love us all. Each and every one.
Edit:(Yes, I DO know that Retro. It is part of my Truth and knowledge of Christ. That's what faith is: intangible yet sure. Of course your belief is your own. I can't demonstrate as concrete fact my knowledge of Jesus' unconditional love -- neither can you disprove it.)

Even, individually, the Gay, Lesbian, & Transgendered.
Even the Religious Right.
Even you.
Even me (and boy oh boy poor Jesus has His work cut out for Him there on that last one)

[Khaotic]

22. UCC also supports low-power radio

UCC also supports low-power radio.

Recently that financed a tv special that ran on a lot of networks. Most aired it in the morning on a Sunday, but many aired it.

Low-power radio and movements such as the Promethus Project are gaining momentum.

Since company's like Clear Channel own so much of the media, low-power radio is proving an outlet to get the message out.

I didn't know much about the UCC, but they must be open minded or they wouldn't be trying to open people's minds w/ the truth.

Sojourners and The Interfaith Alliance should be ALL over this.

Both of those organizations had one hell of a campaign during the election to try to convince people that no one party is smiled upon exclusively by God.

Seems like Sojourners, The Interfaith Alliance, and UCC should combine their efforts.

Spread the word and stop the NeoCons from trying to legislate it.

[regnaD kciN]

31. I just posted the story on the Sojourners e-mail list...

We'll see if I get any reactions.

[noonwitch]

24. Viacom is afraid of getting hate mail

That's my guess as to why they have refused to air this. Think about all the crap they've been getting, about Dan Rather, about any editorial that attacks Bush, etc.

This is a hard-hitting, but simple message ad. It implies that if a church turns people away, they are not doing what Jesus intended, a position I agree with. This simple statement challenges biases that more conservative christians use the Bible to justify. When peoples' biases are challenged, they respond in two ways:

1. They use the experience to grow and change, or

2. They get pissed off at the messenger, because they feel guilty deep down on an unconscious level. The "righteous anger" is a mask for deeper feelings of fear, not of those who are different, but fear that gays aren't all that different from them after all.

I grew up attending UCC services, my mom and sister are members of the UCC and my brother is a pastor in it, and I am proud that they have the guts to run this ad, even if I am a member in a different denomination (equally accepting of people) at this time.

[DireStrike]

39. So WE have to send them hate mail!

Maybe if they're between a rock and a hard place, they'll have to actually THINK about what they air, instead of simply reacting!

[jallgood]

94. Not hate mail........

but mail that states our objection to their decision to not air the ads. Hate mail would be stooping to the level of the bigots.

[flamingfly]

27. Understanding Christ's acceptance

True belief in Christ cannot be right or left, just truthful. I do know that Christ loves everyone, and is for the poor and humble. The disciples of the first Christian church had all things in 'common'. The concept that Christ never rejects anyone means that he accepts everyone who comes to him, gay, straight, murderer (St. Paul), prostitute (Mary Magdalene), gentile (non Jewish )etc.
He accepts us all to come and receive him as Saviour and takes away our sins, because no sin can enter Heaven, and gives us eternal life. We receive his spirit and become new creations turning away from sin and walking with him. Paul repented. Mary Magdalene repented.
How would you feel if they played this ad, but added the people coming back out of the church after the service no longer involved in a gay relationship, or anything considered sin but rejoicing? This would really be fair and the complete concept of his acceptance as understood by Bible scholars.
It's not that people change their outfits and become middle class white people, but the change is the spirit of Christ that comes into their heart making them want to follow Christ. This is something we all have to remember, because Heaven is a place of the spirit and that's the part of us that goes to Heaven.

[Rose Siding]

29. My error! Not just garbage; Spammed garbage

It's fun for you to write "gays and murderers" on the same line, isn't it? Your message stinks of bigotry and hate, not Christianity.

And here's something we really do "all have to remember". Housing cuts for the elderly and infirm are written into the new budget. Call your congress reps and rage against their assault of this most sacred charge!

[flamingfly]

44. Lets open up that liberal left mind

You forgot that I also included 'gentiles' in the same line with murderers and prostitutes. That would mean everyone who isn't Jewish, including me, a former sinner. You choose to take 2 things an associate them, not the whole sentence. You are focused on looking for bigotry, and retaliating, and it looks like if it isn't there it's manufactured. 'Hatred' closes doors for discussion and learning. If you already decided you know how everything is and are not open even a pinch to look at someone explaining how other people think, then all that can happen is cheering on everyone who thinks exactly like you, and hating and 'name calling' anyone who has a slightly different idea or approach. That's what has divided America. This is 'bigotry' when you are letting on that you are a left-wing liberal.

[MsMagnificent]

93. No such thing as a "Former sinner"

What a give-away!
(Sorry, couldn't resist a little Pythonism ;)

We all sin, it's part of our human nature. If we're human, and alive; we sin.
Even the most high-minded and honest above us will still, in some way, continually sin... if not in deed than at least in thought.

Definition of sin (here) = breaking one or more of the 10 Commandments;
or breaking either or both of the two Jesus gave us.

If a human no longer sins, they're Christ.
Not Christ-like,
Christ.

Only one in the history of the world was human and did not sin;
and He surely isn't any of us.

[Bridget Burke]

37. We have some very fine Christians on this board.

Your mindless tripe is meant to insult them. And it also insults any person of intelligence.

[VegasWolf]

38. Wow, a real life religious nutwing right here! I'm surprised he is

not downtown screeching at the passerbys to avoid
eternal damnation! His blind belief in invisible men
in the sky is touching, or, rather I should say that he
is touched, in the little gray brain cells.

[Rose Siding]

45. The theology is messed up- that's true

But would it be possible for you to insult the right without insulting the faith of others?

[VegasWolf]

50. Rose, no offense to you, I admire your posts, but where exactly

did I insult anybody other than this nutcake?

[Rose Siding]

52. You know what?

I think I over-read something. You said his "blind" faith in yadayada. I should have paid more attention to that word in the sentence. I see, now, how that excludes other believers. Sorry

[flamingfly]

53. I thought this was a discussion forum not a "HATE-IN"

I thought this was a discussion forum, but it seems more like a
"HATE-IN" as opposed to a '"LOVE-IN" Maybe the invitation should say, "If you agree with everything we say, and see everything exactly as we see it, and hate everyone and everything we hate, then you can join in, if not we will hate you and call you names and despise you". You seem so wanting to make sure everyone is accepted, but the minute anyone has a slightly different view you ravage them. I think I'll keep discussing things with the little children I know. They have not been blinded by the
"Spirit of Hatred". "Out of the mouths of babes thou has perfected wisdom"

[Old and In the Way]

57. Please don't confuse hate with skepticism.

I understand why you'll have an easier time convincing young children of your simplistic message. I suggest posting over at FreeRepublic. You'll find plenty of child-like minds in need of salvation there.

[Tuddie]

80. Honey, you're the only one who is hating on this here blog. n/t

[noiretextatique]

82. you are free from sin, aren't you?

at least you proclaimed this in your original post. yet...you judge homosexuality (and other things) as sin, correct? you did so in your analogy. isn't judgement a sin too? perhaps i'm reading you wrong...maybe you were just using that as an example.
if i am correct, that would make you a hypocrite, or are you exempt from hypocrisy and free to sin...if you have been redeemed?

[DireStrike]

41. How could they leave the church when they're not allowed in?

Most of the organized religion in the world preaches hate, not acceptance.

It's great that you're different, but you're seeing this incident completely wrong.

[Perky]

75. Generally agree

Any Church has the right to hold it members to its own sense of morality. If it did not do at leat that it would lose its relevance as an institution.

My problem with the fundies is that they tend to point the fingger at sin in the world but not at sin and they never call its unofficial national leadership to a highter standard of preaching Christ cricified and resurrected,

My problem with the UCC is that they tend to go to the other extreme. very lax on moral standards as an alternative to the SBC seems tragically flawed as well... Yes they should accept all types but membership should not be taken lightly and tolerance of sin solely to pull epople in without bringthem to a true salvation experience and cleansing is terrible as well

[Quill Pen]

77. I'll tell you how I would feel...

...I'd want to see that church burned to cinders.

>>>How would you feel if they played this ad, but added the people coming back out of the church after the service no longer involved in a gay relationship, or anything considered sin but rejoicing? This would really be fair and the complete concept of his acceptance as understood by Bible scholars.<<<

A church is a place and a community in which one can build a relationship with God, not an arbiter of naturally-occurring mating habits. It is not the place of church leaders, "Bible scholars" or anyone else to force churchgoers into lifestyles that are more pleasing to other churchgoers.

My opinion has always been that I seriously doubt anyone would actively and willingly choose a sexual preference that would instantly make them a reviled scourge of half the population. There's also plenty of scientific evidence to support homosexuality as nature rather than nurture.

If I turn out to be wrong, and homosexuality is indeed an evil that is chosen by people, I prefer to let God do the judging. Personally, I've got enough on my plate without trying to do God's job.

[noiretextatique]

81. but...it's the middle class, white-washed, straight version of christ

thank you, but no. here's a clue: beliving you are free from sin, yet still claiming others aren't means you haven't *really* embraced the christ consciousness. if you truly followed the teachings of christ, you would embrace what you wrote:

"The concept that Christ never rejects anyone means that he accepts everyone who comes to him, gay, straight, murderer (St. Paul), prostitute (Mary Magdalene), gentile (non Jewish )etc."

PERIOD. the rest of the myth only creates division and arrogant hierarchy, like the false belief that you have the right to judge other people as sinners, while proclaiming that you a free from sin.

what's more arrogant (and annoying) than "love the sinner, but hate the sin?" sin is overrated anyway, but being without sin...even more so.

[Tuddie]

86. Is there a difference between "true belief" and "belief"?

I can't help myself. People like flamingfly give religious people in general a bad reputation and make it even worse for Christians in particular. Tell me, Christian, honestly, what exactly is the difference between "true belief" and "belief"? Really - define it. Do a good job now - I'm waiting.

[RUDUing2]

100. so you consider being a gay a sin? So does that also mean

you think God made a mistake? Afterall Gays are as God made them to be..and according to the Bible it is a sin to go against your nature..are you thereby telling gays that they should live in sin by pretending to be heterosexual and going against their nature?

This mindset in people who call themselves christian always stuns me...

[Freddie Stubbs]

33. Why is it surprising that Fox is showing the ads?

Have you ever watched Fox? They are completely different than FoxNews, and do not shy away from controversy.

[RaRa]

34. Wow, dissapointing

I'm a member of the UCC and we've been talking about this in the church for some time. Unbelievable.

[Moderator]

36. Link to the news story?

I will leave this since there is so many responses, however in the future remember to make the subject line match the headline of the news story and provide a news link.

Thank You

[regnaD kciN]

40. Here's a link...

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/state/10312776.htm?1c

[Rose Siding]

42. Here's a link to an AP story

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2634888

I'm not familiar with Ohio News Network, but it bears the AP copyright:

Copyright 2004 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Ramsey]

43. TPM following this story

Josh Marshall has calls into these networks for explanation and has a good discussion of the seemingly ludicrous policy that prompted the rejection of the ads.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[xpunkisneatx]

47. I saw this ad on TV last year!

This ad was run for a long time last year. I saw it quite often. I don't know why they are having issues with it now when they have been showing it all along!

[Liberal Christian]

95. It was run last year in a few test markets

The national release has been planned all along for Advent 2004 .. right now.

[bamacrat]

48. That's odd

because i was in my mass communications class on monday and my teacher told us that the media is left wing biased. i argued but...
then again i do attend The University of Alabama.

[Starlight]

60. "What Liberal Media? The Truth About Bias and the News"

by Eric Alterman. Get it for your misinformed teacher.

[donkeyotay]

49. They said let the free market run everything until they owned free speech

And then they believe in censorship again!

You know what they don't want America to discuss? The fact that fundamentalists such as those in the Church of Christ don't all support the right's insane policies... like killing people in Iraq for no good reason. If you thought that, you might not buy Rove's story about the religious mandate bush received.

[almostallhere]

54. i don't think you can really characterize them as fundamentalists

[StlMo]

69. We are not fundamentalists.

nt

[bobbieinok]

83. 2 different denominations....Church of Christ and United Church of Christ

Church of Christ (Campbellite=??).... very conservative

United Church of Christ......liberal

[Ladyhawk]

55. So, cults like the Mormons can advertise, but these guys can't?

Weirdosity.

[Lizzie Borden]

59. If you go to the 'unofficialKerry Blog'...

it says that the ads were rejected because they advocated "religious inclusion". My god! That certainly is a dangerous and wicked notion. Religious inclusion. I'll have to watch out for that.

[Protagoras]

64. Inclusion is very threatening to a lot of

people. After all, if you have to accept people it's hard as hell to hate them. And we have about 50% of this country right now that has as it's main motivation Hate, Fear, and Ignorance.

I'm not a member of any religion, and I tend to shy away from a lot of their promotions, but I found this ad very moving. I found it's rejection terrifying.

[Tuddie]

85. CBS & NBC defining the limits of "religious inclusion" - how odd.

I find that interesting ... Since when does CBS, NBC, etc become the definers of doctrine - let alone the arbiters of a specific religious doctrine, for example, the UCC's. If the UCC has approved it's own message, why would any entity have the authority to critique it based on an alien set of standards? Strange, indeed.

[silverlib]

62. Actforchange.com

has an online peteition conderning this:

Here's the email I got after signing it earlier this morning

Dear friend,

I just signed a petition asking CBS and NBC to reverse their decision to decline to run an anti-bigotry ad from the United Church of Christ, and I hope you will sign it, too. The outrageous message that warrants censorship? The denomination wants viewers to know that everyone is welcome at their churches. The UCC ad apparently ran afoul of the CBS policy by promoting the fact that its churches welcome gay and lesbian members as well as members of other minority groups, youth and seniors.

It only took me a few seconds to sign the petition and I'm hoping you'll sign it, too. Click here to sign the petition:
http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/petition.cfm?itemid=18182

There is a link to the actual ad within the petition, so you can go ahead and view it and judge for yourself.

Thank you.

P.S. Please forward this message to anyone that you know who might be interested

[Rose Siding]

65. The AP says "The final scene shows two women embracing."

I see one woman with her arm over another's shoulder. That's an "embrace"?

They also tell us twice that the UCC is "liberal" and there's this warning of risk: But there can be a backlash, according to Garbarino, who said people expect ads on cars and candy, not necessarily churches.

That assistant professor of marketing doesn't offer data on the success of the Southern Baptist ads (which they've run every 5 years since 1985)or the Mormon ads or the Catholic ads.

She may have never seen them; she isn't current on the TV line-up. She also says that "Because of the UCC's liberal reputation, its money might be best spent on ads during "Dharma & Greg," which portrays less traditional relationships, than a reality-show audience that might not be open to the UCC message"

Tolerance isn't a good fit for the reality show audience? REALITY isn't a good fit for them! What a wacky, zany world.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-church-advertising,0,1206648.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[noel711]

67. Sign the petition over at...

UCC.org.

YOu can vary the wording of the petition to specify your grounds...
The petition starts: "As a member of the UCC..." delete that, or add whatever faith you claim. I changed it to fit my circumstance.
Heck, we all need to stand together against fascism wherever it rears it ugly head.

[StlMo]

68. Take Action at UCCtakeaction.org

As I have always said, the members of the UCC are true Christians and good people.


Tell Networks to Run UCC Ad


The CBS and NBC television networks are refusing to run the UCC's 30-second television ad because its all-inclusive welcome has been deemed "too controversial." Contact the national offices of NBC and CBS and express your disappointment at their decision not to run the ad.

...

http://www.ucctakeaction.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=23254

UCC Action Center:

http://www.ucctakeaction.org/action

[noclonyofthechimp]

70. Link to petition from PFAW with a petition to sign against CBS and NBC

Tell CBS and NBC That Inclusion
Is Not "Too Controversial!"
Networks refuse to run television ad in which the United Church of Christ proclaims its openness to all people. See the ad in question.
Sign the petition urging CBS and NBC to air United Church of Christ ads that offer a welcome to people excluded by the Religious Right.
Click here to sign

The decisions by CBS and NBC not to air a message that the Religious Right and the Bush Administration might find too inclusive should scare every American who values freedom of speech, plurality and discourse. (CBS actually cites the Executive Branch's effort to ban marriage of same-sex couples as the basis for their action.1 )

This is outrageous. Speak up.

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/autogen.aspx?oid=16842&action=1477

If CBS and NBC are allowed to deny a mainstream religious denomination like the United Church of Christ access to our public airwaves because they fear backlash from the Bush administration and its allies, then every American's ability to speak out a month from now or a year from now will be all the more impaired.

This is dangerous. Speak up.
(snip)

[Kat45]

71. I belong to a UCC church and went to a workshop about the ads.

I don't think the thought of networks refusing the ad occurred to anyone. It is so absurd. If that isn't evidence of the right-wing control of major media, I don't know what is. What the heck is wrong with saying that everyone is welcome???!!!

My church, like many other individual congregations, is tying into the ad campaign. We have a large banner up in front of our church that reads: "Our faith is 2000 years old. Our thinking is not. God is still speaking."

I was raised Catholic and had stopped going to church over 20 years ago. I found this Congregational church in my town a few years ago, and I absolutely love it. I've met the nicest group of people there, and my minister's sermons often talk about social justice. And sadly, unlike these rich, mega-churches the fundies have, my church is small, poor, and each year we hope to be able to hang on (financially) for a few more years.

[Tuddie]

72. CBS: 212-975-4321; NBC: 212-664-4444

CALL THESE NUMBERS - REGISTER YOUR COMPLAINTS!!
This censorship is outrageous! These networks air racist and sexist advertizing and programming all the time and the UCC isn't "Christian enough" isn't "Moral enough"! Of all the nerve. What? They can advertize viagra, preparation H, depends, birth control; they can have tits and ass shaking all over the place on "reality shows" but Inclusivity is not Okay? Get a grip, folks. The regime is moving rapidly. We must be vigilant and stay the course.

[Kat45]

73. The story is going to be on the ABC news tonight

[SemperEadem]

76. Well, UCCers should boyott NBC, CBS and UPN

that's easy enough to do--once their ad revenues decline, then they will treat differently with this issue.

[MsMagnificent]

87. Damn you Liberal Media! *shaking fist*

/sarcasm


The hypocrisy is simply astounding. My heart is breaking for this country and the insane path it's gone down...

[Sugarbleus]

90. I heard of this late last night... then received a petition from

PFAW. I was "rocked" to learn CBS' stance on not airing the ad. It's rubbish!

It does look as though other channels will run it though. I really feel encouraged by this Church's stand. Didn't even know who they were all this time.

WTG UCC!!

[jzodda]

91. I hate whats happening to this country!

Its bad enought that we have to take their shit for the next 4 years but they want to silence us as well. Well FUCK THEM!

[trudyco]

97. can all of us christians who hold beliefs different

from the government's start a class action lawsuit against Viacom?

Make it something with a LOT of people in it.

Do you still think this is part of the whole diversion thing? Keep us liberals sidetracked from the Fraud issue so we won't rise up and get people's attention? Or do they want us to sue so it opens the floodgates for far right christian advertising? I don't trust any of these guys!

I know that the news doesn't even have to report accurately or fairly, but what if we claim they aren't reporting NEWS. Maybe sue all the MSM networks for false advertising?

There should be some way we can pry open the MSM.

trudyco

[keith the dem]

98. Far right KKKristians already advertise!!!

Paid Programming is advertising, just as an infomercial is advertising. At any time you can find a station with anti-gay or anti-Muslim lying hate speech disguised as Christianity. Many good people, especially our seniors, watch these shows. The lies about gays have nothing to do with sin but are designed to scare those seniors into parting with the savings they worked all their lives to earn.
If gays are shown as the responsible, and yes, the Christian people many gays are, the money base will dry up.

Many a right wing TV preacher went broke with the fall of the Soviets.
They had lost their Bugie-man.

These TV preachers are nothing more than the money-changers that Jesus did not welcome into the Temple.