Olbermann says Bev Harris won't go on Countdown

[Speed8098]

I just read this on his blog:

(Snip)Each and every day since our coverage of all this began on November 8, I have received a set of emails, some times a few, some times many, asking “Why don’t you have Bev Harris on Countdown?,” “Why don’t you run the Bev Harris videotapes?,” “Why don’t you show the voting tapes Bev Harris found discarded in the trash in Florida?”

Because she won’t let us.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

Bev, tell us what's up.

I love the work you are doing, but this kind of baffles me.

I'm sure there is more here than meets the eye.

Let us know Bev.

[Zhade]

1. Damn, that's sobering.

Yo, Bev? What's up with all this? Set us straight!

[mom-mad-about-bush]

47. This is Bev Harris reply to Keith Olberman.....

CONSUMER PROTECTION FOR ELECTIONS

Last updated: Thursday Dec. 2, 2004 -- Black Box Voting demands retraction from Keith Olberman. We have given him the option to correct his factually flawed editorial by having Bev Harris come the on his show (contrary to his assertions, neither he nor his staff have EVER asked Harris to show anyone the Volusia County tapes. (One Olberman's producers did ask Harris to appear on the Countdown show, twice, both times BEFORE Harris came to Florida or uncovered Volusia County irregulaties. In both cases, after Harris had cleared her schedule to appear, right before the show, Olberman's producers canceled the appearance without explanation. Harris has always agreed to go on Olberman's show, and Olberman is the one who canceled, not Harris. The Volusia County tapes were showed to CNN cameramen, but Harris has never been asked to show any Volusia County materials to Olberman, MSNBC producers, NBC producers, CNBC producers, or anyone else with that TV network or its affiliates. Also contrary to Olberman's claims, Harris is not making a documentary, but the makers of the Votergate documentary, an independent team who captured the Volusia County trash incident on film, are eager to interview Keith Olberman on camera to ask him why he produced this report.

[TomClash]

2. Maybe she doesn't want to be killed nt

[Zomby Woof]

5. Then she is a gutless fraud after all

But then, most of us know that. She only cares about voting fraud when:

1. It fills her bank account.

2. It goes up to the point of discomfort.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lerkfish]

16. whoa, dude, you are WAAAAY out of line.

beyond way out of line, altheway into freeperville.

[goclark]

59. WAAAAAAAAY out of line is right

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Snivi Yllom]

35. I smell the same thing you and Keith smell

steer clear of her, when she goes down she will take people with her

[The Backlash Cometh]

60. It was a small paragraph. How could you miss this:

The tape doesn't belong to Bev, it belongs to votergate. If Olberman wants to see the Volusia tape, he needs to contact them, not Bev.

"Also contrary to Olberman's claims, Harris is not making a documentary, but the makers of the Votergate documentary, an independent team who captured the Volusia County trash incident on film, are eager to interview Keith Olberman on camera to ask him why he produced this report."

Are people on DU really this unsophisticated?

[DRoseDARs]

3. Yet another thread about the deafening silence... one theory floating...

...is the people, like Bev, who are hard at work trying to ensure that this election was conducted in a fair way (almost certainly wasn't) are trying to avoid drawing too much attention to their efforts before they have a solid case to challenge it. Too much media attention might make it difficult to gather evidence and may encourage those involved in any "funny business" to go to ground and destroy such evidence that much quicker.

Or, it could just be that the world is fucked.

[Malva Zebrina]

4. Yesterday it was reported that a subpeona was handed to Teresa LePore

by Bev Harris. It was delivered, according the reports, because LePore, it was charged, ignored the FOI request filed by BH three weeks ago.

The way I understand it is that it was very dramatic-- ie,a person who knew the way through the back corridors in the hotel that led to the stage area, dressed up in a costume that made it appear they were part of the staff in the hotel where the meeting was taking place,(white tee shirt and black pants) *snuck* BH in the back door, and escorted her through backstage corrdors so she could get up on mic and personnally hand LePore the subpeona. That is a very dramatic tale and all of the embellishments to the story of the appearance of BH at this meeting, made for good reading, especially since LePore is such a controversial on the scene in Florida.

I think it was totally unnecessary, because information I read, said the subpeona that was served on LePore went first through the proper channels the way it should be and was handed to LePore's lawyer in person, before this surreptitious invasion of the meeting and BH taking over the mic and announcing via the sound system that she was handing LePore a subpeona. However,as I understand it, what was handed to LePore, with such great embellishment, was a *copy* of the subpeona that was given to her lawyer.

I think this type of apparent grandstanding, if the reports of the story are true, does absolutely nothing to help the cause. It looks more like a three ring, cheap mystery novel than a credible and sober attempt to gain something in Florida. I am more than a little skeptical of things like this.

[lonestarnot]

8. another take

Election officials were at the meeting she burst into and crashed LOL It put them ALL on notice with the same suit if they did not cooperate quickly and produce the information requested under the Freedom of Information Act. Meely mouthed people may be concerned with her tactic in this instance, but fuck the nicey nice shit...time is running out! Kills cooperation? What fucking cooperation! Did they produce under the original request! Hell NO! Kick it BEV! Go for their jugulars!

[Starlight]

9. "fuck the nicey nice shit"

Lonestarnot is right. When dealing with thugs & criminals, you can't afford to be "nice" & just hope that they agree to cooperate. That's not going to work.

[elehhhhna]

18. Lonestarnot hit the nail on the head!

[AmerDem]

19. I'm more concerned about

why she hasn't appeared on Olberman if as he has said his people asked many times for her to appear with her info such as the tapes. Olberman, more then anyone out there has lead this story and refused to let it go. It would seem to me that there isn't a better place for her to appear and speak openly.

I hope it doesn't come down to someone trying to grease their own wheel.

[Atman]

25. KILLS COOPERATION!?

There they go, talking and acting like old skool dems again!

When will we learn...this is NOT a game. THEY could give a fuck about cooperating. They are about suppressing and keeping the truth hidden. They have no intention of doing anything else but stonewalling.

STOP WORRYING ABOUT WHETHER THE OTHER KIDS AT THE LUNCH TABLE LIKE YOU!

[Guarionex]

28. Bev Hariss should at least TALK on TV

Whatever the legal or other reasons she can't show the videos...she should at least go and talk, like Wayne Madsen did on radio...at least then you are not accused of being an opportunist or tin foil hattist like Keith did to her.

She should at least speak publicly and state the reasons for not putting the tape...

otherwise...her reputation is in danger of going the way of Jeff Fisher.

[ozymandius]

6. Bev Harris has initiated a lawsuit. She cannot say anything publicly.

That would compromise her case. Neither the plaintiff nor defendant will speak on the issue before and during trial (if the suit comes to trial).

This talk of Ms. Harris being a fraud is not appropriate to the circumstances. Any public statement concerning her allegations of vote tampering can be used in litigation, perhaps against her by the defendant. Only her attorney should speak publicly.

[Trajan]

10. I adore Bev Harris ...

and the entire BBV crew ....

These kinds of gratuitous slams are unseemly, and offered by many of those who wouldnt lift a finger to TRULY investigate these matters ....

I am sure Bev has good reason to NOT have these tapes revealed at this time .... I am sure they WILL be revealed in due time ....

Casting insults without cause is hardly becoming of a liberal ...

[Malva Zebrina]

14. I am not slamming BH

I just presented facts, my opinion and said I was skeptical about grandstanding and I disagree with the posters who think this is the right way for any investigation to proceed on matters of such nationwide importance. You don't get points from any serious and sober persons for this sort of irresponsible and somwhat spurious display of theatrics. It only serves to hurt rather than promote the cause.

[leesa]

22. Have you not been paying attention? THEY don't play by the rules.

You will get NOTHING by following the rules and rolling over to have your tummy scratched by the GOP.

[ohio_liberal]

11. I'm confused...

She's been on AAR and other radio programs, no? :shrug:

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. YES! she has. MANY times and

so has Andy. Her not wanting to be on Olbermann has to be so she isn't drawing attention to their investigation. The repukes would be on her and Andy like white on rice.

[cybildisobedience]

12. seriously....

Is this the time to malign one of the ONLY people to take on this extremely important issue?
And why is anyone quibbling with Bev's tactics -- so WHAT if Theresa LaPore is embarrassed in public?
After all the discomfort she put this country through by helping to install Bush, shouldn't SHE experience some of it?

[Malva Zebrina]

15. the point of the vote investigation is not to embarrass anyone

and if there is joy in that,it can be attributed to some angry persons but not productive at all to the cause. I think it is the wrong way to go about establishing credibility. It is unnecessary to use vaudeville to try to humiliate or embarrass LePore in order to draw attention to Harris' cause. I think it poor judgement and I hesitate to throw full support behind it.

[Killarney]

13. there's a lot more on Olbermann's blog about this

than just that one paragraph. People should read the whole thing.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240

It really does beg the question of whether she's just doing this for her documentary/money and not for the cause. I don't know anymore.

[Walt Starr]

21. since Ms. Harris refuses to speak

I have to stick with Mr. Olberman on this issue.

It is at the least suspicious that Ms. Harris refusers to go on national television. If the charges being made by Ms. Harris have any validity whatsoever, the exposure is necessary.

Refusal to appear demonstrates a decided self interest on the part of Ms. Harris and lessens her credibility substantially.

[leesa]

23. I'm so disgusted with DUers turning against Bev after all her work

She has lawsuits going. What exactly can she say without negating the lawsuits. The jealousy on this board is ridiculous!

[Walt Starr]

26. She's appeared on marginal radio stations

Other folks with lawsuits out appear on television all the time.

I quesiton her motivations because she is not open to sharing information with the public on a national level. She marginalizes herself.

[nostamj]

27. uh, she's also appeared on Lou Dobbs and

CNBC with Howard Dean... and had a feature in Vanity Fair and...

well... you get the idea. 'marginal radio shows' right...

[Walt Starr]

31. Your post further supports my position

She has tapes, yet won't share them. She is marginalizing herself.

[nostamj]

32. Olberman states she 'can't' share the TAPES

there must be a reason.

[Walt Starr]

34. IMO, it's because there's no there there

If she had something damning, why the fuck not share it?

This isn't the first time Ms. Harris has made claims she couldn't back up. I remember back a couple of years ago her making claims she had damning evidence about the 2000 election and nothing ever materialized, but she sure sold some books.

Nope, all I see is greed.

[Snivi Yllom]

36. its really quite simple

Once she releases the video, it's not exclusive any more. So much for a money making documentary.

[Walt Starr]

37. BINGO!

Money means more to Bev Harris than anything to do with exposing fraud in the election, which means she really has no damning evidence only supposition.

If she could prove election fraud, she'd be all over the air waves pushing the evidence because that sort of publicity would guarantee her millions on the documentary. If she goes on with her evidence and it's quickly refuted, he documentary makes nothing.

[Snivi Yllom]

42. now she's threatening Olberman, one of them, Keith or Bev, is lying

Watch the credibility slowly circle the drain...

Last updated: Thursday Dec. 2, 2004 -- Black Box Voting demands retraction from Keith Olberman. We have given him the option to correct his factually flawed editorial by having Bev Harris come the on his show (contrary to his assertions, neither he nor his staff have EVER asked Harris to show anyone the Volusia County tapes. (One Olberman's producers did ask Harris to appear on the Countdown show, twice, both times BEFORE Harris came to Florida or uncovered Volusia County irregulaties. In both cases, after Harris had cleared her schedule to appear, right before the show, Olberman's producers canceled the appearance without explanation. Harris has always agreed to go on Olberman's show, and Olberman is the one who canceled, not Harris. The Volusia County tapes were showed to CNN cameramen, but Harris has never been asked to show any Volusia County materials to Olberman, MSNBC producers, NBC producers, CNBC producers, or anyone else with that TV network or its affiliates. Also contrary to Olberman's claims, Harris is not making a documentary, but the makers of the Votergate documentary, an independent team who captured the Volusia County trash incident on film, are eager to interview Keith Olberman on camera to ask him why he produced this report.

[Walt Starr]

51. Ahhhhh, and the Christofascists are in a heaven of liberal making

Just what we need, Harris attacking Olbermann.

:eyes:

IMO, Harris is about to lose the last shred of credibility she had.

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. Doesn't she need access to the Central Tabulators first before she can

prove fraud?

Just asking.

[canadianbeaver]

53. I agree........N/T

[PATRICK]

29. Olberman is still a lightweight

whatever his or anyone else's pretensions are. He HAS been honest enough to admit his eyes glaze over trying to dig into the charts and data. So WHAT are his journalistic talents and duties? These people move mountains to put legs on Kobe Briant and they resent Bev not cuddling into the one small corner of media graciously allotted to her with little work being done by the "journalistic" team?

She is busy making and breaking the story. The media is busy doing anything but. Doing one's job and not getting into a personal huff is another of many signs that Olberman is there, but not a competent champion of media exposure in hostile territory.

Why not interview the Kerry campaign and have them explain exactly why they blew off the issue constantly and thought HAVA was such a hot deal.

A journalistic already has this(without relying on one person or expert) shoddy suspect machines with alarming fraud capabilities and shady corporate backgrounds, odd election results favoring in almost every instance Mr. Bush. A swath of vote suppression, registration tampering and the whole GOP panoply for which NO ONE is identified or held to account, the subsequent rampage of extremists and a "nightmare" second term team installed. Do they need to be TOLD what to do and provided with all filled out dot books AND video?

In the past, unburdening oneself to that vacuous incompetency left one prey to all the rest of the media wise guys and the 99% spin against the one lousy blip on the radar.

If you want to join the party(not Bev to join the indifferent media circus) circus, start by doing the job all other media actively stifle(besides their yawns).

I have been on Democrats.com when they took some direct limelight heat and now here at DU. And the best response is to bear down and do a pro job. Win pundit friends and influence people? When has that worked lately?

[Walt Starr]

33. I disagree, Olbnerman is mainstream

which means he cannot go off half cocked and must have bhis ducks in a row.

He has repeatedly given Ms. Harris invitations to air her information.

Ms. Harris refuses repeatedly, even canceling on the first occasion.

I cannot see how Ms. Harris can be considered oh so wonderful in light of this information. She is making a mockery of her own movement and gives all appearances of a greed motivation rather than a truth motivation.

[PATRICK]

40. She is in the middle of research

It is up to the campaign to make a challenge. It is precisely the ducks in a row reason why she can't bear the burden of doing the whole vote reform/election challenge job that the media are ducking- and in the mainstream flow treating shallowly, if at all. Shallow they do well and that is what people get. Bev is pulling teeth to get the hard proof data she needs which unfortunately for the campaign does not add up to retrievable votes unless FRAUD is made the issue.

If Olberman is getting heat too he might try dipping more into the whole range of election issues. Trading accusations puts the onus of professional responsibility upon the journalist, not the citizen buried IN the story.

Frankly I do not trust Olberman more than Bev just because he is enthroned inside the box. And on that throne he feels pique at getting all this adverse attention and pressure!

[Walt Starr]

41. Sorry, but the history from Bev makes me trust Olberman more

I've scrutinized Ms. Harris's history on this issue and simply cannot put a lot of faith into her.

[Carolinian]

48. Then certainly she could provide an explanation and do so

in a calm and professional manner.

[Protagoras]

61. Well said.

I don't have much by way of concrete facts from either camp. So until we see a whole lot more specifics I have no reason to run screaming from or too either of them. Obermann and Harris could both have a variety of reasons for doing what they are. But until we see something REAL rather than just a few assumptions, I think it's best to suspend judgement (for either of them). People need to stop jumping onto the daily bandwagon and start actually letting the information accumulate before leaping to judgements.

[AmerDem]

17. geeze

What's going on here? Bev Harris hasn't thought twice about posting on DU over the many months and I hope she doesn't think twice in letting us know what exactly is going on here. :shrug:

[gorbal]

24. I think because she was canceled on once it was probabaly a big deal

Bev is Busy in Florida not, if you haven't noticed. Think of stoping everything to go appear on Obermann's show, then being canceled on. I might think twice about dealing with him again.

[Walt Starr]

30. REad the article, She canceled on THEM, they never canceled on her

:eyes:

[Beam Me Up]

49. Not according to Bev

I know nothing so don't shoot the messenger, but according to Bev http://www.blackboxvoting.org

Edited to add relevant text:

Last updated: Thursday Dec. 2, 2004 -- Black Box Voting requests retraction from Keith Olberman, along with an explanation of why MSNBC alleged such an untruth. We have given Olberman the opportunity to correct his http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/">factually flawed editorial by having Bev Harris appear on his show.

Contrary to Olberman's assertions, neither he nor his staff have EVER asked Harris to show anyone the Volusia County tapes. They have not asked Harris to come on the show since November 8. Harris did not come to Florida until November 12.

Olberman's producers had asked Harris to appear on the Countdown show, twice, both times BEFORE Harris came to Florida or uncovered Volusia County irregulaties. After Harris had cleared her schedule to appear, and right before the show, Olberman's producers canceled the appearance without explanation. Harris has always agreed to go on Olberman's show, and Olberman is the one who has always canceled, not Harris.

The Volusia County tapes were showed to CNN cameramen, but Harris has never been asked to show any Volusia County materials to any Olberman, MSNBC producers, or NBC producers. The NBC local affiliate in Palm Beach County asked for the LePore videotape, which we provided. It was aired on both Orlando and Palm Beach County NBC affiliates last night.

Also contrary to Olberman's claims, Harris is not making a documentary, but the makers of the Votergate documentary, an independent team who captured the Volusia County trash incident on film, are eager to interview Keith Olberman on camera to ask him why he produced this report.

/snip

[Carolinian]

50. No, SHE cancelled. KO said so.

[Apache4888]

38. Olberman

I wish some one would tell this pompous a$$ that maybe the first time hey threw his papers in the air it was mildly amusing.

But Kieth baby, ........'tain't funny anymore.

Why not just get over it? Mr. Bush won,fair and square(Even Michael Moor admitted it) And move on...............

[in_cog_ni_to]

52. Bush didn't win. The repukes committed FRAUD and Olbermann has been

the ONLY journalist to air the story. Why don't YOU get over it and go back to FR?

[Beam Me Up]

54. "Bush won, fair and square" HAHAHBWAAHAHAHAH

Oh man! You guys are pathetic. :eyes:

[Imajika]

39. Oh, I am sure what she has is as big..

...as the Pentagon Papers. No doubt she will be bringing down a President.

Bev Harris is probably in hiding because of all the "threats" she faces. You know, because she has the GOP shaking in their boots because of how she has exposed that Republicans are stealing elections...whoops...oh right, she hasn't shown that anywhere at all ever...yet...but I'm holding my breath waiting.

You know, when you have something this big, you bide your time. No way is she going to show her "evidence" of voter fraud to Keith Olberman in prime time on MSNBC. No, no, when you have something this big, maybe it is better to wait for an interview with one of the major network anchors. And while waiting for that, the obvious strategy is to go on minor radio outlets, which absolutely no one in the MSM take seriously, and talk about all the "evidence" of voter fraud she has...without actually showing any of it to anyone. Another key to this very clever strategy is to provide tantalizing updates on the progress of this voter fraud investigation to web based community, but again, not release any real "evidence" whatsover.

It couldn't be that the reason Bev Harris doesn't want to go on Keith Olbermans show, in prime time, is because she would have to put up or shut up on national TV...could it? Nah, couldn't possibly be that.

Imajika

[Occulus]

43. here's the latest update from Bev's site...

"Last updated: Thursday Dec. 2, 2004 -- Black Box Voting demands retraction from Keith Olberman. We have given him the option to correct his factually flawed editorial by having Bev Harris come the on his show (contrary to his assertions, neither he nor his staff have EVER asked Harris to show anyone the Volusia County tapes. (One Olberman's producers did ask Harris to appear on the Countdown show, twice, both times BEFORE Harris came to Florida or uncovered Volusia County irregulaties. In both cases, after Harris had cleared her schedule to appear, right before the show, Olberman's producers canceled the appearance without explanation. Harris has always agreed to go on Olberman's show, and Olberman is the one who canceled, not Harris. The Volusia County tapes were showed to CNN cameramen, but Harris has never been asked to show any Volusia County materials to Olberman, MSNBC producers, NBC producers, CNBC producers, or anyone else with that TV network or its affiliates. Also contrary to Olberman's claims, Harris is not making a documentary, but the makers of the Votergate documentary, an independent team who captured the Volusia County trash incident on film, are eager to interview Keith Olberman on camera to ask him why he produced this report."

[Cocoa]

58. we've heard the Pentagon Papers/ fear of assassination thing before

from Summer of '03:

That being said, I am putting anyone who is following this on notice: The files and the proof have been distributed to a network. That network has distributed them to their network. Those people have been invited to distribute to their network.

The milk is spilled, and if anything happens to any one investigating this, everyone at each level of the networks, and their networks, has been notified to consider that a trigger to blow the story open.

Lawyers have been engaged. We are now working with the level of attorneys who protect activists from the government, in high profile cases. We will henceforth be following the advice of counsel.

What was on that Diebold ftp site? I'm told that the identified files are the equivalent of the Pentagon Papers, perhaps worse.

Bev Harris
Black Box Voting

[Carolinian]

45. Olberman appears to be far more level-headed than Bev. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. This crap is unbelievable! DU, eating our own again.

When will we ever learn? :grr:

[Shopaholic]

56. Look, I don't know who is telling the truth here, KO or Bev but

just because someone points out some valid criticism of another DU'er it does NOT mean that we are eating our own. If we take everything at face value that everyone of "us" says, doesn't that make us exactly like the kool-aid drinking Republicans? I want honest discussion. I want legit questions to be asked from all angles. The questions and criticisms we have are nothing compared to what the Repugs will throw at us from all sides on any number of issues. Better we vet each other now and up front that have it done later by a Repug.

[Walt Starr]

57. All I am interested in is the truth

If there was no voter fraud in this election and that is the truth, then damn it, LET IT COME OUT!

This run around in the shadows crap has got to end! I lends no air of credibility at all to the claims being made.

[in_cog_ni_to]

62. Is it not true that the votes had to be certified BEFORE

she could have access to them or the voter rolls? If so, how could she do what she needs to do if the votes weren't certified? Also, as I posted above, she needs to have access to the Central Tabulators. THAT is where the fraud will be shown. THAT is where the evidence is. If she hasn't had access to the Central Tabulators, how can she have the proof? She can't do anything until the votes are certified. PLUS, the repukes have been stonewalling every step of the way. She's pulling teeth in Ohio and Florida. They are hardly being cooperative. Right?

Just asking. ;)

[SoCalDem]

63. locking.

removing all the attacks in this thread would render it fairly empty.

The "facts" are pretty much this.. Olbermann's the ONLY one who has even voiced an interest in the election "oddities"..

Bev HAS stepped up to the plate and brought this voting nightmare to the forefront.

What we have here is a self-defeating circular firing squad approach that serves us ALL poorly..

To viciously attack two people who are NOT really at odds with each other, solves nothing, and only distances us ALL from two people who are sticking their own necks out ..

I am not using the "moderator" moniker. Please don't holler censorship.. The issue here is civility and common sense.:)